Neighbourhood VW XL1 – some more impressions

"m2m, apex detective" (m2m)
09/07/2013 at 11:56 • Filed to: DOTS, XL1, VW, hybrid

This morning I couldn't resist taking some more shots of the VW company !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . There are a few shots that go a long way to show just how much the actual size differs from the perceived size in press shots etcetera.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

To give this come context: I'm just about 5'10" short.

Fig. A: normal bike; abnormal car.

The Skoda Citigo (=Up!) on the left-hand side seems much bigger. Feels weird.

Quite a few people have walked by to take a look at the car at this point; many felt obliged to point out that one should not "pay that much for so little". Yeah, you guys totally got the idea of a technology showcase. The girls mostly disliked the looks from what I heard, while the boys would compare its price to 5 ½ VW Golf ... which must be the German version of "you could buy x V6 Mustangs for that!"

Bonus: random BMW 5er nose peeking out behind a wall and some trash cans ... the Diesel xDrive wagon next door.

DISCUSSION (72)

zadtheinhaler > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 12:08

That looks like I would have to fold myself up to get into it.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 12:10

Kinja'd!!!

soon...

GhostZ > zadtheinhaler
09/07/2013 at 12:11

Gull wing doors, yo. Easy to get in and out.

Also, perspective messes with your mind. I think the image where the guy is next to it, he's standing closer to the end of that long sloping tail (seriously, this car is like, 35% trunk) than to the door.

It's still probably small and flat, but it really doesn't look too hard to get in and out of to me.

Matthew Henry > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 12:14

Nice photos.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 12:15

That's looks like a hyper-mileage car that I use to build back in my college days!

Aaron Brown > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 12:15

You from Germany?

davedave1111 > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 12:16

Yeah, what you're showing there is the reason why the XL-1 is really rather disappointing. It's always been easy to build an economical car if you compromise everything else to do it, so the XL-1 hasn't really done anything new. It gets marginally better real-world economy than a Polo that costs about a tenth of what it does and is actually a proper car.

I would almost go as far as to say the XL-1 is no more than a marketing stunt.

That said, I'd still stop to gawp if there was one in my neighbourhood :)

m2m, apex detective > GhostZ
09/07/2013 at 12:16

This guy got to sit in it yesterday ... let me just tell you that I prepared for a sportscar-like seating position, only to drop a few inches still. I'd easily bet that you sit lower than you do in a stock Elise now. Look at the picture with the Suzuki bike and you get the general idea ...

Getting out of the door isn't much of a task, it's getting across the MP4-esquely massive door sills that makes this an interesting exercise.

desertdog5051 > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 12:16

What are all those bins in pic 3? Recycling?

m2m, apex detective > desertdog5051
09/07/2013 at 12:20

2x recycling, residual waste, paper, green waste. Don't worry, that's just Germany.

desertdog5051 > desertdog5051
09/07/2013 at 12:25

We have curbside recycling here but it mostly goes in one container. Jail inmates sort it out. You know, lazy Americans they would not do it if it had to be sorted.

m2m, apex detective > davedave1111
09/07/2013 at 12:26

Much of this is true ... it's more of a tour de force than it is a proper car. It feels alright from the inside, and the trunk behind the engine room is big enough for a crate of beer ... but it'll be mighty warm after a short while.

They will eventually put this kind of drivetrain and engine into more mundane cars, there's already some pondering about stuffing it into the Up!/Citigo/Mii. Heck, it could probably power the current Polo, too.

It's a bit like what they did with the Veyron. They wanted to create a car with a very specific talent. Now they just need to build on what they've learned here.

m2m, apex detective > Aaron Brown
09/07/2013 at 12:26

You could say that.

m2m, apex detective > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW.
09/07/2013 at 12:44

You might want to speak to VW then. ;)

Aaron Brown > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 12:49

Wolfsburg?

trynthink > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 12:54

Nice pictures. I know your point was to illustrate just how small the XL1 is, but I still like it.

Maybe it's not very Jalop, but I really like the styling and size of the XL1. It reminds me a lot of the GM EV1. Something about the one box shape and concept car styling says "I'm from the future" in the best way possible. I wish VW were planning on making more of them.

Fred Smith > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 13:09

The XL1 continues to amaze me. Proof that cars don't need to be fast to be incredible, they just need to be high quality and unique.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 13:23

No, not the design. The size.

