"jlmounce" (jlmounce)
11/25/2014 at 14:08 • Filed to: Firebird, Track, Safety
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"jlmounce" (jlmounce)
11/25/2014 at 14:08 • Filed to: Firebird, Track, Safety | 5
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...is no simple matter.
When it comes to unsanctioned track days, most places don't bother to enforce much in the world of safety. bring your car, proof you've been on track before and some money and they'll let you out there.
Here in Colorado, those types of track days are few and far between. Instead NASA is the major sanctioning body for all road racing and HPDE events. There are rules...strict rules to consider before being allowed on track.
Meet my current dilema, safety restraints.
By the luck of the gods, my 1969 Firebird was a highly optioned car from the factory. That means it came with a lap belt, shoulder restraint and rear lap belts.
A factory three point safety restraint is the minimum allowable seatbelt system required for HPDE events within the NASA organization. At the end of the day, my car qualifies under those rules and it's legal on track.
That's not to say this system will be best suited for track ability. Safety technology and best practices have come a long way in vehicles since 1969 and that shows in how my car's restraint system is setup.
You have the option to use no belt, the lap belt only or the lap and shoulder restraint together. I suppose you could use only the shoulder restraint if you wanted, but you'd be an idiot.
The shoulder belt mounts itself back towards the B pillar of the car, or in the Camaro/Firebird case, what's known as the sail panel. It and the lap belt's anchor point is below and aft of the seat, creating a "wrap around" effect of the system. This is contrary to modern vehicles which locate the lower anchor to the side and level to the seat.
On the plus side, because the system does not utilize a lock and coil system like modern cars, but instead adjustable buckles, this allows me to cinch myself in place as tight as I feel comfortable. The downside is that because of the upper anchor point for the shoulder harness, the belt is at a fairly extreme angle across the chest. This means I get okay support in right handed corners leaning in to the belt, but nearly zero in left handed corners leaning away from the belt.
It's important to note that 3 point systems are designed like this to prevent the submarine effect in a crash.
Anyway, in stock fashion I'm going to find myself sliding all over the place in left hand corners.
If this car were going to be a track toy by default, the obvious solution is to follow NASA's CCR and install a cage with harness bar, FIA certified seat and accompanying 5/6/7 point harness.
This does however destroy the car's effectiveness as a street car, not withstanding the safety concerns of having that type of system in a street car to begin with.
My initial thought was an over the shoulder four point harness from Schroth. They make an anti-submarine four point that mounts to the rear seat anchors and is FIA certified as long as it's design spec'd for your car. Obviously, that's not the case here and as such, while that system would provide better support in actuality and likely a margin of added safety over the factory system, it is not approved through the NASA CCR.
That primarily leaves me back to square one and just dealing with flat seats and a crude 3 point system. The only other option I am looking in to rule compliance with right now is the addition of a torso strap in addition to the factory 3 point harness. A torso strap does exactly what it sounds like, straps you to the seat around your torso, helping to keep you in place.
Next problem...fuel slosh from a rear facing filler neck...next time on "I should just track a modern car."
Do-Rif-To
> jlmounce
11/25/2014 at 14:16 |
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Option C
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jlmounce
> Do-Rif-To
11/25/2014 at 14:19 |
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Ironically, some people do actually use stuff like that. The more popular choice is that friction canvas material you buy for your kitchen cabinets.
SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
> jlmounce
11/25/2014 at 14:22 |
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How often do you use the back seats? I don't think that a cage would get in the way unless you use them often.
crowmolly
> jlmounce
11/25/2014 at 14:29 |
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Option C. Upgrade your seats. That's what I did.
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jlmounce
> SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
11/25/2014 at 14:30 |
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Not incredibly often. However the main point of contention there is safety on the street. Cages are only safe when they are grouped with a restraint system that keeps you in place. For them to be safe and effective, they must be combined with a proper seat, harness, helmet and neck restraint. Otherwise they tend to do more harm than good.
I'm obviously not going to want to helmet up, slip on a hans device and strap in to a 5 point harness because I want to take my car out for a cruise. Obviously you don't have to, but you run that added risk if an incident does occur.
Also I'd like to not have to spend several thousand on everything needed to make that FIA legal and work correctly.
camaroboy68ss
> jlmounce
11/25/2014 at 14:37 |
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the shoulder harness in the f body's was actually standard beginning in 68 for the front seats. Rear seat shoulders were a option. My 68s shoulder set has never been unfolded from the clips in the top. I hate the 68 system. It's basically two lap belts. There is a seperate buckle for the lap and shoulder.
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jlmounce
> crowmolly
11/25/2014 at 14:39 |
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Eventually. That's still a point of contention I am working with NASA officials on.
11.4.12
Seats
All seats must be securely fastened to the structure of the car such that they are strong enough to withstand a major impact. If replaced, the replacement seat should be installed according to the manufacturer's instructions.
Expired FIA seats may be used in HPDE without a seat back brace if one was not required originally.
If stock seats are to be used with a roll bar/cage, care should be taken to prevent the seat from submarining under the roll bar. Care should also be taken to prevent the occupant from hitting his/her head on the roll bar/cage.
Passenger seats must meet the same minimum requirements, per the CCR, as the driver seat, if used by passengers.
The sticking point there is that there are no current manufacturers that make a seat designed specifically for the 1969 Camaro/Firebird. It's possible to install them, but you generally have to source and modify seat tracks from other applications to get them mounted. Tech inspection may or may not catch, or even care about that, but I'd like to not have to request a refund on an event I'm trying to attend because my car won't pass tech.
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jlmounce
> camaroboy68ss
11/25/2014 at 14:42 |
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Yes mine is the same. Two separate buckles. It's a pain and rather uncomfortable. It gets me in the door though.
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camaroboy68ss
> jlmounce
11/25/2014 at 14:47 |
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that's why I've have never unfolded them. Plus I have the deluxe belts with complete metal female end, if you are serious about want to trackdsy/autocross the car then I think you need to upgrade the belts. Is there any rules on just adding in a belt bar? What the minimum cage requirement? You could throw in a old school style roll bar depending on the rule book.
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jlmounce
> camaroboy68ss
11/25/2014 at 15:11 |
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Running a harness bar would require a seat change, as would running any sort of cage with a belt bar. Basically, NASA's stance is that if you're modifying from factory, you have to meet rules for wheel to wheel racing, which obviously get pretty tight.