Predicting Star Wars with only Trailer Aesthetics

"GhostZ" (GhostZ)
11/29/2014 at 07:31 • Filed to: None

(Warning: Long Article, 3500+ words Lotsa spoilers.) Allow me to provide the requisite automobile toll first for non-car related posts on Oppo, and get into it after the break to avoid spoilers. Also, anyone mind sharing this to other places where I don't have authorship, like the Observation Deck?

My thoughts:

What we have here is a J.J. Abrams medieval fantasy movie wearing star wars clothing . This isn't a bad thing. But his take on Toys, Childhood, and Innocence all differ strongly from George's story. As a medieval fantasy, it's going to be very different from what we've seen before.

Keeping with the metaphor, the original star wars movies were Space Operas completely naked except for George Lucas's hat. The Prequels were Shakespearean political dramas wearing George Lucas's entire wardrobe, including that original hat.

So lets break it down into 4 sections here so you can follow my scattered brain.

1. Major Themes: Feigned Innocence
2. Aesthetics and Toy Metaphors
3. Contrast and Mysticism
4. Plot Implications from the Aestetics

For good measure (literally and figuratively!) here's the new trailer, again, because we goddamn need to watch it over and over:

Without further ado...

Major Themes: Feigned Innocence

In that way, I see a sort of feigned innocence in these films, the sort of forced perspective on life. It is an "assumed" emotion that you are forced to take on watching it because of the style. He's done this before, in Star Trek it was overwhelmingly "These are GOOD guys they are BAD guys". In Mission Impossible it was "These Characters are Dirty and Struggling".

Whats important about this is that what might appear to be an attempt at nostalgia is actually an attempt at re-purposing . The important distinction is that this movie is not made exclusively for the fans . In fact, I think it's very much made not for the fans. He's repurposing images not for their nostalgic "Oh, I remember that" factor, but for their cultural "these are undying symbols made simple and consumable". This is most obvious with his treatment of the lightsaber, as I'll get into below.

Instead of presenting extreme complexity watered down into actions like most of Star Wars is, he's presenting brutal simplicity painted up into consumable product.

It's very Disney Channel, and that bothers me.

In Star Wars Ep. 7, I see "EVERYONE IS A CHILD'S TOY" screaming out. Everything has this toylike quality to it that is hyper-saturated like a Saturday morning breakfast cereal. We have a lot of toy metaphors, a lot of toy-like things, and a lot of straight-up toys. There's neoteny abound, and I believe that Jay Jay is trying to desperately to appeal to the youngest of audiences. For good, it means he's going to find ways to convey some complex and ancient ideas to children. For bad, it means he's going to make a great series reduced to Disney-Channel tweenage emotional simplicity.

Aesthetics and Toy metaphors

I'm going to shamelessly steal some images from the iO9 article here:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Look at that, and tell me he doesn't look like an action figure , more so than any stormtroopers in the films before him. Unlike the original stormtrooper armor, this armor is far more rounded, thin, and Plasticine. It looks like a cosplay outfit of a Stormtrooper. Moreover, it is in greater contrast to its environment than we've seen before, lighting-wise. This isn't a bad thing! You could say a lot about an aging broken empire and the out-of-place soldiers within it. Playing it off as cost-cutting movements by the empire is the best way to go with this.

Now, not only do we see the same thing happen again, but there is an obvious toy-cam lens effect on it . J. J. Abrams is literally shouting "BE CUTE" at the stormtroopers .

Also, what's the big thing that J. J.changed about the helmets? The side pods and mouth/visor shape. It no longer looks like a breathing apparatus. Why? Because George Lucas likes Cars and Airplanes, and wanted Stormtroopers to look like Nazi jet pilots. J. J. Abrams however, wants them to look like if Apple came out with a line of Army Men toys. They look like melted plastic because that's how toys are made. He wants them to look with puffy cheeks and sympathetic, "crying" eyes, again, following childhood toy themes.

This is a type of scene we would never get in the original trilogy because it humanizes the stormtroopers. What made them scary was the fact that they were always just on patrol . We didn't know where they came from, did they eat? Sleep? Nope, they were just omnipresent. Sure, they had bad aim and made jokes but no one cried when Luke shot one off of a platform into the abyss of the death star.

J. J. Abrams is saying that these aren't Nazis, they are Green Army Men toys being made to fight against their will by some malevolent kid. Toy metaphors everywhere!!!

Now this is actually just a toy. Is it a coincidence it looks like a soccer ball? No. Is it a coincidence that it looks surprised all the time? No. Is it a coincidence that the hard edges now have child-friendly bezels? No. The droid has the widened eyes and hyperactive stature that looks like a toddler once it has learned to walk , before it has learned any grace.

