Here is how your flights will all get screwed up starting in Jan.

"Grindintosecond" (Grindintosecond) 12/16/2013 at 11:15 • Filed to: planelopnik

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Because I care about you...I will discuss the new rules affecting me. They will also affect you during bad weather airline days and make things worse. Because of a close look at how tired the pilots can get with the current 70's era rules in place, and it's effect on a certain crash in Buffalo a short while back, the FAA geniuses figured out that, after observing us work for 40 years, perhaps the pilots aren't getting enough sleep. I can tell you this is true. A lot. In fact I know of many pilots whose first rule upon returning from an overseas international flight, is "No powertools". So what's happening? The biggest change is to how much we can work and sleep in a day.

NOW: I can get assigned up to 8 hours of flying for a single day. I can be AT work for up to 16 hours, within that is where I fly the 8 maximum. The current rules say if it takes me more than 8 hours to fly that assignment, then cool go do it just don't bust that 16 hours. So we did. Frequently. My record so far is just over 10 hours flying to complete a 7 hour assignment. Weather, snow, holding, fuel diversions, etc. all play a part in that horrible day it was. If we are truly worn out and exhausted at any point in that big stretch of hours to finish the trip, then yes we can tell them we are Fatigued, fill out a report, and then go collapse at a hotel somewhere but most often we are able to finish the schedule. they could also give us 9 hours of rest in between trips that includes travel to and from the hotel, going through security, and trying to eat something in there. Oh, we do have to find some kind of sleep as well. Out of 9 hours, I'll get 6 of sleep.

JANUARY-5: New rules say I become a pumpkin at X hours. I stop. I go to the hotel and sleep. If the maximum scheduled hours is 8, I cannot fly more than 8 to finish that schedule. period. Unlike before. This means if we have to divert to get more fuel somewhere else, you could very well be stuck there because I cannot take off again to get you to your destination if I will exceed that maximum limit of hours. Another fresh crew would have to do that....where would they find them is a mystery. I now get a minimum of 10 hours of rest between trips no matter what and in that I must have the ability to sleep for 8. This is all good for the flight crew working your flight to grandma's house, but given how weather can screw anyone with delays or cancellations, now they will have to worry about where the flight crews are going to get stuck at because they FAA will no longer let the airlines attempt to work them silly tired. (Some regional airlines in the past have been very bad at that.)

So what does this mean to you? Well, don't go and travel on bad weather days especially in the afternoon. Fly in the mornings. In the afternoon or night on bad weather days at large airports, there will be flight crews all timed out being sent to hotels at airports they weren't supposed to be at in the first place and planes and passengers stuck there until morning or until they get another crew in place. Oh, the biggest thing, the airline will NOT GIVE YOU A FREE HOTEL ROOM. Not unless it was their fault....and bad weather is not their fault . You didn't plan ahead. That's how they look at it.

Good luck traveling this season, keep in mind that in January, things change and everyone at the airlines have to see how it really affects operations. they've been working at it, some more than others, but it will take a bit to see it all pan out. I hope you get where you're going safely.

KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb > Grindintosecond 12/16/2013 at 11:20

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Goddamn, is that shitty. Hope nothing happens to me on my flight back on the 5th.

Dukie - Jalopnik Emergency Management Asshole > Grindintosecond 12/16/2013 at 11:20

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New rules say I become a pumpkin at X hours. I stop. I go to the hotel and sleep. If the maximum scheduled hours is 8, I cannot fly more than 8 to finish that schedule. period.

Sounds similar to crew rest procedures in the military.

For Sweden > Grindintosecond 12/16/2013 at 11:20

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We're working on getting more sleep to the controllers as well. Wish us luck.

/Your Friends in the Air Safety Community

Converse > Grindintosecond 12/16/2013 at 11:21

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Thank you for the heads up. I've always prefered early flights (silly early to be exact) because there it is less likely for crazy delays to occur. Hopefully I can keep that trend going.

