Can Someone Please Talk Me Out of This?

"JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!" (jqj213)
08/24/2013 at 10:59 • Filed to: Craigslist, Nissan, 300ZX, Nissan 300ZX, used car, used, advice

This a 1991 Nissan 300ZX 2+2. It is for sale on my local Craigslist and I am really interested in it. Like, I am ready to run to the bank and get the cash to buy it. Please find some fault in it to get me to stop myself.

The 300ZX is often regarded as one of the best drivers cars of the 90s. The 3.0 litre V6 engine makes 222 HP, quite high for a lightweight drifting machine. This particular one is also very nice because it is the 2+2 model. It has leather seats, T-tops (my favorite feature), cruise control, automatic climate control, power everything, and an anti-theft system. The owner also upgraded it with a new 10-disc CD changer in the hatch (professionally installed at one of the areas best shops.).

This one is being sold by the original owner. That is very rare on a 1991. Currently, it has about 123,000 miles. A few months ago, the vehicle had its 120,000 mile service. That included new brakes, water pump, timing chain, and also new injectors. It also has brand new Michelin tires. The car doesn't leak, the interior is clean, and it barely had any passengers (owner was a single man).

This is what the interior looks like, just this pic is from a different car. The owner has no interior pics. Why? He is in Georgia. The car is sitting in his garage in Sarasota for the past few months.

The owner recently had open-heart surgery and wasn't able to drive the car. The surgery was done in Georgia, not Florida. So, the car is just in a garage.

Now, the bad. The fuse for the radio blew. Now, how hard is that to fix (honestly, because I do not know.) Also, the fuel gauge under-reads. It'll say you have less gas then you actually do. However, the orange fuel light comes on and works great. Lastly, the muffler has a few small holes in it, so it makes a little noise. I love noise but my grandmother hates it.

I ran a Carfax (well, an AutoCheck to be exact) and this is the screenshot.

The car is clean. Mileage is quite low. Honest owner just needs to sell the car to pay off some hospital bills and free up his garage. He is asking $3500 for it. Please find some flaw in it so I don't run to the bank and buy it. Because I really, really do want it.

DISCUSSION (34)

daender > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 11:07

Uhhh...it's the 2+2 so it's heavier and longer? Oh, and from what I remember, the engine bay lacks space to get your hands in there.

Kinja'd!!!

And that's without the turbos.

Computerbudda > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 11:09

Now you've done it. You've put unbelievable pressure on yourself. Now we all know about it and will fight you to get it. It's clean and a good price. Best get it before I do!

Sparf > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 11:10

It's actually a bit heavy, so I wouldn't call it a "lightweight drifting machine", especially since it's the 2+2 (nobody wants a 2+2, because it's longer and heavier). 222 HP is not quite underpowered, but you will find yourself wanting more. It's also a slushbox, and a 90s one at that, which further limits its performance. If you're just going to cruise around in it, it will be fine, but if you have any dreams of drifting or track usage then I'd advise you to get a stick shift 2 seater (turbo or N/A depends on your budget).

Lastly, it's not a Z31, and knowing that will tear at the very fabric of your soul for eternity until you get one.

NinetyQ > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 11:11

Make sure he has the paperwork for that 120,000 mile service. I'm always a little suspicious of people who go through the bother of getting an expensive service like that done and then selling the car for fairly cheap.

Other than that, go for it. Sounds like a good deal. Exhaust stuff is easy to fix and usually not very expensive. Fixing the radio fuse on its own shouldn't be too hard, but figuring out why the fuse blew in the first place (I mean, they only blow when your amps get out of whack somehow) will be the bigger bother. Maybe there wasn't anything wrong though. If the fuse is inside the radio itself, you could probably find another radio for not much money sometime down the line. And finally, the fuel gauge doesn't worry me too much yet. My Audi did that when I bought it. About half a tank was full. But somehow over the years, it has fixed itself for the most part. When full, it almost touches full on the gauge. So yeah.. fuel gauges, who even knows?

