Street Racing: What do you think?

"terrunt" (terrunt) 09/15/2013 at 22:19 • Filed to: None

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Okay, I can tell from the outset that this is going to be one of those posts where you either say "What is this guy on?" or "Yeah, he's got that right". Let's find out.

Street racing is the vice of 18 year olds everywhere. Let's face it, when you first got your licence, who didn't push their luck a little on that dark 2 lane road with no traffic? I certainly did. And my car was an Alfa 156, meaning I had a significant chance of the thing falling apart before I hit 100mph. (Obviously I never sped Mr. Officer, and I was always mindful of the limit yada yada yada).

As The Fast and The Furious franchise has proven, racing, and more specifically Japanese Imports, have become hugely popular within the modification scene. That isn't to say that other nationalities aren't fairly represented, but I had to pick one, and Civics and 240s are where it's at when you still can't grow a beard.

"V-TEC just kicked in yo" etc...

The argument is not whether modifying your car is a good idea, or whether it isn't.

The argument is whether racing on the public streets is a bad idea. Obviously I'm not speaking of doing 150mph+ through rush hour traffic, and I know this debate was broached when Afroduck was recently arrested/ shared on the Jalopnik main page.

Now, near to where I live (read at the end of my street) there's a road numbered/lettered the A666 (confidence inspiring, I know). If I turn left and drive along it for 2 minutes I end up on a 50MPH posted road, surrounded by nothing but fields and dry stone walls. It's really pretty, but at night also really quiet.

Now, this road has only minor streetlights for the first 0.5 miles approx. I grew up in this town, with this road, and my grandparents live the other side of this road. I have travelled it maybe 5,000 times.

That suggests to me that I know the layout of the road, and so on. Because of that, I would assume that I know the road reasonably well, and in saying that I would also say that the 50MPH speed limit is overly cautious. I can take this road at approx. 100mph. Again, I'm not saying I would but it is possible to do so, with even a rudimentary knowledge of the layout.

It may seem that I have digressed and I have, but there's a point.

And my point is this: For every teenager in his Civic taking reckless risks, there's a hard working, responsible man or woman that puts genuine love and care into modifying their car and running it in an environment they know, and within safe limits.

These are people that have not been driving for 5 minutes, but for a number of years, and because they push it on back roads and roads that are perfectly straight with zero traffic with a couple of their friends they are apparently Satan.

That doesn't make them unsafe, or irresponsible. Despite what the mass media tries to peddle. (This was displayed on Jalop a few days ago with the Canadian speed limit video so I won't get into it)

What it says is that given the road conditions and traffic levels they have made a responsible decision to hit the gas and pick their speed up. Again, sight lines permitting it is not necessarily unsafe. The unsafe part comes when you have an inexperienced driver make a bad call, when they don't have enough information to make a decision.

With that in mind, having a 4 lane highways and a number of modified cars is not an unsafe proposition. A modified vehicle can stick to the speed limit just like Grandma's Buick. All it takes is an awareness of the vehicle.

So, with that in mind, what's the issue with doing 100mph on a deserted highway, after evaluating road conditions and sightlines etc.?

Then we evaluate main streets. Again, if the road is properly evaluated and sealed, what's the issue? By sealed I'm talking vehicles part across the entries of cross-streets, so that no vehicles can pull into the lanes of traffic.

Street racing is not dangerous in my mind, it's the poor decisions of inexperienced drivers that are the danger.

Let me know what you think.

For Sweden > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:22

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If the road is not closed for the purpose of your race, don't race.

Clown Shoe Pilot > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:25

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race tracks exist. use them.

delete-me-please123 > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:25

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Just wow. I can't even.. where to start? Huh. Maybe I could give it a shot if I wasn't on my phone.
I'll just step out of the way for now. Good luck dude.

PowderHound > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:25

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I enjoy spirited driving.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:27

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I'm not proud, but I've done the stoplight to stoplight. Tracks exist, use them. Even if you know the road and your car, any little thing could happen at any moment causing big problems. Tracks have emergency crews and measures for these events, your local street does not.

GhostZ > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:28

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I've written and studied this extensively (and even wrote some papers on it for college) and you are completely right in the way that only someone who actually knows what's going on can be.

