Help Me Decide: Porsche 944 vs. Miata vs. E36 M3

"Jay Lauer" (thefaultinourcars)
12/16/2013 at 22:26 • Filed to: None

Same question as last night, but now I'm considering a E36 M3

I've come down to two possible choices for my next mode of transportation. When spring comes, I'm looking to sell the E46 330xi, and buy something simpler. Most of all the criteria I'm about to list is based on logic, except this one. I've always wanted a convertible, but haven't had the opportunity to own one yet. Keep that in mind.

In the Red Corner: Porsche 944 Non-Turbo

-Looks better.

-Loads of Cargo Space

-Great driving position

-Gas Mileage

-More Comfortable Cruiser

-Better Low End Torque

-German Quality

-I get to tell people I drive a Porsche

If I can get a good 944 Turbo for cheap, all bets are off. I would buy that.

In the Blue Corner: Mazda Miata

-Better Gas Mileage

-Lighter

-Convertible

-Cheaper to Run

-Possibility of Power Adders

-Will Get Made Fun Of

-Cheaper to Buy

Lastly, E36 M3

-Best Made

-Most Horsepower

-Most refined

-Possibly good gas mileage (I have no clue)

-Most comfortable cruiser

-Other stuff....

I should explain the use of the car as well. I don't aspire to do any tracks days. Even if I did, I don't want that to be the car's purpose. I drive back and forth to campus and work. 50/50 Mix of City/Highway driving. Gas Mileage is obviously important. Also, I have full access to my father's mechanic shop so I can do most all of my own work.

You can suggest other cars of course, I encourage it. Just don't be offended if I don't care for the choice. Also, I know the whole Miata argument about not caring what other people think of your car and all. It's just a fact that a Miata will be made fun of at some point, no matter how great it is.

Also, I'm not looking to sink in lots of money for modifications. Fixer uppers welcome. Mild tasteful mods at best. Lastly, and most importantly, I want to make money on this as well.

DISCUSSION (52)

PowderHound > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:28

Take time and get a 944 turbo. Make the drive if you have to

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:30

The E36 will give you both happiness and heartbreak. I love my 328i, but I've had to work on it

E30Joe drives a Subaru > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:30

I can only speak on behalf of the M3, extremely capable chassis, responds well to upgrades, pretty reliable, OK mileage, plenty fast in stock trim, really overall a fun car and I regret not buying one when I had the perfect chance.

McChiken116 - Patrick H. > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:31

The thing with the E36 and 944, is that you really have to look to make sure they are clean examples. A bad one of those will have you spending double what you paid for it. The miata is the miata though. Can leak oil, can be silly, that sorta stuff. What's your budget?

dogisbadob > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:31

The answer is Miata of course, but especially considering the reason you're making this choice.

Simpler and German just don't go together haha

The E36 will probably be almost as expensive and shit as your E46, especially an M.

The Audi won't be any better, either.

Jay Lauer > PowderHound
12/16/2013 at 22:31

I'll drive 6 hours tops. Finding my last car, I drove about 5.5 hours to possibly buy an Audi S4. Through all of the calls and endless texts making sure nothing could be an issue, the owner failed to mention the tranny was starting to let go. Excuse me if I'm a bit apprehensive on long drives.

+1 for 944 Turbo. I do really want one. They'll surely appreciate in value

Ian Duer (320b) > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:32

You say get to campus and I watch the 944 go right to last place, not because I hate the car but because two people I went to school with who couldn't keep theirs on the road. If it were me I'd avoid the 2-door E36 models entirely due to the crap metal used in the window regulators and the necessity of the power windows to function in order for the door to seal properly. If you can find the E36 M3 as a sedan as in your final picture then that's my answer, with the Miata in a very close second.

Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:32

Get the M3 because powaaahhhh

offroadkarter > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:32

944 turbo > E36 M3 > 944 non turbo > miata

thats my vote

my neighbor used to have two 944 turbos, they were really cool cars.

Jay Lauer > E30Joe drives a Subaru
12/16/2013 at 22:32

what's the mileage like?

And as an automatic E46 owner, I would really like the chance to own a "proper" BMW

exizeo - still loving fourza > dogisbadob
12/16/2013 at 22:33

E36's are pretty bulletproof iirc. Not sure, but I recall the M52 being amazing (US Spec)

Once_upon_a_pvt > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:33

944 if you can find a turbo, but I would go for the E36. I am biased though, I am moving to Germany in a couple weeks, so I could get parts easier. The logically sound choice is the Miata. Easy to maintain, parts are easier to find, they make different front ends if you're that worried about haters. But honestly anyone who hates on a well maintained and well modded Miate doesn't get to have an opinion anyway :)

AM3R > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:33

E36 M3. Parts aren't even bad if you DIY.. They just seem expensive becaue of broke people buying the dirt cheap M3's for sale nowadays.