I was expecting the car would be as big as an Exige. But it's look like a hyper-mileage car from some college.

But still, I do want one.

m2m, apex detective > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW.
09/07/2013 at 14:56

There's not exactly much room in there, but I personally found the seat to be just the right size for me. Snug and with all the support you'll never need ... although the engineer told me that the narrow wheels still offer a surprising amount of grip.

I'd drive one, too, though.

inefficient > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 16:00

I keep expecting to see Jeff Bridges in these photos somewhere.

For Sweden > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 16:00

Must...hoon...

BeetleCamry > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 16:04

These images look like they are straight out of a movie thats set in the future.

Speedmonkey > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 16:37

Sat in one at Goodwood. It's tiny, but the cabin is not too bad size wise

zMrManz > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 16:43

Why are there two gas caps?

gre12 > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 16:48

I've seen one in downtown Berlin several times during the past few weeks, always plated Wolfsburg, but can't actually remember what number it was. One day it was standing at the red light, and next to it there was a GL... Being in the XL1 must've been frightening, in that moment.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 16:48

Call me crazy, but I think an XL1, minus electric power with a more aggresively tuned 3.6 VR6 would be an amazing supercar.

Ce he sin > zMrManz
09/07/2013 at 17:08

Electricity one side, diesel the other?

WOB-SAM > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 17:36

So you retouched the German Registration.....

Volkswagen Osnabrueck...

Hopefully your Neighbour knows and likes your little Photoshoot....

;)

m2m, apex detective > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7
09/07/2013 at 17:40

You'd want a wide-body conversion for that ... I don't think this car's track is any good if you aim to attack corners, too. Besides, remove batteries and e-drivetrain and there's the ideal engine compartment for a bike engine.

The existing cooling seems intricate and effective enough to cope with the resulting heat. Also, 200 hp in a ~650-690 kg car (it should weigh around 800 kg with the battery pack and extra engines/gear now) should be plenty fun.

m2m, apex detective > zMrManz
09/07/2013 at 17:42

Plug-in hybrid setup. One's for accessing the Diesel tank, the other offers a charging socket for the battery pack.

m2m, apex detective > gre12
09/07/2013 at 17:49

I don't think it is any scarier than ye olde Elise or MX-5 ... the monocoque construction should make for decent impact energy absorption in case of a crash.

Every example of the car I've seen so far had WOB-XL-1** plates on it ... there should be a few dozen around by now.

Ce he sin > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 18:04

The only thing worse than reversing a car with that price tag and no rear visibility except for two little screens out of that garage would be reversing it in there.

m2m, apex detective > Ce he sin
09/07/2013 at 18:08

It's not that bad really ... you get a phalanx of parking sensors and the two cameras that act as mirrors have a slightly aspherical lens to offer a wider FOV.

m2m, apex detective > Aaron Brown
09/07/2013 at 18:09

Nope ... it's just that all the XL1s probably rock WOB-XL-*** vanity plates.

m2m, apex detective > trynthink
09/07/2013 at 18:14

The materials used for the XL1 are still too expensive for now, but I'm sure they'll take away some know-how from this project; the idea of a microscopic 2-cyl. Diesel will very likely make an appearance elsewhere, too.

I have no real problem with the size, it's the way to get proper economy and little weight. Nobody will ever develop an economical vehicle the shape of a BMW X5 with 20" wheels and 305-section rubber. ;)

m2m, apex detective > Speedmonkey
09/07/2013 at 18:16

I can safely claim that a 6'5" man won't fit in there ... not unless you get rid of the driver-side door altogether. Let's just call it snug and driver-focused. ;)

m2m, apex detective > For Sweden
09/07/2013 at 18:16

I wish. No can do for insurance reasons.

m2m, apex detective > WOB-SAM
09/07/2013 at 18:26

VW bought most of the existing facilities from Karmann Osnabrueck iirc, so this shouldn't be much of a surprise. They are now producing the 981 Boxster and Cayman there.

To calm your privacy concerns: We got a brief intro to the car and I got to gawk at all the CFK marvel that's the monocoque construction and engine bay. It's not like it's a privately run car, too; it's part of a fleet out to collect some real-world data. That said, I do feel that full plates shouldn't normally be shown unless it's your car and you don't mind them being visible for everyone.

