I don't like the E30 M3

"t_s" (t_s)
12/18/2013 at 08:40 • Filed to: M3, E30

Let me just get that out of the way right at the start. Now allow me to explain how I arrived at that conclusion.

The year was 2009, I was looking to add something interesting to the garage and a mate got in touch about an M3 he was selling. It sounded nice, had a nice big history file and was a fetching colour. I therefore decided that purchasing it would be a sound decision and welcomed it to the garage.

Concerted sleuthing revealed that my new car was in fact a quite rare Cecotto edition M3, this made me very happy. Unfortunately the car arrived in the middle of winter and record snowfall made an in-depth test out of the question.

Fast forward three months and after having spent hours and hours in the garage cleaning up the interior, marvelling at the box arches and telling everyone within earshot that "it's got a dogleg gearbox y'know, motorsport heritage y'know" the time came to actually get it out on the road.

I decided to take it on a tour of the usual roads that I use as testing grounds for bikes and cars and roped in some assistance to do some back-to-back testing with the other old thing in the garage which served as a benchmark...

I was expecting an epiphany. I was expecting a choir of heavenly angels to sing at every turn of the wheel. I was expecting a Motorsport-derived engine to wail, croon and generally tug at my inside leg.

None of all of that happened. The handling, while competent, didn't scream miraculous discoveries through the steering wheel and seat base. The engine just seemed peaky. The gearbox was lovely, but not enough to distract from the overall disappointment of the rest of the car.

I retired to the SC, shaken, worried, underwhelmed and slightly concerned.

Had I just spent a large amount of money on a hound? Was I so terrible behind the wheel that the car wasn't talking to me? I decided to reserve my judgment until I'd taken more time to learn the car's foibles and also try another M3 to see if mine wasn't just singing out of key.

Six months, 3000kms and a spirited drive in a friend's Evolution left me cold. The engine confirmed its peaky nature, the handling, while entertaining, didn't tug at my heart strings like the 911. On the whole the Porsche was, to my eyes, massively superior, characterful, fast and entertaining. The M3 just hadn't lived up to the hype. This really was a case of not meeting your heroes. There was just something I couldn't put my finger on. I had a couple of conversations with other owners and the general consensus is that the car got under their skin almost immediately. So it must be me right? It must be. I'll give it another chance. A nice driving weekend to the seaside!

Saturday morning bright and early, I leave for the beach. Fifteen kms later and the car's dead. The alternator has given up the ghost. Right then, screw you, I was trying to give you a chance here!

Fast forward two weeks, alternator fixed. A friend asks me about the car, makes me a stupid offer and I sell it, happy in the knowledge that maybe I'm just not an E30 M3 guy.

So there you go, I don't like the E30 M3...

DISCUSSION (100)

505Turbeaux > t_s
12/18/2013 at 08:46

I like it for what it was at the time, but would take a benz Evo or an Audi 20V 90Q over it. And you might need this...

Kinja'd!!!

Battery Tender Unnecessary > t_s
12/18/2013 at 08:48

There's no "one car for everyone." Here's hoping you find yours. The search continues I guess.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > t_s
12/18/2013 at 08:50

This actually brings up a good point. I admire your consistency. A lot of people make fun of us VTEC loyalists because of the nature of our engines, but then think it's the greatest thing in the world when the E30 M3 basically has exactly the same characteristics.

t_s > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
12/18/2013 at 08:51

My daily is an S2000 and while the M3 just frustrated the living hell out of me, the S2K just sort of works. I don't know why...

hobbes567 > t_s
12/18/2013 at 08:55

I think the "Don't meet your heroes" is perfect for the E30 M3. People don't realize that any 24v swapped E30 is faster, cheaper to maintain, (look up S14 prices, they are stupid) and handles just as well after suspension work. (which you were going to do to the M3 anyway...) The S14 doesn't make much power and it is strung out like a superbike to make the small amount that it does. Don't get me wrong, I love the E30 M3, but I think it is best served as a rich mans one-Sunday-a-month driver and not something you put many miles on.

Leave the M3 to the collectors, the regular e30 is where its at.

Justin Young > t_s
12/18/2013 at 08:57

As an E30 fanboy, I value and respect your opinion.

I wouldn't respect this Craiglist E30.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > t_s
12/18/2013 at 09:01

I don't know. Hondas are like that. On paper they're always questionable, but from behind the wheel, they just work.

