HALP ! Talk me out of an ATS 2.0T

"doodon2whls" (doodon2whls) 11/21/2013 at 18:07 • Filed to: talk me out of it, Caddillac, ATS 2.0T, HALP

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GUISE ! I am trying to talk my self out of buying a 2014 Caddy ATS 2.0T in Performance Trim with 18" wheels. Talk me out of it and into something else !

So many puzzle pieces seem to fit:

NEW

<$50K (well appointed)

sedan (although I could be persuaded into a coupe or convertible)

entertaining (250HP+ & MTX & RWD & Good weight Distribution)

fuel efficient

easy/inexpensive to maintain...

I considered the BMW 3 ZPS+ZMT combo, but it's ... it's... It's a little gutless and there is the whole 'asshat BMW driver' stigma I would have to endure.

xxstich666xx > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:09

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The gearbox is really the only point of concern. Some people like it, others don't. It's all preference. I personally love the car and just wish I could take one home from work. Oh and if you do get one, I'd invest in some snow tires. It's useless in anything more than 5 inches.

GhostZ > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:12

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Depreciation. Is a car that is slightly worse at being a car but significantly more expensive to you a good idea, just because it smells new?

akant > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:12

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What about an Audi S4? I know that it's pushing the envelope a bit on price, but it's also a lot of car for that money. I think that most are running in the low $50k range. If you can find a deal or spring for a lightly used one, maybe think about that.

doodon2whls > xxstich666xx 11/21/2013 at 18:12

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Hmm, I had heard that... Maybe they have addressed some of the concerns by now ? The car has been in production for a year now...

http://wot.motortrend.com/exclusive-2013…

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:17

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Don't buy the ATS 2.0T. You know damn good and well there's a V coming soon with over 400 hp and a manual transmission and that's the one you want. If you keep saving, by the time it comes out you won't notice the higher price.

doodon2whls > GhostZ 11/21/2013 at 18:20

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Yep, the big 'D' does hurt a bit...

I bought my current car used from a mature adult (private sale) that didn't abuse it or molest it with turbo timers and boost controllers and such - not an easy feat for a 'tuner car'... I lucked out. I just clicked over 112,000 miles today on the way home and it still drives like new and pulls strong (knock wood). I put 93,000 of those miles on in the last 5 1/2 years.

Even though I like to do 99% of my own repair/maintenance work on my cars, I want a warranty. Maybe I should snoop the CarMax site/lots... hmmm.

StoneCold > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:20

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I loved the ATS when I took it around the track when it came out. It really is a fantastic car; I don't think you'd be disappointed if you bought one

I'm with Ghostz on the depreciation thing, but that could be said of ANY of the cars in this luxury class ( except for maybe the Lexus, but I'm not 100% sure).

:)

yossarian > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:22

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Used cars are at the highest prices they've been in years, you're gonna pay couple k less with a worse warranty. Makes no sense to buy used right now.

GhostZ > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:22

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It's fine and rational, but expect to pay $20,000 or more (especially at the rate you rack up miles) over the life of the car (depending on how long you own it) just for peace of mind and a warranty.

doodon2whls > akant 11/21/2013 at 18:23

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I would LOVE a used B7 S4 with the 4.2L V8, but it's thirsty (16/20 mpg ?) and I drive. A lot. DAT German V8 rumble, tho...

The B8 S4 with the 3.0 TFSI only gets 17/26 mpg... :-(

Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:24

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What engine is in the Caddy?

LDK? LNF or the LHU?

doodon2whls > Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT 11/21/2013 at 18:27

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LTG = 2.0T Ecotec

Tom McParland > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:28

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Have you driven it? My dad almost bought one, loved it on paper was all ready to order one then he drove it. "Didn't feel like a luxury car," he said he liked the 3 but it was damn near impossible to find a new 328 6mt RWD without a ton of expensive equipment he didn't want. FYI you can spec a 328 6MT M-sport with no options for only about 42k and can order it exactly like that. A pre-owned S4 is another option but its really going to come down to what feels right to you. As always if you need any help in this process you can find me here or Automatchconsulting @ gmail.com :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:29

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"Talk me out of an ATS 2.0T"

Not a chance :)

The only thing I'd suggest is not buying one brand new. You could pick up one that's got a couple of thousand miles on the clock and let someone else take the first slug of depreciation for you.

