Can you really flip cars for money?

"William Byrd" (thedriver)
09/10/2013 at 20:36 • Filed to: CAR FLIPPING, FAST N' LOUD, SPEC PANTHER

I'll say it up front, I've probably been watching too much !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and hence I have this crazy notion that I can flip cars for money. The premise is simple enough, find a cheap car that has "potential", buy it, fix it up (just enough, not too much) and resell it for more than you invested. But I'm sure there is more to it than that!

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The trick comes in figuring out the market, what cars are out there that are cheap that, after a small investment, can be resold for a profit. This is where I think "Panther". I'm curious what the market is for hot rod Panthers. Whether it's prepping them for !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! or just for cruising, I'm thinking that a $2000 Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, or Lincoln Town Car would make a great pilot for my new hot rod garage.

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Full disclosure, I'm not all that mechanically savvy, but only insofar as I haven't spent all that much time wrenching. I've raced for several seasons and have accomplished some basic stuff on my own, which brings me to the next phase of the logistics, who's would my/your Aaron Kaufmann be? If you can do it all yourself, that's ideal. But I think I'm more of the money/design/idea guy, so I'll need to find a place that can handle the work I can't at home in my garage.

Some creative agreement with a local speed shop would probably work, either convince them to give me a significant discount on labor in exchange for guaranteed follow-on work (plus some promotion that I could probably provide through various channels) or get them to do the work gratis in exchange for a percentage of the final profits.

One car at a time, less than $5000 per vehicle invested, worst case I'm not out all that much. So what am I missing here? I have a tow vehicle (Suburban) with a hitch, so I would need a flatbed trailer and start making friends with the local auction houses, junkyards, etc. The trick will be, as it is on Discovery Channel, finding the right car. The Bronco above was a rustbucket and something like that would be out of my league.

But I feel like a used Crown Vic with the police interceptor package (there's one for sale down the street) with some minor mods (basic maintenance, wheels, suspension, wash and wax) would potentially net $1000-$2000 profit it done right.

(obviously the Car Craft project car has a Cobra engine, would have to work up to that).

I've actually done pretty well on used car flips in the past. I bought a 951 (944 Turbo) that I resold after 6 months for more than I paid, same for the 1999 Miata I bought, autocrossed for a season and resold. I would love to make a small enough profit to add a 2nd garage out behind my house and do it on a more part-time basis.

What else, any other vehicles you think would be worthwhile to consider? Anyone ever done it? Oh and if you are in the DC area and want in, let me know. "Oppo Garage" was born...

DISCUSSION (77)

The World of Vee > William Byrd
09/10/2013 at 20:39

fuck da haters. I LOVE the stance on that panther.

William Byrd > The World of Vee
09/10/2013 at 20:41

Me too, looks awesome. Hot Rod style done in a modern way.

5ohbrad > William Byrd
09/10/2013 at 20:45

Richard Rawlins has lots of irons in the fire. I'm not completely convinced that Gas Monkey- the authority on flipping interesting cars for profit, is a solid business model. The shop was established with the purpose of securing a TV deal and then creating a marketing machine that would allow them to make money through merchandising and other ventures such as sponsorships and the newly announced bar and grill. Your best bet is to have fun and try not to lose your ass, making money long term is tricky to do with interesting cars.

5ohbrad > The World of Vee
09/10/2013 at 20:47

I concur. Panthers can be sexy.

William Byrd > 5ohbrad
09/10/2013 at 20:49

Certainly. I have no grand designs on making this a full time business. I was watching some of the older episodes back before the 65,000 sq. ft. warehouse they moved into. It was certainly more basic, one main car at a time, some others came through that were quick flips. I love the creativity involved, and I'm sure there is a lot of pain as well.

5ohbrad > 5ohbrad
09/10/2013 at 20:50

What I was getting at is that it's a brand that they sell, the cars/garage aspect are just a piece that is lucky to make little if any money, but necessary to establish credibility for the brand.

N51fanatic > The World of Vee
09/10/2013 at 20:53

I would pimp the $h!t outta that panther

5ohbrad > William Byrd
09/10/2013 at 20:55

I'm not hating on GMG, I love the show and Aaron took time from his busy schedule to give me a tour of the new space. I think they do a great thing by encouraging people to get out in the garage and wrench. It inspires me to chase deals and teaches people that flipping cars allows you to own a bunch of cool iron without being a millionaire.

William Byrd > 5ohbrad
09/10/2013 at 20:57

That's awesome! I've heard they are very receptive to visitors, will have to stop by if I'm in Dallas. It's a fun show to watch, makes me want to give it a try though. haha

GhostZ > William Byrd
09/10/2013 at 21:00

From what I've gathered, you can flip cars for cash but not for money . Hear me out.

