How Dealerships Shoot Themselves in the Foot

"Ian Duer (320b)" (320b) 12/02/2013 at 21:18 • Filed to: Misadventures in Motoring

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There are some questionable practices by car dealers. I'm sure this is news to no one. In this case, however, I have to wonder. Who's at fault?

A few months back I discovered a local dealership that tends to carry a selection of relatively inexpensive daily-driver candidates for car-people. Unlike your average dealer lot, in which you'd be lucky if every tenth car had three pedals, this lot seemed to be composed of about half manuals. I initially took this to be a good sign.

I needed good signs: I was on a mission. My E36 325i had served faithfully as a daily driver for almost a decade, but it was getting tired. I needed a replacement. I'm not a fan of spending a lot on a daily just to rack up the miles, but the car still has to be reasonably fun.

Part of my goal was to change strategies. In the past leaned toward a sporting coupe or sedan for daily duties with a truck or van for utility purposes. I felt like it was time to move the slider. I figured a station wagon or 5-door hatch for daily duties and light utility, and then something much less reasonable for weekend jaunts and the occasional trip to work on nice days. Step one to this was finding a fun, cheap, manual hatch or wagon. This is where the aforementioned dealership comes into play.

I'd driven by it several times and noticed a "bargain" section off to one corner. There were always a few hatches and wagons that appeared to be in good condition with prices under $6,000. More often than not, these were of German or Swedish origin. They were the sorts of machines that seemed just the ticket for a daily driver. There was just one crucial detail kept me from stopping to take a peek. I was afraid that things in this section of the lot were packing slush-boxes.

One day, I spotted a bright red Golf 5-door, with a roof rack already fitted. It was wearing what looked to be very intact paint, and best of all was the large sign bearing "just 70,000 miles" and "$4500." I initially drove by.

Half a block later I found myself turning around and heading back to the lot. I walked up to the car to peer through the driver's side window to check for the most important detail. I prepared myself for disappointment. No need. A gear lever with a 5-speed pattern was waiting inside.

I immediately headed for the sales office. I already had visions of heading to the trails with my mountain bike secured on the roof. I wondered if the bike could be fastened securely enough for a bit of hooning on the way to and from the trails. I made my way to the desk and presented all the required documents. I was handed a key, and a little reminder card to try and keep the test drive under half an hour. Seems this dealership doesn't send a chaperon for the lower end offerings.

I'm not what you might call a "Volkswagen guy." I quickly discovered that while reverse appears to be in the same place as on BMWs, it's selected in a different way. The pedal placement left something to be desired as well, the gas was offset from the brake in a way that seemed to render heel-toeing unlikely. Not a big deal, just different from what I was used to.

The 2.0 was acceptable. It lacked the urgency that seems to build with the revs in more highly strung engines, but it made up for it with what felt to be a broad flat torque curve. As engines go, it wasn't particularly powerful but sufficient for the weight of the car. It was actually kind of nice as it encouraged higher entry speeds and conservation of momentum through turns. This aspect was what really let the chassis shine; I was certainly impressed by how planted the car felt through the twisty stuff. I was starting to see the appeal of the Golf to VW fan-boys.

The only bad spot was attempting to rev-match for downshifts. It was ponderous at best, and frustrating at worst. I had no idea if this was just a quirk of this engine or if something was wrong. At a stoplight on the way back to the dealer, I happened to have the window down. I noticed the telltale sound of a bad throwout bearing or some other drive-line malady. Perhaps this was the reason for the rev-matching difficulty. Nice. They let me test drive a car that clearly wasn't ready for sale.

I let them know of the issue as I handed the keys back over, and mostly forgot the whole thing for months. I was a bit wary of the dealership at this point, but I reasoned it could have been an honest mistake. Today I spotted a black A4 Avant at the same dealership. Three pedals, all-wheel-drive, 1.8t, and chock full of wagon-y goodness. Nice find. Decent price. Test drive time. Out the corner of my eye I notice another 5-door Golf of similar vintage/mileage/price to the last one I test drove. I decided to take that first to sate my curiosity in relation to the first one I'd driven.