Tom McParland > t_s
12/18/2013 at 09:02

This is an excellent post. I want to say it deserves a FP share, but I would be afraid at the amount of trolling that would happen.

505 - morphine not found > t_s
12/18/2013 at 09:15

Firstly, I'm very jelly at the SC. Also I would add to the chorus here: I can completely see your point. There isn't a single car that fits every taste, and it is good that you didn't bend your mindset to the car, but believed your senses instead.

What's more, it has happened to me, when i took an Alfetta 2.0 to a spin. It didn't feel an iota better than a good Peugeot 505, even though the Alfa should be the heavens while the Pug - meh. Ok, i give the engine kudos to the Italians, the double Dell'orto carbs on the 2.0 make the engine work and sound stupendous. But on ride and handling they're roughly identical, and the Pug has a much better gearbox, which has to go some way when it comes to enthusiast sedans....

Ex. President Mack41 > t_s
12/18/2013 at 09:16

This was very well written. I love reading honest truth about cars that are loved. Thanks for sharing and being brave enough to hate something most will never drive but worship all day long.

Stef Schrader > t_s
12/18/2013 at 09:18

Waitwaitwait. I need a 911SC. Need it bad.

Jayhawk Jake > Tom McParland
12/18/2013 at 09:19

It certainly deserves the share.

It's an honest review of a 'god' car. No one does that. People are to afraid to go so against the grain, even if they don't agree with the common thought.

I loved this article, he's not bashing the M3 to bash the M3, he's just giving an honest review of the car from the perspective of someone who actually owned one , which is fantastic.

Tom McParland > Jayhawk Jake
12/18/2013 at 09:20

I Tweeted the big-shots anyway...we will see what happens

ModerateSloth > t_s
12/18/2013 at 09:22

I couldn't agree with you more. The E30 is a car that I admire and drool over on paper and in pictures but I can't really say that I would ever go out of my way to own one.

Dsscats > t_s
12/18/2013 at 09:32

I must say that what I believe is the problem is the expectation. Chances are, most of the people who think the handling is spectacular came to that view from seeing the car as a car before, not some god.

TurboSloth > t_s
12/18/2013 at 09:36

Great points. I took don't like the E30 M3. Personally, I'm not a big BMW person, but I do love the e46 m3 for some reason.

MonkeePuzzle > t_s
12/18/2013 at 09:36

umm... I'll take it :P

a good read though, thanks for sharing :D

I have often dreamed of owning a Gallardo, I do wonder if getting in and driving one for the first time would be a similar story, I hear they are lackluster, but is that just compared to other Lamborghinis, will I adore the baby lambo because it is a thousand times better than my civic?

Lime - Light > t_s
12/18/2013 at 09:47

I have to admit I'm in the same camp as you. I've driven E36 and E46 M3's and they were wonderful, but everything I know about the E30 makes me think I'd hate it. Peaky power delivery, sort of annoying engine note and I'm not a huge fan of the styling. Your opinions have confirmed it. There also seems to be a notion in the general car community that E30's handle better than their predecessors, and while they may communicate steering feel better, they undoubtedly have less grip and capability.

rabidpenguin > t_s
12/18/2013 at 09:50

I think you made the mistake of thinking it was as good as a new car. It was cutting edge technology for 1988 but it pales in comparison to a new Evo. It is not going to accelerate, stop, or corner faster than a car built with technology 25 years more advanced. It is not going to be as reliable either. Most people makes these mistakes because of all the chatter they her on the interwebs. The only aspect where it has a new car clearly beat is road feel, because it is so much lighter. The most important aspect is if it puts a smile on your face when you drive it.

There is also personal preference involved here. You may prefer an engine that makes more power lower in the range. To each his own, comes to mind.

BTW I own an E3o and love the way it drives. I understand I don't own a new car and all the negatives associated with that.

BrtStlnd > t_s
12/18/2013 at 10:10

I completely agree that the e30 M3 has been vastly overhyped and canonized. It was a great car compared to its contemporaries, and very important in the M brand's evolution but it's not the Holy Grail.