If you apply a dollar value to time, space, and effort, you have to be making crazy returns on selling these cars (which means using only rare or luxury cars) to efficiently make a sale.

For example, after mods and transaction costs, if you're able to get 20% per sale (So selling a $2000-worth-in-parts-car works out to $400 profit at $2400) and it takes you 10 hours of searching, going, picking up, and bringing back each car, 10 hours of cleaning it up, and 10 hours of finding a seller. You have to rent a garage spot at $200 a month, and you could be otherwise working a $30,000 a year job at 40 hours a week.

In 1 year you'll put in 1920 hours (48 weeks of work at 40 hours a week) for $30,000.
So to meet your time equivalency, you need to sell 64 cars per year (30 hours of effort each) and make more than $30,000 + garage costs ($2400)

So if you're making 20% on each sale, that means you need 5 times 32,400 in total volume of cars. That's $162,100 worth of cars you need to move per year. The average car has to sell at around $2,500 just to break even . You'll have to move a car about once every 3-4 days.

20% on each sale is also rather gracious. If your mod and ownership costs are 50% of the original buying price (1500 into a $3000 car), your mods need to increase the total value of the car 1.8 times what you bought it at. This means buying a car for $3000, putting $1500 into it, and selling it for $5400.

You can, of course, do more valuable cars at less prices. The ideal scenario is selling 1 car a year at 162,100, which you bought for 90,055 and put $45,000 worth of work into. This doesn't account for tools either, and you'll be doing all of the work yourself.

But this all assumes your best source of income otherwise is only $30,000 a year!

If you need to make, say, $50,000 a year (or perhaps you could get a job at that salary instead) then suddenly you need to make $52400 at bare minimum, which means moving $262,000 worth of cars per year, which you bought for $145,555 and put $72,777 into.

This also doesn't take into account any perks (insurance, etc.) of your job you're giving up.

This is essentially how any used car dealership works. As you grow in volume, usually laws require you to get a dealer license.

So if you don't have many job options, this can be very good to make money to get by, if you can consistently deliver results. However, it only works if you are confident that you can keep costs low, you can buy/sell within a matter of days, and your mods are guaranteed to raise the value of the car significantly.

One bad car purchase could also throw you all out of sorts and put you seriously behind, especially if you don't have savings built up. You wouldn't be making any extra cash, you'd just be making a daily living.

N51fanatic > William Byrd
09/10/2013 at 21:02

I watch every car show on tv, CCC, FnL, Car Crazy, Desert Car Kings, that crappy one in dallas, wheeler dealers etc. I sold cars for 6 months about 10 years ago. I have been a car nut my whole life.

My honest opinion, you wont make any money. Especially when you say, your're not a wrencher yourself.

You have to worry about insurance, titling, registration, inspection, transportation costs etc all that adds up and costs money, that will eat your profit margin. I mean unless the car is an absolute steal, your probably gonna lose.

Side note, I actually have a dream to open a small dealership that specializes in rare sporty modern classics. Think Miatas, GTI's, GTO's, M3'S, 911'S, S2000'S, WRXs, SRT'S, GTI'S, MAZDASPEED'S, RX8'S, 1.8T'S, EVO'S, M3'S, AMG'S, V8, VTEC'S, TURBO'S etc. All in manual transmission only. It would be awesome. But then reality strikes, i'd sell a car a month, go BK and lose all my money.

I have started thinking smaller and browse craigslist looking for something i could buy cheap and basically detail to flip, but it takes hard work to FIND the cars on craigslist. The moral of the story, dont waste your time.

William Byrd > GhostZ
09/10/2013 at 21:04

Wow! You've thought about this before haven't you! Good stuff.

I have a fairly high paying day job. This would just be for fun and to scratch my car itch.

Jayhawk Jake > William Byrd
09/10/2013 at 21:12

In that case, why not do it? As long as you keep in mind that it's for fun, I see no harm.

Heck, you probably wouldn't even be spending as much money as I do for all my hobbies when you factor in whatever cash you get back on it.

GhostZ > William Byrd
09/10/2013 at 21:14

In that case, you have to factor in your expenses of recreation.

If you spend those 30 hours a week doing a hobby (cumulative TV, sports, hanging out, etc. is usually around that) then spending 15 hours a week on this could be great.

If you spend 100$ per week on your own recreation during those 15 hours you would otherwise spend flipping cars.

Then assuming the same costs (Bought at $1, invested $0.50, sold at $1.80) if you can break even on your time VS another job, you pocket $5200 additionally. So take what I put in the first post, and add $10000 (since the first post was for 30 hours a week) to see how much better you'd be off.