What makes this speeder look so different from the speeders of the past? The fact that it would be really easy to make a toy of . Ooooh, make sense? Luke's original speeder was one of the most popular toys of the original release (and subsequent lego sets, I think it was actually one of the first star wars lego sets out there, I owned it!) but the Endor speeders were complicated and dangerous, and their lego toys had like, 3 parts that were exclusive to them to pull the shape off. How do you make the original toy-friendly shape fresh? Turn it sideways.

J. J. isn't just recycling shapes for nostalgia's sake, he's doing it because he's cherrypicking the most childlike of all of the shapes. That's why, unlike most of George's stuff which was inspired by machines (particularly cars and airplanes) J. J. Abrams's aestetic is inspired primarily by Toys.

So here's an interesting question: When presented with the "Light Side" why do we see... the Falcon? Why not a Jedi?

Oh, it's so obvious. Because the Falcon is, also, a toy. It's the biggest toy of all. And we're looking toward its youthful integrity as a way to save our innocence, it's a symbol of childhood. Hell, it even looks more youthful in the images and the way it's flying (which makes no sense BTW, judging from its position). Jay Jay is creating the type of flight that a kid, with the Falcon and Tie Fighter toys, does over his bedsheet (pretending that its space or the ground) and going "Pschew Pschew!" with laser sounds.

Why wouldn't George really do something like this? Because to him, the Falcon is a hot rod , not a kid's toy. I'm probably going to go into more depth on this point with its own article, because the lack of aesthetic influence from automobiles is shocking!

So we get it, J. J. Toys, Childhood. So what does he present in contrast?

Contrast and Mysticism

This. This is probably the most important scene of the entire trailer . Why? Because it tells us 3 critical things, that show why the childhood theme is so obvious:

1. The lightsaber itself is a heavy, longer style than we've seen, with a CROSSGUARD. This is reminiscent of large two-handed swords of medieval period knights, or at least the image one things of. It's a heavy, fantasy weapon, one which is wielded because it has more import than the wielder itself. J. J. is trying to say " This is not the family heirloom of the original trilogy or the utility tool screwdriver of the prequels, it is Excalibur . " In the original films, George got the idea of glowing swords straight out of Arthurian tales, but treated the lightsaber as something that only a few, very privileged people had. It wasn't as useful as a blaster (much like an old watch) but it was rare and unique and a symbol to those who knew what it meant. In the prequels, they were treated as commonplace tools of appearances, like a military saber or a good hunting knife. This is obvious in the first scene that a lightsaber is really used in the prequels, when Qui Gon doesn't just chop people up with it... he also burns a hole through a door! This is the type of thing that would make the lightsaber look utilitarian in the old films, where one does not turn it on lightly.

2. The lightsaber itself pulses and waves, an effect never seen before in the previous films. It looks like, wait for it.... fire . This is because J. J. is once again tapping into previous images applied to new situations: Fire is an ancient, dangerous technology . Lightsabers are Fire. For George, lightsabers were alien and wholly confusing , closer to the Monolith from 2001 than what we're seeing here . It was the sound (much like Kubrick used) that made you realize it was anything more than the ordinary "Sword + Laser = Laser Sword", especially in a world with laser blasters and hyperspace. Here though, it's sort of implied "Oh yeah, we know what that pulsing is, we know how it works. It's got a Crystal and shit." We all know how fire works, but that doesn't mean we don't want to sit and stare at it. J. J. is trying to not just tap into the ancient technology = fire metaphor, but also remove the strange holiness from the sabers and replace it with something well-known in its power, and therefore possibly more frightening . It's not the family heirloom or hokey weapon, it's something you've heard rumors of and the sight of which makes you shit your pants.

3. It is filmed in the misty woods . Something, again, very Arthurian and mystical. He's wearing a robe, not armor. Replace the lightsaber with a heavy metal sword and I would have sworn this is from a King Arthur reboot and this is the Black Knight.

Plot Implications from the Aesthetics

See, the original star wars pulled off childlike innocence with its modesty , not with its neoteny . The prequels weren't modest at all, and that was what made them so difficult to get involved in. What J. J. Abrams has done is made something much older look much younger by puffing its cheeks and giving it a bib, then smearing food on its chin. He did the same with Star Trek by polishing it until it was spotless and then putting it on display inside a glass case inside an apple store.