From an economic standpoint, I believe that street racing has less social harm than the vast majority of legalized forms of entertainment, and the numbers seem to point that way.

But despite that, people's emotions and ignorance get in the way of their rational thinking, and they will continue to be complete hypocrites in their condemnation of street racing, just because the heavily lobbied, poorly enforced, and equally-ignorant state law agrees with them.

It's very hard to ask people to wrap their heads around this concept because most people look at the world in a matter of right and wrong . The world is way more complex than that, and one man's "correctness" is the ruining of another man's life. Things make a lot more sense when you think about the actual events happening, not the fiction that has been built around it.

Anon > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:30

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What you do on public roads, politics, and religion. Those are the three things you should never bring up on oppo.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:32

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"Street racing is not dangerous in my mind, it's the poor decisions of inexperienced drivers that are the danger."

What about the poor soul who turns onto a road not expecting somebody to be coming up behind them at 80mp?

terrunt > For Sweden 09/15/2013 at 22:34

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I agree, but that's assuming there's a racetrack nearby. Sometimes the only way to cut loose is to do these things. Don't get me wrong, I'm advocating nothing here, I'm presenting my personal opinion, but if there was a number of racetracks (or even one) close to me, I'd use that.

terrunt > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 09/15/2013 at 22:37

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3rd to last paragraph.

GhostZ > delete-me-please123 09/15/2013 at 22:38

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Are you actually surprised by this article, or are you just baiting support?

For Sweden > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:38

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The "no racetrack nearby" argument is idiotic, and I'll give an example why. Imagine you're a gun enthusiast, not a car enthusiast. You really want to go shooting, but you don't own a large enough piece of property to do so and there isn't a gun range nearby. That does NOT give you a pass to set your targets up in a public place and shoot there, no matter how good of a marksman you are.

terrunt > For Sweden 09/15/2013 at 22:41

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The difference being that I'd assume a gun range would be within an hour or two in a country which supports gun ownership. The UK does not, neither does it support spirited driving. And I mean that in every sense of the word. Plus, I'm not talking about the middle of rush hour, I'm talking about night, when the public place would be deserted. Also, if there was a person in the way then in a car you would at least have a chance to stop/ move out of the way. With a gun, once the bullet leaves the chamber that's it.

For Sweden > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:43

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So would you say target shooting in a public thoroughfare is OK as long as it's dark and not a lot of people are around?

terrunt > For Sweden 09/15/2013 at 22:46

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I would say that target shooting in a public place is perfectly acceptable, providing that nobody could walk into the crossfire. Therefore, all avenues of approach from crosswalks/ streets should be sealed and by doing that and working upon a reasonable mindset, they should be sealed along the reasonable area of danger.

D > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:46

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Driving spiritedly is one thing, but competing on public roads is another. Only the latter is street racing IMO.

GhostZ > For Sweden 09/15/2013 at 22:46

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What's a "pass"? You're describing it as if you'll explode if you do something illegal or against the law.

Anyone can shoot targets in a public place. It just takes a gun and a hand to pull the trigger, and maybe a few targets. There is no such thing as a "pass" to do it. The only reason people don't do it is because of the cost and benefit associated with it. You can't say what is "allowed" or "not allowed" on society, only what is possible and what will happen if it does. That's why you don't explode out of existence when you jaywalk.

You can still make a point, but if "thare are no racetracks nearby" doesn't hold, then "well you aren't allowed to do this so you can't" doesn't hold as a counter argument either.

MonkeePuzzle > For Sweden 09/15/2013 at 22:46

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it DOES give you a pass to get a BB gun and setup a range in your basement. See also, get a slot car track?

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:47

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EDIT: I hate to be one of those dicks who shares their own posts, but...

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy an off the line sprint at red lights, but I don't take it very far past the speed limit.

But shutting down a street is a pretty dickish move. Even in the most remote parts of town, emergency vehicles may still need to get through, especially if the hormonal teens in Hondas wreck (and depending where you are, animals may cross). But I guess if that happens everybody will bail, including the road block/lookout cars.