I personally believe that a good hobby should pay you back. Try it out and go for it. I'd look up dealer license requirements, and how quickly you are allowed to resell a car. If you can sit on a car and wait, great, but you need to be able to have the storage space (which can be costly). If you factor garage space into it, maybe try to get a bulk deal and rent out 3 storage lockers or so. Sell 4-5 cars a year at relatively higher prices, and spend your time working on them.

If you sell and buy more expensive cars and take longer to do it (instead of a bunch of cheaper crown vics) you can take advantage of their natural appreciation. If a car rises 10% per year (not unheard of for classic cars) you both outrun inflation and make about 1% more for each month you have it in storage after you've fixed it up.

rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S > William Byrd
09/10/2013 at 21:36

I know someone that paid their entire way through college in the late 80s and early 90s by flipping cars. He had quite a bit of mechanical skill, but his method mostly didn't involve that.

Instead, he would mostly identify mid-60s through mid-70s American cars out in the country of North Georgia that had been effectively abandoned for one reason or another (in most cases, because the owner was too old to drive or had passed away), and ask the person who was left with the car how much they wanted for it. In most cases, it was less than $500 with the caveat that the car had not run in X years.

He would go prep it with new tires and a new battery and bring it back to Atlanta (where he lived at the time) on a weekend, spend a week cleaning it up and fixing anything easy, and sell the car the next weekend. He probably did that over a dozen times that I was aware of - never lost money, and in some cases made a few thousand. Not bad for a couple of hours work. But you have to know where the bodies of decent iron is buried.

JasonStern911 > William Byrd
09/10/2013 at 22:55

In Nevada, you have to get a dealers license and pay taxes after the third vehicle you sell a year, so that puts a strain on any potential profitability.

The only way to really make enough money on this to justify doing it is in one of three ways:

1. Bad car-ma : Exploit a stupid car craze. Murder a car out (black tint, black paint, black rims), put oversized rims on it (but rotating mass!), etc. Or take fender-bender Civic, apply a body kit, plasti-dip the rims, replace the stock muffler with something off of a sportbike.

2. Neutral car-ma : Buy cars from tow yard auctions - ideally not wrecked ones so you can hopefully avoid dealing with a salvage/rebuilt title (state laws may vary), fix what are hopefully just minor problems, then sell for a profit.

3. Good car-ma : Buy a car actually worth restoring and do a budget restoration on it. This one requires a lot more work, but in the end you're potentially saving a car. Check craigslist and estate sales for someone being gifted a car they don't want, or something that isn't running that someone doesn't have the time/money/knowledge to fix. Good budget cars there. Then fix whatever has to be fixed, do basic maintenance (replace the fluids and filters), and bring back on the road something cool. Where this can lose money is the fix whatever has to be fixed part. The important part here is to be patient and buy used. Check craigslist and ideally be willing to drive a bit. eBay motors works, too, especially for smaller parts, but it's a lot harder to check something out and talk someone down due to quality. plus people on craigslist tend to be willing to take less money to avoid having to deal with shipping and dealing with online transactions.

Best of luck whatever you do. If you're fixed on Crown Vics, then stick to them. The first time you do a repair, it usually takes forever and you potentially break something. The next time you do the same repair, you know what not to do. So there is a ton of benefit to sticking to a certain model. Plus you can build some credentials and make friends with people on forums, and thus seem more reputable when you try and sell and also get deals and leads on parts for repairs for restorations.

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > William Byrd
09/10/2013 at 23:00

In the DC area and interested. At the very least I'd like to hang out and wrench on some stuff with someone besides myself.

offroadkarter > William Byrd
09/10/2013 at 23:36

How do I put this in an accurate way... Flipping a panther for profit?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !

Panther resale = non existant, don't expect to do some work to one and pull in a massive profit. It doesn't work on a car that was overused as cabs and cop cars, the end.

BJohnson11 > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 00:15

I too have long considered it. It all depends on what you're trying to get out of the situation. If you're trying to purely flip cars from a money perspective, there are ways to do it (as others, namely mkbruin) have pointed out, but you also have to really crunch the numbers if you're trying to do it for a living.

My goal is to be a builder of cars (working on it now, even in college, with the new truck I bought), but not to be in the business of flipping for money. I want to buy cars because I want to know what it'd be like to own them. I have enough mechanical sense about me to be able to fix problems, and could sell the cars down the line if I'd like.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, yes, it's possible, but it's dependent on what you want to put into it and get out of it. I work on project cars as a hobby, with the primary goal being enjoyment, and the secondary goal being the sale.

Also to note: flipping cars is as much about the work you do as it is about being a good salesman—marketing, finding the right buyer, negotiating, etc.

5ohbrad > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 01:16

Definitely, the whole crew was busy, but still made time for me to look around. Aaron seems like a genuinely decent guy.