The good parts of the prequel have nothing to do with innocence, it has to do with aggression . Take the final lightsaber duel out of Episode 1, and the film becomes much worse, because the only time we saw the rewards of character development in that film were during aggressive scenes. Obi Wan and Qui Gon's relationship didn't really make sense until you see Qui Gon die. Until that point, he was a wanna-be original trilogy Obi Wan, but in that battle we get to see that he is not just a mentor, nor is he hiding any truths from Obi Wan. Qui Gon is John Lennon to Obi Wan's Paul McCartney , and that wasn't really revealed until you got to see them fight together. Now the strained dialogue in the opening scene feels more relaxed and you can see what they were trying to do. It's not that those were the only character developing moments, but only the aggression fueld moments made sense .

In Episode 5, Yoda was mysterious due to his obsfucating intentions . Luke barely learned anything from him, Yoda demanded far above Luke what was possible, and he made you question if the Force really was so powerful if this was the "best" he could do. In truth, Yoda was frustrated with the lack of proper training,but we saw it only through Luke's eyes of being an "acceptable" student who never was quite ready. Luke was modest and Yoda was demanding that he be aggressive.

So in the original Trilogy we had innocence as a theme , in the prequels we had aggression and in this new trilogy the theme will be childhood . I think that the complexity of the political intrigue of the prequels will be thrown completely aside.

So, from that aesthetic analysis, what does this mean in terms of plot?

1. We will not see much interplay with the failing empire's politics, instead we will follow individual stormtroopers on an emotional level. In fact, I doubt we'll get any "big picture" analysis.

2. None of the original characters are likely to hold positions of power, or at least use it, and their emotions are going to be bared and on display. Any major political decisions are going to be purely emotional, like how a child thinks the President acts.

3. There will be NO confusing who is good or bad here, and we will (almost) certainly not see Luke fall to the dark side as in some of the expanded universe. In the original trilogy we saw that all it took was wanting to end his friend's suffering to tempt Luke into seeking revenge. I doubt we'll see that same grey morality. If a character is tempted by the dark side, it will because of obvious flaws, not out of a desire to do good.

4. The lightsaber battles are not going to be highly choreographed complex stylistic kung-fu contests anymore. They're going to be heavy, simple, and brutal. They'll be heavily emotionally charged, and probably reference the battle in Episode 5 a lot with dark lighting and crackling fire. It's a return the original "you need two hands to wield this power" archetype of the original trilogy. This is probably what excites me the most.

5. We're gonna get A LOT of Stormtrooper Sympathy . Not only are the helmets aesthetically in tears, but we have a major character in their armor and part of the plot is definitely going to follow them as troopers.

The key difference between this and the first star wars film is a lack of modesty instead replaced with an almost baby-ish design aesthetic.

This isn't a bad thing, mind you, just different. It means that Star Wars is very much going to become looser stylistically, moving away from the rigorous image of a giant complex world with crazy politics and technology and turn into more of a childhood fantasy universe where even the most complex stuff is easily imagined.

If the film is good, it will be like this:

(Don't get too hung up on plot details, but this is my prediction solely based on the style of the trailer, I could be wrong on certain accounts, but basically its a retelling of episode 4 with some critical twists made obvious by the design choices. Also, it can be very good and divert strongly from this, but my point is that IF it is good, it will likely be because of the changes we see here from the OT or Prequels)

We see a protagonist begrudgingly trying to maintain their youthful innocent life on this planet before the vestiges of the empire come knocking, pulled into a political battle they wanted nothing to do with. They will bemoan their slow loss of innocence. The difference is, Innocence is NOT taken from them like Luke's was with the death of his uncle, but long-coming as they have to just 'grow up' and go out into the world. They've already lost innocence, they're just too immature to move on.

Likewise, we'll see a stormtrooper who has been forced to grow into his armor yearning for freedom from the serious, adult repression. The empire has heavily cut costs and is running out of money and manpower . They have dropped some of the more utilitarian images also out of a constant desire to appear more accepting, loosening the requirements for enlistment as the clones have long since run out . But as a result, they are sending unprepared troops into battle with minimal training and basically burning through stormtroopers desperately in an attempt to regain control. This is not the hyper-competent clone army designed to fight 10x their own numbers, nor is it the exclusive, second-generation fear army of the prequels. They have warring factions within them, and all of this pressure is seen heaviest on the shoulders of soldiers. We're going to get a sobering, mature reminder of the "racial draft" of the vietnam war and PTSD . George always presented the stormtroopers are an Aryan society of soldiers, remove that Nazi influence and you now have the freedom to make some serious critiques on Desert Warfare. Oh yes, that war in that desert. If they go this route...

