Donovan McNabb is right, race car drivers are not athletes. They are something far more impressive..

"Phathead" (phathead) 11/18/2013 at 12:44 • Filed to: Motorsports, athletes, Donovan McNabb, NASCAR, Formula 1, racing

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We all have that moment. That one second behind the wheel of a vehicle where we thought, "This is it." Perhaps a corner was taken a little too fast, perhaps there was a sudden lack of grip but for that brief moment there was an acceptance that death was near.

There are two ways to respond to surviving this moment. Some embrace the fear, aching never to repeat it again. Others relish in it, skirting on the edge of control and the edge of death, yet coming out victorious. The latter… well those are motorsports fans.

It's a visceral feeling to control something that is seemingly uncontrollable, to push beyond a limit that seems immovable. Race car drivers live to find that limit which borders on lunacy regardless of whatever dangers it may pose. It is a feeling which is as infectious as it is powerful.

Which makes the comments by famed former NFL quarterback Donovan McNabb that much more interesting. To him, the physical attributes to throw a semi-spherical object far outweighs the ability to handle a 900 horsepower, self-possessed monster. To him, racecar drivers are not athletes, football players are, baseball players are and anyone else that has to run and jump are.

And he's right.

Race car drivers are not athletes. To be an athlete, according to most definitions, there is no component of fear… because athletes do not regularly face fear. But race car drivers do. The physical and mental qualities required to drive at speeds which would make normal men and women, athletes included, shudder in fear.

They may not admit it, they may not acknowledge it, but in some way that fear must be accounted for. Unlike in football or baseball or soccer, death is always a possibility in motorsports. Sean Edwards, Jason Leffer, Dale Earnhardt, Aryton Senna… these are men who gave their lives doing what they love. Not their mental capacity, not their livelihood, their physical lives. How many athletes, Mr. McNabb included, can lay claim to this?

Some may ask what the interest in NASCAR and Formula 1 is as it is merely grown men driving in circles. In reality those men are teetering on the very edge of that circle, a small movement away from gaining that crucial tenth of a second or an untimely death. Motorsports is perhaps as safe as it ever has been but the inherent danger remains, ever present. A fact that is lurking around every corner, hiding in brake dust and reappearing far too often.

As a motorsports fan I have watched my heroes race, I have watched them win and I have watched them die. As a traditional stick and ball sports fan, I have watched these aforementioned athletes play their sport, I have watched them win and I have watched them grow old and critical of that which is new and different.

And if that is what it means to be an athlete… well count me out.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 12:51

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One can enjoy driving a car without having a near-death experience.

I suggest you try an Auto-X event.

If you get close to dying there, you are doing something wrong.

Phathead > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/18/2013 at 12:53

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Very true, but the idea is to highlight what makes this intrinsically different than how most people define the term athlete.

highmodulus > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 12:53

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Just because you drive a race car, that does not make you an athlete. Its all the training you decide to do to make you the best driver you can be from a physical standpoint (see, e.g. Jenson Button) that makes you an athlete.

Phathead > highmodulus 11/18/2013 at 12:55

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One of the things that often isn't highlighted is that you don't have to be physically fit, per se, to drive a race car, but those that are the greatest at it are.

Conversely, everyone considers this guy to be an athlete...

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/18/2013 at 12:59

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At the same time, you don't need to be a well trained driver to do decent at an AutoX. ou don't even need top-tier equipment. You might only do 5 minutes of actual driving when you're alone on a cone course and never exceed 70mph. AutoX is not racing. It is motorsport, but not racing. AutoX is the motorsport equivalent of PGA level golf.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 13:00

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You have a valid point.

I would, however, argue that despite the extreme levels of "thrill seeking" racing drivers regularly participate in, they are still very much athletes.

They have to train their bodies and minds to tolerate elevated levels of exertion for extended periods of time, just like any other professional sport participant.

In reality, motorsports is another of the so-called "extreme sports" like skydiving, bungee-jumping, etc where the goal is to cheat death for an instant in order to attain the requisite levels of adrenaline from that action.

