10 Things You Didn't Know About the Mazda Furai

"GhostZ" (GhostZ) 09/10/2013 at 18:08 • Filed to: Mazda, Furai, Mazda Furai, GhostZ

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100

1. It was a running prototype with the first ever rotary engine racecar designed to run on E100, aka, 100% ethanol fuel, and was faster than most cars, excluding Group C and F1, around most tracks.

2. The engine was based on the 1986 "13G" Le Mans prototype 3-rotor engine, which also gave way to the 3-rotor 20B in the Eunos Cosmo of the 90s.

3. It weighed 675kg, which is only about 30-50kg more than an F1 car. This gave it a power/weight ratio of .66, or three times better than a Bugatti Veyron.

4. Its chassis was based on an American Le Mans series spec Courage C65 chassis.

5. However, in the original race car, the engine was limited to around 400HP. The Furai had 450 with the use of E100 and a removed air restrictor.

6. The doors opened like this:

7. Without a rear wing, the drag coefficient is .36, but provides massive downforce as well. This is comparable to a Koenigsegg Agera R.

8. The wheelbase was 109 inches, which makes it about the same tire-to-tire length as a medium-sized sedan, despite its light weight.

9. It has a top speed of only 180, but a 0-60 time of about 3 seconds.

10. Its creation gave way to tons of rumors, such as the use of an E100 capable production engine, Mazda aiming for another Le Mans championship, and a supercar positioned above the RX-8. It was originally thought that the Furai may be itself a new car that could be sold the the public.

Bonus round for Blondude, those weird designs on the front and rear? Those are LED strip tail and headlights.

As a car, the Furai was probably one of the most (if not the most) driven and fast concept cars ever made. Unlike most concepts in the last 10 years, it wasn't a model, it wasn't for show, it was a a real race car that was extraordinarily fast.

I think if it had to go, being burned to ground by Top Gear driving stupidly fast is what we and the car would have wanted, instead of sitting in a museum and rotting.

Sparf > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:12

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Eric Siedlecki > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:13

0

Do you think that Mazda will make any attempt to salvage or recreate it in any way?

GhostZ > Eric Siedlecki 09/10/2013 at 18:17

5

I'd hope so. I'd love to see them take the chassis and re-body it, maybe with a SkyActive diesel engine (something race-worthy and more powerful than the original engine) as a way to bring it back. It's been a consistent form of intrigue and journalist fun since 2008, and it would be a huge press opportunity for them to salvage it.

Blondude > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:19

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It's lights were also the shiz.

This too.

Slighty_Less_Cooler_190e > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:20

0

That's precisely what their going to do. It was all a publicity stunt clearly.

isnewton > Eric Siedlecki 09/10/2013 at 18:22

0

Were all still waiting for that new RX-7 to come out first... which is about as likely to happen as it would for toyota to make a real sports car :)

Mechanix > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:22

2

I like the Furai so much. Definitely a must drive! Changing the gear settings helped the top speed very much in forza 3 and 4

GhostZ > Blondude 09/10/2013 at 18:23

1

Forgot all about these! Added to the original post.

Telumektar > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:25

9

What I think is Mazda's bucket list:

-Bring back the Rotary Engine: in process

-Bring Back the RX-es: we are at it too

-Make Furai substitute and this time use it to beat the shit out of the competition (without getting banned by the FIA): we will

-Be awesome and go zoom zoom: always

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:25

1

The Furai has made me cr-y.

Cloud81918 > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:26

1

Number 1 seems very questionable. E100 is Ethanol, it is modern badge that has been put on a very old product. Some of the first internal combustion engines used ethanol. Many farm implements used it. Ford's first car ran only on Ethanol. Ford's Model T could run Ethanol or Gasoline. Early racers loved it and ran it until methanol became more widespread.

Lothar > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:26

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"...and was faster than most cars, excluding Group C and F1, around most tracks."

"It weighed 675kg, which is only about 30-50kg more than an F1 car."

"The Furai had 450[hp] with the use of E100 and a removed air restrictor."

So it weighed more than an F1 car, was down about 300hp, and was still faster around most tracks? Are you sure? Like really sure? I know the F1 cars are open-wheel and open-cockpit and are at a disadvantage, but they're still pretty damn fast.

