Toyota FJ cruiser

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone) 08/20/2013 at 14:43 • Filed to: None

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!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Another Toyota with personality bites the dust.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 08/20/2013 at 14:45

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I never liked the way these look.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 08/20/2013 at 14:47

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Me either, I think this means less of a reason for Ford to get off their ass and build a Bronco though. If no one is buying in this segment it's not going to motivate them.

And now I is sad.

J. Walter Weatherman > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 08/20/2013 at 14:47

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:(

..and the number of true 4x4s available with a manual transmission shrinks yet again.

I wonder if the Xterra will follow in its footsteps. That thing is what, 8 years old now, with no replacement in sight?

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 08/20/2013 at 14:48

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Who cares? It wasn't boring.

Ok, have a Venza.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 08/20/2013 at 14:49

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All Ford needs to do is make a SWB Raptor with a 2 door suv body on it.

J. Walter Weatherman > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 08/20/2013 at 14:49

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Their looks were not great. But they were pretty fantastic and utilitarian trucks. I believe I recently read that they have the lowest depreciation out of any car on the market right now.

crown victor victoria > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 08/20/2013 at 14:49

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Another Toyota with low sales volume bites the dust.

They sold well at first but were only like 13,000 units in north america last year. Not enough interest from consumers to justify major improvement.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 08/20/2013 at 14:50

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I agree, now if you could convince them to get off their ass and build it I'd gladly get a second mortgage on my house to buy one.

Blondude > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 08/20/2013 at 14:50

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Aww man, one of the few Toyotas that wasn't a beige people-mover.

crown victor victoria > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 08/20/2013 at 14:51

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I saw one the other day that had an aftermarket set of front and rear bumpers and it looked way better. All that plastic...too Tonka-ish.

J. Walter Weatherman > crown victor victoria 08/20/2013 at 14:52

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Yeah, not many cars out there can sustain serious levels of sales when the go essentially unchanged for 8 years...

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > J. Walter Weatherman 08/20/2013 at 14:55

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That car is related with the global X-trail, and since Nissan said they may do a new one, I guess the Xterra will get a new generation, but will be less rugged.

This could be a patent filling of it, or is the next Rogue, I don't know.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > J. Walter Weatherman 08/20/2013 at 14:58

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wow fascinating. I do respect them for their capabilities. But I would never want one, haha.

SonorousSpeedJoe > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 08/20/2013 at 15:02

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I'm going to miss those three windshield wipers.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 08/20/2013 at 15:04

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here's an MSpaint-chop I did some time ago.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 08/20/2013 at 15:05

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and conventional doors:

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 08/20/2013 at 15:05

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I think I remember seeing some of this. I LOVED it.

Though it was also love at first site with this:

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 08/20/2013 at 15:06

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yeah I was super excited about this concept.

J. Walter Weatherman > crown victor victoria 08/20/2013 at 15:10

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Yeah, the interiors were the same way - some pretty nice elements (the seats in particular were fantastic), but then they muck it up with some really awful child's-toy-looking plastic bits. There is plastic molded to look like diamond plate all over the place that looked incredibly tacky (the entire cargo area, for one), and the dash was overstyled and ugly (tried too hard to LOOK utilitarian, rather than just BE utilitarian and have beauty through its simplicity).

The whole car suffered from Toyota trying to hard to style it. The car, in and of itself, was the utilitarian, and no amount of plastic bits were going to change that - form follows function and the basic elements of the car were pretty attractive by simple virtue of the utilitarian underpinnings. The plastic additions just went too far. The designers just couldn't get out of their own way on that one.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 08/20/2013 at 15:11

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I'm actually fine with it being a standard 2 door. Without the extra opening. Will be much easier with kids to have the half doors though.

HammerheadFistpunch > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 08/20/2013 at 15:14

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The car itself is a great car and is well loved (try to buy one used) but its all wrong.

1. its a styling exercise on a tacoma

2. its not a land cruiser which is should have been (not really a big deal)

3. related to #1; what the hell? The BJ/FJ40 looks like it does because it had function, the FJ cruiser looks like it does because a stylist though it should look like an BJ/FJ40 but it fails because it doesn't have good viability and its function is significantly hampered. Form over function = land cruiser.

4. Its not the markets fault, 4 door Wranglers are flying off the lot.

Frankly I'm not surprised that another halfhearted/half supported effort from Toyota is going away. Here is what Toyota needs to do:

1. Use the Tacoma frame but bring back solid axles in front

2. Make at least 2 models: Wagon and 2 door. Make the wagon a real wagon, i.e. a tacoma 5 door and the 2 door a REAL 2 door with removable top. Preferably make a third model that is a truck, single cab chassis cab only

3. Give it a @#$ %@# diesel!

4. Call them Land Cruisers: 2 door, Land Cruiser BJ. Wagon, Land Cruiser FJ. and Truck, Land Cruiser HJ.

Ideally, what They should do it make Land Cruiser a brand and sell the 200 series as the Land Cruiser, the truck, wagon and 2 door as above and then create a new sport model that is semi-unibody and street oriented to compete with the range rover sport.