ZeroOrDie - Powered By MZR > FJ80WaitinForaLSV8
09/11/2013 at 10:59

Need to start and Oppo Nova Garage. Which Im sure will evolve into Oppo Nova Motorsports.

William Byrd > ZeroOrDie - Powered By MZR
09/11/2013 at 11:32

Cool, I'll let you know!

William Byrd > JasonStern911
09/11/2013 at 11:35

Excellent reply, thanks Jason!

Around DC, the murdered out look would sell unfortunately. I like the stratificaton of different types of cars that one could go into this doing. I think I would build the first one in a style that I would want (For a Panther it would hot-rod road racer themed) and worst case if it doesn't sell I have a beater to drive around in.

Obviously the good car-ma (great names by the way) is ideal, I would love to buy up broken down FD RX-7s and put V8s in them for customers, but that's a lot of cash out of pocket on each one. But perhaps my Panther party (unfortunate name?) will fund the eventual version of the garage.

William Byrd > JasonStern911
09/11/2013 at 11:36

Kinja went crazy, duplicate reply.

William Byrd > JasonStern911
09/11/2013 at 11:37

Kinja went crazy, duplicate reply.

William Byrd > JasonStern911
09/11/2013 at 11:38

Kinja went crazy, duplicate reply.

William Byrd > JasonStern911
09/11/2013 at 11:40

Kinja went crazy, duplicate reply.

ZeroOrDie - Powered By MZR > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 12:10

Down to wrench any night of the week. Dont have the know how just the desire. Got made googling skills tho.

William Byrd > Jayhawk Jake
09/11/2013 at 12:12

I like the line of reasoning!

William Byrd > GhostZ
09/11/2013 at 12:14

Again, some great stuff to think about. Thank you. I am curious about the laws in MD about how many cars I can sell before I'm a "dealer". Although getting a license would probably be beneficial in the sense that I could get a set of dealer plates to test drive the cars after modifying them.

I see where you are going on the more expensive cars, but with the wife I'll have to ease into this, hopefully get a couple of good wins built up before going any bigger.

William Byrd > N51fanatic
09/11/2013 at 12:17

All fair points. I would be doing it mostly for fun though and the hunt would be part of the fun. I'm curious if I have to insure and register each car or not if I don't intend to put it on the road myself. If I trailer it from the buyer, fix it up at my house and local garages (using the trailer) and then resell it I'm curious if I can get away with not bothering to insure and tag it. Need to research that a bit.

William Byrd > rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S
09/11/2013 at 12:17

Good stuff, sounds like the challenge (fun?) will be in finding the right car to work on.

William Byrd > offroadkarter
09/11/2013 at 12:19

You'll note I never said "massive" profit. And I would submit that it depends on your region. Panther's are pretty popular around DC, I bet I could buy around $1500, put $1000 into it and sell for $4000-$5000.

William Byrd > GhostZ
09/11/2013 at 12:21

Oh and I have a 2-car garage on 1-acre so I don't have to worry about storage for the cars. I don't see this turning into a business where I need a separate commercial garage, but if It did, I would cross that bridge when I get to it.

ZeroOrDie - Powered By MZR > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 12:22

Down to wrench any night of the week. Dont have the know how just the desire. Got made googling skills tho.

daender > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 12:40

There's a good market from flipping Miata but it's got to be done right and if you have the time/tool/parts. Hardtop and 1.8 VVT write-offs have the most potential since the top alone can get you 800-1000$ and NA owners like the extra power the VVT gives over a 1.6L. Lotta Miata write-offs are just cosmetic damage, although frame-damaged ones make great parts car/scrap metal buys. SCCA friend of mine bought a mid 5-digit mile '95 M edition that was barely rear-ended (broke the rear finish frame, a tail light, and cracked the bumper) and written off, repaired, and re-approved for the road for just 5k$. It still has the rare (and valuable) BBS 15-inch wheels.

William Byrd > daender
09/11/2013 at 12:42

Plus they don't take up much room in the garage/driveway! Good stuff, I'll keep that in mind.

Coty > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 12:53

Kinja'd!!!

BJ > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 12:57

mkbruin has left the building touched on this, but I wanted to repeat it: detailing. This can add real market value to a car.

If you want to make a little profit, look at buying dirty cars. You know the Craigslist post where the seller didn't bother removing all the McDonalds garbage from the dash before taking pictures? That car will often sell for under market value. Clean it up inside and out, do a quick paint restoration (remove the swirls, etc) and get it looking shiny.

daender > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 13:00

No problem! Also keep an eye on local CL pages for Miata hardtop (just the top), if you see any for under 800$, then scoop it up quickly, clean it, wax it, and sell it for 1k$. Mazdaspeed-colored, 15th anv, M-Edition, and low-production number (ex: Laser Blue Mica, 700-ish made) paint tops usually sell higher for 1.2k$ to 1.5k$.