...then Star Wars Episode 7 is how the next generation of kids will first really learn about War in the Middle East. And I think that is cool as hell. I see some serious Starship Troopers influence, and that's a very good thing.

The savior to this depression and angst will be the pilot of the Millenium Falcon , which has been held up as a savior of innocence strongly in the trailer. Someone more guiding who has gone back and forth from innocence and cynicism. I'm guessing it's not going to be Harrison Ford, actually, but a more youthful embodiment who has it "on loan" while Han is forced into a home life with Leia. That, once again, is going to give us some serious We're going to see a lot of callbacks to Lando and Han Solo, Lando embodying the "settling down" adult hood of Han Solo wanting to stay free. Perhaps our stormtrooper will give in and thrown down his helmet, even convince others to come with him and give up the fight, or perhaps he knows something about the fragmented empire's new plans and is being hunted for it. Either way, we're going to feel sorry for this guy. They run from the empire. Jay Jay cashed in hard on the sympathy card with this trailer, there's no way he's not going to play it.

From there, our protagonist has now opened Pandora's Box, realizing that maybe there is a place for them, in the stars, where they can be free like this pilot without growing up. This new pilot is our new Obi-Wan. But just like that, this will come to a crashing halt with the introduction of the real antagonist, this new Sith, who is pursuing for some completely unknown reason . Our protagonist is going to be confused, much like a child when mommy and daddy are having a fight. This is critical insight. Our character is going to be far less emotionally mature than Luke was, and I expect some Peter Pan metaphors along the way .

The pilot of the Falcon, our peter pan himself , knows what's up though, and he's all like "Shit, we gotta tell the others", dragging our protagonist with him to meet the old guard, where it's revealed that not only is this protagonist in tune with the force, but also this stormtrooper might have some important information. But the old guard (Luke, Leia, Han) are not administrators, nor are they really in that much control. They've aged and just happen to be the foremost knowledgeable people on what the Sith are like. This is scary, because they don't know what to do . They're parents who are making things up as they go along . And it becomes painfully obvious that mommy and daddy aren't going to solve the problems any time soon.

So without careful thought, our protagonist decides to run and act on it now, culminating in an investigation to the dark woods, reaching something strange, mystical, and dream-like . There they are approached in full by the new antagonist, clearly out of their league and toying with our protagonist, wherein the first temptations are made. He plays an anti-yoda , but doesn't use logic or reason, but pure fear and emotion, the things that motivate a child . The protagonist maybe does something they regret, and in their emotional instability, flees. The Sith pursues, intent on killing the protagonist to maintain his anonymity. Foolish villain makes foolish mistake because villains are fools . Remember, no more grey morality here, or subtle complexity. He is a Black Knight, not a mastermind.

The film culminates in a sudden realization of the stormtrooper's knowledge or experience, and the Empire tries to strike a blow against the new rebel government, and our protagonist finds her redemption in taking Luke's advice and protecting her friends, saving the day while denying the Sith his chance for seduction. However, this will mean that he is omnipresent now, forever lurking in the shadows to find his revenge in the sequel. Much of the latter part of the film is pure action sequence, as we've come used to expecting.

If it is bad, it will be like THIS:

Much of the same plot, but we're going to see overblown stylistic choices and extremely one-dimensional characters. A lack of subtlety and a single-minded simplicity could be the downfall of this film. The protagonist will not be an idealist who doesn't want to grow up, but a whiny brat who doesn't want to face reality.

Likewise, our stormtrooper is not an enlisted sympathetic character, but a weak and hollywood-depressed sad sack. Returning characters will be bumbling politicians and the plot will be the type of thing a 5-year old would dream up.

It will be ruthlessly predictable and filled with tropes, the type of stuff that kids will find life-changing and adults will find yawn-inducing. It will feel much like a bad Marvel movie, not a bad Star Wars movie.

Most of all, if it is bad, it will fall victim to this:

And it will be so lighthearted, heavy handed, and toylike that anyone over 12 years old is going to be bored as hell.

So these are my thoughts. What about yours? The stuff I'm particularly interested in are the toy metaphors, the mysticism, and most important of all, the lack of Automobile influence!

DISCUSSION (70)

Grindintosecond > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 09:52

I would just like a movie for o ce that has good scenes that let you ponder the meaning g or a moment before moving on. Likr, say, Episode 4, or any movie with Robert Redford before 1995 where we can just put a camera on his reactions for a bit and learn alot.

ly2v8-Brian > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 10:30

Design wise it looks like a return to the 'lived in' look of the original trilogy.

