Morgan's three-wheeled motorcar's headlights are too far apart

"DCCARGEEK" (dccargeek) 12/09/2013 at 12:46 • Filed to: None

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Morgan, maker of the radical three-wheeled motoring-car-thing, tells NHTSA that its headlights don’t comply with federal safety standards but not to worry; it’s safe and shouldn’t require a recall and that NHTSA should change the federal safety standard. Love, Morgan.

At issue is the spacing and placement of the main headlamps. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 108, Lamps, Reflective Devices, and Associated Equipment , Paragraph S10.17 Motorcycle headlighting systems states; “If the headlamps are horizontally disposed about the vertical centerline, the distance between the closest edges of their effective projected luminous lens areas shall not be greater than 8 in.”

The lamps on the Morgan are 29 inches, edge-to-edge.

Morgan says that from this point forward they will install proper DOT-marked headlights as required by NHTSA, but will retain the current headlamps as running lights.

The automaker (?) also asked in their instant petition of noncompliance if NHTSA could consider changing FMVSS 108.

NHTSA’s response:

“This request cannot be considered as part of the instant petition as filed under 49 CFR part 556. Morgan may consider petitioning the Agency for rulemaking. The appropriate type of petition to request a change in a rule is one filed under 49 CFR Part 552 Petitions for Rulemaking, Defect, and Non-Compliance.”

This basically says while we understand you’d like for us to take the original letter and use it as a request for rulemaking, a petition to amend FMVSS 108, we need you to resend the letter specifically asking for that citing a different Title, 49 CFR Part 552.

Morgan’s justification is sound: wider-positioned lights reflect the three-wheeled bike’s width which is important for safety.

Now Morgan has to wait to see if NHTSA grants their petition or if they’ll have to recall 139 vehicles to retroactively install new headlights.

Link: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 12:50

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NHTSA- Dude, weak.

philipilihp > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 12:53

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I may be dumb right now, but what does "horizontally disposed about the vertical centerline" mean, exactly?

Vee Ate Injun > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 12:55

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oh shit! no way they should change the headlamp placement. that will soil the visual character of the car! and, they definitely shouldn't recall to alter previously sold 3-Wheelers: if they have to change the placement moving forward then i'll have to buy a used 3-Wheeler (when all my monies are saved up) but if they're ALL like that... well... i might exile myself to solitude in Antarctica.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 12:56

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Yes, because there's a good reason for trikes to be limited in headlight width other than some slackass at the NHTSA thinking "damn, what should I write today?"

The only pretense of sense I can see them making here is "OMG, someone might mistake a trike for a car at night!" Which, what.

vdub_nut: scooter snob > philipilihp 12/09/2013 at 12:57

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"headlights that mirror each other around the middle of the front of the car"

Zuzax > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 12:57

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Morgan says that from this point forward they will install proper DOT-marked headlights as required by NHTSA, but will retain the current headlamps as running lights.

If I am reading between the lines correctly, a handy owner should be able to set things right in about 15 minutes with a couple of wrenches.

philipilihp > vdub_nut: scooter snob 12/09/2013 at 12:59

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Don't all headlights do that? I mean, from my understanding that just means they are symmetrically placed, right? That's maybe where my confusion comes from.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > philipilihp 12/09/2013 at 13:02

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"The phrase "at least two lights positioned symmetrically, not vertically aligned " in the language spoken by you mooing cow-people plebians wasn't obfuscated enough."

vdub_nut: scooter snob > philipilihp 12/09/2013 at 13:03

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I think this whole thing is because it's a motorcycle, technically. There's one motorcycle I've seen that has two headlights, one high beam and one low beam, that aren't symmetrical.

(google "asymmetrical motorcycle headlights" and you'll see tons)

CAR_IS_MI > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 13:05

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8" would mean that every car fails to meet the requirements...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > philipilihp 12/09/2013 at 13:07

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If they're car headlights, almost always. Sometimes bikes are stacked one over the other, or on a slant, or otherwise distributed.