Golf #2 was a better experience in terms of rev-matching, which confirmed what I'd suspected of the first one, something had been wrong with Golf #1. It felt just as planted, until I tried to carve a few corners. It felt VERY front-wheel drive, pushing much more than the previous Golf had, it was a different sort of letdown. What was the deal? When I got back to the lot, I took a look at the tires wondering if the fronts were low on air. They were a different brand than the rears, though both sets had similar tread depth. Worse still the fronts were unidirectional while the rears were omnidirectional. Clearly mismatched.

No big deal. I was really there for the A4 wagon. Swapping keys, I headed back out to the lot and gave the engine a moment to warm up so as to protect the turbo. Attempting to pull out was strange. The engine seemed ten times livelier than the VW's had. The revs spiked easily with a tap of the go-pedal. As I let the clutch up from the floor it didn't seem to engage. Further still nothing. Nearly off it entirely the engine stalled. Embarrassing. The engagement point seemed to be in the first inch of travel. Odd. Things only got worse from here. The brakes were vague and non-linear to the point where I could swear there was air in the lines. Lifting off the gas at any time rewarded me with a nice clunk from the middle or rear of the car. Drive-line lash or failing rear differential mount? I want to sample the handling so that the session isn't a total loss, but the iffy brakes and sketchy drive-line inspire zero confidence. Almost back at the lot, I realize that neither the oil nor water temp gauges are registering anything, but the heat from the vents indicates that the coolant at least is coming up to temp just fine. The final blow comes when remember Golf #2's mismatched tires. Upon inspection, the A4 has not two but three different brands wrapping its wheels. That can't be good for an AWD car.

It's worth mentioning that none of these cars were marked "as-is," and I would discover that the asking price was $2000 over the blue-book for an "excellent" example of the A4 wagon.

What. The. Hell.

I check with other locals. Surely, if this were par-for-the-course, the dealer would have a bad rap. Nothing. Not one unkind word. What? Whomever is attending the auctions seems to have their heart in the right place. The clerk at the front desk, in charge of the test drive forms, seems unaware of anything wrong. Could it be that the mechanic is cutting corners? That would not be good as the dealership is also one of the few "European specialty" garages in the area. I've ordered hard to find parts from them in the past; the turnaround time and customer service was great.

What does one do in this situation? Besides head for the hills. If the place is shady there's no helping it. But what if they got a new mechanic that had worked for a shady dealership before? What if the owner doesn't realize the type of person he hired? It could severely damage the business's reputation.

Tom McParland > Ian Duer (320b) 12/02/2013 at 21:23

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Nice post. I mostly write about the dealership game in the new/lightly pre-owned realm so I am always glad to read things like this on the other end.

Ian Duer (320b) > Tom McParland 12/02/2013 at 21:28

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The worst part is that this is not a clunker shop. They're also trying to move lightly used Boxters, vintage SL roadsters and the like. They just happen to have a corner of the lot more suited to college students and people looking for cheap daily drivers. Inspires zero confidence in the "good" merchandise when they can't manage a car around 100k miles that's not an overpriced basket-case.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Ian Duer (320b) 12/02/2013 at 21:28

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Tell them. Go up to the sales staff and ask to speak to a manager about the cars on the lot and say you have some concerns he might want to hear. Explain what cars you are looking for, and that he has had them (very important to let them know if they did or did not have the cars you want) but they've been in such a state of disrepair that you can't consider them. If he actually has his staff prep them, then he might say something to them. If he doesn't have them prepped and instead just does a quick clean before slapping a sticker on it, then you need to stop looking there.

Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif > Ian Duer (320b) 12/02/2013 at 21:31

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Whenever you look at a used car its tough to find one that is in great shape. Dealerships typically don't fully go over cars and iron out all the issues but most people wouldn't notice it anyway. I not arguing your point that it is wrong but its also crazy to think a used car won't have its issues. Its just good you have the knowledge to spot them.