Rows His Own > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 13:01

Having your dealers license is extremely beneficial because you can then access cars at dealer auction. Then you buy cars at dealer black book value, not the skewed KBB value that most people want for their car. Flipping cars becomes a lot more viable. Want me to pick up an AMS Alpha 9 GtR with 20k on the odo? I can get one for less than 70k which is what you'll pay for an 08 with 50k miles and no mods or warranty. The license isn't cheap but it pays off fast. Having a good creditor slips even more. It's possible to flip cars but never think that it's easy to jump in to. Also, being a dealer makes insuring any cars you pick up much easier

William Byrd > Rows His Own
09/11/2013 at 13:05

Great intel, thanks! I need to work on some of the logistics, but if MD is like some states mentioend in the comments, I can only flip a few cars before I'll be required to have a license (which makes sense).

William Byrd > daender
09/11/2013 at 13:07

My 1999 came with a top, I let it go with the car! I should have sold it separately. Grumble.

Rows His Own > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 13:21

Kinja'd!!!

No problem. I'm actually getting into the business myself with a friend who has been doing it for years. His last pick up was a c63. 60k miles picked up for 25, cleaned up and sold for 36. It's a good business if you don't let your heart rule your head. Best of luck because we've had some great times out of it

AW46M3 > BJ
09/11/2013 at 13:25

^This! As someone else mentioned most states require you to have a dealers license to sell more than 3-5 cars a year. To get a dealer license you need to have a lot, with a building that houses at least 1 unisex bathroom. This cannot be a residence (has to be zoned commercial). There has to be a sign for said business that's a certain size. In other words you're going to have to pay rent of $2000+ a month, which means you'd need one person there all the time to sell, and at least one more out at the auctions finding the cars. Now you have 2 salaries to cover as well....

With that said states aren't exactly spending the time and money to crack down on people that flip out of their house either. It can be done, you won't get rich doing it, but if you look at it more like a hobby that pays about $5 an hr it's doable. I've sold a few cars for more than I paid for them, and after driving them for a yr or 2. As I used them I fixed things that needed to be repaired, and detailed them. I was lucky that I never ran into transmission or engine problems. Mostly just cosmetic issues.

daender > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 13:26

It's how I got my hardtop. The owner appeared to be selling his Miata and accessories separately (he was taking the aftermarket wheels and tires to a flea-market) so I brought his hardtop for 1k$. The best part is that it's a NB top with defroster so it hooks up to mine with zero changes.

William Byrd > daender
09/11/2013 at 13:28

That's a good win. Mine was a different color than the car (red top, white car) so I'm guessing the previous owner did the same. I just used it as lure to sell the car, should have parted it out!

CobraJoe > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 13:35

As someone who has bought, fixed, and sold many cars, I can tell you that it's very difficult to make money by doing this.

A few tips though:

1. Buy privately, and look for someone who doesn't know what they're selling, or doesn't know the real problem behind what they're selling. Also, cars that have some neglected maintenance can be cheap, but be careful, it can cause bigger problems.

2. Fix what you can, and make pretty what you can't. Sometimes the fix is as easy as cleaning electrical contacts, sometimes you'll spend 8 hours in the shop to replace a $3 part, sometimes it would require a new and expensive part that won't add enough to the selling price of the car. Use cheap parts if you can find them, free parts if possible, but if you don't fix something important, be sure to disclose it to the seller (just to be honorable.) Also, be sure to give it a good wipedown and vacuuming, nothing makes a car look like it's worth more than simply being clean.

3. Determine the realistic value of the car, and don't be sad if that's the only money you get out of it, but also don't allow yourself to lose a lot of money on it. The last car I sold was a '99 Mercedes C230K, and I could have sold it instantly for $2000, but I held out until I got $2500 (it was a salvage title, that's why it was so cheap).

4. Don't be afraid to trade, but be sure you're getting an equivalent valued car or more. It's an easy way to start the process over again, and saves you from paying sales tax at the DMV.

Don't expect to make a lot of money, but it is a fun hobby and lets you drive a lot of different cars for a while. Also, don't expect to spend a lot of money on performance enhancements and make all that money back.

B_dol > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 15:07

I can't see this being entirely lucrative, but if you enjoy the work and variety of cars it may be a good route.

The way I see it, $2-5K can net you a decent 5-15% return in the stock market within a few months (with the market as it is now). A lot less time and hassle, but i digress. Searching craiglist for used cars is a deadly habit, and I use those stock market profits to fund it.

offroadkarter > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 17:50

I wish you luck should you take up these endeavors, but as someone who has been in the panther community, owning a marauder for the past 6 years, I stand by my statements.