Racing drivers just do that for longer intervals in front of crowds.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 13:02

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And this guy:

Phathead > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/18/2013 at 13:03

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Oh I know for a fact they are athletes. The idea behind this is that they are more than the typical definition of athletes. You have to be physically fit to race a car at high speeds, hell look what happened to Gregor Huttu during his Road Atlanta test.

highmodulus > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 13:03

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Yep, but he's an extreme outlier in almost every aspect. Given the relatively slow pace and rigid position requirements, you can often have a few tubbier pitchers and DH's. But they are pretty rare now, as the benefits of high level fitness towards performance, career length and ultimately more $$$ are clear.

The nice thing about motorsport is that you don't have to remotely be an athlete to do it competitively (and it can be done with hand controls and other accommodations for those needing them). But at the highest professional levels, Soda Cookie enthusiasts are the exception rather than the rule.

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 13:05

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Professional athletes need to be athletes if they want to be competitive. They need to maintain high levels of both strength and cardio fitness, as well as have the exceptional reaction times and body awareness that other professional athletes do. It's just that for many athletes that is where the requirements stop, and for the driver, they begin.

Phathead > highmodulus 11/18/2013 at 13:05

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Thus the point. At lower levels of stick and ball sports anyone in any shape can play. But at professional levels you have to be fit to truly succeed.

Same is true in motorsports.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 13:06

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I think you must have edited the title, or I just failed at reading.

I did not see anywhere you had expressed that racing drivers were "better" than typical professional athletes.

I now see that clarification. My bad.

Phathead > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/18/2013 at 13:08

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I stated they required both physical and mental qualities beyond normal men and women, athletes included. Would that not define the term, extreme athlete?

highmodulus > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 13:08

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I disagree, at the lower levels of stick and ball sports if you are not in shape you get cut unless your are some form of genetic abnormality. In motor sport, unless you are talking F1, Nascar or Indy Car you can get away with it. That said, those that want to win hit the gym (and the salad bar).

Ex. President Mack41 > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 13:08

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You can be a motorsport fan without being a daredevil adrenaline junkie. There is plenty of fear in other sports. A 100 mph baseball getting hurled within inches of your unprotected body, a 260 lb NFL linebacker baring down on you at full speed, all of boxing.

Bringing up the fact there are more dead drivers than other athletes is narrow minded and a borderline offensive use of their deaths to prove a frivolous point. NFL players do not live full lives either, the effects are just less immediate. Plenty of drivers grow old, plenty are critical of what is new and different.

We all know racing drivers are athletes, the common misconception is based on the fact that raceday takes place in a seat. The preparation, the fact that a race requires footwork akin to a marathon, the mental toughness required, those are all valid points that also connect to "real athletes". The life or death aspect is a stupid argument easily shrugged off by "real athletes" as thrill seekers and is not reflective of many drivers and fans.

Phathead > Jeff-God-of-Biscuits 11/18/2013 at 13:09

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Brilliant synopsis

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/18/2013 at 13:09

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And most drivers are not paid solely in mountain dew...

joemcm > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 13:10

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As an ex-football player, there's A LOT of fear associated with that game. I got into football my sophomore year 5'8" and flabby, tipping the scales at a round 177lbs. The coaches decided to play me at line and I managed to grow another couple inches, lean out and put on some muscle. Our team was good, and I never saw the field, but another guy about the same size as me and even a little weaker was the starting guard for our team. My technique was precise, I was quick and fairly strong and in one-on-ones I owned that kid. But he was better than me. Sadly, I sucked donkey dicks at football simply because of fear. Every time I'd line up across from some 6'3" 230lb monster, I would think, "Joe, what the fuck are you doing out here? You really think you're gonna move this kid? There's no way boss." Then I'd get lit up and watch our quarterback run past me, chased by the kid I tried to block.

What I'm saying is there is that fear element in other sports too. Sure, in racing there might be a much higher risk of death, but do you think Earnhardt was thinking about dying when he crashed in 2001? Hell no, he was thinking about winning. Irrational competitiveness, physical ability and skill all factor into being an athlete. Overcoming that fear is simply a result of one's incredible desire to win. Professional drivers are athletes in my mind, as their profession requires all the attributes of an athlete.

gator8 > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 13:12

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I think it's unfair to suggest that death isn't a possibility in sports such as baseball and football. It's in no way close to the frequency of auto racing, but standing 90ft away from a man swinging hard at a 90mph baseball is not for the faint of heart. You can easily die with a line drive to the head. You can easily die from a bad neck tackle. Many players have been paralyzed and badly injured playing these sports, just because they're not as dangerous as racing doesn't mean they're devoid of fear.