PS9 > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 10:35

Star Wars was always a toy-etic franchise, right from the beginning. During contract negotiations for Ep. IV, Lucas famously chose merchandising and franchise ownership rights over a higher salary as a director , which he did knowing that pretty much anything/one in universe could easily be turned into a toy. Disney/J.J. are simply continuing the decades long tradition there, and with billions more at stake in merch they would be fools not to.

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 10:39

Kinja'd!!!

Glenda B. Overby > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 10:42

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titsinmymitts > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 10:42

I don't know enough about Star wars canon to make a judgment as to the validity of your analysis, but goddamn my body is ready after I saw this in the trailer:

Kinja'd!!!

Earnest Borgwarner > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 10:51

I'll just skip right on past on the Star Warz shiza, and just focus on that totally bitchen Camaro!! That thing really gets the juices flowing n stuff!!

mk1gti > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 11:03

Well, the way I see that initial scene is the black guy stole the stormtrooper suit to get away from some threat and was successful, so that destroys much of what was said in this 'assessment'. . . I'm thinking something similar to when the droids jumped into the escape pod to get away from the Star Destroyer ending up on Tatooine.

The rest? It's Star Wars! Who Hoo ! ! !

If there's no Jar Jar Binks character and a balance of appealing to kids as well as adults we'll have a winner. If they over-cutify it. . . Don't even want to think about it.

F1guy hates duck billed F1 cars > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 11:12

I think the black Stormtrooper is lost and separated. If you look at the clip of the troops in the transport, it focuses on one soldier who is distinctly shorter than the rest. I don't think this is an accident...

I think his unit got slaughtered, and he is running. From who, what? I don't know. The sound of the probe droid in the background suggests it's not good.

Mike > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 11:31

Kinja'd!!!

storm trooper helmets were leaked months before...

Mikolai > titsinmymitts
11/29/2014 at 11:45

I don't know... When I saw that, I was thinking "how's that cross-guard going to work?" because cross-guards back in the day were used to disarm foes as the blades are locked to the hilt, then with a twist of the sword, would cause the opponent to lose grip and drop their weapon. In this instance, the "blade" is a pillar of plasma that would essentially melt through any solid object it touches. From the looks of it, it'd melt through the cross-guard.

jbmadness > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 11:55

Kinja'd!!!

This may be an intentional misdirection, but how does this guy look like a cloned Boba Fett?

Daveinva > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 12:07

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Good luck!

Maxaxle > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 12:23

Kinja'd!!!

the7thearlofgrey > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 12:26

Kinja'd!!!

kids, you try to bring them up right but what you going to do, it's a father's hope

TxBrumski > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 12:32

Wow. Really well written and thought out. I'll be kinda bummed if they don't have a character like Luke that is thrown into adulthood and now faces his difficulties with courage and confidence. I don't want to see another kid on screen that doesn't want to "grow up" because he's childish. Luke was a hero to a lot of kids because of how he was a kid that became a grown-up and beat the Empire. We already had one whiny kid, Anakin, in the series.

sadfasdf > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 12:33

So exactly like his Star Trek movies.

factsaboutrats > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 12:36

"In the original trilogy we saw that all it took was wanting to end his friend's suffering to tempt Luke into seeking revenge. I doubt we'll see that same grey morality. If a character is tempted by the dark side, it will because of obvious flaws, not out of a desire to do good."

I don't agree with this. The vehicle to the dark side is often a desire to do good. Not just Luke's original leaving Dagobah to save Han and Leia, but Darth telling him the truth of his paternity and spinning it as a family reunion to try him to turn.Don't forget Anakin's descent started with a desire to save his mother's life. That type of emotional pull on a good character lays very well with your theory of "children" and making emotional decisions.

Zkirby > titsinmymitts
11/29/2014 at 12:50

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Terry S. Cook > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 12:52

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Mable B. Mancuso > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 13:31

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Jake Schofield > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 13:54

A very powerfully written and thoughtful article. Looking forward to your follow up thoughts as future trailers and then the movie drop.

oldirtybootz > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 13:59

I'm just excited as hell. Obviously I hopr it will be more grown up because I'm not a little kid anymore, but I like the toy aspect of it. A huge part of my childhood wasn't just the movies, but the Kenner and Lego Star Wars toys.

DrBoom > jbmadness
11/29/2014 at 14:42

Even the Stormtroopers in A New Hipe were no longer Jango Fett clones.

DependingDepending on the sources you choose to believe, either the trade federation destroyed the clone factories on Geonosis, and/or the requirements of maintaining a glactic empire takes more manpower than Geonisis could crank out.

