Is a crap old bike a good leaner bike?

"Milky" (jordanmielke)
11/10/2014 at 11:08 • Filed to: Ask Oppo, Bikelopnik. BMW, Kawasaki, Honda, CB, Bike, Motorcycle

I've been debating about getting a bike for a little while now, but will something from the 70's do me good or harm?

Long story short I'm a designer that doesn't know the product he's designing. There have been many times this year where I said: "Oh, if I rode I would of known that". It also doesn't hurt that bikes I like are cheap. But I have a few questions for those that care/know.

Is a 500 too big for a first bike? Does it really even matter, cant I just not rev it out while learning?

Should BMW's be avoided? Aka are Japanese bikes more reliable?

Is 70+mpg real world?

And here are some things I like:

DISCUSSION (48)

OPPOsaurus WRX > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:12

my first time learning a bike was a dirt bike in some sand pits. I came up to a trench and panicked and accidentally twisted the throttle which caused me to spin out. I'm not saying its a bad idea, they just call it a accident for a reason.

bob and john > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:12

in a nutshell: no.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-beginners-…

read that. you'll will see why

jkm7680 > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:13

A 250 is probably a better idea, but if you've ridden a dirtbike before you should be fine.

Milky > jkm7680
11/10/2014 at 11:15

Ehh I've only ridden quads. It will have to be a steep learning curve, lol.

But I've had plenty of friends offer to teach me how to ride already.

Decay buys too many beaters > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:16

Whatever you get mak sure it's light.

jkm7680 > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:16

Try and get some riding experience, and if you feel comfortable go for it!

Mike > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:16

I've got some of the same questions. I want to get into riding with my own bike now that I'm going to college. I learned on an R1200GS, so size/power isn't as much of a concern, but I still don't want to go overboard. I was looking rather intently at a BMW R100/7, but I might go for a new bike if the price is right. (Just because I'm concerned about reliability, really. Especially if it's fuel-injected. I've come to learn that carburetors and I don't get along.) If I were to buy new, it'd probably be either a Yamaha FZ-07 or that new BMW S1000XR. The latter is a bit much, but there's something to be said for a rugged bike with a bit of grunt when we're talking Michigan roads.

MonkeePuzzle > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:17

YES!!! then you don't care if you crash it, repair costs are usually lower

NO!!! they tend to be heavier which can make learning harder

If I had to vote for good beginner bike, it'd be a road legal dirt bike. Cheap, easy to maintain, and usually lighter than same aged road bikes.

briannutter1 > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:18

70's-80's bikes are nice because most of them are aircooled, relatively low, and light. Bearings in the front forks are always iffy and you need to make sure those are correct. Tires are often cracked and can be problematic on old bikes that are stored. A lot of people say to start with a 250 or something, but it's really the weight that matters most. Not to little, not too much. Around town, a 250 ninja is a lot of fun. A 600-750 has enough poop to run on the interstate without being blown sideways by gusts of wind. Try to find something (probably Japanese) where parts availability is good and stick 4 stroke. Most of your accidents will be layovers at less than 10mph on sandy or wet intersections

Milky > bob and john
11/10/2014 at 11:24

But is buying a slightly used bike just to learn and then dump it worth it? Parts availability on a old bike doesn't scare me because I'll just drive my car if something breaks. But the other brakes I could see being a good point.

Milky > OPPOsaurus WRX
11/10/2014 at 11:25

Lol, how does that matter how old the bike is though? Or was this referring to size/power?

Milky > briannutter1
11/10/2014 at 11:28

… its upsetting how crashing or "layovers" is inevitable. But I would mostly use it around town, no highway on my commute.

Milky > MonkeePuzzle
11/10/2014 at 11:29

Someone else just said old bikes are light!?

I'm struggling with the concept of buying a bike just to learn and then ditch it and get something I want.

bob and john > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:29

Iw ould just get a used 250 to start learning. youa rent trying to be a bad-ass in the first year or two, you need to develop your skills before anything else. THEN you can get something a little more tempermental to ride on.

and to answer your MPG question: yes, that is IRL. I get 55 on my SV650 while not being the kindest with the throttle, so 70+ on a 250 is more then do-able.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:30

the power. the old bikes look awesome, especially the lime green one.

Milky > Decay buys too many beaters
11/10/2014 at 11:30

That seems to be a big thing considering how much its being brought up.

