Not my usual topic...

"mcseanerson" (mcseanerson)
10/01/2014 at 19:11 • Filed to: None

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But my biggest problem with feminism and similar schools of thought is a lot of the followers are of the idea that for one to be raised up another has to be put down. Or that their problems outweigh others to a point to make another groups problems unimportant and not worth considering. I'm not against women excelling but I am against them trying to further their goals at the expense of others. I don't think anyone should profit from anyone else's losses.

Have some car stuff Oppo

DISCUSSION (46)

Haimatox > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:15

Flame suit on? I'd hope so.

For Sweden > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:17

Kinja'd!!!

BATTEN DOWN THE HATCHES IT'S GONNA GET BUMPY

mcseanerson > Haimatox
10/01/2014 at 19:19

I should probably put one on, but I'm not trolling or saying I have anything against women, just saying that one of the things holding feminism back is how it reduces men's importance as well as either attacking men directly or refusing to defend them.

My citroen won't start > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:21

I'll be here if you all need me.

Kinja'd!!!

mcseanerson > For Sweden
10/01/2014 at 19:22

Lol, I really hope not. That's not my intention. I don't buy into feminism but I also don't buy into masculinism either (if that is such a thing.) I think all people should have equal opportunities and we should make a point of making all opportunities available to all people regardless of any physical characteristics.

mcseanerson > My citroen won't start
10/01/2014 at 19:23

That family sucks at wall construction.

Conan > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:23

I don't think it has to. I think it's personally troubling when somebody who's moderate and sane gets tarred with the same brush as the annoying social justice warriors or crazed radicals.

Sweet Trav > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:26

Simply put, anyone who is not for far reaching equality is afraid to compete on a level playing field. To not give those who are underrepresented an advantage simply keeps the pitch tilted towards privileged men.

In other words, Boys clubs exist for a reason, to keep girls out, for the sole purpose of keeping women out. Strangely enough the same boy's club mentality keeps poor people from having their voices heard in politics, People of color subjected to unfair and racially biased enforcement of the laws. Poor men are just as much a victim of the ruling white patriarchy as women are.

Sometimes equality is equal treatment, sometimes it is giving an advantage to those who were put in a system rigged against them.

I'm not afraid of level playing field. Are you?

Tom McParland > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:29

I read the article...I think some solid points were made.

My citroen won't start > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:30

That is what feminism is about, leveling the playing field, equal rights. Anyone who says women are superior to men isn't a feminist.

mcseanerson > Sweet Trav
10/01/2014 at 19:30

Oh I want to give you a billion stars! Yes many times over. This exactly what I'm always on about. I don't want a society that favors any group whether it be their group or mine.

Gamecat235 > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:31

Until there is actual equality for all people on the merit of their actions, pushing for it is a noble pursuit which I will not disagree with.

mcseanerson > Gamecat235
10/01/2014 at 19:33

I don't think that's what feminism is pursuing, at least not based on the laws and workplace practices that are put into action in the name of it.

Gamecat235 > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:35

At the heart of it, this is exactly what feminism is pursuing.

mcseanerson > Gamecat235
10/01/2014 at 19:38

But the problem is you have to stress the at the heart of it part which might mean that's just what feminism is pursuing for some and not for others, or maybe that's just one thing it's pursuing. Maybe you should consider feminism as an idea is broken and you need a new ism. Or better yet we don't need isms.

Sweet Trav > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:45

You completely missed the point myfriend. To level the playing field it means elevating certain classes of people so they can achieve success in areas dominated by one class.

mcseanerson > Sweet Trav
10/01/2014 at 19:47

Well then that is wrong. Elevating one class puts another at a disadvantage. Sad that I missed the point.

Gamecat235 > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:47

Kinja'd!!!

But, this is, by definition, what feminism is. It is seeking equality on the basis of gender. Period.

mcseanerson > Gamecat235
10/01/2014 at 19:48

Maybe we should be seeking equality on the basis of just being a human being and not car about any of the details.

Gamecat235 > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:50

That's the goal of a great many feminists, to expand the equality movement beyond the scope of just gender, but for everyone.

Xyl0c41n3 > Sweet Trav
10/01/2014 at 19:52

THANK YOU TRAVIS!!!!

mcseanerson > Gamecat235
10/01/2014 at 19:53

Then why call it feminism? Doesn't that make it sound a tad biased? The radical nut jobs aren't helping the cause either, although they never help any cause, unless your cause is for radical nut jobs.

yamahog > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 19:54

I have no desire to engage in this tirefire of a thread besides to respectfully point out that I'm pretty sure The Cigar Lounge was created specifically for this type of post.

mcseanerson > yamahog
10/01/2014 at 19:56

I don't even know what that is and glancing at the posts I don't think I want to know.

Gamecat235 > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 20:00

We're all radical nut jobs. Or at least I am. Also, names are just names.

I suppose I feel the way about names that I do because I don't identify with either agnosticism or atheism because both have an implied connotation of disbelief (it's a long story, but I truly don't care, I don't have strong feelings one way or another). Yet many people associate with the name that comes closest to representing what their belief structure is. All isms are social constructs. Period.

Sweet Trav > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 20:07

So you're posting this on a car website, so i can safely assume you're a fan of motorsport. In many forms of racing the fastest cars get weight added to their vehicles after a win, or a podium finish, what this does is over the course of the race season, provides a better product to the spectator.

Except the opposite has happened in life, we started equal and societal constructs have put differing amounts of weight penalties on every class except rich white men. White men get a little less than the rich white men, replace the word man with woman, and the sanctioning body might as well have regulated them to run down a piston from the block of their engine. if you aren't white, you can only race with three wheels.

