![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:27 • Filed to: None | ![]() | ![]() |
I came across a user on Slashdot mentioning that in the UK he was instructed to place his vehicle in neutral and use his handbrake at every stop light. Also (while mentioning it may be an old fashioned concept) that they were supposed to use the handbrake at every point in a three-point turn. Someone from Ireland chimed in that he had also been taught that. In the US, we're uh...taught whatever whoever teaches us to drive stick thinks.
What about parking the car? Which is the proper way: in gear or in neutral? What do you do and why?
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:30 |
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In neutral, handbrake up. Just this day I switched on the ignition without my foot on the clutch (no car should be able to start without the clutch in, imo) and almost had an incident because I forgot that I had left the car in first.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:32 |
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At stoplights - only on very rare occasions like a long light on a steep hill.
Three point turns - never
Parking - usually in first gear and the handbrake up, only exception being at my house or something where it is completely flat, then I will just use the handbrake if I forget to put it in 1st
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:35 |
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I think putting the car in neutral at stop lights have something to do with the engine stop-go technology we see in new cars, just to make sure that people save fuel even if they know it or not. I would just use the regular brakes though. Parking brakes are for parking, and evading tricky situations (fun). If you have to use that for taking off, you're not a very efficient driver.
When I'm parking in a hill, I put the car in gear, have the parking brake on and turn the wheels all the way towards the curb. I want to find my car where I left it.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:37 |
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My instructor didn't teach me to use the handbrake that often, probably because the use of the handbrake is only useful at an incline (so you won't roll when pressing the clutch) and we don't have many inclines in the Netherlands. At traffic lights without an incline I tend put it in neutral.
I do park in gear, without the handbrake. Unless when there's an incline. You don't want to park with the handbrake engaged when it's literally freezing outside, as you might not be able to release the handbrake the next day.
I was taught the hill start in a manual though. It was one of the requirements to get a drivers license. Have the car in neutral, with the handbrake engaged. Keep the handbrake engaged while you put it in first. Use a little gas and release the clutch slightly until you feel the car pull slightly. Then release the handbrake gently.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:37 |
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Stop lights - steep hills only, but rarely even so.
Parking - I always leave a gear in, just to be sure. Even on very level places like a building's underground parking lot.
I noticed US Jalopnik FP'ers and Opponauts tend to always rev match and heel-toe downshift, even in traffic. At least most people who make sure to say they drive manuals say they do so.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:38 |
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Stoplights - in neutral, no handbrake unless I need to take my foot off the brake pedal for some reason (like trying to reach something in the back seat).
Three point turns - I seriously don't get this, why on earth would you use the handbrake?
Parking - in third gear with handbrake on. I know that it is recommended that you leave the car in first for better engine braking, but I have seen people get into a manual car, put the clutch in, start the car, and then drop the clutch without checking to see if the car is in gear. If the car is in first - it lurches forward and will likely hit something. If the car is in third, it just stalls. I don't let other people drive my car that often, but when I do, I don't want to worry about them having a brain fart on startup and wreck my car, hence third instead of first.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:42 |
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My guess is that neutral and clutch out is an attempt to prolong the life of the throwout bearing. In theory, it makes sense that the less time it spends spinning, the longer it will last. In practice, it'll last as long or longer than the clutch 99% of the time.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:44 |
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I noticed US Jalopnik FP'ers and Opponauts tend to always rev match and heel-toe downshift, even in traffic. At least most people who make sure to say they drive manuals say they do so.
LOL. I haven't actually seen THAT many people claim this, but I certainly get a good laugh out of it when I do.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:44 |
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Parking - in gear opposite of vehicle's slope (pointing downhill - R, uphill - 2nd), parking brake on.
3 point turns - I don't understand. You want me to depress the parking brake pedal and release at every point?
Stoplight - only if it is an excessively long light will I actually put the brake on, because it's a pain in the ass to reach for that little handle every goddamned time.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:45 |
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I always park in 1st gear (reverse if facing down a hill) and apply the handbrake. Always. It's a good habit to get in to.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:45 |
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I only use the handbrake when parked or when trying to make some skids.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:46 |
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Well, I've seen at least 80% of them claim this.
But when I read it, I imagine the guy from the " Shit E36 Guys Say ". I even tried rev matching on my DD. It's just pointless and stupid.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:46 |
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i always always stay in first on a stop light with the brakes on, because when im in front i like to test my reaction to the green lights
when im parked i always put hand brake, then release the clutch in 1st gear, that way automatically i do it if i park on a slope street, hanbrakes fail sometimes so putting your car in gear is a backup, but note, first you need to put handbrake and release the brake pedal, so the vehicle rests in the brakes and not the transmission
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:47 |
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For the rev matching and heel-toeing. It is something that I have started to do more of and now do it almost out of instinct. Why? Because racecar of course
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:48 |
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I handbrake at lights that are longer than 30 or so seconds. Park in gear, handbrake on. Whats a 3 point turn? Is that like a handbrake turn...but slower and less awesome?