Menebrio > t_s
12/18/2013 at 10:40

I'm an E-30 M3 fan. I think what I like mostly is its looks but I can not talk about the handling because I've never sat behind the wheel of one. I think you might be a bit spoiled since you are comparing its handling to a 911. Porsche (as described by those who have driven them) have always felt more competent at handling than anything else. The M3 I guess would be like your Toyota for the fan-boys; Performance for the masses. I guess you might be right by your standards of driving, but I'll still take one over any other car. Except an F-40.

jariten1781 > t_s
12/18/2013 at 10:47

I'm in the same boat. I had a friend who moved, lost his garage, and was looking for a home for his. He offered it to me knowing that I was probably the best host for it (ie he didn't want to craigslist it, sending it to the unknown, and I'd keep it original). I had it for a couple weeks because I just wasn't sure that I'd want to spend the high price for something I didn't love. In the time I had it, nothing really went wrong and it was a pretty great car. It was not, however, a revelation and didn't feel incredibly special.

If it were a bit more quirky, or a bit more unique I could see bringing it in. If it hadn't made 'collector' status I would have been a neat daily, but I just couldn't see doing that to a car that has so many fans and so few original copies remaining. I had no desire to have it fill a garage space just to have it. So, even though he offered me a great price and I probably could have kept it for a few years and made a massive profit, I had to pass. He ended up fielding a ton of offers but just decided to put it in storage in the end.

t_s > rabidpenguin
12/18/2013 at 10:57

The back to back comparison was with a car eight years older and of broadly similar power output and value. They were admittedly very different cars, however I figured it would be the most honest comparison going on what I knew.

Alex87f > t_s
12/18/2013 at 11:25

I'm curious... what country do you live in? I've been trying to figure it out, it's obviously European, but I can't say any more than that... I wanna say France but something tells me it's not, though it being a coastal county does not leave many options. Italy? Or Croatia maybe?

Oh and on a side note, very nice review! I've never quite understood the hype around the E30 M3 though it's undeniably very cool. The 911SC, however, is most definitely my hero car. I'd love to own one some day, and I very much hope I will in a not-too-distant future.

t_s > Alex87f
12/18/2013 at 11:32

I live in Italy... :)

iLikeCarsAndSkiing > t_s
12/18/2013 at 12:47

I respect this. As much as I love the car, I do respect this.

monovich > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:27

I've got an E30 M3 and a 912E (not even a 911!) and on many many drives the 912 gives me more enjoyment because it's 4 paltry cylinders + ratios are more drivable in the city. It also feels lighter than the M3, and I'll go ahead and say it: It looks better too.

That said, I do like the M3 and I'm glad to be able to learn over time how different the cars are.

I don't posses the skill to drive the M3 at the limits, and maybe that is where it blows the doors off other cars. Either way, neither cars are leaving the garage. Ever.

Ratchet when he's all hopped up on synthetic energon > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:29

This reminds me of my one experience in an M3, albeit the one I drove was an E36. I was completely underwhelmed. Sure, it had a nice hit when you wound out the motor, but elsewise it just felt like the best Camry ever made; it just seemed to be the best possible execution of something that's just ultimately not that exciting.

Maybe more time in one would change my mind? I only drove it about 5 miles (the rural equivalent of "around the block").

Charlie B. Sharenative > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:30

Probably still a good investment, sell it for a profit in 6 months when the hype for this car peaks (if it hasn't already).

I also don't like them but for a different reason. I had a near death experience in one as a teenager, riding with an irresponsible friend of a friend who passed someone, on the left, over a crest, on a 4 right turn into oncoming traffic. Missed a head-on by inches.

BeaterGT > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:30

What I learned from this article...you are not a hipster.

112358132134 > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:30

is that a 500E in your garage in front of the m3? cus that would explain your disappointment.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:32

maybe I'm just not an E30 M3 guy

Different strokes for different folks.

Hope your friend gets many years of enjoyment from it.

Kate's Dirty Sister > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:33

I must applause your honesty and the quality of your review.

It's well written and you are bringing tangible arguments, not just the usual jalop rubbish.

I always have doubts when it comes to over-hyped things.

ZabiakFero > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:37

you are spoiled and very very brave

112358132134 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
12/18/2013 at 14:38

not to start a new topic and troll but I think like anything else in the automotive world people make fun more of the owners than the actual object they are focussed on

Lorem ipsum > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:38

Bravo, and good on you to speak your mind. Sometimes these infallible icons are so built up that no one wants to pick them apart.

Ninetales > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:38

Kinja'd!!!

Sometimes, reality doesn't match the dream.