Of course, going into great detail to try to specify such things (maximum width: WTF?!) is pointless .gov dumbfuckery.

TurboSloth > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 13:08

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Corollary: All Morgans painted in WWII era fighter plane colors must have a turret in the rear with functional machine gun.

philipilihp > vdub_nut: scooter snob 12/09/2013 at 13:08

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Okay now it makes sense, I took the regulations as related to a car, on which all headlights are most likely spaced more than 8 inches apart. As a motorcycle regulation it makes more sense.

Also, this is my favorite bike yet. I love the asymmetrical headlamps on the BMW.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > CAR_IS_MI 12/09/2013 at 13:09

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Probably on the grounds that a Morgan is a motorcycle/trike where its importation is concerned. I.e., some dumbfuck struck upon the idea that a motorcycle shouldn't be confusable for a car at night or a similar pile of idiocy.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 13:12

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Are you freaking kidding me?

All* cars have headlights disposed about the vertical centerline... because all* cars have horizontally symmetrical headlights.

(*- caveat for the obscure exception to that rule that someone will find and post as a response, but for generalizing purposes, pretty much all cars.)

And I can't think of a common production car that has the headlights only 8" inboard to inboard edge, or only 4" laterally from vertical centerline. Some big-fairing touring motorcycles might even push that regulation.

Most headlights are as close to the outboard edge as possible, if not wrapped around the outboard vertical edges of the vehicle, and front-facing marker lights, I thought, were supposed to be near the widest point of clearance.... hence MARKER lights, to give a visual cue to the size of the vehicle in the dark.

Government is why we can't have nice things.

Takuro Spirit > CAR_IS_MI 12/09/2013 at 13:15

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I think the 8" thing is for bikes, which is what this is classified as.

Similar to a Can AM Spyder:

DCCARGEEK > CAR_IS_MI 12/09/2013 at 13:22

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I added "S10.17 Motorcycle headlighting systems" to the post to clarify that FMVSS 108 covers headlights for many road-going vehicles and the particular quote was from the paragraph on motorcyle lighting.

DCCARGEEK > Zuzax 12/09/2013 at 13:23

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Ding ding ding :)

Fenderaddict2 > Takuro Spirit 12/09/2013 at 16:12

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The Can AM Spyder should have wider lights for safety too. Rules and common sense seldom go together.

Poundingsand > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 12/09/2013 at 16:13

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I should think it makes more sense to move them further out on the vehicle, so oncoming traffic doesn't think it has more space than it really does...seems like a good way to get one of your front wheels clipped off...

TheDoubleClutchBandit > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:14

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I don't understand why there aren't specific clauses that pertain to three-wheelers. They aren't bikes, mostly. They're usually a lot closer to cars (Morgan Three wheeler, Isetta, Robin, etc.). Stupid.

StevenG > Zuzax 12/09/2013 at 16:14

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Not if he intends to pass state inspection. Then he will need to spend another 15 minutes putting them back and another taking them off.

Or you could just grow up, admit this is a safety issue and leave them there.

StevenG > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/09/2013 at 16:15

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Why are you talking about cars?
This is a motorcycle.

Kristian > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:16

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How many people would actually use one of these at night anyway? Problem solved.

Speedmonkey > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:17

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But…but…but…it'll go from looking fabulouso to shit. Morgan and headlights do have history. Will the US government require them to put massive rubber bumpers and stick-on reflectors on it too?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Poundingsand 12/09/2013 at 16:18

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But... but if you did that, somebody might think it wasn't a motorcycle or something. Then they'd all be forgetting to look twice and save a life, and they'd kill you while lanesplitting (in something the width of a car), or move into your lane when you're too close to the shoulder (in something nearly the width of a car), or not see you when you're passing, because there's no way something having wider headlights to reflect a wider cross-section could possibly be visible enough.

Seriously, this rule seems to presuppose some as-yet-unfathomed epidemic of motorcycles with (somehow) deceptively wide headlights. What a scourge, right?