Milky > Mike
11/10/2014 at 11:31

Why are the roads here so damn terrible? But damn someone else just said get a 250 and you learned on a 1200?!

MonkeePuzzle > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:35

continue to struggle. It is truly the best way to remain alive, buy an underpowered bike and learn.

Milky > MonkeePuzzle
11/10/2014 at 11:40

"It is truly the best way to remain alive"

Ha, well when you phrase it like that.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:45

I think a 250 is a better size for learner bike. Just keep to the surface streets. You can go on the highway with that, but I wouldn't advise it. Also if you are looking at old bikes, check oonline to see if you can actually get parts for it. I had one i really wanted to restore, but the parts were made exclusively of unobtainium.

jariten1781 > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:46

They can be...but definitely not that Kawi triple. Those things have a nasty (but fun) power surge in the middle of the band which will catch a learner out in no time. They're difficult even for experienced rider due to having to manage the on-off style engine. They sound awesome though and make a good third or fourth bike. Road going two strokes in general should be avoided by new riders.

I would recommend something like a KZ or GPz 550 if you're interested in those. The GPz also had a monoshock rear in 82 and up.

The key, if you start on an old bike is to do a good baselining: valves, oil, carb, suspension, brakes, chain, tires etc. all need to be checked and most likely replaced or refurbed since most of these have been sitting in storage for ages. I would not hesitate to put a learner on a 550 or less bike from the late 70s/early 80s as long as the bike was in shape.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:46

I like old midsized bikes, and many of them are great for learning. I don't know if these are the right ones though. As much as i like them, the BMW is heavy, and the Honda has a very high center of gravity. I've never really dealt with or thought about Japanese triples, so can't comment on the Kawasaki. If you like old small by modern standards bikes, it might be better to start out with something like a Honda or Kawasaki twin like a CB350 or 450 or KZ400. They'll be quick enough, but not enough to get you into serious trouble, and are light enough (especially the CB350) to feel like a big mountain bike when accidentally locking up the rears. It feels natural and, at least to me, what I was expecting a bike to feel and behave like when I started riding. They're also pretty simple and easy to maintain. High mileage in that area is possible real world, but I wouldn't recommend taking any of the bikes I recommended on the highway for long stretches of time. They'll be great on back roads though.

Milky > OPPOsaurus WRX
11/10/2014 at 11:47

They do look awesome, but sadly everyone is commenting to buy something new-ish and a 250.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:49

I wouldn't say that it's inevitable. I haven't been down yet. That being said, I only ride small bikes around town.

JEM > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:49

Do you want to learn to ride, or learn to work on motorcycles?

If it's the first, buy a newer bike built in the 2000s

If it's the later, buy an older bike.

If both, get something made in the 1990s ;-)

There are so many new/newer inexpensive bikes around used for like $2000, there's no reason to not buy something more modern and learn on it, then turn around and sell it if you want something bigger/different.

As for size, yeah a 250cc Ninja is going to be cheap, light, reliable, etc.. and perfect to learn on, especially if you're not riding on the highway much/at all.

Would a 500cc work if you're responsible? Absolutely. I bought my first bike this year and it's a 600cc Katana and I haven't done anything stupid with it. Like you said, just don't open the throttle too much/all the way. I knew I wanted 500cc or bigger though, seeing as how I was going to use it for 80 mile a day highway commuting.

The most important thing: Take an MSF class. Look around and there will inevitably be one in your area, put on by/at a bike shop or some safety council. What they teach you will be invaluable, and your insurance rates will thank you.

Milky > bob and john
11/10/2014 at 11:50

If everyone is saying it it must be a valid point. Noted.

bob and john > Milky
11/10/2014 at 11:53

just because you can doesnt mean you should
that 1200 he learned on? thats a 600lbs +, 15k+ bike

briannutter1 > Milky
11/10/2014 at 12:01

Original Ninja 250 then. Super cheap, great on gas, quick but not fast. Pull the plastic lowers off to save damaging them.

Decay buys too many beaters > Milky
11/10/2014 at 12:39

My first bike weighed 570lbs, there is nothing quite as shameful as dumping your new bike into your neighbors bushes then needing to ask for his help to pick it back up again.

John > Milky
11/10/2014 at 12:45

As cool as the Kawasaki is, steer clear. First it's a 2 stroke and when running well can be wicked fast. The problem was in the braking system. On the upside, there's always a collectors market for it.