Cadi-Lackadaisical > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:41

I felt the same way about my 94 Supra. I saw the attraction, saw what people were talking about, and yet just not the car for me and left me feeling... Meh. Sold it and bought a 95 Trans Am M6 that instantly spoke to me. Just more my kind of car - raw, unforgiving, unrefined - to me a lot more challenging to drive well, and consequently a lot more fun.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Jayhawk Jake
12/18/2013 at 14:42

Yeah, definitely worthy: personal experience, tried to love it, but couldn't.

And he keeps it in the context of his opinion, related to his 911.

Not saying the E30 sucks; it just doesn't do it for him .

fintail > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:42

I'd hazard a guess you turned a profit, based on how the market has been adoring these things. So it's got that. Things must be running in the black for some people in Italy.

schwartz > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
12/18/2013 at 14:42

Older Hondas that still have soul...fixed it for you. I can't say there are any Honda's on sale that I would want. Si included.

hankolerd > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:43

I love my e30 M3, but have always thought a 70's or 80's porsche 911 would be a good replacement for it in the future. I have never driven a 911, but from everything I have read they are one of the most enjoyable cars to drive. Though, the M3 is a very forgiving car and is a lot of fun to be a hooligan in.

bpromersberger > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:43

Thank you for clarifying my suspicions. I love BMWs, even though I'm only on my second one. But I've never been able to grasp the hype of the E30 M3. I understand it (for the most part) started M car movement, and was fantastic for the time, but nowadays I couldn't justify the money people are asking for them. Especially when you have E46's for $5-$10k less in some cases.

Great read by the way. I think most people can relate to the feeling of disappointment with gremlins and hype.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ex. President Mack41
12/18/2013 at 14:44

Honest opinion .

And hate is quite a bit stronger than "don't like".

ZabiakFero > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:45

E30 M3 is omething most people build up over years in their heads, like sex with J-lo and are never confronted with reality, but are ready to die for their ilusion. Personaly I blame reading too much autocar in early age

Gr8Dane > schwartz
12/18/2013 at 14:46

Si? No.

But the Fit is still worthy of consideration, if only for how fun it is in the twisties.

ddavidn > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:49

Some cars aren't for everyone. I would love to drive that one, but if you aren't into it, you just aren't into it. Most people don't like my M3 at all. I think it's great. Well-written post, though. Curious, do you like how it looks?

TheCraigy > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:49

E30 M3 is certainly a cool car, and probably one of the greatest cars of its time, but it's no longer its time.

I guess I'm an M3 guy with an E92 but I have only a limited desire for the E46, less for the E36, and no desire for the E30 outside of its novelty. They're all great cars but there's huge gaps between them.

ddavidn > Tom McParland
12/18/2013 at 14:50

Yes, and also: Ugh, for real.

maxd23 > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:50

I liked your article. The only thing I would say that is that perhaps your expectations were too high. The hype surrounding this car is huge, and I would venture to say that many things in life fail to live up to the hype. No fault of yours, but it may have been better to have modest expectations; you might have had a different opinion.

Dale Franks > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:51

Here's the thing: The E30 M3 seemed great in its day because everything else was a horrid little Vauxhall or Ford that was slow and handled terribly, or a massive Oldmobile or Lincoln that was slow and handled terribly.

By modern standards the E30 M3 is a decent car. We forget how spoiled we are in the modern era. Really, anything made before 2002 is a bit rubbish.

kyldare > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:52

I own an Evo MR and an E30 M3. I'm currently trying to sell the Evo.

I think you're right in saying the E30 just didn't click for you, but that's fine. The first time I rode in an E30 M3 was at 10/10ths on a race track. That exact car was the one I ended up buying. It was easy for me to fall in love with the car as it had the perfect opportunity to meet my expectations head on.

When it comes down to it, the E30 is slow, has no torque, is less comfortable and higher-maintenance than the E36 M3 I had before it - the list goes on. I guess I just connected with the character of the car more than you did.

To each his own though! At least you get the chance to say you owned the holy grail of E30s (a Cecotto)!

jc8 > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:53

I think the racing heritage is what elevated its status. I love the look of E30 M3, but I've heard the operating cost is pretty high. I guess if you love it enough, you can see beyond the flaws, or like some have said, if you're a hipster with enough $. For me, it's a 356.