Bacon > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/09/2013 at 16:19

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I hear there is a nice government in Syria, right now. Maybe that would suit you better.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > StevenG 12/09/2013 at 16:20

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Because this thing has the front width of a small car, not the narrow aspect of a motorcycle.

Does the law also say that motorcycle tail lights can't be too widely set, like on Harley or Gold-wing trikes with two car rear tires, and one motorcycle front tire?

If it is classified as a motorcycle, then why not just a cyclops headlight at the top of the "grille", between the V of the engine? or a Motorcycle-style stacked headlight.

It should still have markers, preferably on the front fenders, though... and that might still be precluded by the above law.

The lights should still indicate clearances, so that drivers on tight surface streets don't try to clip a dark vehicle thinking it is narrower than it really is.

A car with centered headlights and front markers, not indicating the width would probably be just as illegal and kyboshed even faster. I am not sure how Prowler got away with that the way it was setup.

HiramJahoovafatJr > Takuro Spirit 12/09/2013 at 16:21

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... the exposed panel fasteners at the seat on the Can Am Spyder - never mind.

stoke > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/09/2013 at 16:22

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This vehicle is classified as a motorcycle, and as we've seen, motorcycles often have asymmetrical headlights.

BMW F800R be like, O_o

JPhi > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/09/2013 at 16:23

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But 3 wheels = motorcycle regulations. And I can't think of a production motorcycle that has 2 vertically symmetrical headlights that are further than 8" apart.

HiramJahoovafatJr > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:25

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Morgan can send NHTSA a shot of headlights whose spacing is spot-on...

Cé hé sin > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:25

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I presume there's nothing to stop a new owner from bringing his car with the lights the regulation distance apart back to the dealer, it now being used, and get them to put the lights back to where they should be?

StevenG > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/09/2013 at 16:27

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I have no idea why they did not design it that way. They are selling a motorcycle and as such should meet those regs.

Do people hit a lot of Can-Am Spyders at night?

Takuro Spirit > HiramJahoovafatJr 12/09/2013 at 16:29

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HiramJahoovafatJr > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:30

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You won't get the Morgan's headlights to the 8" boundary without blocking the cooling air to the heads. Or making it look like Mickey Mouse.

Morgan MAY be able to see if their 3-wheeler was sold anytime in the U.S. in years prior to '67 & push for a 'build continuation certification', or whatever the hell it's called that allows a manufacturers' production continuation.

pfftballer > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:30

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Screw it, they should just put a single giant spotlight (think Locomotive light) in the center then.

ph3w > vdub_nut: scooter snob 12/09/2013 at 16:31

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that bmw is one of the prettiest machines ever made.

HiramJahoovafatJr > Speedmonkey 12/09/2013 at 16:31

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Shhhhh!! Shut up, dude! Keep talkin' like this & it'll get Morgan in more trouble! ;)

4play > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:31

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God I hate the NHTSA, FMVSS, etc. All of these stupid laws because of MBUSA's lobby.

FACEMAN. The man with a face. > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:31

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Alright...guess I'll put the three wheeler headlights on the shelf with my ATE super blue brake fluid...

RalphieDC > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/09/2013 at 16:32

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The Morgan is a "motorcycle" not a car. My advice is to not argue about this or they will make it pass a crash test - then no more US Morgan 3 wheelers.

GrauGeist > CAR_IS_MI 12/09/2013 at 16:32

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Cars follow a completely different set of rules from Motorcycles, like the Morgan.

HiramJahoovafatJr > Takuro Spirit 12/09/2013 at 16:34

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Peace & Love in the Spirit of the Holidays!

GrauGeist > TheDoubleClutchBandit 12/09/2013 at 16:34

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They're motorcycles, otherwise, good luck passing crash and roof safety testing...

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:35

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If you run that air-cooled V-twin hot enough, the heads will incandesce. Problem solved.

Garland - Last Top Comment on Splinter > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:36

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These stupid laws need to update. Vehicles like the Morgan are more car than motorcycle; it doesn't make sense that there's not a middle ground to accomondate them.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > Zuzax 12/09/2013 at 16:37

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Actually, how would it look with 4-across like rally lights?