Ex. President Mack41 > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 13:13

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Saracen > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 11/18/2013 at 13:39

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That's a photoshop job. Shaun Rogers is big, but not *that* big.

He is also very strong and very quick off the ball. He's definitely an athlete.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Saracen 11/18/2013 at 13:40

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Just making a joke, I also used the first overly large lineman I could find with the google image search term of "overweight nfl offensive lineman".

McLarry > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 15:10

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I would say you don't have to be an athlete to be a racecar driver...but you won't get very far if you're not. The drivers on the top tier of motorsport are athletes on a much higher level than the guys on the top tier of sports like football and baseball. This isn't a pissing contest of 'which sport is better', but each sport has a different ideal level of fitness. Football players need a lot of mass so they can forcibly move other players against their will and be harder to move against their own will, but also be light on their feet to be in the right place at the right time. Soccer players need to run a lot. Like seriously a lot. Baseball...is not a good example. Race drivers need to be able to sustain 4g in a corner while traveling 200mph with enough precision to put the car exactly where it should be on the order of millimeters with a heart rate at 80% max in a cockpit that's 120 degrees Fahrenheit lap after lap for 300km.

So...yeah I agree. Donovan McNabb had to throw a funny shaped ball once every 40 seconds while big men tried to tackle him. In his case he only needed to do this 3 times or so, then he got to sit down and have a gatorade and a massage before his next stint. If that's enough to qualify him as an athlete, then racecar drivers must be gods or something.

McLarry > Jeff-God-of-Biscuits 11/18/2013 at 15:12

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Could not possible have said it better. This needs to be carved on a stone tablet outside every racetrack or something.

feather-throttle-not-hair > joemcm 11/18/2013 at 15:56

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This is exactly what I was thinking. could not have said it better.

pdthedeuce > Phathead 11/18/2013 at 16:25

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"There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games."

TheOnelectronic > Phathead 11/19/2013 at 11:39

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Anyone who says race drivers aren't athletes should go a few laps in an F1 car. Your neck is not ready.

MFEJAL grey because who knows... > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 13:11

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Put Donovan McNabb as a passenger on that special Indycar with 2 seats and give him 100 laps at Indy. If he throws up, shits himself, or ask for help, don't stop.

Mr. Sinister > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 13:18

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Highly Skilled Professional and Athlete are not necessarily the same thing. You can have some sort of athletic conditioning and be a race car driver, or you can be a highly skilled professional in the world of sports. I think guys like motocross riders need to have exceptional conditioning, on par with any athlete. But professionals like NFL kickers really only need to be able to to one thing, and that doesn't necessarily mean they're athletic.

I See Car People > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 13:21

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I bet you were picked last in kickball.

shieldsdb > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 13:26

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Discussing who (as in profession) is more of an athlete is completely absurd.

Every sport requires a different skill set. It's all apples/oranges.

This topic comes up once a year or so. IMO, the whole thing is bullshit.

Except for hockey players! lol Hockey players can walk onto any field and be ok. Trying putting any other athlete in the rink and see what happens. (humor, calm the fuck down!)

JimSlade > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 13:31

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Think about this...

Donovan was talking about Jimmie Johnson...now all of you who hate NASCAR here...stick with me for a minute.

Jimmie Johnson...can run a half marathon under 2 hours...the one I saw him race he was around 1:47...he bikes like a beast...in fact I have seen him bike around 40 miles after qualifying...so I think he's a pretty good athlete...I have also seen him nearly die at Watkins Glen in a horrific accident.

Donovan...Jimmie and all good racers in any form of motorsport are athletes. There are some, Tony Stewart, who are not the peak of fitness, but to wheel around a car you need a lot of strength and concentration...two skills of athletes.

I don't know...this is just my $0.02...but Johnson is an athlete.

shieldsdb > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 11/21/2013 at 13:33

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Smith > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 13:47

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I did my first motorcycle track day over the summer and towards the end of the day I actually ended up going off track (at a really weird location) onto grass at about 90 heading right for one of the workers stations.