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:49 |
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In South Africa if you pull the handbrake up and it makes the clicking noise, it's an automatic fail. Also we were always taught to keep the car in gear, but that was more so you could gun it if someone tries to hijack you.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:52 |
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But on a DD it's mostly pointless. A smooth gear change doesn't really require a rev match. And a nice stoplight downshift also doesn't require a heel and toe, as you don't have to floor your way out of a corner.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:58 |
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In Australia points are deducted during the driving test for rolling even slightly backwards, while this can be avoided by quickly balancing the clutch this is typically something your not yet licensed driver is bad at, using the hand brake in this moments is a commonly taught practice.
In the USA... I think the vast majority of people don't even know such a lever exists in the void between their seats.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 16:59 |
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re. in gear parking
Yes, in gear, always, with a forward or reverse gear chosen based on the direction of parking and the incline. Parking/Hand/Emergency brake always. And wheels turned to either activate steering lock or to ensure the car will roll (should it escape the brake and gear) into the place wher eit will cause the least damage
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:00 |
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re. differences, I know some folks think the H-pattern or pedals are in different orders in LHD vs RHD cars, not the case... usually, surely there are some odd ducks out there
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:03 |
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Not going to lie; I gave myself a pretty big pat on the back when I performed a nicely rev-matched downshift on the way home yesterday. Old pickups are kinda hard to get the match right.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:04 |
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I know. I don't do ALL the time just fairly frequently. I would say the only time it is needed for me on my daily drive is going down my parents hill. There is a large hill with a 90 degree turn so the heel toe downshift helps a lot to get me in the right gear and not wreak havoc on my pads every time I drive downtown
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:07 |
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Some old pickups still have the Semi-sync'd transmissions, don't they?
Anyway, yeah. It's awesome to master this technique and do it eventually like you do, mostly out of fun than actually to becauseracecar on a DD. But can someone reason to do it always? Like.. every single gearshift?
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:08 |
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I believe you. And it's sometimes very useful, especially on overtakes or hills like you mentioned, and it's great to do it. But that's less than 10% of most people's DD.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:08 |
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I noticed a few things in eastern europe when I visited last month.
First is that everyone freaking revs those tiny engines to the hills and back. Yes its a small fuel efficient engine, but freaking get out of 3rd gear on the highway. Put it in 5th or 6th if equipped and cruise. No need to scream at 4k or 5k on the motorway. Literally everyone did this. Drove me nuts, every-time someone else drove I kept remind them. Put it in 5th....
Secondly no one freaking puts the car in gear when parked. Wrong, double the security measure, often times this means your locking all 4 wheels.
Everyone keeps their feet off the pedals and in neutral at a stop light. Basically a free roll state. IF you get rear-ended you end up in incoming traffic. Great eh?
Proper etiquette when driving manual.
Rev only as much as you need to get to the power band and keep shifting to go faster, not revving to go faster. Pumping losses increase dramatically with higher rpm and fuel efficiency goes to hell. This is not a race.
Secondly, at a stop light your supposed to keep the car in gear with both feet on both the clutch and brake while the vehicle is in gear. This ensures that in the unlikely event you get rear ended your vehicle stalls and does not get slingshot and do more damage to others.
When parking, proper procedure is to clock the wheel in an opposite direction from the slope, in-case the vehicles parking brake and trans break the vehicle rolls out of the road and not into oncoming traffic. Also proper procedure is to use the parking brake and 1st gear or reverse the slope of the road if on an incline. If on flat ground, the wheel should be clocked towards the curb if there is one, or opposite the pedestrian walkway in-case there is an accident.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:09 |
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Yeah, the transmission is fully syncro'd (it's only a '95), but it still feels good to get it right. Torquey-ass V8 in a small truck, any amount of misstep makes the thing lurch violently, no matter how fast/slow you're going.
But no, everytime, no. Fuck that.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:15 |
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In my '96 Jeep I always blip the throttle when downshifting, to minimize the herky-jerky lurch thing.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:19 |
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I'm quickly learning to do so. Going from a 2.0 turbo 900 to a 5.2 Dakota honestly has had a bit of a learning curve. I've never owned so many cylinders!
