Method for Scientific Definition of Wagon

"Straight6PackRacing" (Straight6PackRacing) 11/15/2013 at 12:47 • Filed to: doug demuro

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As automakers retire their "wagon" body trim in favor of "SUV" trim, it poses a question to the enthusiast community: What is a wagon?

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! fell short of answering this question: he presented a selected data that led the reader to believe the outback was not a wagon. The data has an obvious selection bias as Doug picked the sales leading – yet generally 'uncool' - compact SUVs and compared them to the Subaru Outback. As a Subaru driver, I understand that these cars can be as ambiguous towards "wagon" and "SUV" as their drivers' gender identity so a more rigorous analysis is warranted.

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Background :

The car design community required s specific set of criteria to be met to be a wagon. They are:

1.Defined and unique A, B, C and D pillars – Second, rearward box comprised of C and D pillars separate from main passenger compartment delineated by A, B and C pillars.

2.Full height Cargo Volume – Has become ambiguous with styling cues (See: Cadillac. CTS-V Sport Wagon , 2013)

3.Two to three rows of seats – Third row optional, if only one row (driver/passenger) while other criteria met (aside from D pillar) then the vehicle is a shooting brake variety (See: BMW. M Coupe , 2001)

4.Top hinged lift gate – No exception granted under this criteria

SUVs have encroached on all four of these criteria so it becomes difficult for the consumer to differentiate between SUV and Wagon. Depending on the consumers self-image, many vehicles could conceivably fall into both categories. This is not 'Nam. There are rules Donnie.

Method :

Specifications of late model, widely accepted wagons and SUV shall be compared to develop scientific, numerical criteria that defines Wagon and SUV. This data will be presented to the peer reviewed community of Jalopnik for general acceptance. In addition, as the Volvo 240 wagon is widely regarded as the quintessential station wagon, it will be used as the control for this test .

Analysis :

WAGON: A summary of the physical specification of wagons for this analysis with the length and width expressed as a function of the height. Volvo 240 and V50 included for reference.

Therefore, normalizing for height, the average L:W:H ratio for wagons is 3.3 : 1.2 : 1.0. The L:W:H ratio for the Volvo 240 is 3.3 : 1.2 : 1.0 which validates the result.

SUV : A summary of the physical specification of SUV for this analysis with the length and width expressed as a function of the height. Vehicles used match prior discussions on matter (DeMuro. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Jalopnik, 2013)

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Therefore, normalizing for height, the average L:W:H ratio for SUV is 2.7 : 1.1 : 1.0. The previously discusses Subaru Outback is an outlier in the data because of length, a full 10" longer than its comparison set and provides a L:W:H ratio of 2.9 : 1.1 : 1.0.

Summary of Results :

SUV width to height ratio is contently 1.1:1 (1.149:1 for rounding) or less whereas wagons are constantly 1.2:1 (1.150:1 for rounding) or greater. In addition, SUV L:H ratio is 2.99:1 or less whereas the wagon L:H ratio is 3.0:1 or greater.

Conclusion :

We propose, for peer review by the Jalopnik community, the addition of the two below criteria to the four criteria accepted by the design community listed above.

5.Wagons must have a Width to Height ratio of 1.150:1 or greater

6.Wagons must have a Length to Height ratio of 3.01:1 or greater

Under these criteria, the USDM Subaru Outback does not qualify as a wagon.

Further research:

We welcome the addition of additional wagons and SUVs to the database to fully classify the entire ambiguous segment of SUV/CUV/wagon as well as further development of mathematical proof of wagons.

Notes:

Availability of manual transmissions do not impact the wagon/SUV criteria

Contrary to popular belief, wagons are available in colors other than earthen browns

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > Straight6PackRacing 11/15/2013 at 12:49

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Define this:

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > Straight6PackRacing 11/15/2013 at 12:50

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How does this fit?

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > Straight6PackRacing 11/15/2013 at 12:51

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Having grown up in the '80s I can keep this up all day

Straight6PackRacing > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 11/15/2013 at 12:53

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Get some dimensions and run the math! This is empirical and numerically based; not based on photos or opinions.

turbosuperencabulator > Straight6PackRacing 11/15/2013 at 13:04

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"4.Top hinged lift gate – No exception granted under this criteria"

Roadmaster Estate disagrees with you....

Straight6PackRacing > turbosuperencabulator 11/15/2013 at 13:15

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We will give it a pass becuase the glass lifts up.

Tom McParland > Straight6PackRacing 11/15/2013 at 13:19

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Excellent analysis!

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > Straight6PackRacing 11/15/2013 at 13:26

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I consider the Z3 Coupé to be a hatchback.

Sethersm > Straight6PackRacing 11/15/2013 at 13:28

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A well reasoned and interesting analysis.