JasonStern911 > William Byrd
09/11/2013 at 22:07

I love LSx powered FDs. They're what the C5 Corvette wishes it could have been. But yeah, there's definitely a large upfront investment needed. Decent chassis go for $5k, and then there's the unexpected expenses when you buy a car without being able to drive it - just how good is the suspension, steering components, etc. Does the A/C and power steering actually work (less of an issue with a swap, but still..)...

Best of luck with whatever you do, and make sure to keep us posted.

Casper > William Byrd
03/04/2014 at 16:25

I have made money on a lot of my past cars, but you shouldn't assume you are going to be able to do so unless the vehicle is A) very depreciated or B) you are going to act as a dealership and buy cars based on profitability.

Generally the more you do to a car (either driving it yourself or modifying/repairing it) the less likely you are to make anything on it... which ruins the fun of cars to most car people.

AROGNT > offroadkarter
12/25/2014 at 21:57

Um... WRONG. If you're smart and know where to go, they are some of the most affordable and profitable to flip. I go to the State surplus auctions, they are not dealer only, and you can get nice 1 owner fleet maintained Crown Vics, older Tauruses, and Impalas (Chargers too, but I don't touch those, not cheap enough... YET lol). Around here half the people that want to buy them want to repaint, redo the interior, and throw huge rims on them, they dgaf that it's an old cop car, they care that it's a one owner, low mile, well maintained car. Same for Impalas. Public utilities uses Tauruses, they're fair game as low mile one owner fleet maintained daily drivers. Pay from $800-$1500, sell for $1500=$3000, cars that are "officially" worth almost twice that, you won't have any car for over a week.

AROGNT > William Byrd
12/25/2014 at 22:53

To answer your question, yes, you can flip cars for $. But, don't mean to disappoint you, if you have to ask how, chances are you either need to do some major research or might want to forget about it. Some people can wake up and do this without thinking about it, others try and end up losing money, getting in legal trouble, or both. I'm a licensed dealer, yet I sell cars out of my yard, you CAN do that legally without FULLY paying for DL and insurance/bond, or owning/renting a commercial property. All I'll say beyond that is basically IN MY STATE you can become an "agent" of an established dealership and get all the perks of an independent dealer (sell as many cars as you want, auction access, dealer and transporter plates, ability to handle paperwork, sleep well at night) for a fraction of becoming a dealer on your own. It helps to have a friend working at a dealership.

I'll give a few biggies out of the 100s of things to know:

1. Know your state's laws, first and foremost. IN MOST STATES SELLING EVEN ONE CAR FOR PROFIT IS ILLEGAL W/O A DEALER LICENSE. Keep in mind most states only allow you to sell/trade a certain number of vehicles within a 12 month period (not from 1/1/yy to next).

2. NEVER mod a car you plan on flipping. Mechanical work is ok, if you fix a car that needs, say, a valve job or a HG rebuild (cheap part wise but can be labor intensive), your parts and labor will be well compensated, but if you start modding the thing with aftermarket performance, style, or whatever upgrades, you are GUARANTEED to lose money.

3. Unless you're getting a STEAL, mostly buy what appeals to MOST used car buyers. That basically means, what do you see on the road the most. Like, for example, 95-05 Corollas, Camrys, Accords, and Civics with under 150K miles. Also keep in mind, manual transmissions are desirable in certain types of vehicles (Jeeps and sporty cars for ex), but most daily driver car buyers prefer an auto. And don't get into anything that costs YOU over $2000, you can increase that a little as you go along, but that's a good rule of thumb for now.

4. Clean the unit up REAL good and take good pics in a nice place, I would not buy a nice ass Mercedes that is parked in front of a trailer unless it was priced at 1/20 of its value.

5. (this and #1 are the most important). Have at least some proper customer skills, and don't lie to people. You will get more respect (and less risk of legal problems) from potential buyers if you tell you bought it because you got a good deal so you can make a couple dollars than if you try to pull some b/s. Karma is a bitch.

Good luck!

William Byrd > AROGNT
01/05/2015 at 14:23

Excellent reply! Thanks.

Damian > William Byrd
02/03/2015 at 18:45

I've flipped cars for about 14 years now, all to supplement my custom car shop, as well as myself over the years. I've had highs and lows and I can tell you it can be very difficult, though very rewarding. I also have my own tips, of what I've learned over the years.

1. Know the market. Know whats hot and trendy and whats in demand from a buyers perspective. Getting into a niche car like a crown vic is going to require buyers from likely far distances, who aren't going to want to fly 1200 miles and do a deal on something like that.