The only reason I'd see for buying a brand new car is if you wanted to support the automaker. That's why I'm considering buying the new Alfa Spider new if it's good, but not really much else.

Do you like Cadillac enough to support them? If so, buy new. If not, buy nearly-new.

Tom McParland > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:29

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Oh you do know the ATS performance does not have the Mag-ride and Brembos right? Stupid Caddy...those are what makes it "performance".

Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:31

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Concerns with that engien after time.

The HP fuel pump likes to leak gas into oil.

Keep up with oil changes or else you will blow a turbo seal.

They like to misfire.

They can be finicky little bastards/

That is just my experience with Direct Injection Ecotec.

I have a Gen 3 Euro engine in my car right now.

yossarian > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:32

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You don't want the 320i. Get a 328i M-Sport. Nicely loaded is right around $50k. Dyno runs show it to make 240 at the wheels, which equals around 270 crank like the ATS. Manual is a no cost option.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:33

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I love it. It's exactly what it's supposed to be. A more fun and hairy cheated version of Germans bread and butter, which these days takes themselves way too seriously. Buy one for those of us that can't yet, and Hoon away!

doodon2whls > Tom McParland 11/21/2013 at 18:33

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Haven't driven it yet - still brochure / magazine racing... :-)

I might try to drive a few candidates this wknd if ppl can identify other options.

I really feel like my desires exclude much of the options out there.

I will find that needle in a haystack...

doodon2whls > Tom McParland 11/21/2013 at 18:37

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What the F....(checks Caddy sales info)....

doodon2whls > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 11/21/2013 at 18:39

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I know, but the V will be thirsty, and I am trying to take it easy on my gas budget...

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:46

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You might be surprised. Besides, you are buying a luxury car and if you calculate the actual amount you pay per year for fuel the difference is small.

At $3.70 a gallon and assuming an average of 13k miles per year, at 25 MPG you would pay $1,924.00 while at 20 MPG average you would pay $2,405.00. $480 per year more in gas but look at all you get. Even with more expensive premium gas, say $3.90/gal you're only paying $2,535.00 a year.

doodon2whls > Tom McParland 11/21/2013 at 18:47

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That's ridonkulous...

OK, I can swallow the Premium trim price.... I was optioning up the Performance to nearly that level anyway... There is nothing (that I can see) that is offered on the Performance Trim that is not available on the Premium Trim...

It's probably worth it for the Magnetorheological Dampers, anyway...

doodon2whls > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 11/21/2013 at 18:49

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You haven't talked me out of the ATS yet... But you are making me reconsider more thirsty options again... :-)

Tom McParland > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:51

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Seriously drive a 328 6Mt I had my doubts it is still the benchmark. Screw the stigma you'll get over it after 2nd gear. If it were my 42 grand I'd have the Bimmer in my driveway.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 18:52

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I edited to include my first calculation was at 25 MPG.

Oh the ATS is a great car. But imagine how good it will be with a hopped up TT V6 in it :)

anothermiatafanboy > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 19:01

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Yes but the 3.0t is a much better engine. It gets 26 highway, which you scoff at, but that's over a 25% improvement without a discernible drop in power. The v6 is torquing than the v8 and with a little tuning could be made even more beastly. Dat v8 rumble is nice but those supercharged v6s sound pretty mean too. Test drive one!

Anon > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 19:05

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Fuck that buy a 135i (I think that's the turbo one. 350 HP in a car that looks like a shoe, what's not to love?

doodon2whls > Anon 11/21/2013 at 19:06

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The ergonomics. I'm 6'4".

doodon2whls > Tom McParland 11/21/2013 at 19:07

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It's on the list now...