Good luck!

quarterlifecrisis > Grindintosecond 12/16/2013 at 11:21

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First reaction: Balls

Second reaction: Sadly, it means that the FAA is now getting closer to DOT regs put in place for truck drivers. Sure, there exist ways to circumvent the system, but lets face it...the folks pilot metal missles full of people several miles above the ground aren't at the top of my list of "people I want to see tired at work."

Grindintosecond > For Sweden 12/16/2013 at 11:23

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Hells yeah! Just talked to one of you a day ago and there's letters being sent from the airlines asking for no holding or reducing the holding....I don't get it because they're not putting as much gas on board now so it's a bad situation. can't hold, cant keep flying to finish = lot's of stuck diversions. I wish you luck because your workload will go up with this I think, having to reroute for diversion traffic.

Grindintosecond > Converse 12/16/2013 at 11:24

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Yep. Also early first flight of the day stuff means passengers missing the flight so you could get a nicer seat, and the later flights will all be oversold with people on standby waiting to get on cause they slept in.

For Sweden > Grindintosecond 12/16/2013 at 11:26

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Well, luckily I'm not a controller; I just research accidents and incidents and teach people to do the same.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Grindintosecond 12/16/2013 at 11:30

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Thanks for the heads up, this is good to know.

thebigbossyboss > Grindintosecond 12/16/2013 at 11:33

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So, the airlines think, you didnt plan ahead to have a hotel room ready, at an airport, where you weren`t expected to be?

Converse > Grindintosecond 12/16/2013 at 11:38

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Digging the upgrades! Hopefully I won't lose my status with Delta. I finally reached status in September, but it expires in February. My first gig isn't scheduled until March...

Here's hoping something comes before then!

Grindintosecond > thebigbossyboss 12/16/2013 at 11:41

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No, they think you didn't plan ahead because you chose to fly on a horrible weather day. Just like driving in a tornado or going to work in an icy blizzard aren't good ideas, choosing to fly during terribly delay giving snows and rains is your choice, so they aren't at fault for your travel decisions. If the plane breaks and isn't repairable in time and the flight cancels for the night, then yeah you get free hotel stays and food vouchers.

That's just how they look at it.

Grindintosecond > Converse 12/16/2013 at 11:43

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Yeah good on you! I don't get any mileage points or anything at any time unless I buy a ticket....well I do get free standby travel. However good that really is for me cause flights are always full and paying standby goes ahead of me and my family....there aren't 4 open seats that often.

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > Grindintosecond 12/16/2013 at 13:45

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The exact same thing happened with truckers over at DOT with their hours of service rules. WSJ did a decent article on it recently.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/…

Chatham Harrison dba SPANFELLER DELENDUS EST > Dukie - Jalopnik Emergency Management Asshole 12/17/2013 at 13:25

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Came to say the same thing. My dad missed a Christmas because his plane (he was crew chief) had to divert and wasn't allowed to fly anymore that day.

Erzhik Tem > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 13:33

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So to avoid getting screwed, I should rent a Lamborghini Aventador Roadster. Got it.

Pcannizzaro1986 > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 13:34

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The airforce let's is fly 24hrs and 45 min then 12hrs off and do it again and again and again

ncasolowork2 > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 13:38

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Solution: Every airline is required to have a flight crew on standby at any airport they operate out of. In fact I'm thinking they might even need more than one flight crew on standby. While I don't necessarily consider these to be bad rules I do have to say that when i book a flight to get from Point A to point B in a certain amount of time I need to arrive to Point B at a certain point and time and usually with some margin for error but not likely 24 hours margin for error.

This will create jobs and it will probably increase the cost of airfare, but you can't just leave people stranded because your flight got diverted and your pilot has to sleep for 8 hours. In the restaurant industry you staff according to volume. Apparently in the airline industry you need to staff according to weather.

shieldsdb > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 13:39

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Completely unrelated post: I just commented on a article over on Jezebel. I may not make it through the night.

Goodbye, dear Jalops!

Racescort666 > quarterlifecrisis 12/17/2013 at 13:41

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Not always metal. But you make an excellent point.