Ian Duer (320b) > Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif 12/02/2013 at 21:36

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I expect some issues. Usually aesthetic ones like imperfect paint or some interior wear. The sorts of stuff that doesn't matter as long as the vehicle is mechanically sound. Golf #2, which felt unbalanced due to mismatched front and rear tires was the least bad. I just don't expect cars (like Golf#1 and the A4) that are obviously brewing up costly drive-line issues to somehow end up on the lot as if nothing is wrong. I expect something in the 5K+ range to be in better mechanical shape that some random craigslist find.

Ian Duer (320b) > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 12/02/2013 at 21:40

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Sound logic. If they didn't frequently get in cars that were worth at least checking out I probably would have never gone back after the first one.

Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif > Ian Duer (320b) 12/02/2013 at 21:41

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I agree, not sure how much the cars were, random tires is always a bad look. I just always expect to have to spend a few bucks after getting a car in order to make sure its in good shape.

Ian Duer (320b) > Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif 12/02/2013 at 21:45

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They don't tend to deal with anything cheaper than 5k unless it's a local trade, I always assumed they had the "bargain section" of the lot to build loyalty from college students and the like. I know what you're saying though. I don't think I've ever bought a used car without immediately flushing/changing all fluids, and a set of new spark-plugs at minimum.

Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif > Ian Duer (320b) 12/02/2013 at 21:53

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Where I live its nice to have an old beater for those -30C days, so a sub 5K car is great. I always at least do what you mentioned and get some decent tires.

Stiiles > Ian Duer (320b) 12/03/2013 at 01:42

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You're a knowledgeable, detail-oriented car enthusiast looking at older european cars that are going for small money at a used car lot.

That is a combination destined for disappointment; let me tell you why:

That lot probably buys many of those cars at wholesale auction, where they don't get to drive them before purchase and thus miss driveability issues. Those cars are wholesaled out for sale by that auction by franchise dealers, who send them there for a reason, rather than sell them themselves for a greater retail profit than blowing them out at auction. Sure, the odd cherry Saab might be sent there by a Chevy dealer in Podunk because no Chevy customer in Podunk ever buys a Saab, no matter how cheap, but most of those cars are at auction because they have too many problems/bad title history/poorly kept or are too risky for the franchise dealer to sell retail.

Parts for those european cars are expensive. When you're looking at a car priced at $4500 there isn't a lot of margin in that car after you pay for the car, the auction fees, transportation to your car lot and cosmetic reconditioning/detailing. If those tires had good tread on them and the sidewalls aren't rotted they're not getting replaced before the sale, since the lot will rarely recoup that money in the sale price and few people except car nerds like you and me will ever notice anyway. If you like the car and want to buy it, negotiate a new set of decent tires into the deal or get enough taken off the price to pay for replacements. That's how used car dealers work; money spent on reconditioning and repair is gone for sure while getting someone to pay more for a car with those repairs is far from a sure thing. Multiply that by every car on the lot and you have the difference between a business that fails and one that turns a profit and stays in business.

Better still, go look at cars for sale on your local BMW, Saab or VW enthusiast Yahoo or facebook group. A good example may cost you more upfront but you can find one owner cars with maintenance records, matching tires and low miles if you're patient. If you can't do that, buy a CPO car from a that franchise's new car dealer.

signed,

a past service manager for three major market dealerships in CA and NYC and a former independent shop owner

Ian Duer (320b) > Stiiles 12/03/2013 at 02:11

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What you say makes sense. Unfortunately the dealership in question is also one of the only local Euro garages in a sleepy college town. I've ordered parts through them several times, even knowing there was some markup, but rather keeping that overhead going to a local business rather than some online retailer. They seemed like straight shooters in that context, I'd rather hoped they were above selling basket-cases. Almost like they want them to break so they can charge to fix the problems they ignored before the sale. Business is business I suppose.

Always bought from private parties before, probably will continue to do so, considering cars from the era I like are getting less and less plentiful and what's left seem to be either basket-cases or well cared for examples that go for a little more than expected.

Philip Anthony > Ian Duer (320b) 12/03/2013 at 11:13

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LOL.

