Great Cars You'd Never Own

"Lets Just Drive" (lets-just-drive) 11/29/2013 at 18:43 • Filed to: OPPOTHERAPY

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It's the Phaeton that sent me down this path of contemplation and a reply to a comment I made on the front page about that VW.

It's a great car, I said. I just wouldn't pick one for the price, I said.

Why?

Well, for one - just look...

But more then just looks, it's not a drivers car. Okay, look - it's a great drive... but it's just as great in the passenger seat, or even the rear seats, as it is in the pilots chair. That holds no appeal for me and, I said, it's pretty common among the Oppo crowd too. By and large, I suggested, we'd prefer something slightly worse for the money.

There's no debating it; the Phaeton is bloody amazing and when you consider the price to pick one up today, you'd have to be kind of insane to pass one up. But I think that insanity breeds character and that character is more important than quality.

Every day, I'd walk out to my Phaeton and feel content, feel satisfied... but I'd never feel excited. There's just no emotion attached to the Phaeton and, I'd argue, the same goes for a variety of other vehicles designed to be as technologically superior as the Phaeton.

Examples? Give me a million bucks and tell me I have to spend it on one car... there's absolutely no way I'm buying a Veyron. Give me a hundred and twenty grand and I'll walk straight away from the GT-R.

So, my question to my fellow Opponauts is this: Am I broken in the brain? Or maybe, you agree?

Can you think of other examples of excellent cars you'd just never own?

Victorious Secret > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 18:46

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The Veyron.

Yes, its everything the reviews have said and then some. Maybe even more.

But I'll save my hypothetical 700k and get an Aventador instead because that thing makes you grin like a fool before you even start it much less drive it much less drive it hard.

The Veyron is...the most expensive 'meh' for me on the market today.

Sn210 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 18:47

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I recently decided that I wanted a c3 corvette, but I think I've got too many other cars on my bucket list I'd get before I got one.

syaieya > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 18:48

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Any V12 Mercedes Benz

Sure, you can go out and buy yourself a S600 for under 20k and then for another 1000 Renntech can flash the computer and suddenly you're in the 600 horsepower club.

But just the amount of maintenance those things require on all levels is ridiculous. And really, those cars are never going to see any element to let that power sing if only because of how much they weigh.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 18:51

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One of these

It just seems to boring. It's not even much of a feat like the Veyron (don't like either). I would find so many better ways to spend my money that to purchase an R8. Reguardless, it is still considered a great car.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 18:54

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Every M car (I would say every BMW, but I've already voided that), pretty much any Mercedes, every VW and Audi, and the Porsche 911.

I'd much rather buy an equivalent from Alfa, Maserati, Lancia, Jaguar, Triumph or MG and build it up to a spec to rival the best German rival.

The Germans have dominated the luxury car market for decades, which makes them somewhat ubiquitous. Not my style.

Lets Just Drive > Victorious Secret 11/29/2013 at 18:54

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I know we disagree a lot (mostly on the FP because it's fun to do there) but we're in complete agreement here and I don't know that I've ever heard it put so aptly.

"The Veyron is the most expensive 'meh'... on the market."

Lets Just Drive > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 11/29/2013 at 18:55

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Again, I agree.

They look good... the first few times and then they become very boring, very understated and typically Audi. There's no question that the R8 is one of the better value for dollar "supercars" on the market but if I had the money, it's not what I'd buy.

It's a great car. It's just not very inspired.

Lets Just Drive > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/29/2013 at 18:57

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I don't agree 100%, but I'm right there with you.

But what if you were buying off the lot, brand new?

Lets Just Drive > syaieya 11/29/2013 at 18:58

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I disagree here.

Why? Because, to my mind, maintenance is character building. It says, "Yes, I break but I almost never brake!"

Character is important to me.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 18:58

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Life goal: Superformance GT40

?ct=1d7d6d439099

Still cheaper than R8

Lets Just Drive > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 11/29/2013 at 19:01

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Perfect.

A Veyron isn't trying to kill you. Neither is a Phaeton or a GT-R.

It's important, to my mind, that your car be able and willing to kill you at a moments notice.

