I'm pissed at Microsoft...

"Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing." (granfury)
10/31/2014 at 23:38 • Filed to: None

...and the self-righteous types in the green movement, and spineless corporate types.

/rant on

This is somewhat related to the cash for clunkers type scenarios in a way, with still usable products being destroyed unnecessarily. Don't get me wrong - I'm in favor of proper waste disposal and recycling and taking the environment into consideration when making decisions - but sometimes people take it to extremes and as a result there is collateral damage that was never factored into the equation.

Here's my situation - I'm an aerospace education instructor for a volunteer organization (read: non-profit) We have annual budget of less than $1000, and that money is used mostly for scholarships. I want to do some computer-based flight training for a number of our students, say between 6 and 8 simultaneously, but I don't have a sufficient quantity of computers. Since we don't have a permanent home, I need to be able to transport the equipment, which means hauling it in my Mazda5 and storing it at home; I'll need notebooks, I figure around 2005-vintage or so, running XP.

I went to my usual source for hardware, but now that XP is no longer supported they no longer give out computers with XP, only Win7 or better. This is due to their software licensing with Microsoft, and I can understand them not wanting to piss them off and risk losing their sweetheart licensing deal (conversely, I'll get screwed on a license if I want to build a new gaming machine). They will only give out notebooks that can be upgraded to run Win7, but they don't get many. Anything that can't run Win7 is scrapped. They don't get many computers that meet these requirements, so that avenue is essentially shut down.

I've also tried some corporate IT departments, but they've gotten in trouble with environmental groups for not recycling properly, having had improperly scrapped systems traced back to them by serial number. Even if they remove the serial, it may still be hard-coded into the BIOS. They don't want to be held responsible if they give a machine away and it isn't correctly handled at the end of it's useful life. And being corporate types, they don't want to piss off Microsoft (see a theme here?)

Like C4C destroying reasonable transportation appliances, many functional but older computers that could go on serving in lesser roles are being destroyed unnecessarily when they could still be put to good use. There are a couple of interpretations of the old aphorism "The road to hell..." , this situation falling into the second of the two. There is no trust or faith that the right thing will be done, so rather than take a risk and possibly get harangued by well-intentioned do-gooders they will deny resources to groups that could use the items for the purpose which they were designed and built to do.

To go along with my screen name, I shall employ a classic Shakespeare quote, one that, like the saying earlier, has a number of interpretations: "the first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" (although I'm almost afraid to put that in print for fear that some dimwit, like a particular co-worker at a previous job that was absolutely incapable of comprehending the use of exaggeration to express a point, will fail to understand the historical context, take it at face value and then operate under the assumption that I am imploring people to actually murder lawyers. My god, people are stupid - grumble, grumble, piss, moan, bitch...)

/rant off (for now)

DISCUSSION (23)

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
10/31/2014 at 23:42

I have your solution:

Kinja'd!!!

Nibby > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
10/31/2014 at 23:44

To be fair, XP was released 13 years ago. *13.*

But THAT AIN;T STOPPIN' ME FROM KEEPIN' A WINDOWS 95 MACHINE AROUND

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
10/31/2014 at 23:44

Microsoft's hands are tied just as bad as the businesses. They don't comply with the recycling bullshit? Government gets pissed at them.

Pretty much all of this horseshit, C4C, computer recycling stuff, etc. can all be traced back to some government agency trying to improve things.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
10/31/2014 at 23:46

Read not profit, limited budget.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
10/31/2014 at 23:47

Apple has grants for non profits, he'd have to apply for them, but they exist

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
10/31/2014 at 23:48

step 1) remove serials from computers

Step 2) place on road

Step 3) start car

Step 4) shift car into first gear

Step 5) hit accelerator until speedo says 25 mph

Step 6) hit computers

Step 7) come to safe stop

Step 8) dispose computers however the hell you want

Disclaimer: At no point should you veer right or left off a cliff, into a structure of any kinda, or any nature. You should not deviat from collision course with computers

Disclaimer 2: I am in no shape or form legally resposible for you getting in trouble

Manuél Ferrari > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
10/31/2014 at 23:56

I can check to see if my company has any old laptops to donate to you

Where are you located?

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Manuél Ferrari
11/01/2014 at 00:02

That would be incredible! I'm a mile south of beautiful downtown St. Louis.

Manuél Ferrari > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
11/01/2014 at 00:13

i'm in SoCal but if you can cover shipping then I can see what I can do

Do you have any use for desktops?