I managed to get just enough to the left of that and coasted to a stop without issue. It was at the very end of the session and I ended up returning to the pits going the wrong way down the main straight which was interesting.

Got back to the pits and were chatting with some of the guys I had been hanging out with all day and I was going to call it a day at that point, but they called our group back almost immediately to go out again...so I couldn't pass it up and went back out haha.

Can't wait to go again :D

oz4 > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 14:03

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Meh.... American football players have some sort of weird jingoism when they talk about other sports/atheletes. It's like when the BoSox showed up to Patriots practice and Tom Brady was mocking the players for being small. I'd love to see Tom Brady try to throw hundred pitches at over 80 MPH in under 2 and half hours then watch his arm fall off. I'd love to see Donovan McNabb be a passenger!, not a driver, in 200 MPH Stock car around Daytona for a few laps and see him come out of the car panting with HR over 180 BPM and not be able to hold his head up.

But hey fooseball!!! It's the only sport where big men put on spandex with enormous amount of body armor, run around for seconds at time to grope other full grown men into submission and take 3.5 hours to play a game that could be finished in under 15 minutes.

homebrewED > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 14:31

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Only thing I'd wanna chime in with... football players do face the fear of death on the field. I know nobody has died in an actual football game in recent memory, some have died practicing due to undetected physical ailments, and some have suffered paralysis during games. With how strong and fast the football players are these days, it's a miracle nobody has died on the football field in recent memory.

ThePinnacle > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 14:34

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This is precisely why professional road cycling is at a level of badassery that is above both motorsport and playing with balls. Don't get me wrong, I love motorsports. I do some time attack myself, but as far as cycling goes the participants must possess both an inhuman level of aerobic capacity, and endurance, but also a complete lack of fear. Fear that must be controlled in order to cope with descending mountains at 65 mph wearing no leathers, and a small open face helmet, or elbowing for position in a 45 mph field sprint.
The list of pro cyclists killed in professional competition absolutely dwarfs the list of F1 drivers killed, especially in the last 30 years. This doesn't even consider the number of serious injuries sustained in any given race
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_f…

Ben > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 14:49

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I was an exceptional football player in high school, rode freestyle bmx, was a high level collegiate track sprinter, and now a short track speed skater. I have been an athlete my whole life at some of the highest levels. None, NONE, of these "sports" reach the heights of mental concentration/endurance, physical awareness of not only my body, but the car's different functions, as well as the millions of variables that surround it and myself, the physical ability to perform under some of the highest pressure, to withstand G force, heal-toe, ect. I am always mentally and physically blown out the end of one of my Malibu Canyon sessions.

Running, jumping, throwing, ect., makes you athletic, NOT AN ATHLETE. An athlete performs their sport (a combination of skills, hand-eye coordination, planned movements i.e. strategy). I have met much better athletic specimens on the track, field, or, ice, but they have not been able to convert their athleticism into being an athlete. Their fine motor movements and mental capabilities to push limits, or understand the technique involved in the sport they are competing in were not up to snuff, making them useless in the field of play.

Athleticism is a broad term. Athlete is finite in my eyes. Race drivers are athletes. Maybe not the most athletic athletes but, highly trained and practiced athletes none the less.

By the way, I would love to see Donvan ride in a rally or F1 car without closing his eyes let alone drive one. I think Mr. Loeb might even be able to get him to pee his pants.

Mikey > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 14:51

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This subject has so much potential, but you missed the really important points and your fundamental claim that racing drivers face more fear than other athletes doesn't really hold water. Football players WILL get hit almost every play. Racing drivers MIGHT get hit once a race. Football players can die on the field due to things out of their control.

The other comments point out the missing points individually, but really what I want to say is this: football players and racing drivers, at the top levels, must go through similarly strenuous physical training to do what they do and stay competitive. They both have incredible reflexes and muscle memory, and they both have to do what they do with reckless abondon. Personally, I think that's what makes them both among the most athletic sports out there, the combination of power, precision, and quickness required.

