Politics (NSA) in reply

"You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much" (youcantellafinn)
08/13/2013 at 11:40 • Filed to: POLITICS, NSA, WTF

Hopefully this will result in a jump. Link to a rather interesting look at the NSA scandal from a Congressional staffers perspective inside.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130…

It is total bullshit when Obama or anybody else says that this would have come out if Snowden didn't leak the information. And that fact that the administration has assigned !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! to investigate NSA abuses is beyond ludicrous. James Clapper is the very person who had !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! :

Wyden: Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?

Clapper: No sir.

Wyden: It does not?

Clapper: Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect—but not wittingly.

Assigning the very person who lied to Congress to cover up his abuses of NSA power to investigate the NSA and issue a report to himself IS NOT TRANSPARENCY. And lets be honest, the report he issues to himself after he investigates himself will obviously be classified to prevent anything that he finds out about his abuses being testified about in an open session of Congress.

DISCUSSION (15)

PanchoVilleneuve ST > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
08/13/2013 at 11:46

I like how the internet is acting like Obama himself is reading all your emails and shit.

dinobot666 > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
08/13/2013 at 11:50

He's just keeping stuff in place that Bush had already set in motion with the Patriot Act.

Victorious Secret > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
08/13/2013 at 11:51

Its funny that you think Obama himself is responsible for this.

The US system by design means the President is as much a figurehead as the Queen of England. The real power doesn't sit with him, it never has.

FFS, his Chiefs of Staff have more power.

FFS, HE can be removed from power by a constitutional amendment.

If you think the wiretapping started with Obama wow, you're an idiot. No due respect at all.

Then again, naive people will believe anything.

GasolineLollipop > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
08/13/2013 at 11:55

You were a conspiracy nut just months ago if you had pointed out the data centers the NSA is building. I am astonished at how many people don't care.

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/8548… #lizard people, #aliens, #illuminati. lol

ncasolowork2 > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
08/13/2013 at 11:56

Just going to say this. Obama campaigned on keeping our nose out of other peoples business and made it clear that he was taking our spies out of Europe and other places. He just neglected to tell us he was going to re-invest those assets in spying on us. Typical politics.

ncasolowork2 > Victorious Secret
08/13/2013 at 11:57

The U.S. President does not have a lot of real power, I agree. However, he most certainly knew what was going on and if he wanted to do something about it he could have.

Casper > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
08/13/2013 at 11:58

This is the problem with people letting themselves be played against one another. They get so invested in their political team that they can't acknowledge how bad their guy does. Bush shows up, does a bad job, implements the seeds of fascist control and Democrats hate him but Republicans defend him as a nice guy. Obama shows up, does even worse, and massively expands the controls... Republicans hate him, Democrats talk about his ugly wife's wardrobe.

The NSA lies to Congress, gets exposed, and decides the correct course of action is to fire anyone who might expose their illegal activities in the future. Everyone just says "well it's for our own good" and goes back to arguing about which political party is worse.

The IRS decides to work as a political weapon, gets caught, lies to congress. They promote away those responsible and go about their day promising more "oversight" of themselves. The people say "well it wasn't my party" and go back to watching pregnant teenagers lives implode on TV.

I'm pretty sure the country is doomed. We have legislated away all common sense. The only way to fix this is to pass sweeping laws or a constitutional amendment that forces Congress to stop passing pseudo law making power on to agencies and to make those enacting any legislation or regulations legally accountable if the courts find it to be illegal. While we are at it, there should be a law that immediately removes any Congressman, Senator, or President from office who votes for or signs anything that is later found to be unconstitutional... since, you know, it's the minimum requirement of their job.

William Byrd > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
08/13/2013 at 12:00

And none of this happened under Bush of course....

GasolineLollipop > Casper
08/13/2013 at 12:11

Good luck making laws against the corrupt lawmakers.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Victorious Secret
08/13/2013 at 12:20

For the record I don't think that Obama is the only person responsible for this. I am aware that the Constitution has provided for a separation of power which can be thought of as checks and balances.

I am also aware that since the beginning of our country the federal government in general and each branch in particular has attempted with varying degrees of success to accumulate power for themselves. A democracy works when the people call bullshit on government accumulating more and more power. A democracy works by the people retaining their power and natural rights by limiting the power that they cede to their government. And when government has overreached it bounds and accumulated more power than the people think it should have it is in the best interest of the people to speak up and call bullshit.

A democracy that grants unlimited power to the government is not a democracy, it is a dictatorship. Unfortunately the U.S. government has accumulated power over the years with limited oversight. The people haven't called out the elected officials for abusing and accumulating too much power. The elected officials haven't been able to keep up with the power that they have accumulated so they have delegated it to bureaucrats and agencies. Now those agencies have gained so much power that they refuse to answer to Congress whose job it is to oversee them and Congress refuses to answer to the people.

Perhaps you should work on reading comprehension. I never claimed that the wiretapping started with Obama. What I am calling out Obama about is his blatant lie when he states that this would have come out whether or not Snowden leaked these programs to the press. What I am calling Obama out on is his claim that he would lead a "transparent administration".

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > ncasolowork2
08/13/2013 at 12:21

Not to mention he also handled the situation terribly, which is actually surprising considering he's usually good at this.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > William Byrd
08/13/2013 at 12:22

And none of it happened under Clinton or Bush I or Reagan or Carter or Ford or Nixon either right? This has been going on since long before the Patriot Act was ever dreamed up.

Casper > GasolineLollipop
08/13/2013 at 12:47

Yeah. One idea I have had for a while is a governmental reset button. It would be 3 items on every election ballot representing the President, House, and Senate (possibly just President and Congress). It would be simple, if 65% of people (no electoral college, straight popular vote) vote for one of them it removes all members of that entity from office and bans then from running again for 10 years. That would let the whole of the country protect it's self from states who keep reelecting crazy people. It would also instantly cripple the corrupt circles of power by breaking their legacies and making them worry about their approval ratings.

Breakfast Burrito: The True Resident Burrito > Victorious Secret
08/13/2013 at 12:49

Huh, you mean like the naive people who blamed Bush for our nation's problems before Obama?

The president doesn't (and shouldn't) really have any hard power, but he does have vast amounts of soft power and political capital that he uses to advance his agenda. The president is also responsible for his administration and the actions taken by it. Here's a quote from a proper president when he was faced with a scandal that was undertaken without his knowledge.

"First, let me say I take full responsibility for my own actions and for those of my administration. As angry as I may be about activities undertaken without my knowledge, I am still accountable for those activities. As disappointed as I may be in some who served me, I'm still the one who must answer to the American people for this behavior."

-Ronald Reagan

Fast forward to today, Obama is now responsible for numerous scandals that he willingly took part in and all he does is blame other people or lie about their severity.

McLarry > Victorious Secret
08/13/2013 at 14:01

There's quite a difference between stating that Obama started the wiretapping and saying that Obama is responsible for the wiretapping... It's his administration, he's ultimately responsible for the actions of those acting under him. Whatever happened to that sign on the president's desk that said 'the buck stops here'?