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:20 |
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I guess they must rev the engine to its max on each shift. In normal driving, there is no need to rev match.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:32 |
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I pretty much always rev-match my downshifts...If I happen to downshift while braking, it's heel-toe. I also tend to double-clutch my rev-matches. I'm sure you're going to tell me that's not necessary with modern cars, but it's not exactly necessary to change my own gears in modern cars either.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:34 |
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I only ever use the handbrake if I'm parking on a steep enough hill. Otherwise, I just leave the vehicle in gear when parked.
Mostly this comes from having several vehicles where the parking brake would be frozen up in winter when you leave the car overnight with it on. Also, I feel like parking brakes are one of the weakest, most failure prone things on modern cars. Always seem to be breaking either the cables or the caliper mechanism thing sticking or something. As a result, I try not to use mine whenever possible.
At a light, I know the proper thing to do is leave it in gear with the clutch in but I rarely do that. I almost always pop it in neutral with the clutch out. Heck, sometimes I like to live on the wild side and take my foot off the brake too!
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:37 |
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Heh, that was me going from my V6, 6 speed Tiburon to my '96 5 speed Cherokee.
Night and friggin' day. That I had a short shift kit on the Tiburon didn't help any either.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:38 |
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I usually just do both...leave the car in 1st and pull the handbrake. Sometimes I forget the handbrake bit, but it's never been a problem. (although my old Hyundai used to creep down steep hills if only in gear).
I also don't like to sit with the clutch in for extended periods of time....if I'm coasting for more than a few seconds or sitting at a light I'm generally in neutral. Seems like a pain to use the handbrake at every light...I just use it as my 'parking-and-occasionally-hooning' lever.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 17:45 |
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In the Netherlands you learn to put the car on the handbrake in gear at the traffic light. In Norway there is no such thing.
Also I think parking in the Netherlands is in neutral, in Norway it is in gear, because 'mountains'.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 18:02 |
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If that is what you find fun, then more power to you, I did not mean to indicate there is anything wrong with that. The only reason that I drive stick is because I find it to be more fun, and I am in no position to judge anyone else for driving the way that they find fun. What I was reacting to was people on here that make a point to talk about heel-toeing and rev-matching in a way that seems obvious that they are trying to somehow prove that they are more jalop than everyone else.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 18:27 |
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I've always questioned the "leave your car in gear at a stop light thing". Why is it any less safe for me to be in neutral with my foot on the brake, than for the 95% of drivers with automatics in gear and a foot on the brake? Surely the auto transmissions would continue to roll the car through the intersection?
Also, while accelerating, I do enjoy to constantly make use of my full rev range. I am the guy who will take each gear to the red line while getting on the highway. I do however shift to the highest available gear once I reach my desired speed.
![]() 09/24/2013 at 19:51 |
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Yep. Can't have another reason besides that one.
I imagine these guys driving at a constant 5k rpm in second because race car, and because speed limit.
![]() 09/25/2013 at 00:12 |
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I just started driving manual this year and I have a question about parking in gear. Is there a difference between clutch-in, 1st gear, parking brake, then shut the car off, to shutting the car off in neutral and putting it in gear after the fact?
![]() 09/25/2013 at 02:51 |
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there is no difference, the important thing is not to put stress on the transmission, like parking on a steep hill, you press clutch pedal, put hand brake, release brake pedal, and release clutch in gear(if handbrake fails the gear keep your car in place)
![]() 09/25/2013 at 08:55 |
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I always go to neutral a lights, but leave it in gear at stop signs and absolutely when parking.
I try to rev match, but have not learned heel toe, and it would be no fun doing it on my commute. Someday on the back roads, perhaps.
![]() 09/25/2013 at 08:56 |
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The 96 Cherokee is the fucking bomb with the 4.0L/5speed combo.
![]() 09/25/2013 at 16:11 |
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US driver here, I taught myself how to drive manual, around 5 years after learning to drive in an automatic car.
Handbrake only comes on when I park. My car has a hill holder. Some people think it's annoying, but it does mean that I don't need the handbrake on hills.
At first I usually parked in gear, but I've since gotten out of that habit due to laziness, I think.
I rev match my downshifts, I don't heel-toe.
When I'm slowing down, I downshift to keep the transmission in an appropriate gear for my speed, but I hold the clutch in the whole time. Once I stop, I leave it in neutral until I think I'll be able to go soon.
![]() 09/26/2013 at 03:34 |
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If you want to test your reaction time isn't it better to leave it in neutral while the light's red and see how quickly you can clutch in and put it in gear?
![]() 09/26/2013 at 07:29 |
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thats not how its done on the dragstrip