//edit: I just saw that you actually got to drive one, now I'm moderately jealous. :)

Speedmonkey > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 18:39

I'll post pics

Speedmonkey > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 18:40

XL1 interior

Kinja'd!!!

davedave1111 > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 18:45

I mostly agree with you, but I'd say the problem is precisely that it's not a tour de force. They didn't go far enough.

I don't know, maybe I'm being too harsh, and what they've actually shown is that you hit the wall of diminishing returns too hard when you try to go as far as they did. The thing is, for all the carbon fibre and so-on, they're barely doing any better in economy terms than you'd expect from the most economical Polo if it was moving similarly small bodywork through the air.

zMrManz > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 18:59

Ahhhhh that makes sense. Thanks!

m2m, apex detective > davedave1111
09/07/2013 at 19:00

Point taken. Getting rid of the batteries and some of the electronics would probably yield better results than something like replacing the mirrors with cameras ... but this way it just looks way more futuristic.

If they manage to put this engine in the Up! and create a small car that runs on 2.5l/100km and seats four, I'll certainly allow it.

1337 MR2 > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 19:04

Keyboard warriors unite! (against something unique/new)... Hah! Humans haven't changed since the Internet became popular. "is this new?/ IT MUST BE BAD!!!! EVIL! BAD!" Just like burning witches. So few people stop to consider and contemplate NEW stuff or changes to our sociological norm. It's pathetic. Even Jalops fall victim to this pathetic mindset. C'mon dudeskis... Stop being so fucking negative about EVERYTHING that doesn't have a gasoline engine with a manual (inefficient) transmission, ok? Please?

(yeah right.. way too much to ask of Internet keyboard warriors...)

davedave1111 > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 19:11

Yeah, definitely looks awesome. If it manages to persuade people to accept smaller, lighter vehicles that's definitely a good thing.

m2m, apex detective > 1337 MR2
09/07/2013 at 19:16

Help me out here ... I get excited about finding something new, share photos of it and people leave mostly positive comments. Where's the negativity you speak of? Do you mean the criticism concerning the economy figures or the complains about the relatively diminutive size? It is small, that's how they got it to perform the way it does.

( apologies if this was an attempt at humour that I just did not get. )

word-is-bond > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 19:39

I've never wanted something with so little horsepower so badly. I can't believe anyone is surprised by the price. It's an amazing exercise in engineering. It would be a show-stopping concept car at an auto show, except VW is actually selling it (obviously in extremely exclusive numbers at 200). It's wonderful.

kosmokenny > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 20:17

Rip out the electro guts and slap in a 1 liter ecoboost tuned like they did in that formula 3 car, and put some sticky tires on it. I'll take 3.

DoctorNine > davedave1111
09/07/2013 at 20:20

".. so the XL-1 hasn't really done anything new..."

Yeah, no . Over 200MPG.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100897313

Polo is good, at 60 - 70MPG. Here's a 70MPG car:

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/thinking-…

JCAlan > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 20:29

I LoVE the styling. This thing is sexy! It would make me happy to hear that it also goes 0-60 in like 2 seconds....but hey, it does that gas mileage thing and I guess that's the new cool so whatever. I approve of anything with factory gull wings.

Vincenzo71 > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 20:45

The xl1 is probably a pretty good glimpse of things to come, a little bit like the original Honda Insight was, before all the hybrids that followed it. Now if only these hypermileage car-type-things stayed true to their original designs and aspirations... thinks of Chevy Volt and Honda CR-Z

Vincenzo71 > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 20:50

Great photos, my mind was blown at how small this thing really is.

mikemikemotorbike > m2m, apex detective
09/07/2013 at 23:45

VW makes the first really cool looking, practical diesel hybrid. I like it.

Tobias Benjamin Schrader > m2m, apex detective
09/08/2013 at 02:54

Where did you take the pics? Is that WOB, GF or BS?

Mikeado > m2m, apex detective
09/08/2013 at 06:25

If anything, having the ability to go some of the distance on electric power alone makes it easier to get to a figure as astonishing as 313mpg (1L/100km).