What does one do in this situation?

They simply say fuck it, and dont offer cars like that. This is why my Honda dealerships carries 180-220 new/pre owned Honda models at any given time, you can count on 1 hand the amount of 5/6 speed manual equipped models. It is sad but that is how car sales has shifted.

You can be that guy selling the cool enthusiast cars- but how many credible, legitimate people are going to call you on that 06 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo that can afford it- or that super clean 350z that was thrashed for a decade before being tossed in on trade. Gotta pay to play!

Ian Duer (320b) > Philip Anthony 12/03/2013 at 14:03

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Yeah in the past I've run across maybe two or three used lots that attempted to carry a decent enthusiast selection, they all seem to have given up on that idea and gone the grocery getter direction. Volume volume volume over quality.

Stiiles > Ian Duer (320b) 12/03/2013 at 23:52

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Thanks. I don't know this shop so this is more of a general observation, but I doubt that an established business would make a habit of knowingly selling cars that had serious issues. Our definition of serious may differ, though.

It's almost always worth the extra money to get a well kept example from an adult enthusiast who has owned the car for years and knows the value of keeping after the maintenance and using quality parts for repairs. Besides, I'd rather drive it than fix it any day of the week.

Ian Duer (320b) > Stiiles 12/04/2013 at 05:10

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I'd rather drive it than fix it any day of the week.

I think this is why any hint of drive-line problems makes me want to run screaming. You're probably right on the sliding "definition of serious," I remember my Mazda days and the infamous "Mazda tick" that their piston engines of the era developed. It sounded annoying but the cars would easily run another 100k without any driving problems after it showed up.

Currently courting a Saab 5-door from a private seller. Well cared for by a Swedish specialty garage, owned by a "Saab guy," low miles, good aesthetics, great price. It's a stick but has 2.3 NA rather than the more ideal 2.0 turbo.

I was looking at alternatives mostly because it missed one of the "check-boxes" from what I considered to be the perfect example of that car. I could always drop in a 9000 Aero engine at some point if it were really a big deal. The more I look at the alternatives the better the Saab looks though.

Built BMW Tough > Ian Duer (320b) 12/04/2013 at 22:52

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All I can say is that you should consider yourself lucky that you didn't make an expensive mistake. Buying a high-mileage german car from a dealership is asking for trouble.

Ian Duer (320b) > Built BMW Tough 12/04/2013 at 23:06

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Probably. I just have a hard time considering 90-100k high mileage when I seem to be able to keep cars alive well into the 250k range. Suppose some people just don't take ANY care of their vehicles.

Omnislash79 > Ian Duer (320b) 12/04/2013 at 23:06

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The great thing about Japan is that they inspect the cars and clearly states what they find wrong with the car 80% of the time. In the US it is a guessing game if the car have any mechanical problems....

Ian Duer (320b) > Omnislash79 12/04/2013 at 23:08

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Sounds nice. I've got my scheming face on for when the AZ-1 hits 25 and becomes importable.

RW53104 > Ian Duer (320b) 12/04/2013 at 23:08

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Be dead honest and tell them why you chose not to buy not one but THREE cars from them and explain the various reasons. It might be hard to not sound pretentious, but if you're talking to the right person, hopefully they will understand. Worst case scenario, you get told to take a hike and piss him off. His loss, and he's probably using more than you, assuming you've shared this tale with those local to the dealer. This is good for you, however, because you now know this guy is a dick and have firm reasons to never buy a car from him, saving yourself in the future.

Best case scenario, he fixes the cars and informs you so you can buy one (if it's up to par) and have some confidence. Or perhaps he does change his staffing or his buying procedure. I would definitely say it's worth a shot. Especially because I'm impressed and slightly jealous at that stock, especially if it's as consistent and substantial as you say.

Other possibility: If he offers a warranty, perhaps it would be worth it in fixing whatever issues arise.