There are 2 reasons the Jeep and Land Rover and eating your lunch:

1. no meaningful updates

2. too far upmarket to support the brand. That doesn't mean you need to make them cheaper, just appeal more to this guy

and less to this guy (gal)

When I say that I mean that you can make the product expensive (check out a 4 door wrangler rubicon price sheet) but that it should appeal to the true offroader even if they will only cruiser the mall.

Im my ideal world I see a 5 model Land Cruiser brand:

1. BJ

2. FJ

3. HJ

4. Series XXX (i.e. series 200)

5. Sport model

Then Toyota can kill off their SUV heavy line, and lexus can kill off a few of its slow movers (the LX560, GX470). The 4runner is a well enough sell to leave it alone, but it could go a little more mainstream and boost Toyota's cafe score by ditching its frame and going tough unibody (perfect platform for the Land Cruiser sport model, btw)

Maybe Im just crazy.

HeelToe Do-See-Do > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 08/20/2013 at 15:14

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I drove one when I was in the market for a 4x4 and it felt huge. Just chunky. I wound up buying a Jeep Unlimited. I sooo wanted to like the FJ cruiser cause I think the styling is neat and I loved my Tacoma, but I just couldn't pull the trigger on it.

J. Walter Weatherman > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 08/20/2013 at 15:16

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I go off-road a bit (camping, mountain biking, etc.) and have a need for a 4x4, so I looked at these pretty strongly. There is a lot to love about the cars, and I was strongly considering getting one, despite my dislike of a number of the styling elements. I wound up getting an Xterra instead - they were cheaper, had more cargo space, and a bit more neutral styling.

HammerheadFistpunch > J. Walter Weatherman 08/20/2013 at 15:18

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exactly, there is still a market out there, check used prices on FJ's. They just need to update.

WhiskeyGolf > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 08/20/2013 at 15:34

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Too bad. I like to think my future garage will be filled with either one of these or old school 'Cruiser, Discovery or Defender. I like the ruggedness of them.

crown victor victoria > HammerheadFistpunch 08/20/2013 at 16:00

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The used prices are in turn driven up by low supply, since they really only cracked bigger numbers in the first two years of sales, and that can be owed largely to novelty.

And I'm sure Toyota did the math. If there was enough interest to make financial sense for an update, I think they'd have done it. Plus, some of the people buying used FJs were going to buy used to begin with. They don't factor into the new car discussion unless you can price these into the territory that gets their attention. And "inexpensive" was never one of the things that the FJ was known for. They start at $27k, and that's a 4x2 MT. The base Wrangler is $22.3k, and 4WD with a better engine.

I think they could compete on quirk and the initial interest, and were at parity in capability, but not on price, and that's proven to a degree in the sales dropoff.

HammerheadFistpunch > crown victor victoria 08/20/2013 at 16:06

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I agree with your second part in that the FJ was too complex to make and too expensive. It was convinced in a time when Toyota philosophy was to have at least one "fun car" in the lineup. Don't be confused though, for a while the v6 rav4 was the "fun car".

What Toyota needs to do is size up the market and make it competitive; Truly rugged, modular build, with inexpensive processes and unique features, not gimmicks.

In regards to the first point, I do really believe there is a market competitor to the 4 door wrangler blitz, and Toyota has all the parts it needs.

crown victor victoria > HammerheadFistpunch 08/20/2013 at 16:23

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Oh, I know all about the RAV4 V6. Sneaky bastards.

Yeah, Toyota could build something that would satisfy that market, but I think from their perspective it would come at the cost of 4Runner and Tacoma Quad Cab sales. I don't know anything about the 4Runner's place in the market currently, but the Taco is only sitting where it is because it's basically unopposed. Dropping a relatively inexpensive, capable 4x4 option into the lineup might not help their light truck much with GM about to come back, and Ford mulling the possibility. Supposedly both of those domestics will/might have diesel options, which could further limit the Tacoma's appeal.

Not to say that nobody's going to buy Tacomas just because there are some new kids on the block, but it certainly won't help sales, and neither would cannibalization from within their lineup.

Matt Urban > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 08/20/2013 at 17:13

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WOW, the aftermarket is gonna be pissed!!! There is a lot of RnD and products out there for the FJC's. Well maybe they can focus on taking the paralyzing ugliness out of the new 4Runner.

J. Walter Weatherman > HammerheadFistpunch 08/21/2013 at 16:18

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Missed this yesterday. Agree whole heartedly. It's not a huge market, but I think that there is enough of a market to make it work (especially if it is coordinated with their worldwide models - no need to do US-only editions, there is an international market for these trucks). Sadly, I don't think they would ever do it.