JohnnyWasASchoolBoy > philipilihp 12/09/2013 at 16:40

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It clearly means "When viewed head-on from either a transverse, parallel, or perpendicular angle of observation, the illuminating devices must remain in relation to each of the opposing sides' alignment so that there is no more than 1/5 of a yard of vertical displacement from center nor more than 3 rad offset in the vertical plane.

Jeez, what's so hard to understand? ;-)

Cé hé sin > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:41

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Actually Morgan would be well advised not to contest this.
"This isn't really a kind of three wheeled bike, it's a car and should have car type lights"
"It's a car you say? Where are the airbags?ABS? Is there a glow in the dark handle in the boot?"
"Actually we didn't mean that. It's really a bike".

matt.mara > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:42

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Is this the same Morgan three-wheeler Richard Hammond drove in the the episode where they did challenges with track cars (including driving from London to Dunsfold in the freezing rain)?

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > RalphieDC 12/09/2013 at 16:57

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If there starts to be an inquiry about whether Morgan three-wheelers are safe if someone gets the front left wheel clipped off by an on-coming car, it could have the same effect...

Making a vehicle that is probably at least 4 feet wide look like a vehicle than is less than two feet wide when it is otherwise dark, is not necessarily a great idea.

On highways, the centerline being obeyed is one thing... but on surface streets without street lights, and parked cars... it may not be so clear, and an on-coming driver may count on more clearance than there is, if the vehicle looks narrower than it is.

If someone gets hurt and raises cane over it, it could have the same effect from lawmakers who want to be seen as doing something in the name of nanny-state safety.

I don't see what the huge deal is about making an exemption to that rule for three-wheeled motorcycles, like the Morgan, and others like the T-Rex, and the CanAm Spyder, which also has running lights and reflectors on the front fenders.

T-Rex's headlights are in the side mirrors... more than 8" apart.

whoosh > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 16:58

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Looks like the Campagna T-REX is also a 'motorcycle' for deviant lawbreakers

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > StevenG 12/09/2013 at 16:59

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Can Am Spyders have amber reflectors and small marker lights on the front fenders, even though the main headlights are up and central, near the steering head.

lazydave42 > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/09/2013 at 17:03

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It's a rule relating to motorcycles. I presume they phrased the rule in such terms to distinguish such a layout from the 'vertically stacked' arrangement seen on the Suzuki GSXR among others. Not sure why the Morgan should be subject to motorcycle legislation though...

philipilihp > JohnnyWasASchoolBoy 12/09/2013 at 17:04

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NOW I get it!

RalphieDC > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/09/2013 at 17:08

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Now you've gone and called attention to the T-Rex, good job-they're next on the list now. But seriously, I agree with with you and as long as Morgan leaves the originals as they have said they would this won't be an issue, no thanks to the NHTSA. My point was to not complain that it is more like a car than a bike as those are standards that the Morgan just can't meet.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > lazydave42 12/09/2013 at 17:10

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I am not sure why motorcycles should be regulated to have restrictively narrow headlight arrangements by law. They'll gravitate toward that anyway, by aerodynamic design, not sure why it has to be a law. A true motorcycle has limited width anyway.

But a 3-wheeled vehicle classified as a motorcycle-type vehicle, as Can Am Spyder, T-Rex, Morgan 3-wheelers are, should be able to signify their additional width with lighting indicators, without penalty. They are as wide as they are, and disguising that only begs for night-operation problem potential.

But they fall under motorcycle rules, because they are classified as motorcycle type vehicles, so that they don't have to be federalized and crash-tested to passenger car standards, which no small, open, light weight vehicle like those could hope to ever pass against regs written for larger, fully-enclosed passenger vehicles with side intrusion beams, and dozens of airbags, and such.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > RalphieDC 12/09/2013 at 17:16

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I just don't get why the 8" rule needs to be a rule.

a single-track motorcycle will have narrow headlights by design.