Montalvo > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:53

In terms of performance it is nothing to really be in awe of. In its time it was an absolute monster but that was oh so long ago. One thing though that will always keep it high in the sky for me is the looks. Those alone are just drop dead gorgeous. If you are a collector then the E30 M3 is for you though if you want those looks with modern performance you are better of getting any of the regular 3 series models and modifying them to how you want with an engine swap and suspension and transmission upgrades. You will get a better car for far cheaper than what the E30 M3 is going for now.

ncarlucci10 > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:54

if you are selling then i'm your buyer. you have to have a heart of stone not to fall in love with the E30 M3.

Daddio > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:56

It's okay not to like it. But rather than "never meet your heroes", the actual moral of the story is, "never buy your heroes without test driving them first"...

afgiubadfiubg > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:57

Man that SC looks beautiful though. I've always loved the simple but perfect gauge cluster of the old 911s.

Money Hustard > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
12/18/2013 at 14:59

This has consistently been my experience as well, across their line.

Somethingwittyer likes noisy > t_s
12/18/2013 at 14:59

Summary of every hack's review of an E30 M3:

Something something drivers car something something mechanical purty something something MY GOD, IT LIKES TO REV something something current M3 something something lightness something something better then it's competitors something something IT's THE BEST.

Kudos to you for not falling for the hype. I can totally see the E30 being like this. Maybe the it's the Evolution models that gives the E30 M3 the reputation it has.

Brumos59-2 > t_s
12/18/2013 at 15:01

I don't know if it was just because it had always been hyped up as "the ultimate driving machine" all throughout my youth or what, but by the time I got to drive an E30 M3 I was thoroughly underwhelmed by it. Maybe it was because by that time I had already driven Porsches and the Integra Type R. I don't know. I didn't mind the peaky engine because I was used to VTEC Hondas but the chassis felt relatively sloppy in comparison to my Integra...and both were prepped for the same auto-x class. IIRC, the M3 had either Bilsteins or Konis on it with Ground Control coilovers. Not a setup that should have felt like a wallowy Buick after getting out of my Integra, that's for sure. I've always assumed I would have enjoyed it more on the road as opposed to an autocross course but I may never know.

gla2yyz > t_s
12/18/2013 at 15:01

Brave post but also helpful. I'm going through something similar right now, too.

I've owned a Cobalt SS Turbo for two years now and it's just not the fulfilling driving experience I was lead to believe it would be. Sure, it's got plenty of poke (third gear, foot down is quite satisfying) but I just don't feel much of a connection to the car. I had far more fun with my broke-ass, weather beaten, '94 Miata so much so I've decided to offload the Cobalt in the spring for a '06-'13 one.

People think I'm daft for not wanting to keep as it's in great shape, has low mileage for its age and it has *potential* future classic status. But if it doesn't speak to you, it doesn't speak to you.

Money Hustard > t_s
12/18/2013 at 15:03

Hahah, thanks for this! I'm always so surprised for the E30 worship on Jalopnik. They look great and all, but I just never saw them as that much of a standout in the modern mix of cars available to me. My excessive height probably makes me a little biased too, but I think this is an important sentiment to share with the Oppos and Jalops.

Autophile412 - what's the world got in store? > t_s
12/18/2013 at 15:06

While I am happy you gave it a chance, I must say that perhaps the reason you didn't love it was because you were benchmarking against a friggin 911. While they are often spoken of with the same loving tongue they are two completely different animals and should be adjudicated as such.

I love the E30 M3 and I love the 911 both for what they are but if I were to choose between the two for a fun car to tool around in I would always choose the 911. If I were choosing a car for it's driveability on a daily basis I would choose the E30.

Thank you for your honesty.

GrauGeist > t_s
12/18/2013 at 15:06

I love that you gave the E30 M3 a go.

Maybe consider driving a BRZ? Essentially identical specs, but far more modern. And a safer, too.

magman007 > t_s
12/18/2013 at 15:09

Having owned an e36 m3, an e46 m3, driven an e92 m3, and my co-worker owning an e30 m3 I feel I am competent to comment on the subject. The e30 m3 is more about what defined the modern sport sedan. While each car following it has handled better and performed better, they all trace their lineage to the e30 m3. The compliance, the ease of driving it fast, the steering feel and handling characteristics all started to appear in the e30 m3, which is why everyone gets all wax poetic about it.

Seeing as you already appreciated a vintage sports car of german descent, one with more pedigree, you're immune to its appeal. For the masses, its the amazement that this classic car has similar performance to its successors yet affords the opportunity to drive something classic (those smells, the analog nature, the kitchy 80's tech) and still have a reliable performance machine is the attraction.

