Need some car know how help fellow Oppos!

"Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom" (jeremyhampson) 01/23/2014 at 08:21 • Filed to: None

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Awesome picture of my Honda getting towed away after it busted an axle.

Anywho, I seem to have a very strange problem with my cooling system, I have an assumption as to what it may be, but I wanted more opinions.

So, after my vehicle gets warmed up to operating temperature, while I am driving everything seems perfectly fine, but if I am doing stop and go traffic (unavoidable in NoVA), I notice that the temperature gauge seems to go up a bit, sometimes fast sometimes not so fast. I don't usually notice it at a stop light, but if it's stop and go traffic like, you stop, 2 seconds later go, then stop again, it seems to heat up pretty quickly, any ideas as to what it could be?

And some quick technical background, I had the temperature sensor in the engine changed a while ago, and one time I noticed it was pinging red, pulled over, the radiator was pretty dry, put a bunch of coolant in it, and drove home. It didn't ping red again, nor since then, I check it regularly, at least once a week, and I lose next to no coolant. No idea where that phantom leak was, or whatever it could have been, seems to have disappeared. Also, I do not know when the timing belt/water pump was replaced, my odo says 207xxx, but with the title when I bought it, it was at 204xxx and the title said 210xxx, so it may quite possibly be far above 207xxx.

Like I said I have an assumption, that it could be an air pocket in the cooling system, which while sucks, I do plan on flushing the radiator, because I have a new thermostat along with housing to put in, and was going to flush the radiator while I was at it. Is there anything else it could be? And for future reference, is there a way to bleed out the radiator for air, if I don't want to flush the system?

thebigbossyboss > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 08:26

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I had a really small mystery coolant leak my buddy found by squeezing my coolant hoses. I didnt even have to replace the hose, I just added a pipe clamp because it was leaking where it met the engine block.

You might give squeezing your hoses a try. It only takes a minute or two.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > thebigbossyboss 01/23/2014 at 08:30

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Alrighty, I'll give that a try when I get home today.

When it comes down to it, since it is a Honda, I've been thinking about just replacing the radiator and all the hoses as well, I can get the rad and all accompanying hoses for less then 100 bucks before shipping, that's the thing I am still getting used to with a cheap car, I always think about how to repair something when, I really should just be replacing it, but it is always such a pain.

CalzoneGolem > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 08:30

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Have you ruled out the head gasket?

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 08:35

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Since it happens when you're stopped is there any chance its to do with the radiator fan. Probably wrong but just what my sleep deprived brain thought of.

thebigbossyboss > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 08:35

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Wow, that is quite cheap. Mind you the pipe clamp repair cost 75 cents.

erikgrad > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 08:37

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It could be a head gasket, crack in cylinder head or block, a failing water pump...but how often did you check the coolant before you originally realized it was dry? Perhaps you were driving around for a very long time with a slowly evaporating supply of coolant. I would check the hoses out, as thebigbossyboss sugggested, first, in a car of that vintage.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > erikgrad 01/23/2014 at 08:45

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Okay, I'll check out the hoses when I get home. But it just seemed so random because it was perfectly fine, even driving that morning and then all of a sudden, boom, red. And how would I be able to check for cracked block/head gasket, without taking it apart? There is no milky coolant, would a block test rule that out?

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > thebigbossyboss 01/23/2014 at 08:46

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Yeah, with the short term I'll probably do that. I'll probably end up just replacing everything because this is a car that was very poorly maintained, and I plan on driving it for a bit as my bad weather beater. Plus, the allure of super cheap parts sucks you in so bad that you don't want to get rid of the car, especially if you like it.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > CalzoneGolem 01/23/2014 at 08:48

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Not yet, it needs an oil change, so I've decided just to bring it to a shop that I trust and have them do it, and do a block test as well, the DIY tests of checking for milky coolant/losing coolant I did, and neither are there, but it still has that feeling of being, off, you know?

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 01/23/2014 at 08:50

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It's possible, but from what I've read on these cars is if you have the heat on high (which I usually do it's cold as balls here right now) the fans are on. Someone had posted on a site I read that if there is an air pocket stuck in the cooling system, it will hover around the temperature sensor and heat up, thus heating up the engine and possibly giving me a false positive for high heat.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 08:57

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Fair enough, was just a shot in the dark haha. Hope you get it worked out.

CalzoneGolem > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 08:57

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That coolant had to go somewhere.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 09:01

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Kinja'd

Nibbles > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 09:02

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My 900 had your exact symptoms and it turned out to be some blockage in the radiator.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > CalzoneGolem 01/23/2014 at 09:08

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Yeah, pulling together the facts, I would say the coolant got burnt up, I don't have any huge piles of whatever when I park, and if there was a hose leak it would be constant, I mean is there such a thing as a small head gasket leak? One that is barely noticeable?

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Nibbles 01/23/2014 at 09:08

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What did you do, just new radiator?

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 01/23/2014 at 09:08

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Hopefully it would be something as simple as the fan. How would I test it in a way to rule it out?

CalzoneGolem > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 09:10

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Yeah and you might have a leak that only appears when the system is under pressure.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > CalzoneGolem 01/23/2014 at 09:12

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You know, now that I am really thinking about it, if you have a head gasket leak, would you feel it when you put your car under a load, like flooring it for example? When I pop the clutch for those quick interstate entrances, I've noticed that there is a slight loss of power, don't know how to describe it, just one of those things I suppose that you just know, would that be a sign of a leaking head gasket?

