Terminator vs. C6 Z06

"jlmounce" (jlmounce) 11/25/2013 at 17:23 • Filed to: Mustang, Cobra, Terminator, Corvette, Z06, C6

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These are both former cars of mine. Recently, over on SVTPerformance, a thread came up from a member inquiring about the battle of which car you'd rather have. The once almighty Terminator, or the still kind of "king of the hill" the mighty C6 Zo6. I've owned both and so I have a bit of perspective. I figured I'd share with you my response to the thread.

Having owned both, I myself would be split on this. On paper, it should always be the Z06. The Z just does everything so much better than the Cobra.

-Handling = Z06
-Acceleration = Z06 (it takes a full bolt-on Cobra to even think about keeping up with a stock Z)
-Comfort and Ergonomics = Z06
-Economy = Z06

Aside from having the additional two extra seats, there's pretty much not a single category that the Terminator beats the Z06 on. With the exception of current pricing.

Looking at the numbers, why would you ever think about owning a Terminator over a Z06 assuming you could afford the Z06? The problem lies in the mystique of the Terminator.

At the end of the day, the Terminator is an economy performance coupe with a glorious drivetrain. It's chassis was dated even as it rolled off the assembly line and also shared it's underpinnings with cars you saw at your local car rental emporium. They squeak and rattle, have sloppy and slow handling and wallow about on a chassis with the rigidity of slightly cooked noodles. Don't even get me started on having to reach every time you want to shift to 3rd!

But, in all of that awfulness is something that can't be categorized or put down on paper. The Terminator has a soul and is brilliantly simple. For that it's a customizer and enthusiast's dream. It takes a beating, comes back for more and if it doesn't, well it's relatively cheap to fix.

The Terminator to me represents the best possible synergy between that rawness and feel of an old muscle car, but with the creature comforts and safety of modern day automobiles. It exists in a space and time before the nannies started taking over, but after we had figured out how to make world class cars.

I want, more than anything to be back in a Terminator for those reasons. The problem is finding a stock unmolested example at this point. That fact alone would be reason enough to buy a low mile, used Z06.

So, I'm decidedly, undecided and I like that.

offroadkarter > jlmounce 11/25/2013 at 17:24

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who are you on SVTP?

I think my SN should be obvious lol

jlmounce > offroadkarter 11/25/2013 at 17:26

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Torch10th. Card carrying members since 2004!

offroadkarter > jlmounce 11/25/2013 at 17:30

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ooooooooh okay, I know exactly who you are! You have the 69 firebird that you've been restoring for an eternity correct?

I'm hoping I can pick up a terminator in a couple of years to join the cool kids on SVTP. I keep bugging traktrbeam, who lives 2 minutes away in the same town as me, to sell me his 50,000 mile near bone stock 03 coupe but he just won't let go.

jlmounce > offroadkarter 11/25/2013 at 17:38

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Haha, eternity is an understatement! But yes, that's me.

The Terminator is a great car. Hopefully you can find a good one!

GhostZ > jlmounce 11/25/2013 at 17:40

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Cost for performance, the Mustang will out-run the Z06 when you begin to modify it. Also, I wouldn't consider the Terminator SVT an "economy coupe"... The Hyundai Tiburon is an example of an economy coupe. Not a (nowadays) $40,000+ car.

That's been my understanding. But either way, with the rate that the SN95-2 SVT Cobras are appreciating these days... it's probably a better financial decision to be in the Terminator than the Z06 too.

offroadkarter > jlmounce 11/25/2013 at 17:40

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I'm glad to see someone else from brownrecluse.net hangs out over here to, so far you're the only one that I know of. I posted an article I wrote on here in roadside one time and people thought I was a jalopnik editor.

Cherry_man1 > jlmounce 11/25/2013 at 17:41

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May not be a Terminator but its cousin! 2004 Mach 1

I have seen the car at shows and it is spotless.

Also here is a Terminator you might like

2003 Cobra SVT

JGrabowMSt > jlmounce 11/25/2013 at 17:47

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This past summer I was at a cruise night where 4 Terminators showed up. Yeah, 4. White, Red, Blue, and Black. Motorweek once described the Ford Lightning as "the fastest Mustang," and that's why I consider all Mustangs to be the fastest pickup that seats 5 (sort of). The cars were obnoxiously loud, the drivers were obnoxious, and for those reasons alone, I'm guessing it just fit them.

There's something for everyone to enjoy, simply this isn't something for me. All power to you.

