To keep the winter beater, or to get something else

"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein) 11/04/2014 at 17:26 • Filed to: None

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I've been in the process of getting my '99 Grand Cherokee ready for winter. I just dropped ~$620 to replace the transmission pan, ATF, front windshield washer pump, and rear wiper arm. But it still needs more work. Perhaps a bunch of work. Should I keep it, or find another winter beater?

The other stuff that will need fixing at some point, and estimates to fix, includes:

Oil pan - $537
Oil pressure sensor - $122
Serpentine belt - $120
Front differential pinion seal - $202
Idle air control valve - $???
Weather stripping on all 4 doors is loose - $???
Seat heaters don't work - $??? (this isn't a necessity, but nice for a winter car)

I took out a small loan (2.9% for 36 months) to buy the thing. Since it's November in Wisconsin (a.k.a. prime SUV selling time) and I've put a decent amount of work into it, optimistically I'd like to sell it, pay off the loan, and net ~$1000.

I'd then go buy some other winter "beater" (a.k.a. some other old, loaded-up SUV) for ~$5000. There's no guarantee that I'd find something completely trouble-free, but perhaps something that needs less work than my Jeep does at this point.

The replacement candidates are:

2001-2003 Infiniti QX4

Yes, it's a gussied-up Nissan Pathfinder. But it has one crucial difference: an electronic transfer case with full-time 4wd, a lockable center diff (only in low range) and a 2wd mode. '01 models got a refreshed front end, dash, and crucially, a bump of 72 hp over the previous year, for a total of 240. The interior's a bit cramped, but overall it's fine.

2001-2006 Mitsubishi Montero Limited

It's weird looking, and the closest Mitsubishi dealer is 50 miles away. It's also heavy and underpowered at like 4800 lbs and 215 hp. But it has a really versatile 4wd system with full-time 4wd, lockable center diff in both 4Hi and 4Lo, and a 2wd mode for saving gas. The '01-'02 have a 3.5 liter motor and a rear LSD. The '03-'06 have a 3.8 liter motor, no rear LSD, but a supposedly-trick traction control setup.

1999-2002 Toyota 4Runner Limited

It's very beige, and underpowered, but also mostly bulletproof. A little more roomy than the QX4 but much closer in size to it, than the Montero. Electronically-controlled transfer case with full-time 4wd, lockable center diff in both 4hi and 4low. No 2wd mode like the Montero or QX4. The '99-'00 has an optional locking rear diff, the '01-'02 have traction control and no rear locker.

So should I just keep my Grand Cherokee and continue to throw more money at it, which would make me then want to keep it around for at least a few years to get my money's worth out of it, or should I get rid of it and start trying to get one of these replacement options?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 17:36

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Dare I even ask about the oil pan on the GC?

uofime > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 17:39

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looks you need to make a trip to the junkyard to get the oil pan cheap.

120$ for a serpentine belt is asinine should be 20 for a cheapo 30 for a decent one, though I don't know this specific model

Steve in Manhattan > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 17:47

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The 4-Runner is, I believe, based on the HiLux, which means it's impossible to kill. With the 4 cylinder, that is.

Textured Soy Protein > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/04/2014 at 17:48

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It's currently intact, but very rusty, and according to 2 different places I've taken it for service (1 oil change and 1 dealer visit) it could get a hole punched in it relatively easily.

The part itself isn't too expensive, but the Jeep dealer said in order to remove the oil pan you need to drop some part of the exhaust and various other labor-intensive stuff.

Textured Soy Protein > uofime 11/04/2014 at 17:48

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These numbers are for parts and labor.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 17:50

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There is a TRD Supercharger for the 4Runner, for more power.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 17:51

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There's something deeply wrong with that description. Oil should be leaking onto the pan about a decade in advance of any chance to get rusty and protect it, based on my experience with Land Rovers. Oh wait.

The drop-exhaust-to-replace-pan thing, though. *facepalm*

Textured Soy Protein > Steve in Manhattan 11/04/2014 at 17:53

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The 1st and 2nd gen 4Runners were based on the Hilux. The 3rd gen and later 4Runners share their platform, but not styling, with the Land Cruiser Prado (a.k.a. Lexus GX). The ones I'm looking at have a 3.4 liter V6.

