Morning Oppo: A Question.

"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing) 10/15/2014 at 09:52 • Filed to: None

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What engine was either a terrific street motor that made a horrible race engine, or a terrible street engine that made a terrific race engine?

The Mazda Rotaries and the 426 Street Hemi immediately come to mind.

What say you?

macanamera > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 09:57

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LS motors

road—->race

crowmolly > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 09:59

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Finding one that's rougher than the 426 Hemi will be a challenge.

I would throw the crossram 302 Chevy in as a contender. Kind of cheating though.

Sweet Trav > macanamera 10/15/2014 at 10:00

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LS Motors do everything perfect.

Sweet Trav > crowmolly 10/15/2014 at 10:00

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Ah yes, solid lifter cam, high revving, special belts. like a smaller slightly less temperamental version of the 426 hemi

ZiptieMcBumper > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 10:02

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L88 427.

Rock Bottom > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 10:03

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Ford Boss 302 cannot into street driving?

AdmiralAkbar > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 10:05

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The answer is always 4AGE. There wasn't anything wrong with it as a road engine, revvy, good sound, great on gas, reliable, but in full Formula Atlantic spec it produced more than double it's street power - 112hp up to 240hp totally naturally aspirated from a 1.6L.

crowmolly > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 10:05

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257/269 duration @ .050 in a 302? 4500-7500 or so powerband?

Seems legit.

But like I said, it's kind of cheating.

Sweet Trav > Rock Bottom 10/15/2014 at 10:07

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New boss or old boss?

505Turbeaux > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 10:09

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the Corvair flat 6...

terrible on the street:

solid on the track

crowmolly > ZiptieMcBumper 10/15/2014 at 10:09

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Not as bad as you might think on the street, though.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 10:10

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The original Buick 215 that became the Rover. Mickey Thompson raced an engine on that block at Indy pretty successfully, and it immediately started use as a basis for race boat engines and others. In the Real World, however, they corrosion-trashed their radiators, overheated, popped head gaskets, and caused GM to say "fuck this" within 3 years.

Sweet Trav > crowmolly 10/15/2014 at 10:10

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No AC because they knew it STARTED making power at 4500 rpm and rated it at 290 @ 4900 when in reality it made closer to 400 at 7800...

Rock Bottom > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 10:11

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Old Boss. Definitely the old Boss.

crowmolly > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 10:11

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I believe you are thinking of the stock 302, not the CR with the matching 140 cam. That wasn't rated at 290. The standard 302 with the 254/254 cam and 780cfm Holley was, and that's not great but not brutal on the street.

Sweet Trav > AdmiralAkbar 10/15/2014 at 10:12

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So it's a good engine all around? I know it's early but did you even read the question. Have another cup of coffee.

ZiptieMcBumper > crowmolly 10/15/2014 at 10:12

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No, not terrible. You definitely had to either install electric fans or keep it moving at a pretty decent speed, though. Not something you'd want to let sit in traffic.

Sweet Trav > crowmolly 10/15/2014 at 10:14

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Was the cross ram a dealer installed option or a factory option. I'm a bit fuzzy, but the 302 Chevy is probably my favorite motor of all time.

AdmiralAkbar > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 10:15

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MY COFFEE IS COLD :(

Coty > 505Turbeaux 10/15/2014 at 10:20

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alsocoolinACVWs

Sweet Trav > AdmiralAkbar 10/15/2014 at 10:20

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That's one of the reasons why I'm drinking Red Bull.

adamftw > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 10/15/2014 at 10:30

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My 125k probably-worn-out cam agrees. I do rather like the engine though... just gotta keep it cool.

Racescort666 > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 10:30

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The Iron Duke, err...

Sure, people have used them as race engines, but why start with shit? Works great as a street motor, cheap, mostly reliable, burns fuel to move vehicle, cheap.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > adamftw 10/15/2014 at 10:35

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I have a book on power builds of the engine, so I know a good deal. They run most efficient at something like 170 degrees, but run dirty, so the Factory Approved Solution to that is to run them way too hot. Combine with bad radiator and hose designs in the facelift RRC and on, radiator clogs, and others, and temperature is absolutely their bane.

Soft cams - also very much a thing.

Shift24 > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 10:44

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Depends on what you mean by Racing. Those hemi's were one of the most used engines in NHRA Drag Racing. But if you mean track yeah but thats almost any big block other than the 427 and cobra jets.

The Honda H blocks maybe? Vtec yo

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 10/15/2014 at 10:56

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I wonder how they got around that in the Rover version. Did they run them hot as well, or just added in cats until it passed emissions legislation (or were the EU regulations more lax?).

Sweet Trav > Racescort666 10/15/2014 at 11:06

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The converse of this the GM Quad 4, as a street motor, utter garbage, as a race motor, look out.

adamftw > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 10/15/2014 at 11:07

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my 3.9 cruises around 180-185. it's getting a new radiator in the spring.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/15/2014 at 11:14

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That's actually what I was citing. The Buicks never faced emissions, but the Rovers did, and the "solution" was to run them close enough to margin to pop head gaskets and drop liners.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > adamftw 10/15/2014 at 11:18

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That's not half shabby, and more or less what it's supposed to be, IIRC. Cooler is better, but it wasn't really designed for. I have a 4.2 I'm putting in a Falcon pickup, and I'm not screwing around. Two twin-core radiators with electric fans.

Racescort666 > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 11:25

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It's kind of funny that they put both of these motors (Quad4 and Tech4) in damn near everything but the Quad4 came just a little too late to make a handful of cars great rather than mediocre. IMO, the Tech4 made a passable truck motor but should never have been put in a car.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 10/15/2014 at 11:33

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Interesting...

So, install one into a pre-cat car and hoon away at 170 degrees?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/15/2014 at 11:41

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Perhaps. There's some tweaking of the ECU involved for anything modern to optimize (they're designed to run lean except under accel - too lean), but a thermostat swap and other things help.

adamftw > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 10/15/2014 at 11:45

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I read on the GEMS trucks they needed to be 185-190 to run right, but those are the 4 cat motors. I have a regular ole distributor on mine and have the timing advanced a little on mine, no problems yet. I'm sure with a newer radiator I'll be able to keep it under 190F year round.

crowmolly > Sweet Trav 10/15/2014 at 14:49

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Dealer. It was not "delivered in the trunk" like the legend says. It was sent to the dealer and sat on the shelf until the car arrived. Then sometimes the dealerships put the parts in the trunk of the car until they could be installed.

The "-140" camshaft was not always installed but it was the cam that Chevy offered to go with the crossram and header package.