Mikeado > davedave1111
09/08/2013 at 06:26

You think a streamlined Polo would only use 1L of fuel per 100km?!

davedave1111 > DoctorNine
09/08/2013 at 07:19

The OP mentioned in another post that real-world fuel economy is only 90mpg. 200+mpg would indeed be impressive, but as it is the XL-1 actually has fuel economy that's comparable (unfavourably) to a commuter bike - and it's no more practical.

davedave1111 > Mikeado
09/08/2013 at 07:23

No, more like 3l/100km, like the XL-1 actually manages in real-world driving. Have a look at the stuff eco-modders have managed on things like base Civics with cheap aero-mods, and the XL-1 looks distinctly unimpressive: when you have that degree of aero compromise, it's easy to get to around that level.

m2m, apex detective > Tobias Benjamin Schrader
09/08/2013 at 08:38

Pictures were taken near OS, NIE. I think the car only sports WOB plates because it's a VW company vehicle.

m2m, apex detective > Mikeado
09/08/2013 at 08:42

While that's true, it makes it harder to actually reach these figures, too (welp, that's just my experience with hybrid vehicles). My 2.0D DD easily exceeds the factory MPG rating even with some quick driving thrown in.

m2m, apex detective > Vincenzo71
09/08/2013 at 08:45

You make a good point – the XL1 managed the transition from concept to production vehicle amazingly well. I only came up with one other car that stayed so true to its original concept design and ideas: Lexus' LF-A.

The Volt is a huge barge, so its weight might well have negated some of the economy gains.

m2m, apex detective > Mikeado
09/08/2013 at 08:49

I think he referred to cars like the Polo BlueMotion etc.

When you consider the figures set by past economy showcases, the XL1 does indeed pale a bit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VW_Lupo#L…

It still amazes me that this was 1999. Unfortunately it didn't change the market, probably due to being a bit of a slouch. That said, they are becoming increasingly rare now ... and most of them are used for actual driving.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > m2m, apex detective
09/08/2013 at 09:43

Well, because i'm nearly as big as you (175 cm) , I think i'll fits perfectly there.

I wish you could drive it for a long time later!
*So i could see how this car suits me.

Ce he sin > m2m, apex detective
09/08/2013 at 10:46

Not just Germany.My cousin in California has to keep a battery of colour coded bins too.

Ce he sin > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7
09/08/2013 at 10:54

Probably would. I understand that the present version would do about 200 kmh if it wasn't limited due to the lightweight gearbox casing and someone calculated that if you were to fit VW's 2 litre diesel and take out all the hybrid paraphernalia out would do something like 300 - nearly 200 mph.

Mikeado > m2m, apex detective
09/08/2013 at 11:40

Wow, I didn't know about the Lupo 3L. But that's still 3x more fuel consumption :-P

Mikeado > davedave1111
09/08/2013 at 11:42

Which test was this that showed it's nowhere near its target?

m2m, apex detective > Mikeado
09/08/2013 at 12:11

A correct assessment ... and yet I highly doubt that you can drive the XL1 with one litre per 100 kilometres in the real world ... 1.8-2.5 maybe. Factor in the shape and size and it gets a little less wondrous ... still a great exercise and the right step, though. :)

Mikeado > m2m, apex detective
09/08/2013 at 12:29

Considering how long the 1L/L-1/XL-1 has been in development, I refuse to believe that it can't reach its economy target. Like all economy figures I'm not expecting to be able to do it driving flat out with windows down and the HVAC & radio on, but if you try then it must be achievable.

In fact I'm pretty sure the original motorised suppository actually managed it on the autobahn with Herr Piëch at the helm.

m2m, apex detective > Mikeado
09/08/2013 at 12:36

Fair enough ... I wish I could try it out.

davedave1111 > Mikeado
09/08/2013 at 17:00

It's not a target, it's the EU specified fuel-consumption test. It's not uncommon for manufacturers to tune cars to do particularly well on the official test, even at the expense of real-world performance. The XL-1 has always been assumed by cynics to be a particularly blatant example of that, since it appears it was designed from the ground up expressly to game the system. Of course, it's still fundamentally pretty fuel efficient, because it has to be to do well on the test, but no-one expects it to get close to the official figures.

As to the 95mpg real-world figure, that was given by the original poster in his first post about the car.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > m2m, apex detective
09/08/2013 at 20:48

The streamlining is beautiful, Price not so much.