Ford 460/429 Size

"GhostZ" (GhostZ) 08/16/2013 at 14:17 • Filed to: Speculation, Ford 351, Ford 460, Big Block VS Small Block

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From what I've seen, there isn't a significant exterior size increase from the 351 (335) block to the 460 (385) block.

Both of these photos are inside a 1969 Mustang, or so they would lead me to believe.

Seeing as the 460 is available in larger quantities (and got modernized with FI in the 90s) why don't we see more 460 swaps? The guy who did the body work on my 1998 Mustang had a Ford 460 he was planning to swap into... something. It looks big, but for the displacement, it actually seems like a great way to get 7+ liters in something with a (relatively) narrow engine bay. The 351 (especially in truck form) is a really, really tall engine, so I can't imagine the 460 being much taller.

That being said... does the small-ish size mean these things had cooling /cylinder wall issues? Are there other reliability problems or parts availability issues that make them not a desirable swap? I know they got terrible mileage,or is it just that everyone who has power goals north of 500HP will use boost or has the money to go with a more modern N/A engine?

I wonder what a solid-lifter 460 with high compression, massive valves, a proper high-rpm cam, and pistons and conrods forged by God himself would sound like...

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > GhostZ 08/16/2013 at 14:20

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Because there heavy 620lbs.

pdthedeuce > GhostZ 08/16/2013 at 14:22

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no block issues, in fact these motors are regularly bored and stroked over 520 inches. lots of people don't like them because the all (except the ford racing block, I think) have 2 bolt mains, and crappy heads. however, there are many affordable aftermarket heads available.

GhostZ > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 08/16/2013 at 14:32

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They were both Cast Iron, so I can't imagine the 351 being much lighter... especially compared to the 454 (about 700lbs?) and 440/426 (over 800).

A quick google search shows me that the 302 is around 400lbs, so I can definitely see the weight being an issue. That being said, 160ci is pretty big. If you're going for pure power-to-weight, a 302 could pull a modest 350HP N/A on pump gas for 400 lbs, but a 460 could do around 550 and have more cylinder space to work with, for bigger valves. Still, 200lbs is a lot to shift onto the front axle.

But it looks like a blown/turbo'd 302 would, for maybe more money, probably put down about the same numbers at 2/3rds the weight.

It's really not about cubic inches though, it's more about reliability, availability, and cost. Power comes from Displacement, how much air/fuel makes that displacement and how fast it can do it. A 460 2 barrel spinning at 5000rpm is useless compared to a 302 with twin 4-barrels spinning at 7500rpm.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > GhostZ 08/16/2013 at 14:39

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The 3o2 was based on the 351W so there about the same weight. If your going with a 460 the Boss Nine stuff is cool but sooo expensive. Parts for 351 302 are way more readily available for less money.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > GhostZ 08/16/2013 at 14:52

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I believe the block is flattened out some and fatter on the bottom that you aren't really seeing in the picture. The 351W is a really tall motor so it looks like it's bigger than it is sometimes.

Personally I have a 302. Parts are EVERYWHERE for the 302 and 351W, makes for cheap fun builds. My car has a 302, with just a 4 barrel Holley and an Edelbrock Performer RPM aluminum intake and I'm telling you it pulls pretty damn hard for a huge car with a 3 speed auto in it. I would save the 200 pounds and stick with the small block, but I just don't need the big block power, I'm already spinning the tires in every gear (yeah all the way up at 40+ mph).

GhostZ > pdthedeuce 08/16/2013 at 14:56

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I think most of the Ford V8s from the late 70s-on had crappy heads. I can't think of a properly built 5.0HO that didn't have a head swap.

Going for the Ford Racing block defeats the purpose of cheap and available, but 2 bolt mains could kill the idea in the long run, since I would want this thing to handle RPMs (the point of going with a low-stroke V8) and take serious power.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > GhostZ 08/16/2013 at 15:00

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A guy at my work is building up a 460 for his bronco that currently has a 351 in it. It is a common swap from what I gather. He's expecting quite a bit of power too. New carbs, ported heads, new intake and exhaust manifolds, new pistons and a number of other things.