2. Flip cars for the masses is the easiest means to making money. That means, flip your everyday drivers in the 3k-5k resell range. These numbers always produce a cash sale, and are generally the easiest to sell quickly.

3. The real ability to flip cars isn't about what you can sell, it's about how good you are at buying. If you can't find and buy, you won't flip and sell successfully unless you are jumping head first into doing all out builds that are in HIGH demand (think porsche, bmw e30 m3, your demanded classics, etc)

4. It can pay to deal with only ONE type of car...ONE brand. Familiarizing yourself with ONE specific market and one brand allows you to really know the common quirks, the costs, where parts are available, etc. Over time, with dedication, obviously multiple brands can be common, but...this often equals bucks.

GMG does well because marketing is everything. Prior to the tv deal, life wasn't so easy, I assure you. Don't take anything they do, OCC or any other show as a model of how to make money. Having nationwide exposure, given that opportunity, will allow you to sell pure junk. Good luck..

William Byrd > Damian
02/04/2015 at 10:34

Great write-up! I've since shelved the idea because of financial reasons (kids, house, life, etc.) but I still think it's got some potential. My market research (driving in and out of DC an hour each way) shows a huge demand for Panther variants, especially those spruced up a bit. That tracks with your comments about sticking to a brand/make/type, I think I would eventually get pretty good at finding/buying and then working on them. One day perhaps, regardless thanks for the intel, that helps.

Hurricane In Heels > William Byrd
03/15/2015 at 19:10

Found you because I went off to the auction here in Tampa yesterday & bought a car after my car was totaled in an accident. I had so much fun researching the cars, checking under the hood and seeing how the bidding process works that I am smitten. Although I am a makeup junkie, I am also a former aircraft mechanic so this girl has no issues getting a little dirty if I have to turn the wrench myself. I wanted to see what you all were saying about flipping cars. Someone mentioned flipping cars for the masses and I have to agree with that. There were SUV's that sold for under $4k, I don't have a dealers lic (yet) but was whipping out KBB all over the place as these cars were sold. The little car I bought (a VW Beetle) I got for $1300 and can sell it for $2400 in this market (it needs a new headliner which I can fix for $50). I was blown away by a beautiful 2010 Chevy Malibu with power everything that sold for $4k with 48k miles on it, there was a VW Toureg that sold for $5700 low miles, power everything as well that I really wanted. My goal is to buy low, make small repairs/cosmetic changes and then resell them. There were also a few Crown Victoria's that sold for $400. I don't know their condition, I wasn't interested in driving those. I went for my own personal reasons but found I kinda liked the thrill of the action and am now considering flipping. Your commenters have some really great insight, thanks for sharing this.

jmart > William Byrd
04/21/2015 at 03:25

I’m about to try with my A4 Avant. If I do it’s because I got it really cheap

Justin > William Byrd
04/23/2015 at 23:30

Depending on your local laws you may need a dealer license if you intended to sell more than a few cars in a year. In illinois you are limited to less than 6 cars before you have to get a license which is 1000$ a year. I have a friend that does this and he is already registering things in his wife’s name by march because he doesn’t wanna spend the money.

William Byrd > Justin
04/24/2015 at 08:03

Thanks, yeah it sounds like Maryland has similar rules about selling cars. The fee for the license isn’t too bad though, only a couple hundred if I recall correctly.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > William Byrd
05/06/2015 at 11:50

Yes. I bought 3 ex-cop Crown Vics at a municipal auction and sold them and made about $3,500 in the end. But it was a ton of work finding backseats and such. But there’s a market.

LaserTSV > Casper
06/17/2015 at 22:32

Your advice is spot on. I noticed that Rawlings uses this same strategy every time he buys a good car for a low price. So, I believe that if you can buy vehicles from friends, coworkers, college students, rural people, and other people who won’t drive a hard bargain, you can make money.

LaserTSV > Casper
06/17/2015 at 22:32

Clown Shoe Pilot > William Byrd
08/15/2015 at 23:25

I think Mark Webber has proven that you CAN flip cars for money.

Kinja'd!!!

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > William Byrd
08/15/2015 at 23:45

It can be done, but without s TV show, I would never put faith in mods making you money.

I bought a 92 MR2 turbo, drive it for s summer and sold it for $2000 more. Not because I’m a slick salesman, but I knew an undervalued car when I saw one. This was the thick of Fast and Furiousn and imports were hot.

I Found the car in Kansas City, but live in StL. In general, used cars are 5-15% less in KC. I can’t tell you why. Look around your area for markets that are less pricey than yours, then be patient. Wait for what you know if a good deal.

Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man > William Byrd
08/16/2015 at 01:38

Are you flipping cars orlove style?

Kinja'd!!!

Or selling them?