Sparf > daender
08/24/2013 at 11:13

That's mostly an issue with the twin turbo from what I've heard, but the N/A is almost as bad.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > daender
08/24/2013 at 11:15

I never realized the 2+2 made it longer... and that is a tight engine bay.. I'm just lucky because my neighbor is a certified Nissan mechanic and has been since 1985... he now owns an independant shop and gives me great discounts.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Sparf
08/24/2013 at 11:17

I never knew the 2+2 added length...

I don't think it'll see much track time.. I would like to drift it in the empty parking lot though....

And the Z31 bit does hurt.. you reminded me of it again

Sparf > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 11:21

Ever since the 2+2 body form was introduced for the Z in 1976 (260Z) it's been longer than the 2 seater. Everything behind the front seats (including the doors) is stretched, which IMO looks awful and ruins the profile of the car. Z enthusiasts have been hating on it ever since it was introduced.

With all that weight and just 222 HP you're probably going to need it to be pretty wet/icy/snowy if you're going to throw it around a bit in a parking lot. Heck, I'm not even sure all Z32 models came with an LSD, so it might not actually have one (meaning no dorifto for you).

Montalvo > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 11:22

If it is a 2+2 get the manual to squeeze all the power from the engine. If it hasn't been extremely well taken care of it is more than likely some horses ran away from the engine compartment. I was looking at one a while ago and I just keep hearing about how repairs and labor on it is an absolute nightmare and finding a qualified person is tough too. The engine bay is absolutely packed and that means the whole thing pretty much needs to come out if something needs to be changed and that drastically increases costs because labor and time. If you are going to spring for it because it is a decent price I would first want to be confident in my ability to work on the car or at least on some minor stuff if you have a bit of cash laying around. If a fuse blew then it just is a simple replacement in the cars fuse box and that should be staring at you when you pop the hood. If it is going to be a DD then I would say either skip it or approach with extreme caution. If it is just going to be a toy that you will add to and call your own then jump on it.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Montalvo
08/24/2013 at 11:27

The mechanic I don't need to worry about really because my neighbor is a certified Nissan mechanic and has been since 1985... he nows own his own shop and always gives us discounts...

It will be a daily driver, but not for very long commutes or anything... I'm talking less than 5,000 miles a year on it.. just going to school (about 6 miles away) and the store (2 miles away). Nothing extreme...

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Sparf
08/24/2013 at 11:28

The 2+2 did come with one as an option... and he did make sure to get it (showed me window sticker with it on there), so it does have LSD...

I was actually wondering why it looked a bit bigger than most 300s I've seen

Montalvo > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 11:33

I would still be cautious but if he has experience on the 300 then it is a valuable asset to have and I would buy the guy a case of beers each time its in the shop because it sure as hell must not be too fun to work on it and there are times when shops just straight up refuse to work on them. I can only imagine what the TT one would be like.

Sparf > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 11:39

Actually, the body type wasn't a trim level. The only trim levels were 300ZX and 300ZX Twin Turbo in all markets, with the 2 seater and 2+2 being identical apart from the obvious differences between them. Here in Europe I believe we never got the 2 seater Z32, just like never got the 2 seater Z31, and that sucks...

Anyways, good to hear that it has an LSD, because that considerably increases its hoonage potential.

Still, if you're forced to go with an automatic it might be better to go with something with a V8, since all that torque means the lack of manual shifting won't be much of an issue. I've also noticed that when it comes to getting performance and fun out of a car with a slushbox nothing beats an American V8 muscle/pony car.

Sparf > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 11:43

See my edit if you missed it.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Sparf
08/24/2013 at 11:45

Alright.... now I get it... I thought it was a trim level like a VW Golf 2 door or 4 door

Two different cars entirely..

I drove a 91 Volvo 240 sedan with an auto... that was slow... anything beats that...

6cyl > Sparf
08/24/2013 at 11:53

For some reason there is actually increased demand for 2+2 z32's. People like to put the twin turbo motor in or do the conversion and use it for drag racing because of the longer wheel base.