Your article has potential because it asks "what is the definition of 'athlete'" but your answer of "someone without fear" is only partially correct, and then you unfairly discredit football players... honestly I think you could write a really incredible article on this subject if you opened up more and included some of the things the other commenters have said. Regardless, good food for thought.

bradledy > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 14:51

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This is a great topic. In college I had a sports-fanatic-buddy that didn't think race car drivers are athletes. We debated about it a bunch of times and we finally did some legit go karting in Denver- 50 mph+ indoor electric karts with a bunch of friends. After the first heat we got out of the karts and our arms were physically sore. My point had been made. I can't even fathom the mental toughness required to go along with the physical athleticism to pilot a race car for hours and pay SO much attention.

bradledy > shieldsdb 11/21/2013 at 14:56

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HAHAH that's fucking great I was reading your comment thinking in my head (totally sarcastically as well) well of course except for hockey. I play beer league ice hockey and LOVE my devils so that comment made my day

Revs2-12k2 > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 15:04

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The difference is Sport vs. Athletics. Each involves both physical aptitude and mental aptitude. The difference is the percentage of each. Does Tennis require more mental aptitude than Baseball? Football more than vs. Soccer? Auto Racing more than Pole Vaulting?

bpromersberger > TheOnelectronic 11/21/2013 at 15:22

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Exactly. G forces are one thing, lets not forget the incredible reaction times, hand/eye/foot coordination, focus, and endurance required to be competitive at any level of racing.

NicAndre > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 15:27

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I like to think my sense of a true "sport" is:

1) A physical activity that requires skill as well as physical ability

2) Composed of events that have the capacity to be won and lost

3) The ability to directly affect one's opponent.

Motorsport meets and exceeds all of these requirements, thus making it a sport. An athlete is one who participates in a sport. Therefore, race car drivers are athletes.

An interesting consequence of my definition is that competitive athletic activities are not sports. They may be extremely physically intensive, even moreso than "sports," but do not classify as "sports" in the most basic sense to me. Take competitive swimming, for example. I was on my swim team in high school, loved the competition, and boy do I understand just how physically demanding it is, but I never thought it was a sport. It seemed to me more of an athletic competition - it lacked the feature of being able to directly affect one's opponent. Soccer (which I participated in as well), on the other hand, does have this feature, making it a "sport."

But, swimmers are athletes, as are soccer players. All who play sports are athletes, but not all athletes play sports.

This is my intuition on what separates sports from competitive athletic activities - I may be wrong. What do you guys think makes a sport a sport?

Kylemaro > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 16:12

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funny enough all these "athletes" who say racecar driving isn't a sport (when football basketball baseball soccer and ect are all "games") have never put up and yet they don't shutup, lets put mcnabb in a cup car (because he isn't gonna fit in an Indy car or an f1 car) and see if he can turn laps. conversely i bet say Jimmie Johnson can throw a football. probably alot better then ole don don too.

boost_retard > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 16:47

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I'd like to see McNabb take on a full day schlepping a rally car through a bunch of special stages on gravel in the rain, then see if he holds the same opinion.

Or try to drive around in circles for 500 miles in a 3500 lb car at 180+ while dodging more cars then there are players on a football field at any given time.

Or just stick to playing football and STFU about things he doesn't have a clue about.

nikiaf27 > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 18:34

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The story for NASCAR is quite different, but to be a formula 1 driver you do have to be in excellent physical condition. If you want a good idea what kind of fitness regime they follow, check out Fernando Alonso's social media feeds. That guy is is better shape than 99% of all MLB players, and quite a large percentage of NFL players as well. Short of the quarterback position, football players are not nearly as athletic as the media makes them out to be.

McChiken116 - Patrick H. > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 18:58

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This is beautiful.

Brockles > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 20:26

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To drive a proper race car at competitive levels you absolutely do need to be physically fit if you want to do more than 10 laps or so.

mambochapchap > Jeff-God-of-Biscuits 11/21/2013 at 20:37

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This. Is what I've been trying to articulate for the longest.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 20:42

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You are a much better writer than that hack His Stigness

mambochapchap > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 21:00

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-Name another top sport that allows women and men to go head to head, mano a mano.

-Name another sport that within itself allows the participant to apply their skill across a broad range of disciplines if they so wish....rallying, karting, open-wheel, sports cars.

-Name a another sport in which a lapse of judgement may result in at best eye-wateringly expensive damage costs, and at worst the loss of life of NOT only the participant, but of the spectator.

-Name another sport in which the spectator places themselves in a potentially dangerous position, often trusting the driver with their own life.