Nibbles > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 09:13

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Yup. I found the issue by removing the petcock. The radiator was "full", so was the reservoir. I wanted to do a flush so I removed the petcock and nothing came out. Stuck my finger up in there and it was dry as a bone. Turned out that a good third of my radiator was clogged and not being used, leading to overheating if I was in stop and go traffic. Moving at a regular pace kept the temps down because there was still coolant flow somewhere

CalzoneGolem > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 09:13

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There would be some compression loss that would lead to loss of power.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 09:19

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I just idle the car til the fan starts (or doesnt), make sure its spinning freely I've once had one that activated okay but the electric motor was messed up causing resistance and making it run slow, those kinds of things are rare though. Then if the fan unit is okay you're looking at testing electrical connections with multimeter and looking for corrosion, I'm useless with electronics so I followed diagrams for that sort of stuff.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > CalzoneGolem 01/23/2014 at 09:19

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Okay, never really done a head gasket replacement, don't I have to take the head to a shop to check for it being warped and have them make it flat again along with a new gasket?

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Nibbles 01/23/2014 at 09:20

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Oh nice, I checked rockauto earlier today, and I can get a brand new radiator, and the hoses for less then 100 bucks before shipping, so I'm thinking I might just get a new radiator, it's cheaper time wise to just replace it.

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > CalzoneGolem 01/23/2014 at 09:22

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If it was the head gasket, a quick check of the dipstick would show milky brown. If the oil is clean, they are not mixing, and that's good news. When you had the sensor pulled, are you certain they refilled the system? It might not be a leak at all, if it didn't get the coolant in there to begin with.

CalzoneGolem > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 09:22

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You don't have to do that if your head isn't warped. If you haven't been driving around with it pegged it is probably not an issue. It is fairly easy to change in a I4

Nibbles > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 09:25

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Probably a good idea. With the miles you've got on the car do you know when the rad was replaced last?

Nibbles > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 09:26

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Probably a good idea. With the high mileage, do you know when the rad was replaced last?

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 01/23/2014 at 09:32

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Ah, alright, if it is electrical then corrosion is 100% the culprit, this vehicle was not taken care of so rust is rampant through it, about how long would it take for the fans to kick on though, if they even do? Peak operating temperature?

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > CalzoneGolem 01/23/2014 at 09:33

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Yeah, if it even goes above mid range I usually stop and try to cool it off and figure out why. You just take off the head, scrap off the gasket and pop on a new on right?

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Nibbles 01/23/2014 at 09:35

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There was literally no documentation with this car, I paid 850 dollars for it which is why replacing everything when I bought it wasn't that high of a priority, just a fix it as it goes beater. I have no idea when anything was done on it, I'm trying to fix up my 944, so money is tight on the car front, so unless there is something pressing that needs to be fixed or that I think should be fixed, I don't replace it on this Honda.

CalzoneGolem > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 09:39

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Pretty much.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 09:40

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It can vary from car to car and outside temp, but usually once its been idling a minute or so on the couple of cars I've looked at, giving it a little bit of revs can speed things up and if the fan doesn't kick in once its fully warmed and after some revs there's something wrong somewhere. But I'm no mechanic I just work on cars as a hobby and pick it up as I go so take out of this what you will haha. If the car does have some corrosion a quick visual check of connectors might be a good way to go, I live in the UK so every car I've worked on is corroded somewhere and it can wreak havoc with electrics.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > CalzoneGolem 01/23/2014 at 09:42

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Alright, well thanks man, a gasket only runs about 23 bucks, so even if it doesn't fix it thats one less thing to worry about

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 01/23/2014 at 09:43

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Same thing here, just a DIY mechanic, appreciate the tips, I'll probably take a look at it sometime today or this weekend, I have a new thermo and housing, so I'll probably just flush the rad, put that stuff on, and put in all new coolant, and check the fans and all that.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 09:45

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Cool, good luck.

LuczOr > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 11:09

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Your symptoms point pretty much exactly to fan clutch. Try that first since those things are dirt cheap and pretty easy to change.

JEM > Nibbles 01/23/2014 at 11:12

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I occasionally have this problem with my Jeep's 4.0L - I should definitely look into flushing the raditor, haven't done that since I bought it, thanks!

Nibbles > JEM 01/23/2014 at 11:38

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No problem! Some sort of blockage is usually the culprit for a heat issue that occurs in stop/go.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > LuczOr 01/23/2014 at 12:54

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Never even messed with a fan clutch before, where would that be?

LuczOr > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 13:50

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The cooling fan mounts right to it. That weird thing with all the fins. Like this.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > LuczOr 01/23/2014 at 13:55

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Ahh, alright, so just change the thing out? How could I test if it isn't working?

LuczOr > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/23/2014 at 14:08

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One way to do it is to drive the car till it's overheating. At that point, stop the car and shut off the engine. While the engine is overheated, you should not be able to turn the fan blades very easily by hand. You can test it before you drive it, when the car is cold to see how free the fan behaves when the engine is cold. If the fan behaves the same when the vehicle is cold and hot, then the clutch is toast.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > LuczOr 01/23/2014 at 14:12

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Ah, alright, thanks for the info. I've been mulling it around in my head to just replace pretty much the entire cooling system, I can get all the parts for less then 200, so I think I'm just going to start slowly replacing things, this weekend I'm going to be doing a thermostat swap, and a radiator flush, and then weekend after probably swap out the head gasket as well, parts for this car are dirt cheap, a brand new radiator costs me 36 dollars, so I've been thinking about just replacing stuff rather then spend a lot of time on it.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/24/2014 at 12:44

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.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 01/24/2014 at 12:45

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