I love my co workers car, he is an e30 guy. I love his regular e30 too, but I am much happier hoping into my STi every morning than I would be hopping into an e30 m3.

For me, the real god car is the e46 m3.

GrauGeist > BrtStlnd
12/18/2013 at 15:10

Would the Holy Grail be one of these , perhaps?

Kinja'd!!!

BMW E36 M3

To me, the E36 M3 is the iconic M3, with beautiful wheels and tasteful styling.

0ne > GrauGeist
12/18/2013 at 15:16

No.

J-Tenno > t_s
12/18/2013 at 15:18

Everyone is different, no 2 people are alike. Some also like wearing pants, some don't, some like Beetles, some don't, everybody likes Miatas, some do too.

They [E30's] never caught my attention in the same way some other cars do. I saw an E30 M3 parked next to a very clean Lancia Delta Integrale in red and to be honest, the Lancia had my attention, not the M3.

But hey I drive a diesel hatchback, what would I know. Car enthusiasts can be very aggressive so be careful with your comments.

Mpusch > MonkeePuzzle
12/18/2013 at 15:24

FWIW, I'm a huge Lamborghini person myself. Copped a ride in a friend's LP560 a year or two ago. My frame of reference being my only car - 99 Buick, and the fastest car I've driven being a CTS-Coupe. Was plenty of fun, sounded great, rode well, and was pretty fast. That said, it wasn't like "Oh my God I'm about to die, but I feel so alive!". The big Lambos might provide even more excitement, but I would dare not call the Gallardo boring.

rigidjunkie > magman007
12/18/2013 at 15:26

So explain why you love your E46. I drive an 09 WRX and cross shopped E46 M3s. I question my decision on a weekly basis.

damthisburnershitsucks > t_s
12/18/2013 at 15:27

Had I just spent a large amount of money on a hound?

this is the problem I see... you paid a premium expecting a premium experience... It's like growing up with a Cindy Crawford poster on your wall and then paying a large sum of money to sleep with her... there is no way she's going to live up to your expectations formed when she was young and new

Someone Else's Projects > t_s
12/18/2013 at 15:31

This is just like when I test-drove a Saab 900 SPG for the first time. Having had a "mongrel" of a 9000 Aero, I figured I owed it to the high priests of Börkian purity to experience what was supposed to be the high point of the brand. The example I tried turned out to be a serious rust-bucket, but the driving experience wasn't affected by it.

Upsides:

Never before have I heard such a satisfying "thunk." when I closed a door.

Despite this solidity, it remains a lightweight and surprisingly chuckable car.

Thanks to equal-length driveshafts, no torque steer.

Even with a stock exhaust it had a lovely growling rally-car exhaust note.

Downsides:

Despite it being the fastest 900 they ever made, it wasn't all that fast in a straight line; even on boost it wasn't that impressive. Granted my 9000 is modded so it has nearly twice the power to weight, and my perception was surely tainted by that experience.

World's. Worst. Shifter. Nobody ever mentions this in their starry-eyed nostalgic reviews. Coming from an MR2 Spyder, I thought the 9000's shifter was long in its throws, but the 900's made that feel like a Miata's.

So yes, time can be unkind in more than the obvious ways. Is charm enough to offset what are serious objective shortcomings? We all have our own answers to that question.

RallyWrench > t_s
12/18/2013 at 15:34

I hope this gets repeated everywhere so the prices come back down & I can buy one. Not the be-all end-all car that the internet now says it is, but having driven & worked on several, still a car I want to own, for several reasons. Can you post a lukewarm review of your 911SC too? Those need to to come back down to Earth for the same reason. 8 years ago I could have had a cosmetically tired but straight & mechanically sorted M3 for $7k, and a decent SC for $12k. Good drivers are double now, at least.

nope > GrauGeist
12/18/2013 at 15:35

I would also give a recommendation for an E36 M3. Since you're (the OP) writing about distance in kms, I'm assuming you live in a country that has easy access to the Euro E36 M3. I love my US E36 M3, but I'm sure owning a Euro version would melt my face.

Tarukai > rabidpenguin
12/18/2013 at 15:38

Sounds like a few excuses to praise when he actually compared it mainly with an older 911.

TheCrudMan > GrauGeist
12/18/2013 at 15:41

Not according to Doug Demuro. He knows what he's talking about too: he's owned six Porsches!