You won't find a more passionate bunch than motor sport fans.

TZanfrino > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 21:28

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I am struggling to give a shit about what McNabb thinks about anything...
Also, I think that boxing (as well as MMA and other fighting sports) has a substantial component of fear...so there are other athletes that experience fear as part of their sport. I suppose that one could say that astronauts, fighter pilots, etc might be the same kind of athlete (fitness, fear, etc) as a driver...one could then argue that these would be less of a "sport", but winning would be a successfully completed mission, or being the first to make an accomplishment, etc. sorry, I am getting way off-point...back to the point: fuck off McNabb.

GooseTheThrottle > Ex. President Mack41 11/21/2013 at 22:25

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If you want to compare there are 12.2 Football related deaths each year in America.

bariki > JimSlade 11/21/2013 at 22:49

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The only reason NASCAR requires conditioning isn't because of the performance of the cars as with the case of F1 or Indy, it's because the races are so damn long. To be honest, even a 10-lap (~25 mile ) race in a showroom stock production car is pretty fatiguing, especially if your seat isn't a perfect match for you. Four hours would be exhausting. I don't get how they don't piss themselves, since there's no driver changes.

digitalgulby > Phathead 11/21/2013 at 22:49

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I love the NFL, but McNabb is a washed up unloved bad critic of everything. Maybe all of those harsh Philly fans were on to something.

bariki > joemcm 11/21/2013 at 22:56

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That is called "being a pussy." If you had trained hard enough, the size difference should not be an issue. And in competition, you're either thinking more about winning than the danger, or you are a pussy.

In the case of race car drivers/motorcycle racers and fighter pilots (who are basically the same kind of people), I think most of them either have a high enough level of confidence and competitiveness that they are able to push the fear out of their minds in order to win, or they are simply someone born with a weak, or no fear response. The latter being vastly fewer in number, since those kinds of people are rarely able to become either one of those things.

I race on the very low level, and while I tend to think about the danger before and after races and track days, I never really consider it while racing. Or at least it doesn't affect how I drive.

DocV2 > McLarry 11/22/2013 at 00:12

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"…Donovan McNabb had to throw a funny shaped ball once every 40 seconds while big men tried to tackle him."

Actually, I'd say it was even less often then that, typically there are as many, if not more hand-offs than passes.

"…In his case he only needed to do this 3 times or so, then he got to sit down and have a gatorade and a massage before his next stint. If that's enough to qualify him as an athlete, then racecar drivers must be gods or something."

Well put!

Tentacle, Dutchman, drives French > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 07:26

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athlete

alit/

noun

noun: athlete ; plural noun: athletes

1 .

a person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise.

Google - definition of 'athlete'

So, that settles it, then.

Lager is beer, not all beer is lager. Competitive race car drivers are athletes, not all athletes are race car drivers.

Sebastien Loeb, for instance, was a national championship competing gymnast before he became rally driver.

Kugelblitz > JimSlade 11/22/2013 at 08:44

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Superbike rider Miguel Duhamel used to 3000 situps if he didn't place in a race.

joemcm > bariki 11/22/2013 at 08:54

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That wasn't called for at all hoss, I've never seen anybody say shit like that on here. You clearly didn't get my point at all and just saw a chance to be an ass hole.

xx45xx > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 10:16

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+1 to this racecar drivers shouldnt even be lumped in with these mongoloids. they are operators of their impressive machines.

EdRacer71 > GooseTheThrottle 11/22/2013 at 10:25

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yes, and there are also exactly how many more football events in the US per year than racing events?

James Bigica > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 11:13

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Donovan McNabb is a pretentious, idiotic, self centered big mouth. Did he win big games? Not really, I'm not bashing him, I'm just saying he does not have the right to determine the position of another sport. Unprecedented comment on the behalf of a sports athlete.

48GOAT > McLarry 11/22/2013 at 12:37

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Just watching those camera feeds of the footwork used in a stock car at a road course made my legs hurt. I've pushed on a heavy-duty brake system pedal before, that's a pretty moderate leg press there. Drivers that still use the clutch when shifting, and use the throttle/brake combination press - that's an impressive bit of orchestrated physical function while trying to hit the marks on a track, steering with 1 hand while sustaining the deceleration and cornering forces.