Just save it for the strip. It's really not that expensive and you get a real tree and actual calculated times. Plus it's legal.

Montalvo > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:47

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Street racing is inherently dangerous and wrong. Going over the speed limit on a highway I have no issue with, but when you are racing someone you have your concentration distracted on something other than driving. Unless the road is actually closed off by officials with the permission of the town or city, or it is a track, YOU DO NOT RACE. It is plain and god damn simple. I don't give a crap if the car is a POS or if it is modified by the greatest tuners on earth. Things go wrong and accidents will happen regardless of how safe or reliable you think something is. When things go wrong they go REALLY wrong while racing and more often then not some innocent bystander or motorist ends up paying the price for someone's disregard for others on the road. You may or may not think street racing is a big deal but you better thank whatever higher being you worship that you never get the news oh hey yeah you know "insert friend's name" he got killed because two punks were dragging on such and such street. It is fine to go 15 over the limit on a road you know on a clear sunny day but I wont tolerate the morons doing the same in a school zone. Keep you foot in line, if you can't hold back from racing at the lights or you try to get someone to race you, you are not fit to have the keys to a car.

D > Anon 09/15/2013 at 22:48

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The three great taboos! Everyone has toyed around on the street but no one wants to admit it.

desertdog5051 > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:48

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We are all guilty of some form of it. When I travel for business and am passing 2 semi's, it feels good to go over a hundred MPH. Then you go, this road is deserted and I'm fricking flying, so you keep it up for a half mile or so to see what speed you eventually will hit. Yes, I am guilty of it as would be most people if they lived in a deserted state.

MonkeePuzzle > For Sweden 09/15/2013 at 22:48

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is the street racers closing the road "find another way pizza boy" sufficient?

For Sweden > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:49

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And if you sealed off the area of the target shooting, that's analogous to closing the road. If you close the road for your race, go for it. Unless you illegally closed the road, then you're a douche.

For Sweden > GhostZ 09/15/2013 at 22:49

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"Pass" means morally, not legally.

For Sweden > MonkeePuzzle 09/15/2013 at 22:50

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Now that's just crazy talk.

D > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 09/15/2013 at 22:50

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forsweden'd

MonkeePuzzle > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:51

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I drive a fairly ricey Civic, but I've never, and will never street race it. Because ricecar, not because racecar. Its not safe, for me, other racers or other drivers. End of story.

For Sweden > MonkeePuzzle 09/15/2013 at 22:51

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No. I want my pizza dammit.

GhostZ > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 09/15/2013 at 22:52

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The question is not "what about the poor soul..." but what the question should be if you were a rational human being... is "what would it cost to save that poor soul, and what good would he do the world for the extra time he was alive?"

terrunt > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 09/15/2013 at 22:53

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Sure, I'll agree with the Emergency vehicle part. But like I said, that's a reasonable decision to make for a reasonable person.

The reason I made this post is that in the UK race tracks aren't that prevalent, and somethimes this can be the only way to cut loose. Although if I spotted an ambulance I'd move for sure. If I spotted a cop car I'd hustle.

Again though, I do understand what you're saying, and given the choice the track would win hands down.

GhostZ > For Sweden 09/15/2013 at 22:54

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What morals?

What would you say if I told you that every victim of street racing was a racist murdering nazi? Would it change your stance on it?

My point is that you should be asking questions and evaluating it from the social situation that morals come from rather than from the morals themselves.

Dusty Ventures > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:54

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The problem with closing a road is it's a major inconvenience and even potential danger to people who need to use said road. Inconvenience for anyone who lives or needs to go to a building on the closed section of road, or someone from out of town who, because the one route they know is blocked by the street race, gets lost. Dangerous if an ambulance or fire truck heading to an emergency finds their route obstructed.