That's why they're "storm" troopers and not "clone" troopers. Please also note that the various stormtroopers in ep. IV-VI all had different voices.

KirkyV > DrBoom
11/29/2014 at 15:12

Indeed. It also bears pointing out that a recent episode of the 'Rebels' TV show - which is officially canon - actually featured a Stormtrooper training academy.

(One nitpick, though: the planet you're thinking of is Kamino, not Geonosis. Geonosis was the planet of the flying bug people.)

DrBoom > KirkyV
11/29/2014 at 15:18

Ugh. You are so right! Lucas' habit of "scifi"-ing names makes Geonosis (like Genesis and genetics) seem such a...natural(?) choice that I make that mistake often.

It doesn't help that the PT is basically unwatchable.

KirkyV > DrBoom
11/29/2014 at 15:21

Of the prequel trilogy, I enjoy: the pod racing scene, the duel with Darth Maul, and parts of the space battle at the start of III. That's pretty much it. (Not including Star Wars: Clone Wars which, after a shaky first few episodes, really got going.)

DrBoom > KirkyV
11/29/2014 at 15:30

Gendy's Clone Wars was straight amazing. The 3d rendered version got really good after season 1.

I can't agree with you on the pod race. It felt like such a rehash. We had seen it before (and with higher stakes) on Endor. All of the dramatic beats were the same, and helmeted Jake Lloyd looked distractingly like Stewie from Family Guy.

Oh...Darth Maul...as a martial artist myself, watching Ray Park work is just such a pleasure. He's really gifted, and that scene made *excellent* use of his talents.

vicomtepicabia > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 17:00

I gotta disapprove about the cross-guard lightsaber, and it's got nothing to do with whether the weapon is practical or whatever. It has to do with remember when the Phantom Menace trailer had Darth Maul with a double-lightsaber, and how cool everyone thought that was? Well it was cool—almost cool enough to distract (temporarily) from the fact that his weapon was the only cool thing about him. My problem with the cross-guard isn't so much about it in itself but that to me it indicates JJ has been spending too much time tweaking weapons and probably not enough on story and character. Glad to be proved wrong, though.

Brett C. Willis > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 17:47

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GhostZ > factsaboutrats
11/29/2014 at 18:04

Maybe it wasn't very clear, but I'm agreeing with you entirely. In most of the OT and prequels, the road to the dark side is paved with good intentions. However I don't think that's going to be true in these coming movies, or it will seem like an obvious "He's doing something bad" when it happens. I think it's going to be a lot more simplified than what we saw in either the prequels or the sequels.

GhostZ > oldirtybootz
11/29/2014 at 18:05

I'm a little scared, but it could be pulled off well.

GhostZ > vicomtepicabia
11/29/2014 at 18:11

I agree wholeheartedly. This villain could seriously fall flat on its face as an angsty Darth-Maul wannabe.

The other thing that worries me, a lot, is how unfinished the trailer looks. Compared to the Episode 1 trailer, which was chock-full of completed scenes, this one is spartan and looks like they just took the best bits of "whatever they have done so far", given that most of it is CGI doesn't help either since it doesn't indicate that they've edited most of the actual footage. The December 2015 launch sounds very reminiscent of the original Star Wars starting with a spring, then summer, and then finally pushed to a Christmas launch for 1976. It was finally actually released in May of 1977, a year behind schedule.

I would hope that they would delay it rather than release something unfinished though.

GhostZ > TxBrumski
11/29/2014 at 18:13

Agreed, and I worry that if they aren't subtle enough, this new protagonist is going to try way too hard to be luke and end up being unlikable. I think kids will love the protagonist regardless though, which is JJ's main concern.

GhostZ > Daveinva
11/29/2014 at 18:14

Thankfully, I've started my own business and had sex plenty of times, so I'm not a basement dweller. It's one of the reasons I have the time to do this, gotta have hobbies in life! Mine are cars and movies.

Frank Grimes > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 18:14

Why is there a black storm trooper I thought they were all clones of a non black guy?

GhostZ > jbmadness
11/29/2014 at 18:18

The canon goes that the first-gen clones were ordered around 10-15 years before the Clone War, the second gen clones went into service at the end of the war and made up the first stormtroopers at the end of Episode 3. Kamino, the planet supplying the clones, got in bad with the empire some time and by episode 4, they were on third-gen clones and running out, so they opened selective enlistment. Luke even talks about joining up with the empire I believe.

This film is set 40 years after that, so we're now working on what would be 5th or 6th generation clones, Jango Fett is long dead (as is Boba) and no guarnatees that his genetic material is still useful. Remember, they had to keep him around to do the original cloning so they don't have the capability to clone without him, which means they were cloning on clones .