Anyone who thinks that's not major physical exertion hasn't done it for any extended period of time. The fact that it's physical makes it athletic, which makes the competitive events of auto racing a (motor)sport. It's actually a pretty futile argument, with those who disagree trying to suggest they can dictate the exact line in which the amount of physical activity qualifies it as 'athletic'.

McLarry > 48GOAT 11/22/2013 at 12:45

4

Seriously....it's like lifting weights in a g-accelerator with a heater on full blast pedaling a bicycle and solving a rubik's cube or something at the same time.

pumpthebrakes > highmodulus 11/22/2013 at 13:02

0

I completely disagree with your view as well.

As a racecar driver, you are experiencing a constantly evolving environment that has to be dealt with, sometimes in nano-seconds, using hand eye coordination that also has to rely on the very extreme and precise fine motor skills. These are reactions that the common club racer might not experience but rather the elite operator that is on the very edge, yet calculated. I've had to interact with with a very broad spectrum of drivers over the past few decades and all of our interactions involved my assessment of these skills. Most don't have the athletic ability to sustain constant focus, very few do. This focus isn't always something that can be trained for.

UserNotFound > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:20

4

AuburnSpeedster > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:23

1

"There are only three sports, mountaineering, bullfighting, and motor racing. The rest are merely games " - Ernest Hemingway

UserNotFound > Jeff-God-of-Biscuits 11/22/2013 at 13:25

0

Can I copy that quote and share it with the world?

Auditt17 > bariki 11/22/2013 at 13:26

6

wow i thought we were better than this here

inProduction > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:26

3

there is no component of fear…

Hahaha come back and tell me that after you've had these guys chase you down on a field.

N@tedog > Jeff-God-of-Biscuits 11/22/2013 at 13:27

0

Start the presses!

klurejr > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:28

0

To be fair he was just talking about NASCAR Drivers and Drag Car Drivers, if you can be fat and still compete you are not an athlete...... of course the same could be said of some baseball players.....

ejp > pumpthebrakes 11/22/2013 at 13:30

0

Most club racers tend to be physically fit. Especially those who participate in endurance races. There are, of course, outliers. But I do agree with you - and I find that most people who make statements about racing drivers just sitting and driving lack an understanding of what it really means to drive a race car.

I'm a mediocre driver and a trackday enthusiast, and even I barely "get it"...but I know enough to know that it takes pretty intense focus and physical ability to race a car.

I think that part of the disconnect in opinion comes not only from the lack of understanding of what is really happening, but the fact that a machine comes into play. Could the same be said for motorcycle racers and motocross riders - that they are not athletes? Certainly the level of physical fitness required is even greater than that of a race car driver, but there is still an aspect of a machine involved.

SprungColossal > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:30

5

Ahem,

"There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games."

I think that pretty much sums it up.

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > bariki 11/22/2013 at 13:31

3

sad troll is not effective.

UserNotFound > pdthedeuce 11/22/2013 at 13:31

0

My new second-favorite quote.

Phathead > inProduction 11/22/2013 at 13:31

1

Oh I played football all through varsity level in high school and I'm well aware of the fear of kick off. The thing is even on kick off, you assume you'll be okay. You have a helmet, you have pads and you know that you'll survive whatever hit you may take.

Mean while drive a car deep into a corner at 190 mph and you can count the spots on the wall where drivers have died due to the smallest mistake. That is a completely different type of fear.

Big Block I-4 > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:31

0

Well I am a Philly sports fan and i know all too well that Donovan likes to stick his foot in his mouth at any possible moment. So no surprise to me. I like him for what he did for the Eagles, but I hope to never hear from him again.

SprungColossal > pdthedeuce 11/22/2013 at 13:32

0

Guess I should've read a bit further down the comments before posting this myself :D

austinhouser > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:32

0

I think its safe to say there is a good reason he is retired.

Blondude > joemcm 11/22/2013 at 13:33

0

I guess the biggest difference is the fear of being clobbered versus the fear of being killed.
I'd rather be clobbered.

UserNotFound > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:33

1

Okay how about this: put McNabb in Sebastien Loeb's WRC car in Finland. Then have Loeb play as a quarterback in an NFL game. See who does better, and see who crashes instantly.