I realize this is a bit ironic coming from me, since I regularly race on closed public roads, and have competed in the " rally of 1000 mailboxes. " But in my case the community is aware months in advance. The townspeople first vote whether they're willing to approve the event, then vote a second time on the route and the roads it will close. Every single building on every single closed road gets a notice delivered to their door more than a month before the race to let them know the exact dates and times the road will be closed. All the area emergency services are informed so they know what roads to take and what to avoid. A good mile of banner tape is used, along with dozens of detour signs to ensure people who are unaware/not from the area are routed around the closed roads safely and no one accidentally drives onto the course. The race also comes with $5,000,000 in third party insurance coverage, just in case. Even with all this we still run into problems (we had to cancel a stage because someone decided to wash their car in the street and refused to move). None of those precautions can really be taken for an illegal street race.

terrunt > For Sweden 09/15/2013 at 22:54

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I'll admit, closing the road is a dick move. However, closing a rarely used road in the hills somewhere is not. Remaining in constant contact is another way to avoid problems with traffic i.e. walkie talkies. I did state that sealing the road was part of it.

For Sweden > GhostZ 09/15/2013 at 22:55

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I would tell you your example is ridiculous and congratulate you on adhering to Godwin's law.

For Sweden > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:56

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If it's a rarely used road, you can probably get a permit. Talk to the local sheriff's department, bring them some lunch, make some connections.

If you can't get a permit, look elsewhere. Perhaps a track.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 22:58

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http://www.trackdays.co.uk/tracks/

The UK is a small country, you can reach most places in a few hours by car. There are plenty of tracks there that do track days. Do not street race. Here is a list of them.

terrunt > Montalvo 09/15/2013 at 22:58

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You're working on the assumption that I'm saying "hell, it's 11:30 AM, sure, go race down main street."

I am not. Not even a little bit. With adequate precautions taken it's no more dangerous than doing 10-15 mph on the highway.

Sure, you wreck your car, it's your fault. If you're a bystander, you know the risks. I'm talking about late at night, out of town.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > GhostZ 09/15/2013 at 22:58

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?

GhostZ > For Sweden 09/15/2013 at 22:59

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So just because an example is "ridiculous" you won't even consider it?

My point is that you should be asking questions and evaluating it from the social situation that morals come from rather than from the morals themselves.

Or, as in how you responded to me, I could rephrase that as:

My point is that you should be asking questions and evaluating it from the social situation that "ridiculousness" comes from rather than from the amount of "ridiculousness" itself.

terrunt > Dusty Ventures 09/15/2013 at 23:00

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Sure, I understand what you're saying.

Like I said though, I'm talking about a road out of town, and if you've got the nous to stay out of town, if you're hearing sirens you're hustling. Therefore there's no emergency service issue.

I'm also talking about late night, negating the lost individual problems.

GhostZ > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 09/15/2013 at 23:01

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You can't decide what is good or bad for society until you know hte costs and benefits of each situation, regardless of how much 'squickiness' there is in loss of life. People die, whether its from street racing or smoking.

The correct answer to your question is "need more information, what would it cost to save that poor soul, and what good would he do for the world for the extra time he was alive?"

For Sweden > GhostZ 09/15/2013 at 23:01

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Yes, I won't consider it. This isn't undergrad philosophy class.

GhostZ > Montalvo 09/15/2013 at 23:02

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Street racing is inherently dangerous and wrong.

By definition, everything is inherently dangerous and nothing is inherently wrong.

Bandit > desertdog5051 09/15/2013 at 23:04

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Guilty as well. I can't say no to the occasional deserted 1/4th mile long country road in the middle of nowhere.

YSI-what can brown do for you > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:05

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Have you looked into autocross? It is cheap, not hard on the car at all, and a ton of fun. . . oh did I mention legal? They are so prevelant in the US that I have an event a week. I don't go every week, but they still happen.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > GhostZ 09/15/2013 at 23:06

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But somebody getting rear ended, t-boned, sideswiped, run off the road... is completely avoidable by simply not street racing. It's not the old runaway train analogy they bring up in every ethics discussion.

terrunt > YSI-what can brown do for you 09/15/2013 at 23:07

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I'm not from the US unfortunately. Colour < see? Haha.

Although, yeah, if there was a track near me then it'd by far and away beat street racing.

I'm also not saying I do that though. I drive spiritedly, but that's about it.

Bonhomme7h > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:08

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I hate these redneck country kid VS bland urban nanny arguments. Whatever is the subject, you always have an impression of déja vu.

terrunt > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 09/15/2013 at 23:08

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Yeah, it's completely avoidable.