Tom McParland > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:04

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Miata...I don't have to explain why it is an excellent car and I respect it very much. But I don't really care for convertibles, and for me the hardtop just is not quite right.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:06

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Another car on my list

It's good to know that your car can kill you.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:09

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That'd be trickier, but I don't really see the point in buying brand new. Compared to what you can get second hand it's incredibly expensive, and there are very few modern cars that I actually want.

I think I can narrow it down to a Jag XF or F-Type, the Maserati Ghibli or GranTurismo or the new Alfa Spider and Giulia (if they're good).

There is a lot that's really good out there, but the only reason I can see for buying new is to support the carmaker in question. As such it's just those 3 that I would want to buy from.

syaieya > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:14

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You say character building, I'd rather not sink a quarter of the cost of the car every few months. And that'd be even doing work on it myself.

They are 150k cars new and require that level of care.

I'm just not ready to do that. They're excellent cars, but I just couldn't justify it.

davedave1111 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:15

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I like the Veyron, personally. It's not the most exciting car in the world, but it's not designed to be. If the P1s and LaFerraris of this world are hypercars, it's more of a hyper-GT.

For me, it's certainly an engineering wonder. Your 'meh' makes me wonder if it's possible for it to be hyper-beige: it's the ultimate in car-as-transport-appliance.

I'd have to be ridiculously rich to have a Veyron - rich enough to have a McLaren F1 in the garage already - but if I found quarter of a billion quid down the back of the sofa tomorrow, I'd have one like a shot.

Milky > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:21

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I just couldn't, I know its a good car ….. but I just can't.

Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:21

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The Porsche 911 Turbo, from the 993 generation on. They are brilliant cars; definite triumphs of engineering. Yet, they just seem cold in comparison to most of the 911 line-up. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a GT3 or a Carrera S even, but I think at the price point where the 911 Turbo sits, there are better options, in my opinion.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:31

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It's the same reason I'd rather build a raw street car than buy a sports car. It's just in the metal, so to speak, and you can feel it.

Victorious Secret > syaieya 11/29/2013 at 19:37

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The costs are blown out of proportion and the internet loves to crawl back to "OMG GERMANS BREAK ALL ZE TIME".

Yes, its still a 150k car so you need to keep that in mind because guess what? This isn't a Geo Metro. The components used to make the car are INHERENTLY EXPENSIVE because everything was originally made to traditional German solid as a bank vault standards.

The people who bitch are the 18 year olds who get these cars and then cry foul when expensive things break because they assumed it would be as reliable as their older Civic.

Victorious Secret > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 11/29/2013 at 19:39

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

All day. All night.

The want is so strong for one of those.

GhostZ > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:41

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I wouldn't buy it or own it.

But god would I fantasize about a weekend affair with that car.

Lets Just Drive > Tom McParland 11/29/2013 at 19:49

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I'm a little surprised by this if only because an MX5 can be picked up dirt cheap and hooned to hell. Would that change your feelings?

Because I completely understand not spending serious money on a Miata.

Lets Just Drive > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 11/29/2013 at 19:50

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Mmm Mmm Good.

How you feel about the SRT Viper then?

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Victorious Secret 11/29/2013 at 19:50

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Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:52

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Same, but this is the one I had a model of as a kid. I don't mind burning my leg or doing calf raises with the clutch pedal.

Lets Just Drive > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/29/2013 at 19:53

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I'm right there with you. I cannot stomach the idea of paying depreciation rates. I mean, virtually no car out there has a warranty that compensates for the depreciation unless you're talking very boring city boxes.

Having said that, there are presently a few cars on the market that I'm looking at which I'd consider buying new; ATS, Chevy SS (I live in Canada, so...) etc. And having said that, I'd much sooner snap up a used CTS-V Sportwagon.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 19:57

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Agreed. Even if I wanted a modern car, I think I'd prefer to buy one that's only just second hand. Let someone else take the initial big hit of depreciation.

Saying that, if I was really rich I'd go out and buy a new F-Type straight away, and set some money aside for a couple of Alfa Spiders :)

Jayhawk Jake > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 11/29/2013 at 20:01

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As someone that hopes to own one someday here's a counterpoint: what you view as blandness I view as liveability. Of all the super cars out there, the R8 seems like the easiest to live with. It's a super car you really could drive everyday.