A triple-track vehicle like a trike or reverse trike should be able to put lights damn near any place it wants to, if the lights perform up to task.

The arcane rule-making is getting ridiculous, and becomes bureaucratically counter-productive to the 'safety' that they say they want to promote.

And if they didn't regulate cars so darn much, maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal for these to make sure they aren't classified as such.

And if the government is reading this oppo forum... they would already know about vehicles like this before I mentioned them, anyway.

Schnell! > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 17:18

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First off - it's a motorcycle for import purposes...only way they can get around the vehicle safety requirements, which would otherwise make this a WILDLY unsafe car. Second, no way they'll ever move the headlights to the "proper" location. It would block airflow to the heads and they'd overheat.

Dr_Watson > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 17:19

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wait... we're overlooking the most important part of this story. You can use a Morgan on a bike license? That's gotta be an interesting road test when you hand the motorcycle licensing test person a pair of goggles and a white scarf then say hop in the passenger seat.

And then does this also mean you have to comply with helmet laws?

lazydave42 > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/09/2013 at 17:20

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I'm not disputing any of the above, just saying that's probably the reason they used that phrase. Classic case of the law lagging behind reality IMO...

RazoE > Speedmonkey 12/09/2013 at 17:28

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Mini Cooper headlights did it a world of favors.

missingpedal3 > Bacon 12/09/2013 at 18:06

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A bit of Straw Man Fallacy isn't it? It isn't hard to see that the Government makes rules and regulations to try to accomplish one thing but manages to create situations where those same rules and regs make no sense. You will run into these issues in any design industry.

RalphieDC > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/09/2013 at 18:06

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T-Rex comment = Joke, sorry thought that was obvious.

missingpedal3 > StevenG 12/09/2013 at 18:09

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Should we not question exceptions for a rule when the argument could make the product safer? I don't think they should blindly follow a regulation just for giggles. If the change kicks it out of the motorcycle classification then keep it with in the rules but no reason to not ask / petition.

Radcardude > philipilihp 12/09/2013 at 18:22

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Some dumbass NHTSA lawyer probably spent 2 weeks writing that sentence.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > RalphieDC 12/09/2013 at 18:27

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Some jokes are true enough to be funny. Others are true enough to be too serious to be funny.

Government over-reach is moving from the former ever toward the latter.

ranwhenparked > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 18:28

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Personally, I don't see why they need to go the faux-headlight route like Rolls-Royce, the 3 Wheeler would look fine with two closely spaced lights.

miller203 > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 12/09/2013 at 18:34

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Tarukai > Dr_Watson 12/09/2013 at 19:18

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You can get a moto license specifically for 3-wheel vehicles that doesn't allow you to ride 2-wheel ones legally, at least in NY.

Lothar > philipilihp 12/09/2013 at 19:19

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nvm

Maxaxle > TurboSloth 12/09/2013 at 19:40

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But wouldn't a psuedo-sidecar be needed?

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > HiramJahoovafatJr 12/09/2013 at 19:53

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But what about the high beams?

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 20:20

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Quad headlight Morgan?

I would drive that.

Haze > GrauGeist 12/09/2013 at 20:32

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Exactly, if the government gets into regulating three wheelers separately, it will mean the end of three wheelers. The only reason these things work or make manufacturing sense is because they are regulatorily motorcycles. Elio avoided this by getting all of its exceptions before producing any product.

BigBlock440 > StevenG 12/09/2013 at 20:56

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A safety issue with making the vehicle appear narrower than it is?

Remarkably-Average-Avalon > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 21:09

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I pay taxes for this shit? I'm actually paying the government to bail out GM and their thoroughly mediocre cars (save the Corvette) while simultaneously paying them to try and keep cool cars off the road? Screw that.