Mikeado > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:26

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" It weighed 675kg, which is only about 30-50kg more than an F1 car. "

It's worth pointing out that the minimum weight in Formula 1 of 642kg includes the driver and enough fuel to take a 1L sample. The car itself is likely somewhere around 550-570kg.

Not to take away from the Furai's lightness, though. That's still 225kg lighter than a modern LMP1 and about the same as an original Mini.

GhostZ > Mikeado 09/10/2013 at 18:30

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That makes sense, since the chassis is basically an LMP1 chassis that has its massive V10 traded for a tiny, tiny 3-rotor, saving a good 300-400lbs probably.

4wsprelude > Blondude 09/10/2013 at 18:30

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I am currently in love with those tail lights. Best use of it since LED lights yet. God that's awesome.

GhostZ > Lothar 09/10/2013 at 18:31

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It says excluding Group C and F1 cars. Group C and F1 were some of the only race cars faster than it. It was based on an Le Mans prototype after all.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:31

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Did somebody say "fully working and driveable concept with a highly advanced engine that totally deserved to go into production"?

DailyTurismo > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:32

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Looks like a RX-792P that was melted by a highly reflective skyscraper.

GhostZ > DailyTurismo 09/10/2013 at 18:33

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Not far off. Here's a picture of the car it was based on:

Mikeado > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:35

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I meant the F1 car is the one that's plus driver and fuel, sorry for the confusion.

Rows His Own > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:43

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It may just be me but I can't see the image. Link please? :)

Rows His Own > Sparf 09/10/2013 at 18:44

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Might wanna get that checked out

Sunshine Supercars > DailyTurismo 09/10/2013 at 18:45

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Is that the corkscrew? I was at that race!

Bandit > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:47

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Top gear said they killed it back in 2008, I'm not sure why everybody is freaking out now.

Vertec > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:48

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Just knowing how much was actually done with this prototype is reason enough to love Mazda.

If I wasn't already in love with my Miata anyway.

Kinetis > Telumektar 09/10/2013 at 18:49

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check, check, always thinking about it, and check.

Blondude > Rows His Own 09/10/2013 at 18:49

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Fred Smith > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:50

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It was basically an LMP2 car with a gorgeous body and a glorious, unique engine. Something special and grand that will surely be missed.

Rows His Own > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 09/10/2013 at 18:50

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With a more modern front clip and body contouring/lines that car would have been amazing. The ME412 was fantastic too, but no one would pay astronomical numbers for a Chrysler.

Burner2027 > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:51

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Whoa. I never knew you could make rotaries that torque-y

nobody > Bandit 09/10/2013 at 18:52

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Because it seems like they didn't tell anybody that they killed it. I was under the impression that the Furai was still somewhere at Mazda HQ in a storage garage.

Rows His Own > Blondude 09/10/2013 at 18:53

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Oi! Now it works both times. Silly nibbles

GhostZ > Bandit 09/10/2013 at 18:53

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Are you sure they mean it was killed in 08? That's when it was originally released. I'm fairly confident that it was around for a few more years at least, because it was a frequent journalist car and got a lot of miles. For example, Gran Turismo 5 came out in 2010, and it featured the car as well.

Bandit > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 18:55

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From Topgear.com "Top Gear was responsible for the untimely demise in 2008 of the quite remarkable Mazda Furai Concept..."

Bandit > nobody 09/10/2013 at 18:56

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From Top gears website "Top Gear was responsible for the untimely demise in 2008 of the quite remarkable Mazda Furai Concept..."

nobody > Bandit 09/10/2013 at 18:57

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"Posted 10 Sep 2013." They just told us today what they did in 2008.

Bandit > nobody 09/10/2013 at 18:59

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It was known it burned to the ground, it was suspected (but not confirmed) that TG did it. Here's a year old thread that has recently been updated. http://www.rx8club.com/general-automo…

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Rows His Own 09/10/2013 at 19:00

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Whaddya mean, "more modern"?!? The Cien is 11 years old and it still looks like it's from the future!

nobody > Bandit 09/10/2013 at 19:01

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For whatever reason, no one in these parts knew about it until TG's admission today.

Bandit > nobody 09/10/2013 at 19:02

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I forgot the car existed until today, I did some research earlier. It is still such a beautiful car.

RiseVbove > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 19:03

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Please Tell me there is a Second one!!!!! :((

Rows His Own > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 09/10/2013 at 19:05

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Just less square and flat. I don't know haha. But it does indeed look futuristic.