No-one ever got rear-ended, t-boned, swideswiped or run off the road by someone who wasn't street racing...

bhardoin > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:11

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I think as long as there is NO possible way you'll do harm to any bystander, you're ok. You're making a good decision - street racing is incredibly dangerous because streets lack the safety measures that make race tracks (relatively) safe - but if you're only putting yourself in danger, that's your business and not mine.

But, because there aren't too many scenarios where you can ensure that you're keeping other's out of harm's or inconvenience's way, I think about 99% of the time street racing ends up being reckless and dickish.

terrunt > For Sweden 09/15/2013 at 23:11

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I'm UK, and the road in question isn't handled by our county police. (We don't have local sheriff type cops). The road is handled by the Highway Patrol that simply don't want to know. The good thing about it is that it's a twin lane country road, that's sealed for around 3 miles, meaning it's easy to ascertain there's no traffic. And that's without cars stationed at cross-streets. One end is a t-junction on a country road, the other is a cross-roads about a mile outside a village.

GhostZ > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 09/15/2013 at 23:11

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And the extinction of some birds is completely avoidable by caging all of their predators.

What is your point? You still need more information to answer the question of whether street racing is good or bad for people.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > GhostZ 09/15/2013 at 23:11

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Beastiality is inherently wrong.

YSI-what can brown do for you > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:12

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I drive in a spirited manor too. If I am at an intersect and no one is there, I generally give the car a bit more gas to get the tail out. Like today when it was wet, but never when anyone is in close proximity.

Autocrossing isn't really about tracks, it is more like this . It is less about going fast and more about technical driving, and usually takes place in empty parking lots. See if you can find events. I am not very good, but then again I just started.

For Sweden > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:12

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You're in the UK?

Dude, just do rallycross.

Montalvo > GhostZ 09/15/2013 at 23:12

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Street racing on an open road where there are other people unaware of what is happening is wrong. Nothing you can say would allow it to be okay. If someone got hurt or killed, then how would you describe it? At least on a track there is personnel there specifically for in case things go wrong. If something went wrong off a track its your fault that you don't have the self control to act responsibly.

terrunt > YSI-what can brown do for you 09/15/2013 at 23:13

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Unfortunately, the UK seems very... anti-drivers. The car is touted as a machine, nothing more, meaning events as simple as a car-meet can be a pita to organise as most businesses don't seem to want to know.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:14

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Don't be ignorant. Street racing increases those risks dramatically. Just because you can get into an accident in many ways doesn't mean you get a free pass to consciously choose to add to the problem. When dangers are lurking everywhere you don't throw in the towel and submit, you be more cautious, not more reckless. It's like saying there's already a bunch of drunks on the road on NYE, so what's one more?

Dusty Ventures > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:14

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I don't know how it is in the U.K, where I assume you're from, but often times in the states emergency vehicles only hit the siren when approaching intersections, the rest of the time they're lights only. Also depending on the number of participants even if the emergency vehicle is running the siren the road might not be completely clear by the time the vehicle arrives. Delay the fire truck by just a minute or two and that could be someone's house. Also I don't know what things are like there, but around here typically if you're in the empty areas outside of town there's only one way from point A to point B, unless you're willing to add an extra 10-30 miles to the trip.

And around here late night out-of-area travelers are not at all uncommon, especially in the summer months when road trips to visit family are more prevalent. It's not like the U.K. where you can do the entire island in a day. Out here you can leave home at 10 AM and still not arrive at Uncle Art's farm until 1 AM (speaking from experience). And with the aforementioned greater distance between roads that increases the likelihood that said out-of-towners do truly only know the one way to their destination.

Victorious Secret > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:15

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If you don't have a track nearby or can't afford to use a track, don't.

End of discussion. Game over. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. Do not get a blowjob from Kate Beckinsale.

Are you serious with this?

If the cops sanction a closed road for racing, go for it. Insurance is waived, liability is on owners (just like at a track), that is a legal way of doing it. Closing off a road on your own or simply using a public stretch of land?

With no due respect, I hope you crash and die so we have one less moron on the roads. I have no sympathy for anyone who races on a public street for any reason.