Lets Just Drive > davedave1111 11/29/2013 at 20:16

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Simon Cowel owns one. Jay Kay does not.

That, right there, says everything about the Veyron I need to hear.

Car ponce versus Car pro.

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 20:16

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...if you gave me a million to spend on one car, i'd get a V10 Phaeton for $40,000 (this includes shipping from Europe and diplomatic registration and stuff...) and i'd spend the remaning 960,000 maintaining it in pristine condition over a course of 50 years!

Lets Just Drive > Milky 11/29/2013 at 20:17

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I don't agree, as I'm a Mustang guy.

And I'm wondering if this was a subtle dig at me?

Heh and all that.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 20:17

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I don't get the whole "Its better because its worse" thing...I mean I do...but if I'm actually buying it, I don't want a worse car. I already have a worse car. I don't need another one. There's nothing wrong with a car that actually, you know, works and is good at what it does. Phaetons have plenty of character, from what I've heard. I wouldn't mind owning one. Sometimes just driving the damn thing, and having it be competent, is literally the best thing in the world.

Lets Just Drive > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise 11/29/2013 at 20:22

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I completely agree with you and I think that's where Porsche became a rich-man's brand and less of an enthusiast brand. Right around that time.

I think that's why guys like Magnus prefer older 911's and downright detest the rich boy toy 911's of now (particularly with the move to electronic steering!) while rich old farts like some of them what do that Gear Top show like their easy on the hemorrhoids 911's we've been seeing for a while now.

Milky > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 20:22

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oops, didn't know you where a mustang guy. But just for conversation sake, I goto a smaller college, and there are about 30-40 cars that are owned by enthusiasts. 5-10 of them are 2010+ Mustangs. I guess I'm just a bit of a hipster.

Lets Just Drive > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 11/29/2013 at 20:24

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Completely impractical? Check.

Lowest performance figure; MPG? Check.

Probably going to kill you when you're not looking? Check.

This ticks all my boxes and has for a while.

And yet, I'd still NSX myself in public.

davedave1111 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 20:24

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You say that like Jay Kay isn't also an almighty twat. And Chris Evans painted all his Ferraris white, and that's as car poncey as it comes. Sometimes it's not just about the car.

I think Opponauts can be a bit odd sometimes. Why is a Unimog cooler than a Veyron?

Lets Just Drive > GhostZ 11/29/2013 at 20:25

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There's hardly an Aston I would buy. But like you say, I'd love to sneak away with one for a weekend in the Catskills.

Actually, there are quite a lot of cars, many of which are ostensibly English, that I'd love to date and have a fling with but which I'd certainly not take to the altar.

Lets Just Drive > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 11/29/2013 at 20:27

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When I have the talk with my friends about the affordable, older supercar I'd buy the Viper and NSX inevitably end up tied for first place.

Completely different cars and I wouldn't kick either one out of bed for farting.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Milky 11/29/2013 at 20:27

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Did you drive Mustangs before they were cool?

Lets Just Drive > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/29/2013 at 20:29

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Actually, yeah.

The F-Type is the exception that proves the rule. I feel an extreme and unhealthy lust for that car and it's almost entirely down to the induction and exhaust notes.

Coupe or Convertible?

Lets Just Drive > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power 11/29/2013 at 20:32

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Everybody has their own tastes.

And while I don't know you, I'm going out on a limb here to say that I'm pretty sure you'd regret never spending any of that on something fun.

The Phaeton is great, like I said, and I'd never poo poo someone for wanting/buying one. It's just not the car I'd pick at the price. For the price, just off the top of my head, I'd end up in a CTS-V Sportwagon.

Milky > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 11/29/2013 at 20:34

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Seeing how I'm 24, nope. Also its worth noting Mustangs were always cool, record day 1 car sales and whatnot.

Lets Just Drive > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 11/29/2013 at 20:35

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Hey man, I get that. No need to defend any of that on Oppo. This ain't the FP. Hahaha!

If I had a worse car (read; fun) already and wanted something more sensible and stately as well, the Phaeton makes a great argument for itself. But I guess I'm more considering these cars (Phaeton, Veyron, GT-R, R8) as your only, or primary car. If, just as an example, I had around $40K to blow on a car I'd run straight to a CTS-V Sportwagon without a second glance at the Phaeton.