Sparf > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 11:54

You're quite heavy on the triple punctuations, feeling down?

What I was saying is that they're the same car, just like for instance the CTS-V sedan, coupe and wagon. When you said "the 2+2 did come with one as an option" it sounded like you thought they were different in some way.

How about a Camaro or Firebird from the 80s/90s? That's 2+2 with a V8 in a pretty roomy engine bay with more aftermarket support than almost any other car. Actually, between 1986 and 1992 the biggest (best) engine for the Camaro/Firebird, the 350 cubic inch (5.7 liter) L98 TPI (Tuned Port Injection, which can also be found in the C4 Corvette) was only available with a 4-speed slushbox! Also, not only is the aftermarket huge, but parts are also very cheap in the US meaning you can easily upgrade it without breaking your budget.

Sparf > 6cyl
08/24/2013 at 11:55

That makes sense I guess, but in track/drift circles it's generally viewed as inferior.

Brian Tschiegg > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 12:01

Oppo talk you out of buying a cool car that you like and seems like a reasonable deal?

Kinja'd!!!

6cyl > Sparf
08/24/2013 at 12:11

Yeah in those circles the top pick is the rare 300zx slick top because: more rigid and lighter

6cyl > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 12:16

Don't buy. Why? Because if it looks too good to be true it usually is. That price is really way on the low end for a clean z32 with no mechanical issues which probably means there are some hidden gremlins in there (So don't get the car wet).

Also is said that you have a mechanic that works on Nissans while that may be good for now if you ever move out of town or he does be prepared to have to sell the car. It really is that hard to find people willing to work on them. I have had multiple shops just tell me that they will not work on it. That is like walking up to some one and asking of they want a thousand dollars and they just run away screaming. Something is wrong with this picture.

Next if you have any dreams of being able to work on your own car and actually fix things this is a terrible car for that. As someone on one of the forums once said "to do any repairs you have to take off a part, to see that part that you must remove, to get to the part you want to replace." This happens to be true. Sometimes worse.

Next parts. Why are fuel injectors so much more expensive for the 300zx than they are for my BMW e30? I have no idea and it makes no damn sense. In fact it seems like nearly all the parts for that car are more expensive than for the e30; which itself is not exactly a cheap car to own.

So if you are still interested in this car go take it for a test drive. However if you notice anything wrong, run away. There is a reason the price is so low be very careful. And if you have lost your mind and want to buy it for gods sake take it to a good, trustworthy, mechanic first.

Ask me how I know

Atomic Buffalo > Sparf
08/24/2013 at 12:21

To be fair, this generation Z 2+2 is probably the best looking 2+2 job in all of autodom. Most people can spot a 280Z 2+2 from a mile away as being "off" but this one is indistinguishable to all but the cognoscenti unless you park a 2+2 next to a 2-seater... and even then people see the What but not always the How.

But to the OP, do not buy this car. This is a very good grand touring machine, not a drifter. Sure, it CAN drift, but so can a pickup truck with the right pumpkin and bald tires. This Z is NOT for hooning. You will ruin it and you will not be happy. Get the Japanese Firebird Z31 that you really want.

6cyl > Sparf
08/24/2013 at 12:28

The N/A is for the most part just as bad. Of course if you need to do any turbo maintenance on the TT car that is a real PITA but that is pretty much the only thing worse about that motor.

Dunnik > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 12:32

I'd say go for it as well - entirely due to the fact that you have a friend who is a Nissan mech. I've also heard that mechanics avoid this car because it is so difficult to work on, but if your buddy is willing and able...and you, as another Oppo mentioned, are willing to buy him a case of beer now and again, then it could work.

Otherwise, the price seems fair, and the car seems pretty mint. One confirmed owner is always a good sign. Personally, always lusted after the 300ZX from the 90's, and the car's looks have aged well.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Mosqvich > NinetyQ
08/24/2013 at 12:35

It is possible the owner planned on keeping it and had the service down. And shazam, life happened and the surgery changed his life. Just a thought.