KidfromKentucky > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 21:11

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I don't like them scooting the headlights inward, but atleast they are leaving the old position as running lights. My reasoning, is that if any of you have ever road a trike at night time, the cars have no idea how wide it is because most trikes have one headlight. It's like a car with a headlight out, from a distance you can't tell which side of the car has a headlight. I applaud them for being legal and also kudos for the driving lights, but I just disagree with the 8" headlight rule but oh well.

seriouslywhyiskinjastillterrible > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 21:13

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Yep, I look at this and the dangerous thing is definitely the headlights.

FatherStorm > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 21:26

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As someone facing opposing traffic, I have this weird expectation that the spacing of bright headlights in the distance bear some relationship to the actual WIDTH of the approaching vehicle, and not just to distance from it's center-line. This seems like a really good rule to guarantee the meeting of a lot of Morgan tyres meeting with unsuspecting oncoming vehicles.

Angry Dorito > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 21:45

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I don't like this.

Angry Dorito > HiramJahoovafatJr 12/09/2013 at 21:50

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I think it would be more dangerous to have her perched atop the V-twin.

slowinseattle > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 12/09/2013 at 22:15

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My concern is driving at night. I always hated when a Saturn was coming the other way, as with its narrow headlights, I thought it was much farther away. I had one fairly close call passing in my previous car (much slower: '95 Pathfinder SE).

Either make the headlights so close that they cannot be distinguished from a distance, or far apart please.

AnxiousLogic is a contrarian. > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 22:57

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There really need to be separate regulations for three-wheeled bikes and cars...

alexlam24 > DCCARGEEK 12/09/2013 at 23:12

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This is why we can't have nice things. THANKS A LOT GOVERNMENT!

benn454 > stoke 12/10/2013 at 00:13

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Why is it looking at me like I just ran up to it naked and covered in pudding?

JayHova > TurboSloth 12/10/2013 at 00:26

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That's a tricky one, as they are rather heavy. BUT: the centrifugal forces of a turret rotating around the vertical axis might even improve the cornering.

Edit: in the spirit of international understanding it should also have a louder radio/PA-system to blast 'the ride of the Valkyries' while gunning through the morning traffic.

bwwooster > DCCARGEEK 12/10/2013 at 01:42

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America, this is why we can't have nice things.

Benur > StevenG 12/10/2013 at 02:12

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In what motorcycle you sit side by side?

Reborn Pyrrhic > DCCARGEEK 12/10/2013 at 05:28

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Much like on-size-fit-all gloves, the rule that is supposed to fit all "motorcycles" doesn't. I don't see the big deal in providing Morgan (and other three-wheeler "motorcycle" makers) with exemptions to such blanket rullings.

TheReno > HiramJahoovafatJr 12/10/2013 at 08:37

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Morgan MAY be able to see if their 3-wheeler was sold anytime in the U.S. in years prior to '67 & push for a 'build continuation certification', or whatever the hell it's called that allows a manufacturers' production continuation

The 3-wheeler they have was started in 2011.

N1GHT5 > DCCARGEEK 12/10/2013 at 09:17

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StevenG > missingpedal3 12/10/2013 at 09:29

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We? I don't build morgan's do you?
They should have done that before selling them.

Kaufmania: Mark Webber's Stunt Double > seriouslywhyiskinjastillterrible 12/10/2013 at 09:49

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Yeah, Leno is going to burn his elbow on that hot exhaust pipe!!! Who will do his monologue now?!!?!

Dest > DCCARGEEK 12/10/2013 at 10:17

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I disagree, it's bad enough when wide Wranglers have their lights so close together at night.

Buran > StevenG 12/10/2013 at 10:51

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If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Looks like a car to me.

StevenG > Buran 12/10/2013 at 11:48

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Which has nothing to do with the regs.

As a car this would be illegal to sell. It would fail to meet emissions, safety, and a whole host of other regs.

They should have checked the regs and gotten a waiver or rule change before importing them.

Buran > StevenG 12/10/2013 at 12:18

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That sound you heard was the point passing over your head.

FlipperB > DCCARGEEK 12/10/2013 at 12:41

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If I'm reading the regulation correctly, only the innermost portion of the headlights needs to be within 8" of one another.