Diesel > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 13:41

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I know how to avoid this hassle. Drive a GTR! I hate flying, but mostly it's because of the TSA.

Seitz > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 13:43

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so if I normally fly at about 5-6am? where does that leave me?

Maxxuman > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 13:46

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Of course to get a decent fare you have to book long before you know what sort of weather you'll be in for...

jariten1781 > ncasolowork2 12/17/2013 at 13:50

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I'm sure the airlines have already been running metrics for how many on-site backup crews and on call crews that they need at which airports. On small weather events I'd guess that in hubs for major carriers will only experience minor change but that discount carriers will have a lot more difficulty. In major weather events you're pretty much SOL anyway.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 13:52

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Does this apply just to 121 ops or 135 too? A few years ago I flew for a charter company, and on a few occasions we'd bump up against our max duty times. We could still be asked to ferry an aircraft somewhere because that's a part 91 flight and doesn't count against the max duty time.

BeaterGT > Seitz 12/17/2013 at 13:57

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You should be fine barring bad weather days where at that point it is out of your control since you don't know anything about the pilot's schedule nor if your plane will be delayed, how long the delay will be, etc.

*I could be wrong but early bird catches the worm applies to most scenarios.

TheRallyStache > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 13:58

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As a ramp worker/ticket counter worker, I am glad that the pilots will be getting much needed rest but not so glad about having to deal with the flood of angry passengers...oh well.

ejp > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 14:01

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I'm curious - do you have a better proposal for handling pilot fatigue? It seems clear that you agree that a problem exists...but it also seems that you don't agree with the solution (or are uncertain that airlines will be able to handle the new rules).

What do you feel that the FAA should have done differently?

quarterlifecrisis > Racescort666 12/17/2013 at 14:03

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Semantics. Metal seemed easiest instead of saying composite, metal, or to be fair to our friends stuck in the 1920s, wood/canvas/fabric/bits of string missiles.

195100003 > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 14:03

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So it's my fault I booked a flight 3-5 months before the weather forecast is even available for that specific day, and even still weather forecasts are usually wrong.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 14:06

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That just seems silly, I for example, usually buy plane tickets way in advance (which I am sure a lot of others do as well), because one, it is cheaper, and more importantly, I am military, so I have to have all of this stuff done and spoken for (getting a flight, dates, etc) in line, usually at least 2 weeks to a month out. And we all know how finicky it is correctly predicting weather just a few days out is, nevermind a month out. Just seems like flying is less and less the way to go, I will be taking a trip to Texas from Virginia this summer, and I am seriously contemplating just driving there, because it will be easier and less of a headache then flying, to me anyways. Just seems fucked up to be honest, the airports pretty much giving you the finger if you get stranded.

Racescort666 > quarterlifecrisis 12/17/2013 at 14:06

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Semantics, agreed. Sorry. There are some beautiful wood and canvas aircraft though. Or as I like to call it "advanced organic composite."

quarterlifecrisis > Racescort666 12/17/2013 at 14:07

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Something something Stagger all the Wings.

StevenG > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 14:11

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Horsehit.

If the plane is broken they will do what they do now. Delay 3 hours, then move you to another flight. A new non-existant one, which they will cancel after a 3 hour delay. I had United do this to me for more than 12 hours one day, they refused to pay for meals, hotel, anything. They said I was only waiting 3 hours each time.

Dildolio > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 14:13

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I have a hard time flying a damn desk when I'm tired. It's pretty scary to think what pilots must go through.