WarShrike > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 19:07

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Maintenance nightmare or not, I actually like that car! I'm not sure why I didn't know much more about it...

VashVashVash > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 19:08

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I really doubt that the V10 weighs more than 300lbs. Engines are heavy, but they are not that heavy.

GhostZ > WarShrike 09/10/2013 at 19:11

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They're unicorns outside of Japan apparently. I love them much more than their SC400/Soarer Toyota counterparts that they competed with.

McLarry > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 19:12

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Waitwaitwait...Something just doesn't add up. It's almost as light as an F1 car, has 3x better power-to-weight than a Veyron, Aero comparable to a Koenigsegg, goes around tracks faster than everything but F1 and Group C.........yet goes 0-60 as fast as a Noble M600 and has a top speed comparable to late model Porsche 911?

GrauGeist > Lothar 09/10/2013 at 19:12

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Faster than most cars, around most tracks is not a high standard, give that the average car is old and not sporty. The biggest selling car in California is the Prius. The biggest-selling cars in the US are mushy meh Camcord / Corolla / Civics. Plus, there's the huge explosion of tall wagon sales.

With that as context, my bog standard 530i is easily going to be objectively faster than most cars around most tracks. Something like the Furai would be objectively faster than 95% of cars around 90% of tracks.

zoom44 > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 19:19

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i knew all of those things. here are some thing some might not have known

it had one of these as a muffler

this guy in the red hat

built and tuned the engine(with the help of a motec engineer). He also built that muffler. His name is Jim Mederer. He owns Racing Beat.

Jim owns land speed records from driving RX-7s on the salt flats. If you have seen this car

upside down- that was Jim. He fixed the car then went back and set the record.

the guy that designed the Furai- Franz Von Holzhausen- became the head of design for Tesla, finished the design for the Model S and designed the Model X

Kevin Barrett > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 19:21

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I think if it had to go, being burned to ground by Top Gear driving stupidly fast is what we would the car would have wanted, instead of sitting in a museum and rotting.

If the article had to contain hasty editing mistakes, these are what we would the readers would have wanted.

GhostZ > VashVashVash 09/10/2013 at 19:22

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I looked up the weight of the Judd V10, and it's around 135 dry and 150 wet and with exhaust, making it a 330lb motor. That's probably very close to the 3 rotor, actually. So while it didn't lose weight, it's definitely not heavier than the original motor. An F1 engine weighs about the same too, this coming year. They weighed about 200lbs this year.

But just so you know, those engines are incredibly light. Most engines are well over 400 lbs, and most production high performance motors are over 600. Here are some weight numbers for other high-performance production engines:

426 Hemi weighs 800 lbs.
Chevy 454 weighs 700 lbs.
Nissan L24 weighs 550 lbs.
Ford Windsor V8 weighs 500 lbs.
RB26DETT weighs at least 600 lbs.
2JZ weighs about 550 lbs.
Small Block Chevy weighs around 550-600lbs.
13B rotary Twin Turbo: 350 lbs (the 3 rotor is probably close to this)

Axel-Ripper > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 09/10/2013 at 19:24

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I'm sorry, did you say something? I couldn't hear you over the growl of this V16

GhostZ > McLarry 09/10/2013 at 19:26

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The transmission was a serious liability on top speed (aerodynamics wasn't the limiting factor) and RWD+light = bad 0-60 time. 3 seconds is still about as good as you can do with a RWD track car. The Koenigsegg Agera R has 700HP on it, but is only .3 seconds faster 0-60.

945T > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 09/10/2013 at 19:29

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No, it just looks like a teen-aged old car trying to look like its from the future.

MoparOrNoCar (Okay, maybe a Mazda?) > Rows His Own 09/10/2013 at 19:29

2

Oh my god do I wish they'd made it.

I went full-on tryhard to get it in the first Test Drive Unlimited game, and continued to drive it (and the Firepower) for everything in that game.

exizeo - still loving fourza > Mechanix 09/10/2013 at 19:39

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The GarageRedux Furai (driven by VVV Worm, etc. top 10 LBers) held nearly 40 #1 positions on the R2 leaderboards at one point. Maybe more. I don't know. And those glorious badasses put it up open-source. It's easily one of my favorite R2 hopper lobby cars and just for derping about.