Textured Soy Protein > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 11/04/2014 at 17:57

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Haha no I won't be putting on a supercharger or doing any mods for that matter. It's a winter beater. I just want it to be good in the snow, reliable, comfy, have good cargo space, and be cheap.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 17:58

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The supercharger is reliable, plus it means more power for 4WD snow drifts! Also, I would like to know what an unbiased source thinks of them.

Steve in Manhattan > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 17:59

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Any interest in an older 4-cylinder? I had an '87 HiLux, but never drove a 4Runner from that era or into the '90s.

uofime > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 18:00

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what's the labor rate? that still seems really high. if you're mechanically inclined at all change the belt yourself it should be pretty easy.

why do they want to replace the oil pan, is it leaking? if it's not that bad and you're tight on cash I'd just ignore it, same for the sensor, just check your oil often

maristgrad > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 18:01

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This is my winter beater and it kicks assssssssssssssss. Its the British equivalent of the f-150 working on every farm in Great Britain

BigBlock440 > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 18:10

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You call it a winter beater. To me that means put minimal work into it, and run it until it rusts in half or gets too expensive to fix. Then it goes to the junkyard or demo derby. Are you at that point yet? Yes? Get rid of it. No? keep it.

Textured Soy Protein > maristgrad 11/04/2014 at 18:12

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And I'm pretty sure any old Range Rover I buy will need at least as much if not significantly more work put into it than my old Jeep.

Textured Soy Protein > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 11/04/2014 at 18:17

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The supercharger would also cost almost as much as the whole vehicle. I'm looking to buy something and drive it, not buy something then throw several thousand dollars worth of performance mods at it.

Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 18:19

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I'm going with this purely because it's something different. I've never seen this thing before. And the 2wd option will be valuable...

maristgrad > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 18:19

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Mine hasn't needed any engine work whatsoever, I did my research and at 31k miles I've spent less than $900 on maintenance, synthetic oil change, a headlight, nice wipers, nice tires, brake pads. But then again I actually know how to work on cars. This 99 Range is running at 121k like brand new. Check the oil at any time and its clear. I know how to take care of cars. It comes down to research and knowing exactly what you're buying. Sounds like you haven't been taking care of your jeep, that's why you're having this current crisis.

Textured Soy Protein > Steve in Manhattan 11/04/2014 at 18:20

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Nope, I want something with full-time 4wd and ABS.

Textured Soy Protein > uofime 11/04/2014 at 18:25

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The oil pan isn't leaking. The metal is rusting away to the point where there's a decent chance it could get a hole knocked in it by a rock getting kicked up from the road. The high labor cost is because in order to access the oil pan, you have to first drop the exhaust and crossmember, and torch bolts out of exhaust parts, and various other shit I'm not prepared to do in my garage at home.

As for the serpentine belt, I suppose I could do it myself, but it's a much smaller cost anyway.

Textured Soy Protein > BigBlock440 11/04/2014 at 18:30

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Well, I guess I just mean 'vehicle I drive in winter and don't necessarily beat to shit.'

The two most important things to fix are the oil pan because it's liable to get a hole punched in it, and the idle air control valve because last winter with the bad valve, it would be a pain in the ass to start in the really low temps (like 5 degrees F or lower).

It would start fine, but not hold an idle. So I'd have to hold the gas pedal down while I started it, and then keep my foot on the gas for a good long while until it came up to temp. Then when I'd start driving, I'd have to left foot brake while I feathered the gas to keep it idling and not dying. Eventually the valve would pop open and act normal, but it was very annoying.

Steve in Manhattan > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 18:36

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Expedition? Explorer? Trailblazer? Are those full time 4WD? Don't pay attention to SUV stuff.

And, just so you know, buddy of mine just passed 240K on his Trailblazer - on his way back from the moon now. And it's been pretty reliable.

Textured Soy Protein > maristgrad 11/04/2014 at 18:36

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I bought the Jeep a year ago, so I haven't had it long enough to neglect it. It was in decent but semi-rough shape when I got it, I've already put a bunch of work into it, and am now discovering more that needs to be done.

Textured Soy Protein > Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' 11/04/2014 at 18:37

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It's basically just a Nissan Pathfinder with a fancier transfer case and nicer interior.

Corey > maristgrad 11/04/2014 at 18:44

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AtlasM has a solid point in regards to the reliability of the P38 (which is still the best looking, I think) based on the common nightmare stories of head gaskets, electronics, and EAS. That said, you can find one in reasonable nick for $5k and do the work yourself and still come out just fine.