6cyl > 6cyl
08/24/2013 at 12:35

Forgot to add something. More cars are designed by a group of engineers and mechanics. When they designed this car 3d computers had become available and they used a supercomputer to help design the car. Rumor has it that this is one of the first cars to be fully designed on a computer. So it was not so much designed by people that are used to building and working on cars but rather computer techs that were very good at Tetris. This is the reason it is so hard to work on.

NinetyQ > Mosqvich
08/24/2013 at 12:38

Yeah, I know. And I understand that things come up, but it's always safer to be skeptical when buying a car. It's a good deal as it is, but if that service hasn't been done, all the sudden it turns into just an okay deal. At that point he might be better off walking and buying something else if he's not prepared to spend the time or money replacing belts, water pump, etc.

If he had that service done just a few months ago at a dealer or something, he should still have the paperwork.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Mosqvich
08/24/2013 at 12:40

That is exactly what happened... he had a heart attack and learned it was much much worse. He went up to GA to be with family during it and the car has been locked in garage since.. he had all intentions of driving it to the ground... he doesn't want to sell it, but has no need since he owns a 350Z, Jeep, and F-150 too...

Mosqvich > NinetyQ
08/24/2013 at 12:44

I totally agree on the paperwork. That's the real answer. I'm typically a glass-half-full kind of guy. My wife balances it out by being the skeptic, or as she prefers to call herself, the realist.

davedave1111 > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 13:07

You can tell it's a bad plan because when you asked Oppo to talk you out of it, they actually did. If it was a properly Jalop vehicle, you'd get the opposite response : http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/guess-what-im-… - everyone tried to talk me into it :)

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Kookanoodles > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 13:23

Does it help if I say it looks great ?

GhostZ > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
08/24/2013 at 14:28

Think of it this way: with the gear ratios it has and the (relatively) low power for the weight and grip, the n/a 300zx is worse at breaking rear traction than most trucks or sedans that have shorter gear ratios and less grip and weight.

Replacing fuses for the car is a piece of cake (never did it myself but I have on several other Nissans) and they usually blow because people don't regularly clean them. It's a very common problem for the fuses in 90s Nissans to just blow randomly, and they can be an electrical nightmare if someone inexperienced tries to run wires or do stereo work.

Don't drift this thing in an empty parking lot. Not only does it really not have that much power for its tires/weight to drift, but it may not have an limited slip differential and definitely doesn't have enough power if it lacks one.

Hell, don't drift this thing at all . Drifting relies on a lack of grip and a high amount of feel and feedback. This is a grand tourer. Go get a first-gen RX-7 or 280z if you want to drift.

I recommend getting this:

Kinja'd!!!

You can pick up a 280zx that's in about as good shape (it will be older, obviously) for the same cost but has a much much much more simple motor. It has about the same p/w ratio, with a bit more if you can find a turbo 280zx. They weigh a lot less.

Kinja'd!!!

A 280z is another option, but expect to pay more and get more rust.

The LSD becomes an issue when you put more grip and weight behind less power (as the 300zx has) whereas the front-heavy, narrow-tire, high-torque 280z and 280zx both are more conducive to amateur drifting.

Sparf > 6cyl
08/24/2013 at 17:15

Yup, and I similarly desire a JDM Z31 slicktop.

Duval Wheels > Sparf
08/24/2013 at 17:44

Actually the 2+2 twin turbo puts down better track times due to it's longer wheelbase and better weight distribution. I have a fully built twin turbo 2+2 that gets 900 whp on 93 octane. These are amazing cars for the track and for the streets. Look great, get complements EVERYWHERE I go, and you are owning a piece of history. The Z32 was the first car ever designed with CAD. If you want it to be a twin turbo, you have to do the swap yourself or get it done, but its well worth it. The look on GTR and Lambo owners faces when they have a hard time staying on the same lap as me at the track is what makes it all worthwhile. As an investment, NO. As a purchase for an amazing platform to build a home made super car, absolutely. And yes, teh 2+2 is 19 inches longer. The changes begin half way through the sunroof/roofline.