Ironically, this is one of the most well-established canons that isn't shown on screen, because the Clone Wars was originally going to be part of the trilogy back when Anakin Starkiller was a protagonist, so George had the idea of an army of faceless clones that got thinned out and more warped as time went on. He dropped the idea but revisited it in the prequels.

GhostZ > DrBoom
11/29/2014 at 18:21

Geonosis didn't have clone factories, it had droid factories. Kamino is the clone source, and there's 2 reasons why:

1. They can't make perfect clones without Jango Fett around, and he's dead, so they're making clones of clones (which only lasts so long). Plus, it takes 10+ years to grow a new batch, then they have to be trained. This was all sort of explained in the boring scenes of Episode 2. The clones only lasted an additional 10-20 years I think before dying due to accelerated aging.

2. Kamino (less canon) rebelled against the empire between episodes 3 and 4, cutting of the Empire's clone supplies. I think by Episode 4 they were down to 50% or less clones and when these movies are set (almost 75 years after the original army was comissioned) they'd certainly be out of clones entirely.

GhostZ > Frank Grimes
11/29/2014 at 18:25

If you pay attention to the discussion in Episode 2 (the boring scenes before Jango is chased away):

1. The first army was commissioned 15 years prior to the clone wars. This means that by the time this movie came around is 75 years after they started producing clones.

2. They can't clone without Jango Fett around to provide genetic material for each new batch. Jango is dead. Boba refuses to give his DNA.

3. Each clone only lives ~30 years due to accelerated aging, and is only combat ready for about 10 of those. This means they're on, at least, 3rd or 4th generation clones by the time this movie comes out.

4. (less canon) Kamino, where the clones were made, rebelled against the empire between Episode 3 and 4, and the clone factories got destroyed.

GhostZ > mk1gti
11/29/2014 at 18:28

I would agree... if it wasn't for the other Stormtrooper redesigns and the fact that we're seeing things from their perspective in two scenes. Again, I could be wrong, but there's too much that goes right from a directorial standpoint (showing the sympathetic side of soldiers) for JJ to just ignore and go unused.

But as I see it, he's deserting the army and fleeing, so it's not entirely different from what you're saying except that he was previous enlisted.

Frank Grimes > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 18:28

you cant blames me for not knowing these things. I only watch the movies.

I noticed when I first watched the trailer it seemed like everyone it running from something except the evil people. Does this mean the empire is huge and powerful again?

Also I wouldnt be suprised if that speeder bike thing popped out of those rusty red boxes and became some dope fast hot rod machine.

GhostZ > PS9
11/29/2014 at 18:29

I completely agree, the difference is that it wasn't so obvious in the films. I think JJ's lack of automobile and mechanical influence has made him make things a bit more nonsensical and toylike than the hot-wheels aesthetic of George's films.

GhostZ > Frank Grimes
11/29/2014 at 18:32

Oh, it's no problem. Most people don't care and frankly, it was a boring as hell scene.

The empire was always huge, and in the extended universe after the emperor's death it was fragmented and at constant war with itself, even coming back resurgent under a great character by the name of Admiral Thrawn.

So my guess is that the empire isn't huge and powerful, but is dwindling a lot slower than people realized. The head was cut off, but that leaves hundreds, maybe thousands of regional commanders and admirals with their own troops, fleets, and systems.

GhostZ > Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion
11/29/2014 at 18:32

Star Wars Ep. 7: A New Hype

GhostZ > Grindintosecond
11/29/2014 at 18:33

There are lots of films like that, unfortunately very few of them are Star Wars films.

GhostZ > F1guy hates duck billed F1 cars
11/29/2014 at 18:34

Yyep, I agree completely, although he might be deserting out of fear than that his unit got killed. If his unit was simply killed, I doubt they'd send a probe droid, my guess is that he knows something and they want to silence him.

GhostZ > Mikolai
11/29/2014 at 18:35

I don't think JJ is being very technical here, and I think this also implies that there isn't going to be a lot of acrobatic technical fighting, but skirmishes are going to be based more around fear and intimidation.

oldirtybootz > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 18:47

Oh I'm nervous about it too, but my childish excitement for it overcomes it. I liked Pirates and The Lone Ranger were good, and the prequels weren't exactly perfect, so I'm hopeful.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 18:55

Good right up. I have good expectations but I don't think it'll beat the OT.

GhostZ > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback
11/29/2014 at 19:20

Completely agreed. Hollywood, by nature, cannot create something like the OT because of the circumstances, they just weren't the same and probably never will be again. As long as sci fi and fantasy is still popular and well-funded, there can't be another real OT.

