I can't live up to the original, but...

"ncasolowork2" (ncasolowork2)
08/19/2013 at 13:57 • Filed to: None

Subaru BRZ tS? Subaru asked Toyota for permission to increase the power. They said no. Subaru BRZ toyotaSucks edition coming soon to a dealer near you.

I don't really know if that's what happened, but that's the reality I choose to believe, because Subaru isn't beige.

A good point was brought up. Considering the ratio of Scion/Toyotas that need to sell in order to sell a BRZ consider what would happen if Subaru independently increased power in one of their versions? I realize costs would change, but that could make the BRZ even more popular making it even harder to sell a Scioyota. And since you can't sell BRZs unless Scioyotas are selling... you're presented with a problem. a.k.a. toyotaSucks.

DISCUSSION (10)

Montalvo > ncasolowork2
08/19/2013 at 14:09

Until there is written proof it is all just speculative and rumors but if it is true then $%#& Toyota! Its powered by a boxer engine anyway so I think Subaru gets to call the shots of what goes vroom under the hood. I am already pissed off at Toyota for the BS you need to sell X amount of FRS and 86 to sell Y BRZ. The engine has so much potential and it will happen whether Toyota wants it to happen or not. Offer it as a dealer option and make it very accessible. 200hp is still respectable but for close to 30k I want closer to 250-300. Also it needs more torque the chassis is strong and competent enough to handle more power with no issues.

Z_Stig > ncasolowork2
08/19/2013 at 14:09

I'm choosing to believe that as well. Maybe Toyota wants to be the first to release a higher horsepower version?

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > ncasolowork2
08/19/2013 at 14:11

Are you kidding?

Subaru not Beige?

I ask honestly, as a CURRENT 2x Owner.

What exactly about Subaru is not beige, aside from the mere existence of the BRZ in the first place?

Legacy GT Gone.

Forester XT Auto-only.

Outback XT Gone, and current generation would be ugly anyway.

Impreza, a bland, boring, and uninspired economy car, that is underpowered, and CVT-motivated, solely for the purpose of getting gas mileage numbers, and little else.

XV Crosstrek a tall bland Impreza that is still under-powered, with no option otherwise, and any added options KILLS the availability of the manual gearbox for a CVT.

Tribeca is left to languish and sell next to no units, neither sporty, nor truly utilitarian.

The only one left is WRX and WRX STI, which are mechanically 10 years old, still on the old engine, and old chassis, at as high a price as ever, while other cars have caught up and surpassed the power and performance levels.

Subaru showed ONE aspect of knowing how to turn their head from their mainstream appliance focus to sell as many refridgerator-excitement-level cars...

WRX Concept earlier this year.

And even just days later, the test mule for the actual production car was seen showing that the WRX we'll get is still just a park bench wing and a turbo tacked on to an Impreza, even if it isn't badged as an Impreza.

Subaru is Toyota's lap-dog at this point, and the only reason a Subaru coupe exists is because Toyota got sick of being laughed at by enthusiasts who know they have nothing left. They couldn't build something economically enough to justify doing it themselves, so they got their little lapdog to chop up the BL/GR chassis for RWD only, and put a coupe body on it, with just enough engine not to be a joke, but not enough to truly be serious.

Subaru is either incapable or unwilling to think outside the box anymore, and they made their niche reputation on that. Now they are selling out just as bad as Toyota and Honda already have.

ncasolowork2 > Z_Stig
08/19/2013 at 14:12

They already have stipulations on how many BRZ's can be sold vs. how many Scioyota twins. I would imagine the demand for BRZ's would go up and GT-86's would go down thus making it even harder to get a BRZ.

Saracen > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/19/2013 at 14:14

COTD nom. Right here.

ncasolowork2 > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/19/2013 at 14:16

If we take the BRZ and GT-86 out of the Toyota and Subaru lineups we're left with the STi and the the the what at Toyota? At least Subaru has SOMETHING exciting without the Toyobaru twins.

Z_Stig > ncasolowork2
08/19/2013 at 14:23

What exactly does Subaru get out of this partnership?

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > ncasolowork2
08/19/2013 at 14:30

A 35-40K ugly little pug-nose econo-body with some power under the hood, and AWD.

That is Mustang GT/Camaro SS/Challenger RT money... for 400+ horsepower with at least the attempts for compelling looks.

WRX STI doesn't offer that much power, nor that good of looks, and there are other more practical boxes from Subaru that don't cost nearly as much.

WRX STI's DCCD drivetrain is impressive, but it doesn't yet have a more modern engine, a more modern chassis, or an actually attractive body on it.

Subaru could have put out a Genesis or Mustang competitor, with AWD, and a Turbo H4, or a high-output H6 engine choice... but they didn't. They went with a combo-breaker RWD 200hp coupe instead, rather than just building them and leaving them for Toyota/Scion to sell under license, with a "engineering by Subaru" badge on it.

40K might even get you into a hold-over Taurus SHO with FAR more power, and still AWD, in a big, but kind of handsome sedan body.

Toyota's lack of product is Toyota's Problem, ever since they killed the Supra, Celica, and MR2, and didn't bring any of them back when Nissan and Chevy, and others started to bring back their coupes.

They have the IS platform, which is so short in the rear seat footwell, it should have been a coupe from day one, anyway... and left the sedan duties to GS.

People used to post that they really wish they could get a more practical sedan version of the BRZ/FRS/GT-86... The IS250 RWD 6-speed is barely more expensive than a top BRZ, with roughly the same performance, and probably more standard equipment as a Lexus than a Subaru or a Scion.

IS-F languishes. I am not sure if they'd do much business with a GS-F, either... with their new Predator alien face grilles, either.

Toyota's problem is Toyota.

Subaru has been cutting options for years, and cutting models as well... The only thing they have left is WRX and WRX STI for AWD performance... and as I said, they are too old to justify their price tags, and the new one coming next year should already be here, and isn't likely to change the game much, just to get the new FA20DIT engine, and yet another gear tacked on to the WRX's transmission, to further narrow the performance gap between WRX and WRX STI, while the price markup remains.

There is no FXT Sport or STI Forester... not even a simple 6-speed manual gearbox option on the standard FXT. Not even a bone thrown to enthusiasts like an S-Edition, or tS.

There is no turbo XV Sport turbo 6-speed.

No high-output H6 in Outback or Tribeca... If Tribeca can't be practical compared to the bigger Pilot or Highlander, at least it could be sporty, maybe taking a slight hint of an edge from Explorer EcoBoost, or Jeep SRT8, or Range Rover Sport, but it isn't.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Z_Stig
08/19/2013 at 16:36

Money.

Continued fiscal backing from toyota.

Continued operating costs in their factories.

operating revenue for building more units, even if most of the retail profits go toward Toyotas and Scions, the Subaru factory is still building all the cars with Subaru parts.

And they get to say that they sell a sport coupe, that they didn't have to pay all the R&D for. They wouldn't be selling a coupe otherwise... considering the ~13 years that they didn't between the GC Impreza Coupe's demise, and the advent of the FT-86 triplets.

The same reason as Toyota... they get to claim: 'We aren't completely beige, because look at this RWD sport coupe that we sell!"

Z_Stig > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/19/2013 at 16:57

I see. Can't blame 'em really.