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Nibby
11/01/2014 at 00:19

I know it's old, but it's functional. For my limited needs older systems with older software are sufficient. We did just receive a new primary computer, a fancy Dell with an i7 and all the whistles and bells, and something like that makes sense for reporting and finance and related functions. CBTs for rambunctious teenagers? I'm not sure I'd want to put that expensive machine at risk.

I still have a Win98 machine around for some old games. When period hardware is used with period software it makes for an interesting trip back in time. I certainly wouldn't use this machine to do HD video editing, nor would I trust using it for financial work over the Internet.

Microsoft's situation kind of reminds me of a defunct school bus manufacturer called Crown Coach. One of Crown's biggest problems was that their products were built perhaps too well, and didn't need to be replaced all that often. XP, for all its faults, just does what people need it to do, and can continue in that fashion for the foreseeable future. I understand their need to cut support, particularly since it doesn't do anything to enhance their bottom line, but to essentially bully companies and groups into not using XP may come back to bite them in the a$$ (not that they really care about their reputation).

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Manuél Ferrari
11/01/2014 at 00:26

I recently moved out here from Los Angeles (Westchester), having been born in the Inland Empire and raised in OC. Timing is everything, eh?

Let me know the specs and estimated shipping cost and I'll check with the other members on the finance committee to see if it would be worthwhile. No real need for desktops as I need to be able to easily transport the equipment to the meeting locations. The only pieces of desktops that I would be able to put to use would be hard drives to be converted to externals for the notebooks, but I know that those are the components most likely to be destroyed in the name of security.

Thanks again!

Manuél Ferrari > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
11/01/2014 at 00:44

Haha no way. I'm OC born and bred

I just emailed my systems guy to see if he has any laptops I can donate. I'll let you know what I find. Feel free to message me on Monday if you haven't heard back from me yet. Sometimes I get busy and lose track of stuff :)

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
11/01/2014 at 00:49

I love Apple (as evidenced by my primary desktop, tablet, phone, MP3 players, etc.), but even if I could get a grant I think their equipment would be overkill for my needs and too nice to put in the hands of rambunctious teenagers.

For running ancient software (and the related 16- and 32-bit hardware) I can't justify a current machine, even if it was free. Best stick with what is known to work in this scenario rather than trying to adapt newer computers to old software and peripherals.

It might just be me. As I've gotten older I find myself taking a more minimalistic approach in various aspects of my life, both personal and professional. Part of that means using things longer as long as they still meet needs and expectations and don't impose a performance penalty, and keeping functional items from winding up in a landfill or otherwise being destroyed. This is one of the reasons I do use a lot of Apple products; those purchase decisions were based on historical longevity of the items in question and not because they are trendy and popular.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Manuél Ferrari
11/01/2014 at 00:58

My parents are still down in Laguna, in the house they bought 34 years ago. As winter starts to encroach on us in the midwest (it was 86 on Monday but down to 46 today...), I look forward to being able to escape the snow and head back home for a little warmth someday, even if that means 60 degrees.

I know what you mean about losing track. I get so much email I tend to get overwhelmed and lose out on opportunities. Despite my attempts at unsubscribing from a number of lists, the quantity of mail doesn't seem to diminish. I recently had an aftermarket stereo for the current Mazda5 for sale and didn't notice the message that it had sold until a week after the guy paid me. I called him as soon as I found his message, but it was too late - he had purchased a different stereo. To add insult to injury, I still had to pay the PayPal fees in order to refund his money.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
11/01/2014 at 01:07

I see where you are coming from, and it makes sense.

This is one of the reasons I do use a lot of Apple products; those purchase decisions were based on historical longevity of the items in question and not because they are trendy and popular.

This above reason is also why I buy apple products, I always am thinking at least 4 years in the future when I make an electronics purchase. I have a vintage mac collection, the oldest working machine being 25 years old. But my DD laptop is almost 5 years old, and still running ahead of the spec of the lowest spec new PCs. I run bootcamp and windows vista on it, it ranks a 5.3 on the windows experience scale. Thats another reason why I prefer macs, I can run OSX, windows or linux while PCs can only run windows or linux, no OSX without breaking a user agreement.

Manuél Ferrari > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
11/01/2014 at 01:10

that's so cool they have a house in Laguna! I wish I had a house that was in Laguna and paid off!!