Dr.d > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:34

these cars are all nothing alike other than being rwd but i see your e36 m3 and raise you an audi b5 s4. awd>rwd and e36s are played out.

Dsscats > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:35

E36 all the way. It is a spectacularly balanced, pretty reliable, beautiful car that will run for a while.

MC_Leon6494 > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:36

I'd say Miata for a few reasons

1. Gas Mileage

2. Convertible (they're fun)

3. Good old JDM quality

4. Cheap (in comparison) to fix if anything goes wrong

5. Fun to drive!

This is hard for me because I frickin love the 944, and an e36 M3 would be amazing. But Miata makes the most sense

E30Joe drives a Subaru > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:37

Well, the S52 gets between 20 and 25 combined. I've seen almost 30 highway and I've seen well under 15mpg on a tank because of how you drive.

If you're delicate you can easily get 23 combined.

Fookin' Prawns > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:38

I get ~18.5 in a stock E36 325iC stick, but that's mostly city driving. If you're on the highway more it should be better.

PowderHound > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:40

What a dick. That's a pretty glaring issue. I have never been in a turbo 944, or a regular 944 or any porsche for that matter. However I imagine a turbo 944 is like a RWD, smaller, better handling, two door version of my WRX so DO IT!

Jay Lauer > McChiken116 - Patrick H.
12/16/2013 at 22:45

The budget really depends what kind of deal I can get on any of them. I'm certain I can sell my E46 for more than enough to buy either, but I'm a deal hunter.

Also, I always have my father (mechanic and shop owner for 30+ years) pre-inspect any purchases I make, so I'm not buying too much of a dog

Jay Lauer > PowderHound
12/16/2013 at 22:46

WRX owner? Nice, I had an 04 wagon before my BMW.

I would jump all over a cheap 944 if I could, they're just difficult to find now

Jay Lauer > Fookin' Prawns
12/16/2013 at 22:48

I was gonna say, that's not particularly good. My E46 330xi only got about 23.5 doing purely highway, which I wasn't to pleased about.

Jay Lauer > E30Joe drives a Subaru
12/16/2013 at 22:49

That sounds pretty promising.

I seem to have a keen ability to granny shift mileage out of cars (I got 33MPG once out of a 04 WRX) so that sounds like a practical car.

Khaos > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:49

i had a 944 turbo , my brother a e36 m3 and ive had a NA miata so i feel compelled to comment on this .

most fun to drive : hands down the 951(944 turbo) , put a smile on my face every time i got in it and had the power to compliment the handling . miata was also fun because you could push it to the limit , but being passed by a civic si is no fun . m3 was also fun but never could keep up with 951

best DD : m3 you can get it in 4 door or coupe truck space is good and it has a usable back seat . the porsche back seat u might as well keep folded down and increase the trunk space . but it is livable

aftermarket : Miata obviously blows the other 2 outta the water everything is customizable and the parts are cheap . m3 is the runner up . the porsche i pretty much just got all my parts from lindsey racing there's not a huge aftermarket .

cost of ownership. worst would be the porsche my oil pan gasket went and i had to oull the motor to change it . every part is up there in price compared with the other two but its a porsche so you kind of expect that . m3 was a good balance we never had any problems with my brothers but it had the possibility to be expensive to fix . the miata zero problems its a mazda would you expect anything less .

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Jay Lauer > MC_Leon6494
12/16/2013 at 22:50

You're probably the most right out of the bunch.

I'm still leaning in the Miata direction.

McChiken116 - Patrick H. > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:50

E46 M3? Or S2000? (totally not biased)

ddavidn > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:52

I would say Miata.

But I do love my E36 M3. If you get a good one, well maintained with records etc etc etc you will probably be good. Gas mileage will be between 20-25mpg if you don't floor it all the time. I can get 26mpg on the highway if I want to, and my injectors leak. It's relatively easy to work on, most parts are easy to order and not terribly expensive. Little bit tail happy with plenty of power, super comfortable and holds a surprising amount of stuff. And all of us E36 owners gotta stick together, so we are generally pretty nice to you. At least All of us on Oppo certainly are.