Etta G. Oglesby > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 19:41

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Frank Grimes > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 20:44

Boring as in meeting with other star wars nerds. or as in reading the books and stuff was boring. I kinda want to be a star wars nerd now. about as far as I got outside of the movies was being blown away by the awesomeness of star wars cutaway books. I spent a few hours one day reading the wiki as well.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > Mikolai
11/29/2014 at 21:03

Given the nature of the beam, where its not the normal, smooth beam that we are used to, this may be a very, very old weapon built before the construction of the lightsaber was perfected, and may have been intended as more of a ceremonial weapon. Its also possible they are built for intimidation purposes, because, lets face it, to a person you are trying to strike fear into, a lightsaber with a cross-guard looks scarier than a normal lightsaber. The other option is it is a new build made by someone that doesn't quite know how to construct a lightsaber, and as such, may not fully grasp that the cross-guard is unnecessary. If you are the kind of person that builds their own PC's, think about your first PC vs your 4th or 5th PC. Your first one was all kinds of flashy and loud, whereas in your 4th or 5th build, you drop all the flashy crap and go with a more functional build.

Thomas L. Stapleton > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 21:59

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Thomas L. Stapleton > GhostZ
11/29/2014 at 22:00

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DivideByZer0 > GhostZ
11/30/2014 at 00:29

One could say Star Wars A New Hope is at the very least a sword-and-sorcery piece, if not medieval...(do samurai film influences count as 'medieval'?)

Sam > vicomtepicabia
11/30/2014 at 01:16

I always thought Darth Maul was a really cool character. The problem was that his plot arch was this.

1) I WILL KILL THE JEDI.

2) Tries to kill the Jedi and successfully kills Qui Gon.

3) Dies.

He had no real back story or character development. They could've made him a much bigger part of the movie. (I know Qui Gon's death was important, but still)

TheFamousEccles > GhostZ
11/30/2014 at 02:24

Sorry, have read a little of the text here, but I was away for a few days and not been around to see this trailer!

I'll read the rest later, but by crikey I'm going to the cinema in Dec!

Mary I. Anderson > GhostZ
11/30/2014 at 03:05

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MuchWagon > GhostZ
11/30/2014 at 06:42

Why would they need more Jango DNA? They used it ALL?

AJ bought another motorcycle > jbmadness
11/30/2014 at 13:44

Play Battlefront 2 it explains all of this. Basically thede using way more people/other species for stormtroopers at this point.

Mikolai > e36Jeff now drives a ZHP
11/30/2014 at 15:05

True, it could very well be more of an ancient ceremonial piece, and could also explain why the beam looks much more unrefined than those used during The Old Republic and the Skywalker timeline.

I'm not a huge Star Wars buff, but I remember reading that the Dark Side has had many hidden ancient stashes strewn all around the galaxy, most of which remained hidden from both sides. For instance, there's that ancient undeveloped race of Force users that primarily aligned themselves with the Dark Side. I believe they were used as tools to fight against the ancient Jedi Order, long before Yoda and the Jedi Council. The light"saber" (sword?) we see in the trailer could very well be created during that period of time.

Just Cars for Joe Bryant > GhostZ
11/30/2014 at 18:00

Um, there is also the fact that after awhile the clones were eventually supplanted by enlisted humans.

Wookiepedia - Stormtrooper

GhostZ > MuchWagon
11/30/2014 at 19:17

Something about needing him around, possibly for more than just the DNA. There's a whole slew of epigenetics to get into if you want to be very realistic.

Speed.Freak > GhostZ
12/01/2014 at 02:01

Kinja'd!!!

Tell em Roll2-D2!

Speed.Freak > GhostZ
12/01/2014 at 02:11

Kinja'd!!!

In a Galaxy far far away, a flying toaster.

Kinja'd!!!

Speed.Freak > Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion
12/01/2014 at 02:23

Kinja'd!!!

factsaboutrats > GhostZ
12/01/2014 at 10:50

I realize that, and I really like your write up, especially the symbolism of the new lightsaber. However, I don't agree with your assessment, I think the the grey morality and confusion will still be there. As a matter of fact, it has to be that way, as the new hero is already in a Stormtrooper suit! You don't think there will be some conflict there(presuming he's a recruit and not in disguise)?

Great write up, though, geektastic!

MuchWagon > GhostZ
12/01/2014 at 16:30

I do NOT.

bopadsf > GhostZ
12/02/2014 at 20:42

This is not a trailer. It's a teaser...