Of course, I bought a Mustang over a FR-S so you have to take everything I say with a grain of insanity.

(PS, I fucking love Mustangs)

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 20:38

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Lol that's plenty fair.

I totally get what you're saying, and I do like cars with character. And I totally get the whole "flaws give it character" thing, as I totally agree. However, having owned a car that fits this description (and has flaws out the asshole) for years now, I totally am ready for something that just has even the basics of creature comforts. I am never getting rid of my E28 (I hope)....but I am looking forward to finally owning something decent as soon as my employment situation changes.

Lets Just Drive > Milky 11/29/2013 at 20:39

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Milky, m'man, you're preaching to the choir.

I love Mustangs. You know what I don't love? The vast majority of Mustang owners. They're easily the worst part of the whole Mustang thang.

But I'm an anti-hipster and that works well for me.

DOWN WITH HIPSTERS!

:)

Lets Just Drive > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 11/29/2013 at 20:40

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No, because my name isn't Iacocca...

Lets Just Drive > Milky 11/29/2013 at 20:40

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The name outlived and out sold every one of its competitors. That's saying something.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Milky 11/29/2013 at 20:41

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I know, thats why I posted the concept, but even that is pretty cool.

Flat Six > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 20:43

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I wouldn't want to own a car that I was afraid to drive. I'd go crazy!!!

Lets Just Drive > davedave1111 11/29/2013 at 20:43

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Because cool people own Unimogs while rich people own Veyrons?

And I'm not saying that Jay Kay isn't a twat. He's a giant twat. If he were a porno, he'd be a fisting or insertion video.

Still, he's more of a true/real car guy than Cowell will ever be and I was just using that as an example.

Evans is also a giant twat. But he's not a car guy, let's remember. He's a Ferrari guy and that's a completely different thing... and is synonymous with twat anyway.

911e46z06 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 20:44

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I kind of agree about the Phaeton if you're not talking about the 12-cylinder. That ups the excitement quotient kind of a lot.

For me I would have to say Miata. Great car, checks all the right boxes. But it's just kind of boring. I tend to prefer the kind of performance that comes from lots of power over the kind that comes from light weight. And even if I was in the market for something like a Miata, I would take an e30 all day every day.

Also the V8 M3s. I don't really know why, but I feel like the straight 6 is just a better fit. If I'm buying a V8 sports car I want it to be violent and grumbly, not precise and over-engineered.

Forgetful > Milky 11/29/2013 at 20:49

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Guilty of going hipster on the Mustang. It's just too common. I didn't even drive one before I bought my FR-S... a car that many might suggest for this discussion.

Lets Just Drive > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 11/29/2013 at 20:49

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See, I've found a hybrid of both.

When I was younger I had a series of character driven cars. I say character driven because the guy driving was a real character. From my Poondai Sohotta to my '88 GT and a few in between I spent more time not driving them then I care to admit.

And then I owned an STi (if you're ever in the market, get a WRX!) and even a Yaris RS for a while. Now I'm rocking my S197 (Mustang) and loving it. So what I tried to find, as I grew up and could afford reliability and fun, was reliability and fun in the same car. Sure, it means spending a bit more but I've never been that guy lucky enough to have my DD and my Toy - I've always had to mash the two up. That's probably where my sense of "I want something worse than a Phaeton" comes from and why I'd end up in a Sportwagon for the same dollars.

But like I said, I totally agree. If I could just pour money into the pony and make it a monster while keeping a Phaeton as my DD, I'd go for that in a heartbeat. But if I only had the one...

... well, you know.

Lets Just Drive > Flat Six 11/29/2013 at 20:50

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Have you ever owned or driven a car that scared you?

It's pretty awesome!

davedave1111 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 20:51

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But neither the 'Mog nor the 'Ron are great ordinary cars, if you see what I mean. Both are special pieces of machinery, for two completely different jobs, and neither is trying to be a sportscar.

I'm willing to concede that my desire for a Veyron is more akin to my desire for a tunnel boring machine than my desire for a Stratos. But you can't try and tell me that a TBM isn't cool.