900turbo > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:34

0

Racing. I mean, how hard could it be...

satalac > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:34

0

I think McNabb was wrong to say that race car drivers aren't athletes. On the flip side, I think it's down right ignorant to say that athletes don't face fear like race car drivers do. I'm sorry, but ANYONE playing a contact sport has a sense of fear. If they don't, they are lying or have been contacted one time too many. You can't really compare racing with football anyways, two completely different skill sets except for hand-eye coordination.

Bakkster, touring car driver > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:34

2

Has McNabb kissed Shaq's ass yet?

inProduction > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:34

0

Sorry, the picture didn't make it through.

I meant these guys.

You don't wear helmets, pads or jock straps when they're hitting you at full tilt.

Bakkster, touring car driver > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:34

0

Has McNabb kissed Shaq's ass yet?

Bats Aren't Bugs!!! > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:35

0

Johnson to Mcnabb: When I put myself in position to win a championship 4 straight seasons, I actually win them on occasion...

Mark Jacob > bariki 11/22/2013 at 13:35

2

Go home, troll.

Dusty Ventures > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:36

0

Dear Mr Donovan McNabb, please allow me to introduce you to Mr Patrick Richard

edw906 > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:37

0

This old "debate" again. What a crock. While I believe that today's drivers must be incredibly fit physically, the mental abilities of all successful drivers through time are what impress me most. Not just facing fear. Also, thinking constantly about how to be perfect and how to be faster. How to defeat your opponent. How to get the most out of the machine you have. Or overcome the weaknesses of the machine you have. How to handle changing conditions. Not just in the rain either - compensating for tire wear and other variables that change throughout a race. To me a HUGE component of what we call "sports" has to do with mental planning, focus, concentration, and execution. In addition to the simple aggression and desire to win. Racing of ALL kinds has those attributes in spades. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply ignorant, and we should feel sorry for them. Unfortunately - this is the classic example of a debate where people refuse to be convinced by the best of evidence and logical argumentation. Mostly pointless to try and change minds on this, so let's just be happy to know what we know, and let these fools names / fools faces be seen in public places.

900turbo > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:37

1

Racing. I mean, how hard can it be?

trevster344 > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:38

0

There are more fit drivers than unfit but there are quite a few that aren't physically fit and are great for those of you speaking on that matter. I'm not very fit and I can tell you it's a work out to drive a car the fastest it can go but just cause you aren't entirely built like an Ox doesn't mean you aren't an athlete when racing a car. On top of this do you really have fears that ultimately lead to the destruction of your environment and possibly you? Last I knew a runner didn't have to worry about hurting himself or others if he dive bombed someone in a corner.. Hell I didn't know a football player had to worry about dying everytime he played. Freak accidents happen but come on now. First time I did a 1 and a half hour enduro race in a dodge viper acr-x It felt like I had done the hardest workout in my entire life. Arms, chest, back, legs, neck, everything was sore.. Had to take a few medications to hold up through the next two hour+ races that weekend lol.

whatclutch? > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:39

0

Allan McNish would like to join the discussion.

User1312 > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:39

0

There's some phrase out there...

Opinions... Assholes... Something about everyone and having...

Neuro > Phathead 11/22/2013 at 13:39

0

You do in F1 up to two hours of 4 and 5 g turns takes it out of you - you dont get to sit down for half the game like you do in football.

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > joemcm 11/22/2013 at 13:40

3

It's funny, when I was in the Army, it was right about the time that they said we couldn't play "tackle" football anymore because it was causing too many profiles. So we switched, in name, to touch. Rough touch. Anyway, I (6' ~185) ended up on line against JR Sunday... he was about an inch shorter than me but must have had at least 45-50 pounds on me; not to mention his own Sterling Silver monogrammed snuff can lid. Great big barrel chested Texas boy. I'm not sure How often I actually stopped him, but I know I was pretty much the only one willing to slow him down, and it hurt.

Anyway, 4 years later, I'm out, and getting a suit tailored when the tailor steps back, looks and says " you know you have one shoulder thats about an inch lower than the other?"

Thanks JR.

Thor's Hammered > JimSlade 11/22/2013 at 13:42

2

As a Vikings' fan, I can attest that McNabb is barely an athlete anymore.