The 911-beating Cayman

"Jagvar" (Jagvar) 11/25/2013 at 16:54 • Filed to: None

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Apparently, Porsche tuning house TPC Racing builds a 485hp Cayman S Turbo. What? How did I not know about this before? Want to hoon!

oldirtybootz > Jagvar 11/25/2013 at 16:56

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I wish Porsche would let the Boxster/Cayman live up to its potential. The cars deserve it.

GhostZ > Jagvar 11/25/2013 at 16:57

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Someone school me.

How does the Cayman engine and transmission differ from the 911? I know they are different, but wikipedia doesn't exactly list bore/stroke, deck height, compression, etc. stats on the engines. Are they based on the same block? How much is shared? Does it share parts with other cars?

It's because I wonder why there aren't more high-powered Cayman's out there. The engines are only .4ls off, so what's the deal?

HammerheadFistpunch > GhostZ 11/25/2013 at 17:59

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Im sure there are some small mechanical differences, but mostly its electronic tuning.

ATX211 > Jagvar 11/25/2013 at 17:59

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That am awesome Cayman. Me want touch with peepee. Maybe just look and drive be more appropriate.

Cookie Monster...Out.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > GhostZ 11/25/2013 at 18:04

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I may be fuzzy on some of these details, but as I understand it:

M96 engines (996/986) are the same family of engines, with various displacements.

M97 engines (977/987, 991/981, although there was some middle-ground during the M96->M97 transition), are an updated version of that, with some issues fixed, and additions like direct fuel injection on some versions.

Basically the base boxster and cayman have the smallest variants of the engine families, sub-3 liter, IIRC ~2.7L. Boxster S, Boxster Spyder, Cayman S, and Cayman R have the upgraded 3.2, and lately 3.4 liter variants of their respective engines.

earlier 996 '911 Carrera' cars had M96 3.4 Liter engines, but then for a time went to 3.6 liter engines, while the higher end Boxsters, then Caymans had 3.2 Liter engines.

Part of the difference was also the state of tune.

With the advent of the 991 and 981, the newest generation, Porsche consolidated the variants of the M97 engine, and basically eliminated the 3.2L and 3.6L, and split the difference with a 3.4L that the top end Boxster S and Cayman S share with the base 991 Carrera.

But the Boxster S and Cayman S are de-tuned (~325hp) from the level that the base 991 Carrera has. (~340-345hp), otherwise the engine is basically the same.

The Carrera S steps up to the 3.8L engine, with an optional additional power-kit, to put it in the ~400hp neighborhood.

The 996 and 997 GT3, Turbo, and GT2 used the Metzger block, a water-cooled adaptation of earlier, stronger engine architecture, but have recently moved over to the M97 block.

The transaxles are similar, basically with the final drive ring-gear flipped to the other side to accommodate whether the gearbox is facing a mid-engine, or an aft-engine, and driving the wheels the correct direction. The 987/997 generations introduced the PDK automated dual-clutch 7-speed gearboxes, replacing the tiptronic automatic gearboxes. 981 still uses a 6-speed manual, where 991 has stepped up to a PDK-similar 7-speed manual. I believe base boosters and caymans might still use a basic 5-speed manual, but they may have been upped to 6 forward gears for 981 generation.

In the past, to truly get the most out of a Boxster or Cayman there were two main ways to go.

1: turbocharging or supercharging with an aftermarket kit, which requires an ECU re-tune.

2: engine swap from a similar generation Carrera, but it requires some conversion parts, as well as an expertly re-programmed ECU to cooperate both with the car, and the new engine's proper state of tune.

The stumbling block usually ends up being the cost of the conversions and electronics work. It is easy to spend FAR more on a conversion than the price difference between a booster/cayman to a corresponding 911.

Ruf, formerly Gemballa, Farnbacher-Loles, and other Porsche tuners do perform forced induction or larger displacement engine swaps (sometimes both), but usually it is by someone willing to throw money around, and really wants mid-engined, rather than just buying a factory built 911. It is not something that is truly budget-conscious.

Team6.1 > GhostZ 11/25/2013 at 18:06

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Look up stats of the Boxster, Cayman, and 911. The Cayman pretty much falls exactly in the middle for everything. Almost as if it was designed to be in the middle, not to maximize performance

GhostZ > Team6.1 11/25/2013 at 18:08

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That doesn't help me, I want to know why the performance is such from a mechanical sense, not from a marketing sense, and if that may be an explanation for the lack of Cayman tuning options.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > oldirtybootz 11/25/2013 at 18:08

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With 960/961 (I always forget which they are calling their upcoming Ferrari-fighter) in development, I highly doubt that, although I agree with you, that the Boxster/Cayman platforms do deserve it.

Even if 911 does go more the way of a GT... their upcoming Ferrari/Lambo/McLaren fighter is going to keep a cap on 981 and likely the next iteration after that.

GhostZ > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 11/25/2013 at 18:12

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So theoretically, you could throw in a 911 rotating assembly into a Cayman engine to achieve similar displacement from the 911?