Jayhawk Jake > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 20:55

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When it's because of performance that's one thing, when you're scared because of its value that sucks

Lets Just Drive > 911e46z06 11/29/2013 at 20:56

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Talking W12, specifically, as that's what I was fortunate enough to drive. And while I was enamored with the car, none of that amorousness came from the drive.

It had a ton of power and torque, but it's spread across the power band and it's effortless. It never really threw me back into the seat, grabbed me by the prostate and said, "Hang on boyo. Yer gonna squeal like a pig."

As screwed up as it sounds, I prefer a car that will treat me like Jon Voight in Deliverance over something that feels like I'm watching Finding Nemo with my daughter or niece. The W12 absolutely never does that... maybe because it was Ferdinand was so specific about what the power was expected to do in that car, the way it was to be delivered. It's linear, effortless and feels like a Bentley before Bentley tried to get exciting.

Lets Just Drive > davedave1111 11/29/2013 at 21:04

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I'd rather have a tunnel boring machine than a Veyron. But yeah, I completely get what you're saying.

I think that image, or the perception of, is a key part of why I don't feel inspired by or passion for the Veyron. It's an amazing bit of kit, as they'd say, which unfortunately became the domain of the very, very rich. It inspired versions intended only to cost more, nothing else. And then when other manufacturers tried to take a whack at the Fastest Production Car title, Bugatti just had to fight back... it was as if being a super expensive, masterpiece of technology and exclusive to the very rich wasn't enough. Cars like the Hennessey Venom GT and the SSC Aero were insane, pure speed machines, and grabbing that title was pivotal to sales well after Bugatti was making bank just building Bugatti's... and still they had to come in and be like, "Fuck that shit. We're monopolizing that ass!"

Lets Just Drive > Forgetful 11/29/2013 at 21:08

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I was about to buy a BRZ.

And then I bought an 06 V6 Mustang.

Mind you, my pony was 1/3rd the price.

Lets Just Drive > Jayhawk Jake 11/29/2013 at 21:11

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Here's the thing; I didn't fall in love with my wife because shes livable. I fell in love with her because she stirred passion in my soul and in my loins, too.

An R8 doesn't stir passion in my pants. That's just me, and I'm not going to try and say you're wrong for wanting one. Not at all.

As long as you find that inspiring passion in the R8, that's all that matters. It's like my wife... I don't expect you to love her because I do and happen to think she's the best. She's mine, so fuck off and get your own.

:)

911e46z06 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 21:13

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Man, I drove one too and loved it. I liked that slow-building power. Like taking off in a plane or something.

I'm with you, don't get me wrong, I own a C6 Z06. If I could only have one car, I'd go for something a bit more violent too. But I don't mind being coddled a little bit by my big 'ol 12-cylinder daily driver when I have something else in the garage that I can sling around a little bit when the mood strikes me.

Lets Just Drive > Jayhawk Jake 11/29/2013 at 21:15

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Okay, I agree with you.

When May took Evans California for a drive, I was nervous for James. Like, I knew it was prerecorded and if he'd hurt the car we'd all have known well in advance of that episode airing but even then, when May gets behind the wheel, you can tell that the fun he's having is tempered by the knowledge that, while he could probably afford it, hurting that car would be ruinous on many, many levels.

I've never experienced that. Hopefully, one day I'll be either famous enough or friendly enough with a rich guy that I can get a sense of that terrible anguish but for now I'm satisfied with driving cars that scare me because they might kill me, not because the owner might.

Lets Just Drive > 911e46z06 11/29/2013 at 21:18

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Nope, totally with you.

As a 2nd car, paired with something that's pure toy, the Phaeton looks great. I just can't get behind the idea of a Phaeton as my only car. I keep saying it, and I will until I die of oxygen deprivation or my fingers bleed and fall off; for the price of a used Phaeton I would almost certainly end up in a CTS-V if it were my only car.

Also, since you bought a 'Vette... did it come with an AARP membership?

I tease.

911e46z06 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 21:30

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Ok, there ya go. I agree 100%. I'm daily driving an e46 M3 now and learning that having such a car as a daily driver can get you into trouble if you happen to be a 9 year old stuck in a grown-up body. So I'm thinking pretty seriously about a Phaeton purely for daily driving purposes.