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/ShowThr…

volkSWAGen > Rows His Own 09/10/2013 at 19:48

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Actually, they built one customer car for Ludacris.

BearSquatch > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 19:48

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repost error

BearSquatch > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 19:48

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E100 has been used in Brazil since the 70s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_et…

GhostZ > BearSquatch 09/10/2013 at 19:51

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I should have specified rotary engine. I edited that in to make more sense.

Union of Smog Techs of CA > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 19:52

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It killed itself because while it's nice and all, IT"S NOT A 4 ROTOR AND IT NEVER GOT TO GO RACING!

Rows His Own > MoparOrNoCar (Okay, maybe a Mazda?) 09/10/2013 at 19:53

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I remember the Firepower! Article from car and driver. I must have been 12 when that article came back. What a gracefully aging car, and I still remember every detail about it. Compared to the XLR at the time, holy shit would this have been a sight. And I hate virtually 95% of all American vehicles ever. But it would have Stolen already scarce viper sales. Funny how it sort of resembles the newest viper though. Photo credit to C/D

Nate Gnau > Bandit 09/10/2013 at 19:54

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I just died a little (okay, a lot) inside reading this. Damnit, TG...

DailyTurismo > Sunshine Supercars 09/10/2013 at 19:55

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2010 Historics. Good times!

Rows His Own > volkSWAGen 09/10/2013 at 19:55

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It was the second prototype car if I remember though. And you can't convince me that he isn't a jalop. I wonder if he played a hand in acquiring the CCXR pair at the end of Fast Five.

DatHoonDoe > McLarry 09/10/2013 at 19:59

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The top speed is low because the tranny was geared for acceleration and not top speed. The 0-60 is greatly affected by the fact that in a car this light the rear wheels will have no traction. So on take off it would spin the wheels given that it's RWD but once you got it rolling though, it was viciously quick.

Fatamericanstig > Cloud81918 09/10/2013 at 20:05

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"first ever rotary engine racecar designed to run on E100" I had to do a double take as well. I did a little research and I couldn't find any mention of any other examples except for maybe some home built jobs. I could be mistaken though.

Grant.Eat.Airplane > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 20:17

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Mazda needs to make the next great Supercar

Gaseous Clay > Telumektar 09/10/2013 at 20:18

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I sure hope you know that the FIA didn't ban rotaries after the 787B won, they changed to an entirely new engine formula for the following year, effectively banning EVERY car that competed in '91, and that that was a change that they had had in the works before the 24h even took place, right? In fact, rotary-engined cars were never explicitly banned, ever. 1992 required all teams in that class to use 3.5l F1 engines, and since Mazda had none, they were out (Incidentally I think F1 at the time did rule out rotaries, but it wasn't ever because a plucky upstart won a race of attrition). In any period since that didn't require a specific engine formula, (i.e. 3.5l F1 engines) rotaries have been a-ok as far as the french-biased scum at the FIA and ACO have been concerned. If only Peugeot had ever built a rotary-engined car we might have seen some real competitive development of them (what with Mazda also developing) and maybe they'd even have gotten a huge performance advantage like diesels did/still do when pug decided to go that route

abaker1012 > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 20:23

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I'd rather them keep the rotary, just because

Nitzer Ebblestone > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 20:24

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zoomzoom...

Lothar > Lothar 09/10/2013 at 20:38

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Mea culpa. I thought it said "including"

5ohbrad > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 20:38

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Yeah, but a new Mustang V6 only costs...I'll see myself out.

WZAnon > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 20:43

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Ghostz said it. I'd rather see Mazda make another Furai to be run around tracks and taken around other events than propped up as some "could have been".

scorpio516 > WarShrike 09/10/2013 at 20:54

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Cause they were only sold in Japan.

Cause they only sold 8800 JC Cosmos total.

Cause they only sold 3500 with the 20B, the rest had the 13B-REW (2 years before the FD came out with it)

Cause they were really expensive, especially for being launched just before their economy fell apart.

Take your pick ;)

AudiAudiOxenFree > 5ohbrad 09/10/2013 at 21:03

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I lol'ed

rxe7en > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 21:03

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Rotary.

rxe7en > Telumektar 09/10/2013 at 21:04

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Let the rotary back in to LeMans you weenies!

dutchbag > McLarry 09/10/2013 at 21:07

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Yeah, 0-60 times, top speed, and lateral acceleration are not the best performance metrics for all-out racecars. The edges of the performance envelope depend a lot on tires, conditions, and car setup. You really have to sacrifice a lot to maximize each of those performance metrics.