Does that sound like a fair race to you?

The problem is we're mid way through the race season, try as hard as they want, the penalties accessed to the classes that aren't Rich White Men can't complete, though some have managed to lead a lap or two, as whole they're second tier racing. The problem is ratings are tanking, attitudes are shit, except for those rich white people. People are starting to scratch their heads and wonder why everyone else is so far behind. It should be clear that to make for a fair competitive race, one of two things needs to happen, we either need to fix the cars that have one wheel off or are missing a piston, or put weight restrictions on the fastest cars, while the first is most preferable, we're already midway through the season and we cant change the rule book. So the second option is what it will take for some competitive racing.

By elevating some, we are going to have weigh down some fast cars, but guess what? They're still fast cars, they'll still compete they just wont have a built in advantage anymore.

Sweet Trav > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 20:34

Life isn't a zero sum game pal, providing an advantage to one, does not invalidate the privileges of the other. For instance, your parents make a bazillion dollars a year, you still get perfect grades, it comes time for college.

Susie down the street does really well in school but both of her parents work for Walmart, they really aren't that smart, but have shown the importance of education to their daughter, she gets a full ride scholarship, while you even though you have the same grades and drive to learn get nothing, because you have the built in privilege of wealth.

tromoly > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 20:39

This picture says it all. If you don't know who she is, look her up.

Kinja'd!!!

mcseanerson > Sweet Trav
10/01/2014 at 21:44

I guess this explains why I like spec series so much. What happens to poor white men with all your advantages for those of other gender or ethnicity. Everyone gets elevated while they are held down by a system you think is helping.

Does this mean you think women should have separate classes in racing or be given faster cars with less restrictions because they can't cut it on their own?

deekster_caddy > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 22:22

There ARE too many "isms". Feminism, Racism, Religious Fanatacism... We are all going to hell.

I get your point. Unfortunately it's human nature to side with those in your own social group and not with those who aren't. And that creates many "isms". You need to find one of those planets that Dr. Who visits and live with a different race if you want to find something else. Power up the Tardis!

Goggles Pizzano > mcseanerson
10/01/2014 at 22:27

The portrayal of men in commercials over the last 5-10 years has been appalling. Seems almost every product that isn't marketed exclusively towards men, aims to sell to women with the phrase "If your Man Monkey can't fix it, this product can." with just enough humor involved to get away with it.

I've expressed this opinion to both men and women. Most women say, "Yes, but have you seen the way woman have been portrayed in the past". I guess two wrongs make a right.

6 years ago I was considering starting a website to build awareness. iamnotamonkey.com

I am not a monkey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mcseanerson > deekster_caddy
10/01/2014 at 23:37

Well I'm white and I spent 6 months at a school in East Cleveland and it was an enlightening experience.

mcseanerson > Goggles Pizzano
10/01/2014 at 23:39

That's the whole problem with a lot of people's approach to equality. There are no ends that justify the means. True good can only be accomplished through good works.

Dsscats > mcseanerson
10/02/2014 at 21:07

Welp, I'm going to get torn to shreds for this........

I agree that women absolutely 100% do deserve the exact same rights and social standing/rights as men, but.......

I think that there are tons of double standards and expectations for men too that just aren't brought up.

Dsscats > mcseanerson
10/02/2014 at 21:21

I don't think you are a sexist person, just that this post is badly written.

area man > Sweet Trav
10/02/2014 at 22:18

You are a breath of fresh air, man.

David Trethewey > Dsscats
10/04/2014 at 17:21

You mean like all these posts and articles here that are... in a parallel universe or something?

David Trethewey > mcseanerson
10/04/2014 at 17:24

You said "I'm all for equality as long as one side doesn't get put down at the expense of another" but then you go to define all attempts at equality as putting the other side down. You can't have it both ways.

David Trethewey > mcseanerson
10/04/2014 at 17:27

Why call it feminism? BECAUSE WOMEN ARE STILL AT A HUGE DISADVANTAGE!

David Trethewey > mcseanerson
10/04/2014 at 17:41

I made a very bad mistake. You were right. I didn't want to know

CJ > mcseanerson
10/04/2014 at 19:49

The problem is - what is the definition of success in this case? Female POTUS?

We can't pretend that there aren't differences though. That's where it gets convoluted and unproductive. We want the best people for a given job. Period. Everything else is window dressing.

All I can say is I treat the women in my life respectfully. It's all I can really do.

mcseanerson > CJ
10/04/2014 at 21:15

We could have a female POTUS and nobody would really care. I would even vote for one but not Palin or Clinton.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > mcseanerson
10/14/2014 at 10:42

Your post comes across as kinda "oh those crazy feminists, what will they think of next."

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Goggles Pizzano
10/14/2014 at 10:45

Grow up. "Man Monkeys" still make more money and get jobs easier than women, I think your ego should be fine. Women have to put up with so much crap that it is laughable that you are anything more than bemused at a portrayal of a man as less than the best.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Dsscats
10/14/2014 at 10:57

Man, can't we just stick with "women should be equal", with no buts? IT's not and equal/or situation, we can have both! Anytime anyone says "I think _____, but..." it's a way of derailing the conversation and talking about what they are interested in, as opposed to talking about the situation at hand.

mcseanerson > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again.
10/14/2014 at 11:39

My thoughts are more like "For something that promotes equality for all feminism leaves me at best feeling like I am an afterthought and at worst like I am supposed to be perceived as a villain just for being born a straight white male."