Ian Duer (320b) > RW53104 12/04/2013 at 23:12

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Yeah. It seems so weird that they have entry enthusiast spec cars in bad states of repair. The type of buyer that would be attracted to manual wagons and 5-door hatches isn't exactly cut from the same cloth as a used Camry buyer. I can't imagine anyone with sense would not expect that sort of customer to notice.

RW53104 > Ian Duer (320b) 12/04/2013 at 23:14

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Perhaps the tragic mistake is assuming people have "sense". Hmm...

Ian Duer (320b) > RW53104 12/04/2013 at 23:15

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Easy for me to tell others that, harder for me to accept it.

Omnislash79 > Ian Duer (320b) 12/04/2013 at 23:18

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This? I have not seen this car yet, I usually see daihatsu and the big 7 here. No az1 yet, crazy that they even have an awd kei car! come on they are only like 90hp split that to four wheels thats 5hp per wheel >_<.

I never liked buying used car in the US. Not knowing the history of the car is a big iffy, even here they have service history since not everyone can do the maintenance.

Ian Duer (320b) > Omnislash79 12/04/2013 at 23:19

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Wait what? the AZ-1 is MR not AWD.

Built BMW Tough > Ian Duer (320b) 12/04/2013 at 23:27

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They drive them like Hondas - oil changes optional.

Ian Duer (320b) > Built BMW Tough 12/04/2013 at 23:29

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oil changes optional

All those words make sense individually but are confusing arranged like that. English is my first language so that can't be the problem. Hmmm....

Built BMW Tough > Ian Duer (320b) 12/04/2013 at 23:30

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"oil changes are optional"

Ian Duer (320b) > Built BMW Tough 12/04/2013 at 23:33

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Still not understanding. Kidding. Sarcasm works badly without tone of voice. I'm the type that doesn't trust BMW's 12,000ish mile oil change interval and indicated by the little oil life meter in the dash. I let it go to about 5000 because I figure the 7.5 quarts of synthetic should last longer than the 4 of mineral used in most cars, but I'm just too paranoid to let it go till the car says to.

Omnislash79 > Ian Duer (320b) 12/04/2013 at 23:42

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Sorry I drift off, i was not implying it is awd =p

But there are kei cars here that are awd.

DRNC > Ian Duer (320b) 12/05/2013 at 02:39

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The oil lasts 12,000 miles, but you're suppose to change the filter every time two of those lights go out. Assuming we're talking about the E38/E39 dash.

DRNC > Ian Duer (320b) 12/05/2013 at 02:46

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I doubt the mismatch tires were your problem. Based on the price I'm assuming it was an MK4 Golf. Which have a major issue with their suspension and control arm bushings in their higher miles. I remember taking my sisters MK4 Jetta out once and hitting the corner as though it was my BMW. Needless to say I was scared. I replaced them with Poly bushings from ECS Tuning and BIG improvement.

Ian Duer (320b) > DRNC 12/05/2013 at 08:57

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E36 chassis had the same indicator.

Ian Duer (320b) > DRNC 12/05/2013 at 09:04

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Spot on they were MK4s, the difference in front end grip between the two was astonishing. It's well possible the culprit was something more serious than mismatched tires, that just seemed the most obvious reason the second under-steered so badly compared to the first while seeming to have similar grip at the rear. Good thing to know about the suspension on the MK4s though. Thanks.

greenagain > Stiiles 12/05/2013 at 09:56

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Yup. He should be a new car buyer, too picky to be buying cheap sleds.

Built BMW Tough > Ian Duer (320b) 12/05/2013 at 11:54

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I try to maintain a 7500 mile interval, but I've sometimes gone 10k. I'm confident that the Mobil 1 is doing ok. Chal0k it up to laziness.

DRNC > Ian Duer (320b) 12/06/2013 at 03:03

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Ahh. Well to be fair I still do my oil changes at 5k - 7.5k because I feel the same way, but they removed those lights in the E46 :(

Ian Duer (320b) > DRNC 12/06/2013 at 03:11

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I'm sure that was due to cut rate oil change places not being able to reset the indicator. As if an owner should ever trust a place that doesn't even have the reset tool to touch the car.