But a Miata will cause you less of a headache. That's the only reason I'd be for it.

PowderHound > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 22:53

I hear ya. When I got rid of my old legacy wagon it took me a while to find what I wanted. luckily my buddy decided to sell me his 03 wagon that he took real good mechanical care of. Exterior was a bit rough but hell, it's a subaru.

Jay Lauer > Khaos
12/16/2013 at 22:56

I actually do heavily prefer a sedan M3 if I could get it, but they're SO hard to find with a stick shift.

Also, a 951 would be a blast, but they're getting harder and harder to find as well.

I really do value the fact that you have first-hand experience with all of these. It helps a lot. Anything with 2 doors I don't bother with back seat space cause nobody would want to get in.

Seeing as how I don't keep cars much longer than 9 months or so, I may deal with the DD Miata problems to have a fun summer convertible.

But, it all depends on what type of deal I could find at the right time. Money trumps all.

Jay Lauer > PowderHound
12/16/2013 at 22:59

They're really great cars, I just wish I had gotten mine in blue. I wouldn't have much problem buying another if it wasn't too bad of shape. But, I like having variety in my wheelhouse, so I'll move on.

And the 02-03 seats are so superior it's not even funny. I bought a set cause my 04's were unbelievably uncomfortable.

PowderHound > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 23:01

I. LOVE. My seats. I ride in my housemates 2.5xt and keep thinking, why the hell am I sliding back and forth in the seat. I don't think I can ever get something without side bolsters again.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 23:03

I skip shift in everything I drive, gets a few extra MPG's.

Jay Lauer > PowderHound
12/16/2013 at 23:03

There's only one seat in the world that's better. SVO Recaro Mustang seats (just trust me)

My E46 Sport seats are ok, but I really miss the Subaru ones. If I buy a Miata, I'm seriously considering buying another pair of Subaru seats and bolting them in for comfort.

Jay Lauer > E30Joe drives a Subaru
12/16/2013 at 23:04

True, just getting to 5th by 40MPH makes a difference.

Khaos > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 23:10

if you go miata go 1.8 , bigger brakes and better diff besides the more power obviously

my brother had a coupe my best friend had the sedan but ive never been in a e36 m3 vert . if you really want a drop top that might be an option . most are auto but the 5 speed swap is easy we did it on my friends sedan. whatever you decide i wish you good luck with it

Lets Just Drive > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 23:14

The Miata, m'man.

Why?

Because eleventy bazillion dollars, that's why.

Let's consider the 944 first, shall we. Oh, nope. Never mind, let's consider it second or third when it gets back from the garage because it started smoking, or knocking or something.

Moving on to the Mmmm getting pulled over all the time 3. Because you'll be getting pulled over all the time, and ticketed many, those also expensive maitenance bills will get close to the eleventy bazillion you would have spent just so you could get away with wearing that Members Only jacket.

Okay, so Miata. Riiight, so you kind of look like a hairdresser or maybe a homosexual. Don't fret, it's like the year two thousand and something. The Mx5 has won. It's not a girls car any more. Well, it is to people who don't know shit but people who don't know shit will think you're either a huge egoist asshole or douchetastic buttbender in the Porsche or Bimmer because they're a Porsche and a Bimmer. They won't know it's an M3 and the people who know it's an M3 will be like, "Ehhh..." unless they happen to also own M3's. And who are you trying to impress with a 944? The early 90's? Naw, 80's because style.

But the Miata and make it yours. You'll have money to spend on the car to make it yours instead of to make it run. Get a custom hardtop. Put some aggressive bits on it. Stroke it. Stroke it. Mmmm, yesss. And once you're exhausted, park it. It won't get stolen, vandalized or broken into because it's a Miata unlike the 944 and M3 which you'll practically want to sleep in for fear of thieves and villains.

The Miata.

fastandstarving > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 23:18

I daily an 85.5 944 and have an E36 M3. Both are absolute riots to drive in their own ways. 944 drives like a go-kart but be prepared to find a well sorted one unless you have an infinite supply of funds and patience. As far as the E36 goes, I commuted daily to campus without any problems for a year or two. The car had AA headers, an AA track pipe and a UUC system U on it and sounded ungodly at WOT. Overall a real blast to drive. Only reason it's off the road is I'm turning it into a street/track car. Both are a riot to drive, but I'd really lean towards the E36 M3. 944s can be tough to find with a LSD, the E36 M3 proved more reliable, and the E36 M3 can actually fit more than one person. When you consider the back seat on the E36 M3 as well as the trunk, you have loads more cargo space than the 944. A proper suspension on the already excellent handling M3 and you have a winner.