Solid burn. No AARP membership, but there is a nice feature you can use in case of a heart attack. Just push the far-right pedal and 505 horsepower rip to the rear wheels in a shrieking tornado of smoke, noise, and speed. Gets you started right back up. Honestly, I don't understand why so many old people drive them. It's pretty fucking scary sometimes.

Flat Six > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 21:39

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"while he could probably afford it, hurting that car would be ruinous on many, many levels."

Yes exactly, except for the part where I can afford it :)

6shelBfan6 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 21:49

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I'm sure they are fun to drive, but I couldn't own a car that gets smoked to 60 by Granny in her "grounded to the ground" Camry. Not to mention, they are a dime a dozen nowadays. Way too common for me.

Jayhawk Jake > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 22:03

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I see your point.

I lust after lambos as much as the next guy, but to me it's about the whole package. I'm an engineer, so what gets me going is often different from others. The R8 is just such a complete package that I find it lustworthy.

The DC-3 is my favorite plane, many people would consider it boring. It's all about preference and perspective.

Lets Just Drive > 911e46z06 11/29/2013 at 22:06

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That last paragraph had me in stitches.

The Vette may be a pensioner sports car, but it's also a ready made defibrillator.

Here's the rub...

... I'm really considering an S550 Mustang but I won't cross that bridge until the car is out (Dec 5th!!!).

Lets Just Drive > Flat Six 11/29/2013 at 22:07

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So, how'd you feel rocking a Lotus Cortina?

911e46z06 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 22:11

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Do it man. Everyone needs something stupid and loud to buy tires for. Good for the soul.

Lets Just Drive > 6shelBfan6 11/29/2013 at 22:20

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I spent a good deal of time with the car (in Subaru and Scion guise) and I really, really liked it. Oddly, I didn't find it down on power - the almost 200 ponies were good enough and meant that you could pretty much drive it at 10/10ths every second of every day without having to invest in an underwear cleaning contract. What I did feel and still do is that it's way down on torque and the 150 or so ft lbs it has aren't low enough in the rev range to really be fun.

My Mustang has a few mods and while I've never dyno'd it, she's probably making around 275 (give or take 15) ft lbs (it's a 4.0) but because of the way that torque is delivered it feels like 300 or more in low 1st and 2nd. The Twins just never delivered that Fuck Yeah sense of Zero Fucks Given. And coming from previous Mustangs, I really grew to like that off the line punch. And I've kicked the panties off of a few FR-S's from the light already... all while sounding better (probably thanks to my exhaust and CAI).

Also, my Pony is bigger on the inside and works better now that we have a 3 week old daughter. (Speaking of which, keep an eye out for my Babying in an S197 article which will be posted... eventually)

All of that aside, though, the Twins take the cake from my Mustang in a number of other areas not the least of which is MPG. But, and I stand by this vehemently, anyone who buys a car for it's MPG is doing it wrong (opinion, of course).

There are moments when I see a BRZ or FR-S and lament for a moment that I didn't go that way but then I park my car at work and get compliments galore from the peanut gallery because it's a big, black Mustang and the Twins just don't stand up and declare themselves in the same way.

Buuuut...

... our Stereotypical Indian and others are proud and happy Twins owners and they make very valid observations when it comes to actually owning one - observations which I can only provide in the abstract since I've never lived with the car.

However, the twins are readily becoming Douche Bro cars just like the Stangs.

Lets Just Drive > Jayhawk Jake 11/29/2013 at 22:21

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I'll tell you what...

... you go buy your brand new, off the lot R8...

... I'll go buy a brand new off the lot C7 and spend the balance on it...

And then we can take turns!

Lets Just Drive > 911e46z06 11/29/2013 at 22:23

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The worst part?

As a Mustang enthusiast, I'm really excited for the turbo. I'd almost grab a turbo over the higher power N/A. Why? Because I miss the SVO.

Fucked up, no?

Forgetful > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 22:23

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I started out shopping for a 5.0L... V10 E60 M5. Phaeton made the shortlist too.

Flat Six > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 22:24

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Ha ha that would be awesome.

Lets Just Drive > Forgetful 11/29/2013 at 22:28

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Totally got me.

5.0? He must be talking Musta.... oh...