I will say that when 3 of the Terminators left together, like a train of obnoxious that was running late, a group of state troopers promptly followed all of them. Mustangs just aren't for me...

jlmounce > GhostZ 11/25/2013 at 17:59

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While the performance increase per dollar on the Terminator at first is better than that of the Z06, it takes quite a lot for a modified Terminator to start to even come close to the Z in the acceleration department. If you're talking about anything having to do with corners, it would take a thick wallet to get the Terminator on the level. On that acceleration side, my 2003 Cobra made 460hp and 490 lb ft. of torque at the rear tires. More than that of a stock Z06 which usually puts down around 440 hp to the tires. Even with the hp and massive torque advantage, my Cobra would not have come close to touching the acceleration performance of my Stock Z. To reach that level would have required at a minimum, a ported blower, more boost and most importantly, much more traction.

You can get the Terminator to Z06 power levels pretty easily, but it's weight disadvantage and archaic chassis prohibit it from putting that power to the ground.

While the Cobra isn't an economy car, the purpose of that analogy is to highlight it's chassis and sub-frame deficiencies. The basic underpinnings are derived from the 1979 Ford Fairmont chassis. A chassis that was never designed to underpin an performance car, much less one that makes over 400 hp in stock trim. The 2003/2004 Cobra share the same chassis you would also get with a 99-04 base model v6 mustang. What differs is a few body panels and it's drivetrain components.

Remember, because of it's excellent chassis dynamics, super large rubber and low weight, the Z06 is a 10 second car in stock form for a highly skilled driver. A simple tune and headers and the LS7 starts getting pretty ridiculous in it's own right.

On paper and at the track, the Z06 is just a much better car in every category. Those traits also make it somewhat sterile of an experience. The point I was trying to make with my post.

Skif6996 > jlmounce 11/25/2013 at 18:09

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Why are they called Terminators?

jlmounce > Skif6996 11/25/2013 at 18:22

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That's a long story involving SVT testing along with a decision from John Coletti that ultimately changed the course of top tier Mustangs. The basic gist of it was that during testing for the 2002 Mustang Cobra (which never made it to market) John has having a hard time keeping up with the then SVT Focus. At a rest stop, he reportedly threw himself out of the car, slammed the door and exclaimed it was crap and made some statement to the engineers to "put a supercharger on it or something!"

The 2002 Mustang Cobra was scrapped and they went back to the drawing board. The idea was to "terminate" the competition. So the SVT skunkworks called the project the "Terminator." Although officially, it's a Cobra, the project name carried on in to the community where it took hold. Of note, there are also several places on the car itself where you'll find "Terminator" stamped in parts, or labeled on bar codes and such.

The goal was to create a bulletproof car that was reliable and could beat anything it went up against. While it was rated at 390 hp, independent testing put the power figures closer to 425 hp.

1337HPMustang > JGrabowMSt 11/25/2013 at 18:52

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Stop associating a certain car with a demographic. I was the same way, never would have considered a mustang until I took a spirited ride in one. That's when you realize "who cares?" They're fast, cheap, pretty and reliable. You're missing out if the only reason you won't buy a car is because of the people associated with them.

JGrabowMSt > 1337HPMustang 11/25/2013 at 19:00

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I'm not associating them with any demographic, that's exactly who was driving them. I've never liked Mustangs, I'm not a Ford guy...my dad had several, including a GT350 back in the day (1967, in Sea Green). I like Chevy more.

I can respect the power of a fast Mustang, I'm just not interested by them. I'm allowed that outlook in life.

It's like saying a person of X nationality committed a crime in the news. I'm not stereotyping, just stating what I observed that day. FWIW I have met many very great people with Mustangs (I have good friends with a low number, under #50, 427R). They love it, and that's why it's theirs.

candyfobreakfast > jlmounce 11/25/2013 at 20:47

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This story is fucking great, thank you for telling it.

jlmounce > candyfobreakfast 11/26/2013 at 10:46

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The long version along with a lot of tech knowledge about the car and how they got it past the bean counters can be found in this book.

http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Fist-Lead…

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Skif6996 > jlmounce 11/26/2013 at 20:05

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I have never been a Mustang fan, per se. That is quite interesting though. Eapecially the stamped parts. Thanks for the explanation!

I hoon, therefore I am > jlmounce 12/10/2013 at 15:05

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Wouldn't the Termi and the 04-06 GTO be a better discussion? I get that the goat is more of a GT car, but it seems that they would be a closer face-off, especially considering both have a back seat.