MoparOrNoCar (Okay, maybe a Mazda?) > Rows His Own 09/10/2013 at 21:09

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The thing I love... The car wasn't a total waste... The engine's the 6.1L Hemi, the Hemi used in the SRT Charger/Grand Cherokee/300 SRTs. It was a prototype for the engine, sadly not the whole car though.

It sounded great in TDU though.

Kawaii-Gon Jinn > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 21:25

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is this because of my 'it's only a model' crack?

GhostZ > Kawaii-Gon Jinn 09/10/2013 at 21:28

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Haha, I saw that post (and it twas a good one!) , but no, I just wanted to post about it anyway since a lot of people seemed to not know it existed.

ThatbastardKurtis > Rows His Own 09/10/2013 at 21:37

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The Firepower would have been an interesting study of having a v8 engine in a Viper chassis. I think Mercedes killed it off because they new that it had potential. Just like the Dodge Charger Concept, which was a 4 Door "Coupe", well before Mercedes coined the term.

GatorEight > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 21:37

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RIP Furai!!!!! You will forever own the heart of this enthusiast.

Kawaii-Gon Jinn > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 21:52

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with the furai gone, we'll have to make due with the nagare design of the Mazda5.

Rows His Own > ThatbastardKurtis 09/10/2013 at 21:52

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I think it would have done well personally, and I'm a massive critic of most American designed sports cars. Honestly the viper would probably be more capable with a high output v8 like the ls7. The zo6 is so much more manageable than the zr1.

Rows His Own > MoparOrNoCar (Okay, maybe a Mazda?) 09/10/2013 at 21:54

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And holy cow an American sports car with a powerful motor that didnt require 5 gajillion liters of displacement. It made the shitty crossfire look like an even bigger turd. How they made that and not this, I will not ever know

300hp30mpgrwdfor30k > Sparf 09/10/2013 at 21:55

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Hahahaha, Holy shit!

300hp30mpgrwdfor30k > Telumektar 09/10/2013 at 21:59

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They should add 3D printing rotary blocks so there's no seal to fail. That'd be badass if possible.

Formula4speed > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 22:08

1

If I had infinite dollars, this would be my daily driver. I would have it reconstructed exactly and I would drive it every damn day.

The Stig's graphic designer cousin > Bandit 09/10/2013 at 22:10

0

That thread says that it burned at the goodwood festival in 2010.

M.L. Lapid > Grant.Eat.Airplane 09/10/2013 at 22:14

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-> A great supercar that will slot above the next RX-#.

1. Mazda Furai RC (Road Car) $$$$$

2. Mazda RX-# $$$$

3. Mazda MX-5 Miata Super20/Mazdaspeed/MPS $$$

4. Mazdaspeed 3 $$

5. Mazda MX-5 Miata $

^ Perfect World! :)

reddude7 > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 22:17

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it looks droopy

reddude7 > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 22:19

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THIS CAR WAS SO COOL

i just want a giant model or two dozen for my home, and a painting for above the fireplace, and i want my house to be built in the shape of the car

MoparOrNoCar (Okay, maybe a Mazda?) > Rows His Own 09/10/2013 at 22:39

1

If I was in charge of Chrysler, we'd still be hearing about them and how awesome they are.


Also, the ME Four-Twelve would've been on-par with the Veyron with top speed if it had been made how it was conceptualized.

Cloud81918 > Fatamericanstig 09/10/2013 at 22:54

0

It was edited. It didn't say that at first.

Dsscats > Rows His Own 09/10/2013 at 23:14

2

It's like a Chrysler R8!

Rows His Own > Dsscats 09/10/2013 at 23:17

0

It's reminds me of the Apollo, strangely enough. It was a great and very forward design on their part.

Rows His Own > MoparOrNoCar (Okay, maybe a Mazda?) 09/10/2013 at 23:18

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Quad turbo v12 with significantly less weight than the humble bug. It would have been a show stopper, that's for absolute sure.

Fatamericanstig > Cloud81918 09/10/2013 at 23:19

0

Yeah, I noticed after I posted. SILLY ME.

JasonStern911 > GhostZ 09/10/2013 at 23:30

1

It was a running prototype

Rotary engine, was running... I believe this.