I have 2 tracks nearby. I couldn't always afford to go to them, that didn't give me some right to act like a dumbass on the public roads.

I saved up, went once, then realized not only had I gotten it out of my system but now I had no real need to do it again. I could if I wanted to, and I have a few times, but thats it. I'm done. Its gone. I'm not a racer, I'll go for fun if a group wants to, I don't need it anymore. Thats how a majority of the population is when it comes to racing.

YSI-what can brown do for you > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:15

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That's a shame because in America there are usually tons. Like Cars and Coffee and such. I always though of the Europeans as more knowledgeable about cars(the general public that is, not the car guys), so I assumed car related events were more prevalent.

terrunt > bhardoin 09/15/2013 at 23:15

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That's why I'm a big fan of ensuring that the cross-streets are blocked off. Just so no traffic can turn into your path unwittingly. Also, bystanders know what they're getting into. Just means that if someone willingly places themselves into a dangerous situation, they share the blame. Like, tonight, it's raining heavily. I would not consider this a night for going too quickly, organised or not organised.

GhostZ > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/15/2013 at 23:15

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Its a slippery slope.

"Bestiality, not even once."

Victorious Secret > For Sweden 09/15/2013 at 23:16

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TIL that street racing isn't dangerous to someone.

Jesus fucking christ.

Lines even I wouldn't dream of crossing.

Agreed on all of your points.

terrunt > Bonhomme7h 09/15/2013 at 23:16

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Could you elaborate? Haha.

GhostZ > Montalvo 09/15/2013 at 23:16

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I'm asking what you mean by "wrong". Legally? By some group of morals you've chosen? Or by some other standard? I need more information.

You're presenting risk factors, but nothing that makes it impossible to do (given that there are just as many ways to reduce risk as there are to increase it).

terrunt > YSI-what can brown do for you 09/15/2013 at 23:17

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There are a number of car meets, they're just usually a considerable amount south of me. London has quite a big car scene.

Victorious Secret > Clown Shoe Pilot 09/15/2013 at 23:17

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Race tracks are also a safe way to get it out of your system. Most people I know went once, had their fun and haven't been compelled to go again.

Montalvo > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:17

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And you are making the assumption that the road is guaranteed to be empty. It may be empty 99.9% of the time but what happens on that .1% when the shit hits the fan? The world is unpredictable and it just so happens that things can happen in the worst ways. If you have to race take it to the track that is all. If you are at least driving by yourself you are focused on only what you are doing. Adding another person and both of you wanting to go to the same place as fast as possible creates a greater chance for something to go wrong.

terrunt > Victorious Secret 09/15/2013 at 23:18

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I didn't say at any point that I race on public streets...

I have never raced on public streets.

Therefore, I feel the crash and die comment was a little uncalled for.

YSI-what can brown do for you > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:18

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You do seem to have some epic races though. The closest race track(with actual races) to me is Road America at 5 hours away and Indy 500. . . which there are no event that interest me.

terrunt > YSI-what can brown do for you 09/15/2013 at 23:19

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I think that's more to do with the small size of the UK, rather than race friendliness though haha.

Leadbull > GhostZ 09/15/2013 at 23:20

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Shakespeare didn't know what street racing was when he wrote that nothing was inherently good or bad.

YSI-what can brown do for you > desertdog5051 09/15/2013 at 23:21

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I have to slide the car around a little bit. Particularly when it is wet, like today.

But seriously, who hasn't done some "dangerous" things. I try to do it with no one around me. So if I do crash, I am the only one that gets hurt.

terrunt > Dusty Ventures 09/15/2013 at 23:22

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Ours only hit the sirens when at intersections during late night, but they also run loud on unlit roads. Plus the road I'm talking about is right in the middle of the border for two counties, thus negating the need for them to get around. It also reduces the likelihood of a fire etc happening.

YSI-what can brown do for you > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:22

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Yeah I guess so, but sometimes I wish I lived in a smaller country because 1/2 the amazing car things that happen in the US are a 4 hour plane ride away from me

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > GhostZ 09/15/2013 at 23:22

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Caging predators is different. That's nature taking its course. You could be all pessimistic about it and say street racing is nature's way of weeding out from the human species the reckless drivers and careless people who didn't look twice and got in their way. But people are a different kind of animal. We can chose to preserve or destroy.