Maybe airlines will hire more pilots to cover the gap! (I know, I know...unlikely)

StevenG > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 12/17/2013 at 14:14

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I just did a TX to NY car drive and back. Hunting trip and my hunting buddy refuses to listen to the logic of shipping meat back as luggage. It sucks. Sure flying sucks, but 24 hours worth of driving is horrible.

tonered > ncasolowork2 12/17/2013 at 14:17

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Great idea, but I think the crux of the problem is the lack of aircrews in the first place.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > StevenG 12/17/2013 at 14:19

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Yeah, that is what is holding me back, the good ol 20 hour drive. I had to drive from Kansas to where I live now in VA, it was a bit of a mission, but to be honest if it was only me, I probably would do it and do it with my 944, I'm just one of those people that absolutely loves driving, but a 20 hour drive with a 3 year old, ehhh, it's not very fun. But I mean when it comes down to it, it's all about time, and money, flying is the smarter idea, less time, and even if it is a bit more, it's less wear and tear on a car that has major servicing coming up. I just don't like that so much is completely out of your control when flying though, like weather, delays, surprise repairs on a plane

Jon > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 14:19

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On the one hand, YAY (hopefully) fewer crashes due to pilot fatigue!

On the other hand, OH NO I'm stuck in Scranton!

On the third (what?) hand, YAY I can hopefully meet my favorite band, Gus Polinski and the Kenosha Kickers!

Done with Kinja > Racescort666 12/17/2013 at 14:35

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Damn that is a beautiful plane!

Collin > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 14:39

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Pilots also only get paid based on hours in the air, right? So won't this be cutting down on how much they're paid?

Justin > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 14:42

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solution= 3 pilots + a sleeping cot in the pilots cabin.

trydljkh > quarterlifecrisis 12/17/2013 at 15:01

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trydljkh > quarterlifecrisis 12/17/2013 at 15:01

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Dave > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 15:08

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It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Not having a flight crew available to fly the plane seems like an airline problem, much like a mechanical failure. I have to schedule my flight so far in advance that I can speculate on the climate, not the weather. The airline, on the other hand, has no such scheduling problem and enough warning of weather problems to have standby crews in the right places.

Racescort666 > Done with Kinja 12/17/2013 at 15:11

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Beech Model 17, probably one of my favorite of all time. Right up there with the Grumman X-29:

greenagain > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 12/17/2013 at 15:12

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I too hate the rigamarole attached to flying these days. Also, to overcome an issue with one pilot ( like being tired?) isn't that why there is a copilot?

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > greenagain 12/17/2013 at 15:14

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No idea, that would be more of a question for Grind to answer

Thunder > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 15:18

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Is that certain crash in Buffalo Colghan (or however it's spelled) Air?

Was that a crew rest issue? I thought it was just a pilot overcome by self-preservation, hauling the yoke back into their lap while the plane stalled.

BTW, I have my private with about 90 hours total time. Hoping to go for complex endorsement over the holiday.

jaczor > Racescort666 12/17/2013 at 15:29

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There is still some metal involved, no?

DavidMichaelangelo > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 15:34

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Okay, so if we see that there is going to be bad weather coming up we're supposed to think ahead and just cancel our flight?

thebigbossyboss > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 12/17/2013 at 15:36

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I hear that. Where I live now, and where I grew up are 62 hours by car. I`ve only driven it once. Just don`t have the time for a 3 day roadtrip all the time lol.

FlyingSanchez > thebigbossyboss 12/17/2013 at 15:38

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No, that is not the reason why. Airlines can not control the weather and they cannot control Air Traffic Control. So they see it the same way as if you were driving somewhere and had to stop due to bad weather. Maintenance and crew scheduling cancellations are theoretically controllable. If they had a better maintenance or crew schedule the delay / cancellation would not happen. So they compensate for those.

thebigbossyboss > FlyingSanchez 12/17/2013 at 15:40

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Neither can I also control the weather. Especially when I have to book 3-4 months out. This is why I almost always drive anywhere within 12-14 hours of here, and only fly when I have to make it across the entire country.

Michael H > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 15:41

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I'll take an inconvenient delay over a tired pilot endangering my safety. Airlines will figure something out to keep the service level acceptable.

Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! > Thunder 12/17/2013 at 15:47

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It was Colgan flight 3407. Lack of rest played a major part in it.

Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! > Collin 12/17/2013 at 15:50

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Yes. New schedules result in about a 20% pay cut due to the new rules at some airlines.

pc36 > thebigbossyboss 12/17/2013 at 15:53

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Try living in Alaska...ain't gonna happen...it's a 4 day drive if weather is good, and then you gotta deal with border patrols twice, that ain't always pretty. Up here, you fly. This is gonna be ridiculous if it's enforced.