SheerHippo > Justin Young
12/18/2013 at 15:51

"Rice, TX"

damthisburnershitsucks > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
12/18/2013 at 15:51

I've put about 600k on three accords ( '94, '03, and my current dd an '04). The handling is competent, the engines have plenty of power and are smooth, and the build quality is great, nearly 10 years on and 150k with no rattles or shakes. On a straight highway my 150k '04 will track perfect with no hands on the wheel. Every time I get in something else I am reminded that the accord simply does everything really well... doesn't make me miss my '79 320i any less but it died long time ago.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > damthisburnershitsucks
12/18/2013 at 15:54

I had a 94 Integra GS-R for 3 years and an 03 Accord coupe for another 3. This was during my high school and college days, and I mercilessly abused them both. Never missed a tick and we're practically unbreakable, aside from what I broke on them.

So now I have an 08 Si Sedan :D

Malforus > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
12/18/2013 at 15:55

Definitely, and especially for those of us who don't have the time or money to open up the engine on a twice-monthly basis we prefer our spirited cars just plain work.

ACCEL_ENG > t_s
12/18/2013 at 15:56

Best Post on Jalopnik in the last 5 years. Too many people read one article about the E30 M3, and suddenly it achieves God like status. Also i think that Porsche is a wee bit over rated too.... I'd rather have the S2000.... It is truly so much greater than the sum of its parts...

ACCEL_ENG > t_s
12/18/2013 at 15:58

I too would rather have the E36M3, and then promptly turbo the ever living snot out of it...

Or the E46, because I have a 45 minute commute and luxury is nice.. or the V8 m3,, oh my the V8 M3....

magman007 > rigidjunkie
12/18/2013 at 16:01

I am not sure I can quantify my answer. I think at its current pricing, its the best bang for the buck in a car. The only reason I didn't buy another is because I have always wanted an STi.

It was a much more expensive car than what you pay, so the luxury you expect is there on the interior, and on the workmanship. It had great driving dynamics, an excellent balance of power and handling, civil around town but knew how to let its hair down. Great steering feel, fantastic engine, great overall package.

Its everything that makes the e30 great, just better.

Its not without its down sides, there were a lot of small annoyances with the car, hard to mod without a trust fund, but I block those thoughts out and seem to just remember the good times.

My STi is a fantastic car, but its a different car, I cannot simply look, pitch, and throttle my way through a drifty corner with the STi, the m3 made that shit easy. (both)

Nitzer Ebblestone > t_s
12/18/2013 at 16:05

I think that if you're a 911 person, getting into an M3 is always going to be underwhelming. I tried an M3 when I was attempting to find a car that somehow combined 911 with a more practical car (i.e. more luggage/people space). I don't think it can be done. I came away sad and unimpressed. The same thing happened when I tried a Z4. The BMWs are fun cars but somehow just don't communicate with you the way that a 911 does. Probably nothing with an engine up front can communicate the same way as a mid or rear-engined car.

Casper > t_s
12/18/2013 at 16:08

I can honestly say I have felt the same about E30s. They are interesting, but if I had one that I really wanted to have fun with, it would be engine swapped and built up. I just can't see what other people do in the stock cars.

I think people are just infatuated with the "history" of the car more than the driving character. If I could find a cheap one for lemons, it would be a great fit.

Bill Caswell > t_s
12/18/2013 at 16:09

You might think you dislike the M3 but really just learned that you like street cars. The M3 was built for racing, for racetracks. Take it to a real track and you will own your SC all day long. Back when these cars were out they would eat 911s at the Nurburgring.

So it sounds like you bought it for the boy racer look and found it that its not a boy racer fast but a 4cyl. May I suggest a corvette? It will do EVERYTHING you are looking for on the street.

Kerberos824 > t_s
12/18/2013 at 16:10

While perusing the SC market, like I often do, I came across this nice one on eBay.

Kinja'd!!!

I'm not all that knowledgeable about them, I just desperately want one. I noticed the little outlet pipe coming out from the engine, and just badly want to know what it is and why its there. So I thought I would put this up here, since you mentioned your SC. No pressure, just idle curiosity.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Malforus
12/18/2013 at 16:13

Could not have said it better. I've driven a lot of European car (I worked as a lot attendant at a VW and Volvo dealership for a year and a half) and while they are nice, I'm not sure they're that much nicer than the Japanese competition. It might be easier to justify the newer ones since German reliability has actually come up in the past couple years, but old German vs old Japenese? No way.

rigidjunkie > magman007
12/18/2013 at 16:17

Thanks, I had a modded car and don't think I will do that again as the money I invested didn't translate to more enjoyment of the car. I have driven a few E46s and just love them, the only reason I bought the WRX was it fell in my lap for a very low price so I jumped on it. I autoX and every time I go I kick myself for getting the WRX it isn't very adjustable in the corners and I know the M3 would have been much more fun to drive competitively.