Why knowingly take life threatening risks? You don't HAVE to street race. Tell me, what is good about street racing that can't be had at a drag strip?

terrunt > Leadbull 09/15/2013 at 23:22

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Woulda been kinda cool if they were drag-racing horses though...

Victorious Secret > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:23

2

No, but your ENTIRE post stinks of someone who thinks street racing is a tolerable thing in any capacity, and I'm breaking the 4th wall. That post is for anyone who thinks its ever a good idea.

I have mourned for one killed at the hands of fucking retards who thought it was okay to have a little fun on a public road. I however have no problem pissing on the graves of those responsible.

Humans make mistakes, street racing however is a willing mistake. No one accidentally street races. No one accidentally speeds on public roads in such a manner. No one accidentally lines up at a red line because they think its cool or for some reason they deserve it because its okay.

Montalvo > GhostZ 09/15/2013 at 23:23

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Wrong in both a legal and moral sense. If the city and emergency services were advised and the proper steps were taken to isolate the road to solely those racing then there would be no issue. The problem happens when someone who is a racer or just an unknowing victim gets hurt. At least on a track they are trained to respond quickly because they know something bad can happen and it will be in this specific area. Taking it outside of the track means you are depending on responders who don't know what is going on and they have no idea where the trouble may come from. There is no getting away from the fact that you are driving a 2 ton hunk of steel at a decent clip in a manner that is far from the norm. If you think it is okay to roll the dice for someone else you are really messed up.

VeeArrrSix now powered by FA20F > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:24

1

Jorts. Why am I surprised?

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:25

2

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:26

1

Streets are for commuting. Racetracks are for racing. Both are there for a purpose. Switching them will only lead to tears even if you're Ayrton Bloody Senna.

GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:26

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"A modified vehicle can stick to the speed limit just like Grandma's Buick. All it takes is an awareness of the vehicle."

No it takes an awareness by the driver. I think there is an important distinction between taking a spirited drive and pushing the car when it is safe to do so and street racing. I think street racing implies that you are racing another vehicle, or acting in some competitive manner, and that's where things go wrong. People hate to lose and sometimes will do incredibly foolish things to win and on the street with 2 ton cars traveling at a high rate of speed is a recipe for disaster.

TLDR: Taking a spirited drive is okay, actually racing on public roads is incredibly stupid/unsafe.

terrunt > Victorious Secret 09/15/2013 at 23:26

1

And I'm truly sorry that you went through that. It was not my intention to offend anyone like that.

I'll be the first to admit that it's an unsafe activity. However there are ways to make it safer such as blocking and only rolling on roads that have zero intersecting streets, and are also in the country, meaning you can be aware of any traffic on the road at all times. You also are then only putting yourself and the other racer in danger, thereby making you responsible for your own outcome. If I was to do that and die, I'd only have myself to blame. I won't hide behind someone else.

Leadbull > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:27

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I don't drive at high speed or take corners vigorously unless I have a clear line of sight up ahead/through the corner and KNOW FOR SURE that no cars are around. So no speeding at night. And no speeding excessively on populated roads (but you noted that in your post).

Just don't be stupid about back roads driving; no amount of caution is enough. Driving 100mph on a not-dead-straight road at night doesn't sound too smart or cautious...

terrunt > GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo 09/15/2013 at 23:28

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Sorry, I should have clarified that. That is what I meant.

True, but in that situation you should be aware of the potential outcome being personal injury/ death.

GhostZ > Montalvo 09/15/2013 at 23:28

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Which morals? And how are these morals enforced? Be more specific, you still need more info to answer whether or not street racing is bad. You can say it's against your specific morals, that's fine, but we need more criteria to decide whether or not its bad.