HowardRoark > jariten1781 12/17/2013 at 15:55

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Of course not every flight crew is able all to operate all the different types of aircraft their carriers have. So you might have an Airbus 320 land and could have a crew trained for a Boeing 757/767.

The possibilities are numerous. I wonder if the new HOS regs will further encourage regional jets over the big jets?

zakany001 > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 16:00

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They will have to hire more pilots to be an attractive travel option. It's not like pilots are well-compensated anymore.

totalrunout > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 16:04

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Can this be taken to imply that the airlines will be hiring more pilots?

ejp > 195100003 12/17/2013 at 16:04

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I think that the question that you should be asking is not whether or not the weather is your fault. Is it more your responsibility to cover your weather-related costs than the airlines? I don't think that it should be on the airline to cover your expenses for a situation that was beyond their control. If they were, all of our tickets prices would have to be padded to account for this.

Now, with that said; I think that the airlines can offer a concession here. How about fee-free ticket changes if you decide that the risk of weather delay is too great for you to want to fly that day?

klurejr > quarterlifecrisis 12/17/2013 at 16:07

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The rules in place for truckers actually makes everything worse for the responsible drivers. Basically rules like this are designed to affect the people who are trying to do dangerous things.

My father is a Truck Driver, and the way the rules work is he has to stop and park the truck at certain time intervals whether he is tired or not. He will try to sleep, but that does not work for every human being, most need to sleep when they are tired. Then when his rest period is over he MUST get back on the road or risk losing money and deliveries, tired or not.

The problem was that some truck drivers just drove no matter what and never stopped, even when tired, and the rules were put in place to try and prevent that kind of behavior..... but like many rules regarding the road, they don't work as intended.

It would be better if Drivers were allowed to drive until they were tired, and then were responsible enough to stop at that point and sleep and then get back on the road after they are rested. But to many people would abuse that system.

Racescort666 > jaczor 12/17/2013 at 16:12

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Some but by weight, composite on the Dreamliner far exceeds metal.

quarterlifecrisis > klurejr 12/17/2013 at 16:16

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Trust me, I'm right there with you. QuarterLifeCrisis, Sr. has been in the industy since the late 70s, as an owner, owner/operator, dispatcher, driver, and in his most recent iteration, Director of Safety for a refinery that also runs a fleet of trucks. I grew up around this stuff, and grew up hearing about logs, stupid accidents, and my favorite the SFTD. I'll give you a hint, the S stands for stupid, and TD stands for truck driver.

Snorski > Converse 12/17/2013 at 16:18

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If you reached status in September of this year, it will expire February 2015, unless you get enough miles/segments in 2014. Also starting in 2014, there is a specified $ amount you have to spend with Delta to earn your status.

dave the swede car guy > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 16:19

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thank you for the info, and for proving my original thought that flying a distance of less than 1000 miles simply isn't worth the aggravation. I'll be in my car for that trip, driving.

Converse > Snorski 12/17/2013 at 16:30

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Fantastic. I need work in January, to keep my status, and to afford living expenses.

Thanks for the heads up.

klurejr > quarterlifecrisis 12/17/2013 at 16:35

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I guess one huuuuge difference between Pilots and Truck Drivers is there is always a second pilot on board, so why do both need to be at the controls at the same time? Perhaps one can take a nap while the other flies the plane if for some reason delays might push them past the normal working limit.

Reborn Pyrrhic > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 12/17/2013 at 16:40

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Shit, I am military and I always have to wait for the last minute to buy my airplane ticket because my damn leave form is sitting on some colonel's desk, and since he's so busy with FRG and VTC meetings, and keeping his majors and captains in line he has no time to get to my leave form until it's seven days out. Fifteen years in the service and I have never had a leave form signed quickly. It just keeps getting worse and worse every year. When I first joined you needed a leave request form and a copy of your LES. Now you need that plus AT Level 1 certificate, company leave request sheet, SERE 100 certificate, S2 briefing, composite risk assessment, POV travel plans, travel itinerary, etc. The red tape to get some time off is insane. I am so glad I have less than five years left in this machine.