And that's exactly what I want to do. I've posted my e46 M3 for sale and I'm looking for Rangie. Just want the total opposite thing for a while.

BigBlock440 > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 18:47

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I mean, that's just my criteria for keeping or getting rid of a winter beater, or beater in general.

Textured Soy Protein > Steve in Manhattan 11/04/2014 at 18:50

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Expedition is way bigger than I want to mess with. Explorers are just kinda crap, and Trailblazers are ehhh but the interior is horrible.

Basically, I've got my list of things I'll consider. It's either keep the Grand Cherokee and continue to put money into it, or sell it and buy a QX4/Montero/4Runner.

RW53104 > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 19:57

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Per the Montero: I am currently debating whether to keep or sell my fiance's. 150k miles but still such a tank... despite almost $5k in repairs in the last year (including $1k in tires). A lot of that was due to previous neglect that wouldn't (hopefully) be found on other examples, but be wary that parts are sometimes hard to find, few people are familiar with these trucks, and it has a million and 1 things to go wrong (example: rear AC lines). Also, a foglight costs $500. I haven't replaced my broken one.

That said, the leather, stereo, HUGE moonroof, space, towing ability, etc is all wonderful, as is the 4x4 system. The car got my fiance and I all the way across the country, in some very rural areas, all while towing a 4k pound camper (through mountains, deserts, etc.)

Maybe you can see why I'm so torn... Hope this helps!

Textured Soy Protein > RW53104 11/04/2014 at 20:55

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Yeah see that's kinda what gives me pause about the Montero. The bigass sunroof and 4wd system are appealing. I also like the general roominess and big windows. But maintenance is a question mark unless I find someone selling one that has a bunch of service records. I'm not overly worried that there's no Mitsubishi dealer here, I'm sure any decent independent shop would be able to work on it and get parts, but it's another consideration.

Steve in Manhattan > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2014 at 22:01

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Rented an Expedition for a long trip w/ an ex-GF and her kid - felt less awkward than its size. Montero no, they might exit this market. Toyota is probably the answer, IMHO.

Textured Soy Protein > Steve in Manhattan 11/04/2014 at 22:40

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I'm actually sorta kinda maybe leaning QX4 (or Pathfinder) if anything. 4Runner prices actually seem to have gone up from when I was looking at them a year ago. The QX4 has 240 hp to the 4Runner's 183 hp.

Also, I mistakenly thought only the QX4 and not the Pathfinder has the full-time 4wd transfer case. But the '02-'04 Pathfinder LE also has the full-time 4wd.

maristgrad > Corey 11/05/2014 at 00:11

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I actually picked mine up from an auction for $958 after taxes and fees. I paid a range rover tech $50 to come with me and we went over this rig with a fine tooth comb. The only thing he could find was the alignment was slightly off, needed a new headlight and it could use, but didn't need a new bumper. I would never buy a p38 without checking for overheating and EAS issues. It was a single owner truck with 90K which made me feel like I was stealing when I paid for it.

Here's how it came from the auction

After less than $1000 of work and maintenance this is how it looks now. I've driven it 31,xxx in less than 6 months. Off road, in traffic, long trips with A/C blaring, recently took it up to some muddy back-roads to get to our cabin, with a trailer, and the interior warm and toasty, the air suspension was so rock solid the kids didn't even notice how bad the muddy roads were.

I have a newer 2008 Range Rover Sport and I would never take it where I take this bad boy, the only reason I bought it was to take it up to the cabin but I ended it up driving it almost everyday. Kind of to push it, I wanted to see how hard I could drive it before I got any dreaded warning lights and nothing has happened thus far. I almost always engage sports mode when I get on the freeway and this truck hauls ass (even though it says my MPG has dropped to 12.1). Never buy a used truck/car without an expert with you, (unless you're spending under $1000 then it doesn't really matter does it?). Any pro tech, whether it be a Mercedes, Audi, BMW, pay them a couple bucks for an hour of their time buy them a beer afterwards, and often times if you have problems with the car in the future they'll diagnosis it for free.