Jay Lauer > Lets Just Drive
12/16/2013 at 23:30

Holy hot damn that was a compelling argument. If I wasn't already leaning Miata, I would be now. I would want to put some bits on it (fender flares, wheels) but no stance, no camber, none of that. It also will get the best mileage.

BTW, I'm going to have to steal 'douchetastic buttbender.' Expect to see it in an upcoming article.

Fookin' Prawns > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 23:39

Disclaimer: I may or may not be a bit of a leadfoot. But if you want good mileage, I'd probably skip the M3 :(

Lets Just Drive > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 23:49

Use it well for you know not the power of the douchetastic buttbender.

Also, when autocrossing or track day-ing your Miata with it's nicer rubber and such, you won't look a complete poseur. While the M3 would probably be fun at a track day, I'd be too worried about the next expensive thing that was going to break, or not brake... and in the 944 I'd just feel like a guy in a 944.

Jay Lauer > Lets Just Drive
12/16/2013 at 23:51

Damn, I could've used it anywhere in the Bro-Truck Review...

True, and seeing as how I haven't autocrossed before (really missed a good opportunity, having owned a WRX) I'd like something that will work well. Granted, I'm a pretty skilled driver, I like the safety of having no weight to screw with my racing.

911e46z06 > Jay Lauer
12/16/2013 at 23:59

Well, the e36 is the most powerful, best-handling, most practical, best built, and most fun on your list. So...

Lets Just Drive > Jay Lauer
12/17/2013 at 00:01

I had an STi!

I loved it so hard, I hated it.

What I mean is that loving it took effort, like I had to work hard at loving it. It was a never-meet-your-heroes period.

First, I used to work at a Subaru dealership as a kid. I was a detailer and lot jockey but I loved Subaru's. Okay, I loved some Subaru's. I knew that one day I was going to own an STI. Not just a Rex, but a full blooded STI.

And I got lucky, I got one. With almost nothing down, I signed away my name picking up a car that was a current model year and used at the same time because, you see, the previous owner had been just like me - eyes bigger than his stomach.

I wanted to love it but it felt like an ill-fitting ice skating boot. I'm a big guy and it pinched me everywhere. The seats, oh god those seats, caught me like a bed of rocks rushing up to meet my posterior and back every time I touched the throttle.

But it made great power, had four doors and would run with the mid-life crisis Porsche's and Corvettes up to the posted speed limit (or near it) for way less.

Or so I thought.

The insurance was murder.

The gas was murder.

Riding in it for more than an hour was murder.

The back seats, with my 6'5 frame, weren't actually back seats.

The payments were murder.

But despite all that, I tried to love it without compromise. I tried so hard but the fact was that it was slowly killing me and so, soon after I got it, I let the Scoobie go. To this day, I think that I may one day own another Impreza but I know that if I do, it'll be the slightly more friendly WRX.

But no, I never tracked mine either. I did take it over the Coquihalla in the dead of winter on studs and, besides the considerable physical pain and white knuckle stress, made good time without dying.

153624 - Straight Six > exizeo - still loving fourza
12/17/2013 at 00:08

E36s can be bulletproof. The failure points are very well documented but if you happen to buy a car that's been abused then you'll end up spending a lot of money. I'd expect to spend at least a few grand right after purchase if one is really worried about reliability.

I'm no expert, that's just been my experience with my pre 96 E36. I needed about two grand in miscellaneous broken things and then I eventually put another grand into reliability bits (replaced cooling system after it detonated on the track, etc.). You say you have access to a shop so you should be able to do a lot of work yourself on the cheap.

I do have to say though that the E36 is an absolutely fantastic car. Great chassis and an immensely communicative car.

Jay Lauer > Lets Just Drive
12/17/2013 at 00:09

02-03 WRX seats are like golden butterflies. I don't know where Subaru went wrong, but those seats are the greatest. It does depend if you're a bigger buy. But my 160lb ass loved them.

I'm surprised to hear gas was bad on a WRX. I know mines different, only being a WRX, but I got 27-28 almost always. I'd love to own an STi if the deal was ever right, but who knows.

Lets Just Drive > Jay Lauer
12/17/2013 at 00:13

Good luck finding one that wasn't beaten on by a guy like me.