Unless you mean to say that anything (murder?) is okay as long as city and emergency services were advised and the proper steps were taken to isolate the area to solely that event.

xxstich666xx > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:28

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This is the end of the Southern State Parkway here on Long Island. It's flat, it's fenced up so there is very little chance of deer and pedestrians and absolutely ZERO traffic going north and most importantly, it's 2 lanes wide with a huge albeit young tree filled median. From the first onramp to the first offramp it is exactly 1 mile. I've been racing here for the past 5 years and I've never had anything resembling a close call. The only reason I ever race here is because the only track open to the public is just under 90 miles away through NYC traffic all the way to Englishtown, NJ.

Leadbull > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:28

1

Yes, especially with carriages.

Bonhomme7h > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:29

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I have made my point, the base of these quarrel always seem to be a difference in the culture you are grow up into. Whatever argument you may point up, I wish you good luck to make it accept to a party who have little practical understanding of where you come from.

terrunt > Leadbull 09/15/2013 at 23:29

2

Still would have been more believable that Vin Diesel's charger doing a torque-stand.

Bryce Womeldurf > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:29

1

Street racing is only done by inexperienced drivers, therefore it is dangerous. Your hypothetical situation doesn't address random pedestrians at all. What are you going to do? Tell people to get off the street? You'd have no authority to do so. I know your arguments because they used to be my arguments. It's a stupid idea. It's reasoning your way into doing something dangerous by thinking of it in a hypothetical perfect situation. Find a track or find a local autocross club or just don't race. It's not worth the risk.

Victorious Secret > Leadbull 09/15/2013 at 23:32

0

HAH!

I lol'd loudly.

Matt Hardigree > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:32

8

All racing is dangerous. Professional race car drivers will tell you that racing is dangerous, so to say "street racing is not dangerous" is to imply somehow that it's safer than real racing. It's not. The only reason why the danger in racing is acceptable is that everyone spectating, participating, and officiating accepts that they're part of a race and thus accepts some responsibility for what they're doing.

You can't assure that on a street. Not even if you and your buddies think you've successfully shut down the roads. You can't assure someone doesn't unknowingly sneak in. You can't assure that some hiker or birdwatcher or whatever isn't going to go running down the street. You are not professionals.

My dear friend Heather is a great actress and as part of her work doing summerstock theater in New Mexico she has to be out on the road, after the show, driving home in the middle of the night on fairly rural roads. If you think you've got some secret rural road and you're fine, you may have forgotten about Heather. And there she is, driving down that rural road late at night and you're flying down the highway and there she is all of a sudden. You hit her. She crashes. She dies.

And this isn't a hypothetical. The last time I saw Heather was in her casket, barely recognizable with all the work the mortician had to do to reconstruct her lovely face. Because of some young man street racing. Her life ended. His life ruined.

Next time you think you can organize a safe street race I want you to think about Heather, because I do every day.

terrunt > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 09/15/2013 at 23:32

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I'm not being ignorant. However, I'm a firm believer in that the more you push yourself the harder you'll focus. Not the same as drink driving, and to be honest I don't understand why you're trying to make a parallel. The drink driver knows that his vision, reactions and awareness are impacted, and still elects to go onto a public road with cross-traffic and travel at a generally increased speed. Not what I was saying in my post.

GhostZ > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 09/15/2013 at 23:32

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Drag strips consume time, space, and labor to maintain that can be used for businesses that can provide goods, technological advancement, and efficiency increases to larger groups of people than just automotive enthusiasts.

Street racing does none of this harm to a society. It does do some harm, but how much? Like I said, more information is needed.

Continuing down this line of thinking and you'll arrive at "everyone should be putting all of their time into a unified goal (as of yet to be determined) of the species most efficiency, any resources spent on entertainment or alternative goals is 'bad' for society."

Since that is obviously not the world we live in, we need an actual standard to compare to. Which is why I need to know what it would cost to save that poor soul, and what good he would do for the world for the extra time he was alive. That gives us two states we can compare, rather than what your proposing, which is comparing the existing state with an impossible ideal.

12Valve > terrunt 09/15/2013 at 23:33

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I only live my life a quarter mile at a time.

terrunt > For Sweden 09/15/2013 at 23:33

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Nothing close to where I am. :( I wanna get up into the Brecon's at some point though, and rag something rwd around :D

Can I just re-iterate though: I have never streetraced, and nor am I considering it.