Mark (land rover tech) gave me the all clear on a car I suspected was worth more than the bidding price but ended up being a gem. It's a fun a hobby, I love using the same bundle of cash to buy cars, fixed them up with my own hands sweats (and occasionally blood) and selling the sweetly meticulously maintained car to the lucky person who happens upon a scrupulous car lover such as myself

Here are the end results.

$39 Head light assembly from PicknPull (Junk Yard)

$149 Used Bumper with OEM winch from PicknPull (Junk Yard) - Not installed yet

$60 Synthetic Oil and oil filter

$29 RainX Wipers

$40 All required fluids (steering wheel, brake fluid, wiper fluid, etc)

$15 New Alarm interior motion sensor

$45 Materials Purchased for a Complete Detail (took a day which is about

$400 Used set of 20" rims and tires with 80% thread (Not installed since they're all seasons and I currently need winter tires)

Checked all the seals with my new friend mark from Land Rover. Paid him $100 and my took his family out for dinner

Current Result after 30K of vicarious on and off road driving

No leaks, no smoke, starts up every time, No overheating issues, A/C works in 100+ degree weather, Heater and heated seats are just as good as my newer rover. EAS works smoothly and levels automatically when I'm on the freeway. Truck is deceptively fast in sports mode. Ride is still remarkably smooth and it handles the shitty muddy and snowy pothole ridden roads to our cabin waaaay better than our never rover sport. The kids can actually sleep in the P38 unlike the the RR Sport.

I'm halfway to my next oil change and the oil is pretty much clear for Petes sake. Every car has "common" issues. I bought the newer computer system 1999 P38 Range because I had one in college and this truck is a tank, if you know how to take care of it. There's a reason it's the equivalent of the Ford F150 in Britain. If you drive through the country side almost every single farm house has one, and while many have switched to coils, I love the air ride on mine. Almost everything was cleaned up in a weekend besides the bumper and wheels.

While it's nice to ask others for opinions on oppo, the decision is ultimately yours. Do your research, and bring an auto tech for expensive cars (seriously paying a tech $50-$100 for an hour of his/her expertise is better than making the worst vehicle purchase of your life.) Knock on wood but using this method I've been 18 /19 on cars that had no major mechanical problems in the past 8 years. And that one car that ended having problems I bought from a friend, who I trusted, but desperate people do desperate things and shit happens, (I ended up forgiving him because a 98 Subaru Legacy GT 2.5 shouldnt cost $500 lol).

If you're spending a more than $1000 on a car you need for transport or just to hoon around in, always bring a tech. If it's a sub $1000 car, I usually just say fuck it because if I'm buying a car for that cheap I usually just need to get from a - b for a month or two.

This is an interesting topic though. I will focus my next weekend oppo post about how to safely buy used luxury cars without getting burnt.

maristgrad > Textured Soy Protein 11/05/2014 at 00:23

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My only recommendation is if you're buying a winter "beater", do your due diligence, bring a certified tech and for Christ sake don't take out a car loan.

Textured Soy Protein > maristgrad 11/05/2014 at 00:45

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Sup dawg,

It's all great for you. And great. I'm glad you have a method that works for you. But "for christ sake don't take out a loan," I can handle my finances just fine thank you, so I'll worry about that part for me.

Dawg.

Yo.

maristgrad > Textured Soy Protein 11/05/2014 at 01:44

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I'm not sure if you're a white person trying to act black, an ignorant black person who cannot articulate himself, or you were trying to make poorly constructed social joke. I was just offering friendly advice as a person who buys a shit load of cars. I just don't feel it's worth it to buy a car with a loan if it's under $10K, just my opinion, I wasn't trying to offend you or infer you can't handle your finances. It was just friendly advice from a fellow car lover. Take a Xanax dude you've been super defensive going about this whole discussion.

Steve in Manhattan > Textured Soy Protein 11/05/2014 at 04:36

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You probably can't go wrong with Nissan. Hell, my GF's dad had a Nissan garage on Okinawa for a long time, and he did OK.

RW53104 > Textured Soy Protein 11/05/2014 at 16:41

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I actually had much better luck with independent shops diagnosing things correctly over the dealer, anyways. A couple months ago I dropped $500 to replace the AC cooling fan, and now my debate is whether or not to spend $700 for a new engine fan clutch and leak fixes or trade it in. If you do find one with service records, or even one far away form the rust belt or that passes a mechanic's inspection with flying colors, I would wholeheartedly recommend it. Also consider the constant 15mpg, though.