East-West Brothers Garage > ejp 12/17/2013 at 16:49

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Actually, that would be a reasonable compromise, but few companies are in the business of being reasonable or compromising. I think people would have fewer issues with weather delays and paying for the resulting challenges if they were not being nickeled and dimed to death with fees (e.g. luggage fees, booking fees, change fees, etc.) and forced to book flights months in advance just to get a decent price. Blaming the passengers for not anticipating weather delays is just as bad as passengers blaming the airlines for them. In the end, everyone is just pissed off.

burningnames > 195100003 12/17/2013 at 16:50

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I don't think they are saying it is *your* fault — they are mainly saying it clearly isn't *their* fault, so why should they comp you food+hotel?

FlippyCake > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 17:02

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How does this affect the lines that are 10-13 hours straight flight time? Say from Portland,OR to Amsterdam?! Will they need to have a standby crew on the plane to take over after 8 hours, or just drop the plane down anywhere where it seems convenient?!

ejp > East-West Brothers Garage 12/17/2013 at 17:04

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Yeah, travel can be tough; which is the reason why so many people have a hard time looking at how it all works with any level of objectivity. We just expect to be bent over by the airlines...even when (sometimes), the policies can make sense.

To their credit, airlines do often offer free changes when severe weather is predicted. It's just not mandated - and doesn't happen all the time. It generally has to be a gnarly storm tying up multiple hubs. I'd love to see it more often, though.

thebigbossyboss > pc36 12/17/2013 at 17:04

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I feel you.

My family is from Vancouver, I live near Quebec, it's about 62 hours.

Designated Survivor #3 > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 17:07

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Just for these reasons (crew delay, bad weather, cascading system slowdowns, etc.) I always, always, always depart in the morning, even if it means spending the night to catch a morning flight. Only when there is absolutely no other option will I book a flight that departs after 10:00 local time.

EmotionalFriend > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 17:18

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How To Avoid Getting Screwed After January 5th: Don't fly. Ever again.

Even before this new regulation flying was the absolute worst way of getting anywhere domestically. It's expensive, stressful, and a horrible value in most cases (for my $800 I get to use half my seat because the fat mouth-breathers on either side of me are taking up a quarter each) and when you take into account delays, layovers, and the process itself and unless you're going across the country you might as well have just driven for all the time you save. I hope Elon Musk is working hard on the Hyperloop.

DannyO > Racescort666 12/17/2013 at 17:22

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Yes indeed.

WHAT IS THIS GORGEOUS PLANE. I MUST KNOW.

DannyO > Racescort666 12/17/2013 at 17:24

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Nevermind, I just read your comment below. Awesome.

Racescort666 > DannyO 12/17/2013 at 17:29

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Beech Model 17 Staggerwing.

Racescort666 > DannyO 12/17/2013 at 17:31

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Nbd. There have been enough people being assholes to me so I figured I'd just be nice and answer people'a questions.

Converse > Snorski 12/17/2013 at 17:35

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Can't find the edit button, so I will do it this way. I could've sworn my Medallion status said it expires in Feb 2014. However, after checking on Delta's site, you are correct and I will be able to enjoy status all of next year. Here's hoping for more upgrades.

Scott Keelan > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 17:52

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I am surprised the FAA has allowed this issue to go unattended for so long. I cannot stress enough how important "crew rest" is to the safety of flight. Fatigue is taken very seriously in military aviation.

Collin > Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! 12/17/2013 at 18:18

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Well that sucks.

ColdsnapBryan > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 18:27

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I'm all for this decision on keeping pilots in a better state of mind. We put our lives in their hands 100% every time we step on an airplane.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Reborn Pyrrhic 12/17/2013 at 18:31

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Yeah, it really is insane. And the s1 guys never get it out on time, I don't think my leave form has EVER been at the SD desk when I go to sign out. And I'm never told when it gets signed I either have to call s1 or hope for the best. Half the time I don't even check because everyone here operates on the no news is good news, so if something happened and it wasn't signed they charge me for it later so it still is usually good. But yeah with plane tickets, if it's an expensive one I usually ask to see my 1sg and let him know, hey, spending a bbunch of money here, we cool?