And be more specific about the 'state of tune'. Did they share intakes, or do you just mean the valve timing?

From what you're telling me, I imagine most engine parts for the 911 will swap into a Cayman fairly easily, as would most aftermarket equipment.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > GhostZ 11/25/2013 at 18:45

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The deck height might be similar, but the bore diameter might not be.

It would probably be easier to exchange the whole long-block for one out of a similar-year 911.

There are some considerations, because of the geometry of the engine being ahead of the front axle, and pointing the other direction. Exhaust exits aft and, the intake throttle body faces aft on both engines, despite the fact that the front of the engine points the opposite direction. Cayman and Boxster package the engine differently due to the service port being inside the rear cargo compartment, on the bell-housing side of the engine, where the 911 has an engine lid that exposes the 'front' of the engine, opposite the bell-housing side of the block.

The block crosses over, although I think the larger block has to be lowered slightly in the Boxster/Cayman chassis compared to the smaller displacement versions, but almost everything attached to the block is different.

Intakes are similar, but not exactly the same, and are volumetrically matched to the intake volume and velocity needs of the engine's displacement.

Cam timing is just one aspect of engine tuning... ignition advance and dwell, fuel injection pulse timing and duration maps, fuel mixture rates, throttle response curves, and coolant temperature management all are likely unique for the Carrera's engine tune, compared to a Boxster S or Cayman S.

A 3.6 Liter swap into a 3.2 Liter Boxster S or Cayman S, before 991/981 came out, required some fairly sophisticated ECU tuning to manage a 3.6 liter with a Carrera-like, or higher state of tune, while accounting for the additional heat of the mid-engine packaging, with less heat escape. (no engine lid/spoiler grille to evacuate engine bay ambient heat, and to work with Boxster/Cayman's body control unit which expects a 3.2L programmed ECU identification, as well as the Boxster/Cayman's transponder keys and engine-immobilizer anti-theft system.

Porsche techs who can do that sort of work, and are familiar with which bits from a 911 can be transplanted, vs. which Boxster/Cayman bits need to stay in place, and make everything work properly... don't come cheap.

Mikeado > oldirtybootz 11/25/2013 at 18:55

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They have now in terms of chassis and handling. Even the electric steering is apparently better-calibrated in the Boxster/Cayman, simply because it's a more recent attempt. The one lacking area left is power, and that's easy to sort out yourself with the ~£15k you saved by buying a Cayman over a 911 in the first place.

The current Cayman S and base 911 Carrera both have 3.4L engines, so I'd be very surprised if an ECU remap and a sports exhaust didn't get the Cayman's 325HP up to the 911 Carrera's 350HP. Then you'd have the same engine in a lighter, better-balanced and more practical (albeit for fewer people) car!

oldirtybootz > Mikeado 11/25/2013 at 19:40

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It's more that I want to see Porsche give in and go all out with the Cayman/Boxster. We're missing out on all sorts of crazy performance variants from the factory because they want to protect the 911.

austinpropellerhead > oldirtybootz 11/25/2013 at 22:08

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IMO, the Cayman is unquestionably the best car Porsche sells. That's not to say the 911 doesn't outperform it, but the 911 will *never* handle as well with all that weight hanging out there at the rear of the car. It's taken Porsche nearly 50 years, but they've finally made the 911 behave *almost* like a car that was designed properly in the first place.

The Cayman, though *is* a proper mid-engine design in the first place, and handles much better at the hairy edge of tire grip, without the treacherous drama of the 911. (The Boxster is nice, but the stiffness of the Cayman makes it a much more serious sports car.)

I realize the Cayman is a bit of a product placement challenge for Porsche, but it really is better in every way that I can think of - and the fact that it's a fraction of the 911's price (making it actually somewhat reasonable) is just a huge bonus...

Crackerjacktype0 > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 11/26/2013 at 16:29

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Small correction. It's "Mezger" and not "Metzger". The engine is named after the engineer who designed the 1998 GT1 engine on which it is based on. Though since the stamping in the engine blocks in the 996s had 964 on them, the design most likely traces its lineage to at least the M64, if not earlier.

BTW I absolutely love the mezger engine and all the P-cars that it's stuffed into. It is just a stout, reliable engine that can handle a crapload of power pretty much in stock form.

Manuél Ferrari > austinpropellerhead 11/27/2013 at 15:54

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I would take the current Cayman S over the current base Carrera any day of the week.

But I don't agree that the handling topic is black and white. It's not as simple as mid-engine is better than rear engine. While the rear-engine placement has its downsides it also has some unique strengths.

I've got a chance to drive a few different Porsches and I think it just comes down to personal preference. Some people will test drive a Carrera S and love it, others will hate it. Some will prefer the Cayman over the Carrera and vice versa. I'm glad that Porsche has both. The only thing I don't like is how much their prices have gone up. That bugs me even more than how they restrict the Cayman's development to keep it from outperforming the 911. I was at the LA Auto show last night and they had a Cayman S there for $98K with options. That is just nutty. The car performs well enough for 99% of the people who buy it. The biggest problem is how much cash it sets you back...