I know magazine racing is bad for my health, but... http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/20…

Anon > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 19:08

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Stop being so damn tall!

Sincerely,

A 5'11" male.

Tom McParland > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 19:30

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What is your zip code and how far would you drive to get the right car? I'll run some options for you tomorrow to totally make things more complicated. :D

doodon2whls > Tom McParland 11/21/2013 at 19:34

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Ha... Don't burn up too much of your time... You have a biz to run... I'm near Philly and I drove 160 miles to buy my last car (used)...

If my previous purchase decisions are any indication, I am perfectly capable of overly complicating things without pulling in anyone else down with me. I'm an enginerd, so there are spreadsheets involved... ;-)

I do appreciate everyone's anecdotal input from Oppo, though... I needed some thought jarring input because I was getting too close to pulling the trigger on this.

Tom McParland > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 19:54

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Philly great! I live not far from AC and have relationships with several dealerships in the PA/NJ area. I'll work something up tomorrow, would you mind sending me an email that way I can communicate with you that way?

Automatchconsulting@gmail.com

BKRM3 > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 21:28

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You're going to spend 40+ grand on a sedan? ...and you're not looking at E90 M3s? New cars are nonsense. I'm also near Philly; let me know if you'd like a demonstration =D

Also, I checked out the ATS at the car show earlier this year. It really didn't do much for me... Haven't driven one though.

doodon2whls > BKRM3 11/21/2013 at 21:41

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I have much love for the E90 M3, but like the B7 S4 w/V8, it gets 14/20 mpg and I am _trying_ to get in the high 20's hwy....

BKRM3 > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 22:09

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My Cobb tuned 335 got 26.7mpg highway. True story. Why not find a nicely optioned CPO? I wouldn't own one without a warranty, but I think it definitely solves your concern about "gutlessness" and fits your budget. My only complaint about that car (other than the now-addressed reliability issues) was that it badly needed an LSD. Good problem to have! M-sport 335 with a 6MT. Mmmmmmm

My commute is about 8 miles round trip so I'm lucky to be able to more or less ignore the monster's lack of efficiency. Let's just say I don't get 14 city. Might be my driving =P

SonorousSpeedJoe > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 22:24

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If you're open to coupes, the ATS coupe is in development.

You could test drive a 2.0T sedan to decide if you want the ATS, spend the next few months saving up for one if the coupe is still on your radar, and be in a better position to buy the 2015 sedan/coupe/-V models or a used 2.0T sedan when the 2015 ATS becomes available.

doodon2whls > BKRM3 11/21/2013 at 22:26

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I found a nice MTX equipped E90 M3 Interlagos Blue CPO 80 miles from home. 28K miles on the ticker. $55K or so. I wonder if he'd take <$50....

Hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg.

You. Are. Not. Helping.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > doodon2whls 11/21/2013 at 23:24

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Get a Mazda 6 and save your money.

18 months from now when your halfway to paying the car off you'll be thankful.

Hindered23 > doodon2whls 11/22/2013 at 01:23

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don't buy a b7. I had one. I loved it. then maintenance. it sounded sexier than anything else I've ever been inside besides a twin turbo corvette. but still, maintenance = no.

BKRM3 > doodon2whls 11/22/2013 at 06:53

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That's a lot of money for that car unless its a 2011. I got my 09 in march with 32k miles (out of warranty based on time) for about 15k less from a private seller. The M is pretty bulletproof, I'm perfectly comfortable owning it out of warranty, which I realize is exactly opposite of my view on the 335.

Check out the cars for sale subforum on m3post.com - if you watch it for a while you'll find a seriously good deal. Just remember to do your homework first with carfax, auto check and a good pre purchase inspection. Maintenance on the M is not significantly higher than any other BMW so don't let that deter you.