And I was about 250lbs back then, at 6'5. I'm about ten pounds up on that since.

technoduck > Jay Lauer
12/17/2013 at 00:33

I have owned a '88 951 for the about 5 years, before that i owned both a '87 944 (8v n/a) for 4 years and '88 924S (basically a 1st gen 944 without the fender flares) for 2 years. All cars were daily driven and also saw plenty of autocross (the 944) and track days (the 951). I recently bought a '97 E36 M3 in August. I always wanted an E36, an estoril blue coupe exactly like the one pictured used to pass me every morning while i waited for my bus to pick me up at the corner. I said i would own one some day.All are great cars however most times i would objectively recommend the E36 M3 over the 944. I think both of these cars suffer the same fate of having relatively low prices of admission, so as a result the 'wrong' kind of previous owner did not keep up with the maintenance. A cheap 951, 944 or E36 will bleed you dry with repairs. As said a million times before, nothing is more expensive than a cheap Porsche and in most cases BMW applies also. The way i see it.. right off the bat, the 944 may need a timing belt and water pump addressed. Other issues are alot of vacuum lines and hoses which develop leaks after 25 years of heat cycles. The clutch is also a doozy, figure 6-8 hrs labor for an experienced shop to do it.

The E36 has its own common issues that may need to be addressed. The cooling system for starters; plastic thermostat housing, leaking end tanks on the radiator, original water-pump impeller problems, bad fan clutch. Etc. Basically i would plan on replacing the entire cooling system like i did for peace of mind if its original. Another issue are rear shock mounts, and basically every rubber bushing probably needing to be replaced. Also PS leaks are common on both the 944 and E36... what do you expect from old rubber!What is your level of mechanical expertise and what is your budget for repairs? The 944 non-turbo is relatively easy to work on, but does require some decent mechanical know-how for belts. The E36 i find in comparison extremely easy to work on. The 944 (in particular the 85.5+ models with updated interior) are very livable everyday but relativity slow by today's standards. The E36 is much more refined by comparison. More power and a capable chassis. If this is your only mode of transport, i would go E36 M3. If you have another car you can rely on and are willing to put the time and $ into the car, a 944, 951 or S2 are worth looking into.

I can write all day about both cars because i really enjoy both. I will probably never sell the 951 though, it has transitioned from bone stock, to heavily modded for track / street use. It is now powered by a 5.7L LS1. A few times while putting the car together i wondered why i didnt just buy a C5 Vette; but every time i look back after parking the car or take the 'long way' home i know why!

technoduck > Jay Lauer
12/17/2013 at 00:33

Inflame333 > Jay Lauer
12/17/2013 at 08:46

E36 hands down. They're not as unreliable and expensive as people may think. I personally trashed on my E46 non-stop for a year and didn't have to replace a damn thing. I even did 3 track days and about 5 autocrosses on OEM brake pads!

PhiLOL (slowcarSLOW-MPGlol) > Jay Lauer
12/18/2013 at 14:13

The good old folks on Grassroots Motorsports have been championing the E36 M3 as great livable performance/value for awhile. Lurk there to learn more about the car.

ejp > Jay Lauer
12/18/2013 at 22:22

I've owned a Miata and a 944 before. If it were between those two, I'd say Miata all day long.

The 944 is a far nicer car to drive every day. It is very comfortable, and has creature comforts like climate control and isn't ridiculously noisy. I could drive it all day and not be fatigued like in the Miata.

The Miata was so much more fun to drive, easier to rotate, and I liked it better on an autocross course and track. I know that you said that you have no track aspirations, but even whipping around local roads, the Miata was more fun and every bit as capable - more importantly - it FEELS faster. The Miata was FAR cheaper to own (the 944 was ridiculously expensive to own). The pendulum might swing the other way if you were looking at a 951, 944S2, or 968. But between the Miata and the 944 NA, I'd take a Miata all day long.

I can't speak for the M3, but that's not the generation that I'd want.

Side note: I was at the track a few years ago and I saw a 944 Turbo and 944S2 battling on the track. It was amazing; the Turbo would pass in a fast sweeper when it was on boost, but the S2 would pass it right back in a slower sweeper while the 951 was off boost. They were neck and neck. The turbo will probably be more fun, because turbos are hilariously fun, but if you can't find a turbo at the right price point but can find the S2 - I suggest that you seriously consider it (and don't bother with a 944S - kind of a joke).

Manuél Ferrari > Jay Lauer
12/19/2013 at 02:24

I didn't see the word "love" in your post.

Which car do you love most?