Jon > t_s
12/18/2013 at 16:18

I've seen this a few times...where someone who owns/is used to a Porsche picks up an E30 M3 and is underwhelmed. I've also seen where BMW aficionados pick up a Porsche 911 and are similarly underwhelmed.

I'm wondering if it's simply difficult for someone who is used to/enamored with one approach to fall in love with the other company's approach.

It's like the best version of a particular song is the first one you heard. The best car in Porsche vs BMW is the first one you've owned...

GrauGeist > TheCrudMan
12/18/2013 at 16:19

Perhaps he's just more of a Porsche guy than a BMW guy. No harm, no foul there.

PardonMyFlemish16 > t_s
12/18/2013 at 16:45

Thank God you actually owned it and gave it a fair shake. No flame suit necessary.

E30 would probably make for a great track car, but on the street midrange torque is king. I had a DOHC VTEC Accord (cammed H22A) and some buddies with S2Ks and other DOHC VTEC cars. It gets old on the street. I have a 350Z now and while it doesn't rev to 9,000, it doesn't have to. If I have it past 4K on the street I'm doing too much.

Cars have to be built for their environments. The E30 M3 is really a race car. I'm sure built and used in that context its a thriller. But on the street a peaky engine just effing sucks. Give me midrange all day.

Ricky Weston > t_s
12/18/2013 at 16:50

I don't care for the E30 either, but I sure wish I did. The size, the looks, the heritage...and then you push on the gas pedal... No no, not gas pedal, pedal that makes some exhaust noise a little bit louder. It doesn't actually move the car forward. The cars forward motion is controlled by wind. If a stiff enough breeze comes along you might hit 20 mph! What a disappointing car. Maybe an S52/S54 swap would improve things...

mythrenegade > rabidpenguin
12/18/2013 at 16:51

I think the real issue is the price point these cars have achieved. The E30 M3 is a wonderful car. And I nearly bought one. When they were 10 grand. But when I look at the $30K-$50K price tags being asked now and look at what else is available in that price range it's insane.

I currently drive an E36 M3 (convertible) and LOVE the car. And I paid a little north of 10 grand for it. The E30 has more panache and more heritage, but I'd rather have my car.

BiffMagnetude > t_s
12/18/2013 at 17:05

I have often wondered about this. I have almost pulled the trigger on an E30 a couple of times, but I have never driven one. I fear having the same experience. Perhaps sometimes it is better to let the fantasy stay a fantasy

magman007 > rigidjunkie
12/18/2013 at 17:06

I completely understand, however the m3 isn't the end all be all either, on any track. I have seen wrx's out run them, and them be out run by e36 m3's as well, then some guy in an austin sprite on steroids blows both out of the water. You just have to drive them differently. The M3 will do all the fun slidey stuff, the wrx likes to grip, run out of grip and you're going to run a slow time. The m3 definitely rotates on throttle better mid corner, however the wrx lets you stomp on it and point and it will sort out the rest. Try driving one if you get a chance, its a great car but dont feel bad about your wrx, they're fantastic cars as well, and you can add some enjoyment for cheap with mods, power is ridiculously easy to get out of them for a thousand dollars you can add something like 60 hp easily.

digitalgulby > t_s
12/18/2013 at 17:19

Interesting read. My late 80s favorite comparable model would be the Porsche 951. (944 turbo S)

I may be slightly biased but not totally. My dad bought this car as his first company car back in 1990, but I myself am a M3 owner (e46). I remember that Porsche being awesome, and it would stomp the snot of the E30 M3 for LESS MONEY

TheSergeMeister > GrauGeist
12/18/2013 at 17:21

I find the e36 so ugly in every way possible, and thats coming from someone who loves the e30 46 92.

DreaminShelby427 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
12/18/2013 at 17:32

Not if it's a 2008-2010 civic. Worst feel ever. Thought it was gonna flip over in heavy winds.

DreaminShelby427 > magman007
12/18/2013 at 17:34

The god car is a 2002 M2. Where it really started AND what it evolved to.