... he's not.

And then I had a sad.

But yeah, I'm not saying it's a bad car in any way. In fact, the Phaeton is a very, very good car. But I'd still take the 5.0...

Lets Just Drive > Flat Six 11/29/2013 at 22:29

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Richard, on Fast'n'Loud (Gas Monkey Garage) recently bought one on the show. And then he sold it.

Look, I know his gig is flipping cars...

... but THERE ARE SOME THINGS YOU JUST DON'T FLIP!

Fucking Texans.

YSI-what can brown do for you > 6shelBfan6 11/29/2013 at 22:37

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The car is more about modding it to your liking then being something amazing from the start(which it already is). Don't like the power, just get a turbo/supercharger kit, or get an exhaust/tune and get 30hp no problem.

To be fair, the 7.7 second 60 time is not true. It is closer to 6.5, or about every low priced sports car. Super a Focus ST is faster, but it isn't as light and it doesn't have the potential that this car does.

Flat Six > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 22:37

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Hey I'm a Texan! I wouldn't flip it, but I might trade somebody for a Super 7 after a year or two :)

YSI-what can brown do for you > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 22:37

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The douche bro thing is so true, it makes me sad. These cars are so amazing, and are being used as a show piece.

Lets Just Drive > Flat Six 11/29/2013 at 22:39

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First, sorry. Just bustin' balls. Didn't mean any offense.

Richard Rawlins is probably the kind of Texan that other Texans look at and go, "I'm not so sure about that guy..."

Anyway...

... a Super 7? Dayum. If you want a car to kill yourself in, you can't get much better than that! I so agree!

Lets Just Drive > YSI-what can brown do for you 11/29/2013 at 22:42

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You're rocking Borla exhaust, right? Axle backs?

The great thing about the Twins, I found, was that the back seats were pretty much useless for people with legs to begin with. Thus, when I put the seat all the way down and back to accommodate my 6'5 frame I thought, "Huh, it went from useless to totally useless. I can dig that!"

And then I realized that in my Mustang the rear seats go from possibly useful for small people and amputees to completely useless for air when I adjusted the seat. Still, it feels much bigger inside despite the fact that I can't fit four wheels in my trunk.

You got the slappy shift, amiright?

911e46z06 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 22:46

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Whatever floats your boat man. No substitute for huge amounts of N/A power in my book. Every turbo I've ever driven has felt laggy to me. Even the new factory twin turbo setups.

6shelBfan6 > YSI-what can brown do for you 11/29/2013 at 22:48

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I think if they are modded for performance, rather than by the stance crowd, I tend to like them much better. Around here, they all seem to be riding on the bumpstops, holding up traffic while trying to get into the LA Fitness parking lot. I guess I need to drive one aggressively before I judge.

On paper, if this car came stock with say 100-150 more NA horses and some good rubber, it would be perfect.

6shelBfan6 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 22:51

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I'm a big Mustang fan, but the rear seats are atrocious. It's not so much the leg room that is bothersome, but the head room. A hobbit would feel cramped in there. It's funny, if you put a current gen. 'Stang next to an early 64-66 car, it will dwarf the older brother. But when it comes to back seats, the old car easily has twice as much room as the new car.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 22:56

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I have a full exhaust coming with moar powah!!! Should sound like a true Subaru!!!

The great thing about having useless rear seats is the face no one wants to bum a ride, it's great. And I personally enjoy the cozy interior.

And I got a manual, it is faster and more fun!

Jayhawk Jake > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 22:56

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I will admit the C7 makes a great case for itself. For the money new, I'd take a C7. In 15 years I'm buying an R8

Lets Just Drive > 911e46z06 11/29/2013 at 22:57

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Then you've never driven a 1988 Volvo 760 Turbo with the boost turned all the way up from Low Pressure to Meh Pressure.

Blew that fucking turbo.

I miss you.

911e46z06 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 23:00

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That's true. But I've driven the new Audis and Bimmers, which are supposed to be lag-free.

Flat Six > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 23:01

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He's from Dallas, so that explains it.

Lets Just Drive > 6shelBfan6 11/29/2013 at 23:01

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My 3 week old daughter seems cool with it. Mind you, she's pretty much cool with anything.