Oh my god so many emails. Emails galore. I have 1700 unread emails right now, haha

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
11/01/2014 at 01:51

I once had a huge vintage Mac collection, but gave most of it away when I moved a few years back. It's amazing how we tend to hang on to Apple equipment and try to get as much of it as possible - I still don't quite understand us. The guy I gave the stuff to wanted to make sure it didn't end up as e-waste, and I trust that what he didn't keep he spread around to others.

In addition to my mini I brought a couple of G4 towers and a couple of G3s (one Yosemite modified with G4 plastics and one desktop in a 7600 case), but I haven't fired them up (other than the mini) in years. The top G4 has a dual Sonnet 1.8 card in it, and it's a nice machine, but I don't have a real need for it. I also brought some early iMac parts with me, including a 466 MHz processor upgrade an a rare 3Dfx that fits in the mezzanine slot. Maybe I'll do something with them, or perhaps sell them. I also have a few DayStar CPU upgrades for '030 and '040 machines that I couldn't let go of, even though I have no machine in which to use them.

I did recently acquire, for free, a high-end iMac G4 with the 20" screen. It's beautiful, but going on the Internet seems to suck up most of the CPU power. Perhaps I'll repurpose it as an OS9 gaming machine; I'm still a SimCity 3000 junkie, and still like Falcon 4 and Myst.

I've got a friend that has quite a bit more money than me, so every 5 or 6 years he'll buy a nice high-end desktop, knowing that it'll last him for years. He had a G5 and then bought a Mac Pro in 2012, dropping about $4K on the last one. I put XP on it via Bootcamp for running Microsoft Flight Simulator X (the only reason he would keep a PC in the house). Even with complex scenery and every setting cranked to maximum, he was still getting 100+ FPS - simply amazing. Mind you, that software is several years old, but it's still the best of its type. Two 27" monitors flanking a 30" unit had me a little jealous, to say the least.

I've got another friend that recently found a MacBook at a surplus electronics store for $45. They couldn't get it to work, but he had a hunch it was something minor, and in this case it was just a dead hard drive. He's a developer, and runs Win8 on it, not even bothering to install any version of MacOS. He mentioned that he wants to get something different, and I feel a need to rescue this computer; my newest Mac notebook is a the first 17" PowerBook G4, and I could use something a little newer myself. I don't have the money to buy it, but I know what he paid. I'm a bit of a thrift store junkie and have accumulated a large assortment of Lego pieces and parts on the cheap that I was planning on reselling. He's got 4 kids, 3 of them under 10, and when I mentioned a possible trade he seemed quite receptive to the idea. What is old junk to one person can be a treasure for someone else, and this is part of the reason I don't like seeing stuff end up as waste.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
11/01/2014 at 02:06

I have an Apple II/C, a Trayloading Tangerine iMac G3 333mhz with 256mb of upgraded ram, a PowerMac G3 Minitower (the Beige one) a custom ordered 2000 Powermac G4 with 1.5gb of ram, a 20" iMac G4 lampshade, a 2005 1.8GHz iMac G5 with blown capacitors, the aformentioned SE/30, and a mid-2010 13" MBP with a 2.4ghz Intel core 2 duo processor and an Nvidia 320M graphics chip. I also have a 8gb iPhone 2G. I got most of them free. My SE/30 was my cousins, I have the original paperwork to go with it including the registration form. I use the Lampshade for typing papers mostly, the screen makes it very comfortable. The Powermac G4 I sometimes even use for Photoshop CS3, Its still even at 14 years old a very capable machine. I tend not to use the iMac G3 because it cools convectionally, thus making the room very hot. I have the replacement capacitors for the G5, but the copper core logic board has made soldering near impossible. I love having these macs, It reminds me how far technology has come.

orcim > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
11/01/2014 at 06:47

Beige G3 was one of my favs. Had gathered up 3 other machines to keep the one going over the years.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Manuél Ferrari
11/04/2014 at 20:13

Greetings. Any word from your systems guy regarding the old stuff?

Manuél Ferrari > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
11/05/2014 at 02:19

Hello. We have one one Vista laptop. We lost the power supply so we need to locate a universal one to power it up to make sure it still works. The only other upgraded laptop is being used as a spare.

If this machine works would one laptop be helpful?

Cheers

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Manuél Ferrari
11/05/2014 at 10:21

Thanks for the reply and the good news. Even one notebook is a step in the right direction.

We should find a way to take this offline. Shoot me an email at n707pv@aim.com.

Manuél Ferrari > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
11/05/2014 at 18:54

sounds good! emailing you now