E92M3 > William Byrd
11/08/2015 at 18:10

If you cannot do the work yourself and have to pay someone else labor it’s virtually impossible to make money flipping cars.

I’ve made money on a few, but if you add up the time I spent it wouldn’t have even been minimum wage. That’s right I would of been better off getting a part time job pushing buggies or something. It did learn a lot though.

dogisbadob > William Byrd
01/10/2016 at 20:15

Yeah, people do it all the time

Kinja'd!!!

Scott > William Byrd
02/24/2016 at 12:58

It can certainly be done, but I would advise you aim a little lower to start. Anything custom runs into 2 issues. Custom cars have a reputation of being poorly done by people with more vision than talent. Secondly and related to the first custom tends to limit your buyers. Also keep in mind to do a custom car often requires lots of money being spent. That’s why most, although not all, custom car shops do custom work, specific to the customers wants. A better starting point is to just buy cars at a good price, that just need a little cleaning and TLC, and can be sold for a lot more. No matter what, work backwards. Start by seeing how much you can expect to sell the car for. Keep it real, going with a CP price is just lying to yourself. If you want to sell it your sale price must be reasonable. Secondly figure out your budget for parts, with some extra for unforeseen expenses. Lastly figure out how much profit makes it worth doing. Not how much you’d Love to make, but just how much is worth the effort. What’s left is how much you need to find a car for. Obviously you’ll need to adjust numbers, as you go, until you know specifics of what issues a car has, how much it will take to fix it up is hard to answer, but start with rough estimates and refine the numbers as you go. If you want to do some custom work, I would say KISS, Keep it Simple Stupid. But the good thing about custom is you can figure in your expense before you find the car. Lastly, any savings in profit. If you can get a deal on a part that’s money literally in your pocket. Donor car/parts cars, can be great, as you have a source of parts, and you can scrap what you don't use for a little extra cash that will often cover your cost of the donor/parts car. Best of luck, and keep us informed if you do this.

Scott > Hurricane In Heels
02/24/2016 at 13:12

Very good way to go about it. I have a friend that does not have a lot of mechanical skill, he is just great at finding deals, I swear sometimes it seems like the deals seek him out. His mechanical skills are pretty much limited to detailing type work. If it requires more than your basic tune up he won't touch it. He's pretty much always made some money. I've often felt if he had more mechanical skills he could make a killing. He just does it for fun and extra cash. Sounds like you have the right mind set, and with the ability to turn wrenches, even better.

William Byrd > Scott
02/24/2016 at 14:01

Thanks Scott. Good info. I think “custom” is relative. Something like the Panther in the header picture is more what I had in mind originally. Make sure it’s road worthy and safe, fix the exterior/interior bits that need work, toss on a new set of wheels, and some minor aesthetic mods, and move it along. I think if you keep the investment low, it could work.

Now, it’s been 3 years since I posted this and I’m no closer! lol

DrScientist > William Byrd
02/24/2016 at 14:23

id think the investment in core tools and equipment makes this a very difficult proposition for the backyard mechanic.

sure you can do most stuff with jack stands. but how much time is it going to take vs a lift? have an air compressor and tools? swapping a set of wheels is easily 45 minutes with a floor jack and standard tire iron.

the other big factor never mentioned... taxes. going to “profit” $500 on that $5000 investment? uncle sam will take his 36% (potentially more), thank you very much. if we call it the $320 it actually is, is it still worth it?

speaking of taxes, are you going to register each of these cars? if you register them that costs a few bucks... but what’s more... unless you live in delaware, NH, oregon, and a couple others i dont remember right now, be prepared to pay sales tax when you register. that’s money youre not getting back.

if youre not going to register the car, how is anyone going to test drive them? better have a long driveway.

insurance too... just a couple of bucks, but it adds up.

so... if you want to actually make a small business out of it... i think its possible. then you get tax deductions for equipment and licensing and whatnot, but you better start turning a profit quickly, because uncle sam doesn’t really like people turning their hobbies into “businesses.”

E92M3 > William Byrd
02/24/2016 at 14:46

It’s definitely doable IF you do all the work yourself. Unfortunately in my experience I would of made more per hour delivering pizzas.

FlippingIncome > William Byrd
02/29/2016 at 18:06

It can certainly be done. I made a blog entry about it: http://flippingincome.com/post/139883618…

fletchcarltonsanders > William Byrd
03/14/2016 at 20:02

You definitely can. I would check out 3HourCarFlip.com. There’s a free how-to guide there for beginners. Just make sure you stay under the legal limit!

Tim > William Byrd
06/28/2016 at 22:58

It’s not impossible, it’s actually pretty simple and you can test your ability to do it with out a large investment at all. Check out www.makeflippinmoney.com . It’s a free blog to get you started in car flipping.