She'll go from crying to instant grin when the exhaust reverberates in the cabin.

And as terrible as the back seats are, and they are terrible, I absolutely adore the variety of looks I get when people see the wife and I pulling the stroller out of the trunk. They range from looks of How-The-Fuck to I'm-Jealous-As-Fuck-And-That's-My-Minivan.

Here's mine...

Lets Just Drive > YSI-what can brown do for you 11/29/2013 at 23:06

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One, I'm glad you got the stick. I couldn't remember, but there's someone here, a fellow Opponaut, who also got one of the twins but with the flappy paddles and then went on a big old post about how the automatic (and it IS an automatic) is better than the stick. I didn't agree... but I did so politely.

And yeah, that's the reason I love 2+2's... No one wants to sit back there, so you're like, "Fine, walk." That said, it'll probably either be my last 2+2 now that we have a daughter or it'll be paired with a more family friendly car...

... though, since the wife has agreed, it'll probably get turned into part of the down on a CTS-V Sportwagon in the next two years.

But the interior is also very cozy, just not as tight. I don't mean that as a criticism, because it's not. It's just that I prefer the slightly larger feel of the cabin on the Mustang... which is also a stick.

And I'd totally race you between the lights.

Lets Just Drive > Jayhawk Jake 11/29/2013 at 23:07

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I like that logic.

Lets Just Drive > 911e46z06 11/29/2013 at 23:08

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I was totally being sarcastic. Even with the boost turned way up on the stock unit, the lag was atrocious. But the thing would build up like the whine of a kid in a toy store who ain't gettin' no toys and then it'd fart, yes fart, the turbo.

Lets Just Drive > Flat Six 11/29/2013 at 23:09

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If there's one thing I've learned about Texans...

... it's that real Texans don't come from Dallas or Austin.

6shelBfan6 > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 23:27

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Haha I suppose jealousy more often. She's looking good! What mods have you done?

Here's the only picture I have of my pile which is still far from a beauty queen. Someday I'll squeeze a stroller in there and make a guy jealous! Please excuse the terrible photo.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Lets Just Drive 11/29/2013 at 23:45

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Might as well always be the answer after all. Why? It's already dangerous to drive bulkier cars with your windows down in Brazil, I imagine taking to the streets on a Miata just screams "mug me!" and I like not being mugged by armed bikers. Or killed. Rumor has it dying isn't very cool.

Lets Just Drive > 6shelBfan6 11/29/2013 at 23:46

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It's just rocking an axle back; Flowmaster 44.

I was almost all set to do the dual swap when the wife and I found out we were knocked up. I stopped shopping and now most of it is sitting at my friends (SN95 owner) waiting for next summer when I'll be willing to spend the last few hundred bucks on swapping to true dual. Custom X pipe already in hand. Just a matter of getting the cats, tuner and tune.

Under the hood we have a BBK CAI and TB. It's flashed for a premium-fuel tune, thanks to a friend.

Outside we have the quarter window louvers, tints, shorty antenna, and I've blacked out the faux gas cap, front pony and center caps.

And that's about it.

I had hopes of running a FI set-up, but with baby the cost of doing a turbo seems out of reach for now. Sure, I could supercharge it just like everyone does with their 4.0 but I wanted turbo - and if I went with a Maggy, for example, it'd cut costs a lot. But yeah, I'll be keeping it N/A for a good while now if I ever get around to FI.

Oh, and I'll be receiving and installing my sequential harness very soon.

It's sad to say, but since baby came along my only interest is in making it look even more crisp - in case I want to sell it in favor of something more four-doory. To that end, I'm still going to do springs (Eibach's and 1.5 down all around) and wheels (probably a set of AMR Forgestars from AM) and though I probably shouldn't admit it; rear glass louvers.

Once summer rolls around I plan on doing a wing delete; true billet grille replacement and decklid insert to delete the faux gas cap all together.

I think that pretty much covers the current look and feel and where I'm headed with it in the future.

As much as I'd like Santa to stick some horsepowers in my stocking, I'm hoping instead for bling... even if that is a very un-Oppo thing to do.

Lets Just Drive > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 11/29/2013 at 23:51

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I have no argument for your logic.

Because Brazil.