Grindintosecond > ncasolowork2 12/17/2013 at 18:43

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Reborn Pyrrhic > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 12/17/2013 at 18:47

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I hear you. My current 1SG is a dick. But hey! We have a change of responsibility formation Friday, so adios asshole! The new guy I know him since I was a SPC and he was an E6, should be better for a bit.

Grindintosecond > Seitz 12/17/2013 at 18:50

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EarlZ is right. Youre in good shape as there's reassignable crews out n about to solve problems. The afternoin flyers might not have that lixury of coverage.

Grindintosecond > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 12/17/2013 at 18:51

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Its FAR pt. 117 for reference. Theres a big debate over 121 cargo night ops and 135 guys and how they all fit in.

Death Blow > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 18:57

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I actually had a 7:45am flight delayed a few months ago because the crew got in so late the night before and needed their required time between flights. I was pretty surprised when at 5am I found out my flight was already delayed until 9:25am, but upon getting to the gate (on a day with no weather issues and the plane sitting there already), I was very confused and that was the explanation I was given.

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Reborn Pyrrhic 12/17/2013 at 18:59

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Not bad, should be pretty smooth with him then. Just had our cor like a month or so ago, the new one doesn't really seem too interested in being 1sg, not a bad guy, but he's an infantry e8 being the 1sg for the support company so is probably just bored

upsidedownfunnel > 195100003 12/17/2013 at 19:06

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No one is saying it's your fault. But seriously, it's not the airline's fault. An airline will usually bend over backwards to accommodate somebody if it's their fault. How can airlines be expected to buy everyone hotel rooms just because of bad weather? It's not reasonable.

Reborn Pyrrhic > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom 12/17/2013 at 19:07

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Does he go around yelling at random people? I am aviation and beyond PLDC I have zero experience with infantry, just misconception, I guess.

justagigilo85 > ncasolowork2 12/17/2013 at 19:16

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Yeah, but having more people on call means they'll have to pay them extra... so they'll have a reason to jack up the price of a ticket. :/

timgray > Grindintosecond 12/17/2013 at 19:17

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No problem, I just use the company credit card and buy a room or rent a carto take me the last 300 miles. all business travelers will not have a problem, the companies they work for will whine, but I don't care what the boss says, he can pay for a $250 room or $250 one way car rental.

These new rules will only really cause pain to the recreational traveling people, so I recommend taking an extra day off from work in case you have to sleep in the airport for the night and arrive home a day late. but be sure to complain loudly to the FAA and your senator every single time about the airline. The airlines can hire more crews and pilots, they certainly can afford it as they don't pay pilots squat to begin with.

solracer > Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! 12/17/2013 at 19:33

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Maybe, maybe not. The supply of pilots is still finite and the path to adding new ones is long. So I would expect over time that the hourly rate will rise, especially now that the majors will need extra crews sitting around waiting to fill in. But then I've always been an optimist that things will work out well in the end.

BigHeadEd > FlippyCake 12/17/2013 at 19:47

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There's a backup crew on board for long-haul flights, and most of the big twin-aisle planes have a rest area where the crew that isn't on duty can catch some z's. Airliners.net has a nice photo gallery of various versions for different planes.

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.s…

Inspector Poirot > quarterlifecrisis 12/17/2013 at 20:01

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You make a good point about how the need for safety in this case should be a necessity, but I have never once heard my uncle (he flies for Alaska Airlines) complain about being regulated out of sleep. The way he sees it, he has a job to do, one that requires him to be active 90 hours a month, that's a little over 11 working days, so he can work in his sleep on off days.

sfmikee > 195100003 12/17/2013 at 20:40

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I'd honestly say it's as much your fault as it is theirs, meaning it's not anyone's really.