Mike > Milky
11/10/2014 at 16:46

M-DoT is incompetent and poorly funded to boot. And when you spend your early years in a motorcycle dealership, things work a little differently. I pretty much jumped straight from my 70cc minibike to the GS when my dad wanted me to start learning to ride on the streets. It was especially interesting for a 15-year-old kid who weighed less than 135lb. Scratched a lot of cylinder heads.

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > Milky
11/10/2014 at 17:21

I love 70's bikes they look better IMO and get that Kawasaki.

Milky > Mike
11/10/2014 at 18:06

Haha, sorry for those cylinder heads. Noted.

Milky > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic
11/10/2014 at 18:07

I think 70's bikes look better in everyone's opinion.

Milky > John
11/10/2014 at 18:12

Honestly I don't know jack about bikes yet, I've only looked at them as aesthetic objects …. which is my problem. Aka I had no idea it was only a 2-stroke or a collectors item. I'll obviously have to do a lot more research before buying, which wouldn't be until the spring anyways.

Milky > Decay buys too many beaters
11/10/2014 at 18:16

Ha that had to be shitty. But seems like a smart choice buying a light bike then. Easier to maneuver, therefor learn on & I can pick it up when (not if) I lay it over.

Milky > briannutter1
11/10/2014 at 18:18

So run it naked, then put the body back on when I want to sell it?

Kinja'd!!!

Milky > bob and john
11/10/2014 at 18:20

Yea he later replied with "Scratched a lot of cylinder heads." Thats not part of my plan.

Milky > JEM
11/10/2014 at 18:25

Honestly both …. I'm a bike designer that doesn't know shit about riding, lol.

The overwhelming response on this has been to get something like a 250 though, the masses can't be wrong. I'm thinking now I'll get something in the spring and learn on it next summer. Then sell it/upgrade over the winter.

Definitely will look into that MSF class thing though, I'm sure it will be worth the money.

Milky > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
11/10/2014 at 18:26

Well thats what I'll be doing so I like positivity.

Milky > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
11/10/2014 at 18:32

Correct me if I'm wrong here (probably am) but wouldn't a CB350 be almost the same weight as a CB500? Ala Corvette vs Z06 corvette …. does a bigger motor make that big of a difference?

Its a shame that the BMW is heavy though, I lust after a bike like this.

Kinja'd!!!

I really just want to get a bike to wrench on it/turn it into a cafe racer. I'm going to have to start looking into specs about different brands & models.

Milky > jariten1781
11/10/2014 at 18:35

So its like VTEC?! I kid I kid.

I didn't even know it was a 2-stroke, like I said I'm clueless. But thats kind of why I want a old bike, so I'm forced to go through it and learn how everything works together.

Milky > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
11/10/2014 at 18:40

This is more of a buy in the spring thing, so I'll definitely be doing a lot more research. But I'm looking for something I can ride through town (no highway on my commute) and wrench/learn on. "250" does seem to be the overwhelming response though.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Milky
11/10/2014 at 18:44

The bike you had listed above is a CX500, not a CB500. It's an entirely different type of bike. It's water cooled, has a sideways V-twin, shaft drive, etc. It also has a very tall engine/gearbox combination, hence the complaints about the center of gravity being high. The CB350 and CB500 would be closer, but the 500 would usually still weigh more since the frame is built around the engine and has to take more power, especially in this particular example since the CB500 was really more like a downsized CB750 then an enlarged 350.

Milky > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
11/10/2014 at 19:02

Thats the kind of shit I need to learn about.

Still confuses me though, because iirc Motor Trend used to have a bike show on their youtube channel and they did a beginner bike video and this is a run on sentence and they said a dual sport was a good first bike.

Bahh, I won't be buying a for a while anyways and more research is to come.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Milky
11/10/2014 at 19:11

Dual sports are usually pretty light and easy to ride. There's certainly nothing wrong with them. If you're planning on wrenching though, I'd say get something old and simple. The CB350 is pretty great for this if they're cheap in your area.

Milky > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
11/10/2014 at 19:17

Sorry I meant to imply with that they have a high center of gravity too. I don't actually know that though.

But say no more, I got it(?).

Kinja'd!!!

Mike > Milky
11/10/2014 at 22:22

I'm just glad that all the times I dumped it were low-speed fuckups where the weight got the better of me. That bike was amazingly stable at speed, but the prospect of crashing a 600lb Beamer scares the shit out of me.