In my mind, seating position plays a role. Is sitting in the vehicle closer to sitting on a couch (car/wagon) or closer to sitting in a dining/office chair (truck/suv). I think that is kind of tied to the length/height ratio though. Shorter vehicles would require more upright seating in order to retain quantity of seats.

So here's a question... suv or wagon:

Granted it isn't a production vehicle, but...

duurtlang > Straight6PackRacing 11/15/2013 at 13:28

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I see you took my reply yesterday to heart. Or great minds think alike. My conclusion then: "y ou could propose that for something midsize-ish to be a wagon it needs to be at least 3.0 times as long as it is tall. If not it's a CUV or SUV."

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The class is something to take into account. I know you don't get them in the US but I'd say a Skoda Fabia Combi is a wagon, yet because it's a supermini it is quite short. It's not tall compared to other cars , but because of its short length it is relatively tall. Compare the hatch and the wagon below. I'd guess a huge SUV (Suburban? I'm not familiar with US market vehicles) might not be a suitable subject for your equation either, unless you connect the L/H ratio to length.

Skoda Fabia hatch:

Skoda Fabia Combi (wagon)

The Skoda Fabia hatch and wagon have the same hight. Length versus hight versus width of the wagon is (in meters): 4.25, 1.50, 1.64. The length to height ratio is thus a mere 2.83. Caused by it being a supermini. Yet it's still a wagon.

Because of all this I propose we shouldn't use a length to height ration, but a length-root to height ratio. This compensates for the relative tallness of all small vehicles that aren't sporty.

Your stats converted to metric plus the Skoda and a 2013 Suburban are below.

Conclusion: with your definition the Skoda would be more of a CUV/SUV than the Outback. With mine it doesn't as it compensates for length. The Suburban would be close to a wagon with your stats, with mine it's the most SUV-y of the bunch.

Edit: it's just a quick thought. I'd guess it could be improved upon quite a lot.

Straight6PackRacing > duurtlang 11/15/2013 at 13:37

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My main issue was Doug didn't provide a positive to his proof. It was just a negative proof, that was sloppy. My reply to his post is here . Great minds think alike!

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I considered a non-linear ratio but deiced to keep it in simple division for the mental spot check.

I agree with your analysis 100% - I found the height to be the leading indicator, a roof height taller than 60" got anything into a danger zone but could not reliably make it fail becasue of relative ratios. I like where you head is!

AMC/Renauledge > Straight6PackRacing 11/15/2013 at 13:37

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You're missing two key criteria for a station wagon:

1. It shares all but the wagon-like body panels and interior pieces with the sedan on which it's based.

2. It has a rear overhang at least as long as the sedan on which it's based.

#4 disagrees with almost every station wagon built before 1986.

Width-to-height ratios make the 1984-91 Civic wagon and Aerio SX into SUVs. So #5 doesn't work.

Length-to-height ratios make the '60s-80s Mini Traveler an SUV. So #6 doesn't work, either.

My rules would separate hatchbacks from wagons and SUVs/CUVs from wagons, as well.

Straight6PackRacing > Goshen, formerly Darkcode 11/15/2013 at 13:37

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Its not. Its a shooting brake by all definitions because of the 1 row seating.

This does get into the self-identification issues I described above.

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > Straight6PackRacing 11/15/2013 at 13:39

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LOL, my father's old Punto had a one-row seating arrangement too, as does an R26.R, should they be considered shooting brakes as well?

Straight6PackRacing > AMC/Renauledge 11/15/2013 at 13:43

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That is why we are peer reviewing the criteria so ensure the ambiguity does not persist. Also should have said I was speaking specifically for the contemporary SUV/CUV issues. The CRV didn't exist in its current form in '91. Didn't show up until '95 - it was one of the first compact SUVs on the market.

Straight6PackRacing > Goshen, formerly Darkcode 11/15/2013 at 13:45

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I consider both of these hatches; not wagons. Violate the L:H rule.

AMC/Renauledge > Straight6PackRacing 11/15/2013 at 14:16

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I see what you mean.

I really do think the "sedan panels" and "overhang" rules are essential to defining a vehicle as a wagon. They are enduring definitions that, taken together, accommodate 99% of all station wagons ever made, and exclude 99% of all hatchbacks and SUVs/CUVs ever made. Throw in a couple corollaries already provided us by Jalopnik , and we've got a pretty accurate set of parameters.

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So changes in design fads, vehicle regulations, drivetrains, tailgate designs, interior packaging, etc. don't require a change in definition.

reverberocket is nipping the apex..and gently blowing in it's ear. > turbosuperencabulator 11/19/2013 at 18:28

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There's always another outlier...

Biostar01 > Straight6PackRacing 11/19/2013 at 19:06

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Please tell me the XC70 is a wagon.

Do not give me

lifted + black plastic trim



CUV/SUV

because if so, 'Murica doesn't have any Volvo wagons until the V60 is fully available!

TexasEdition > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 11/19/2013 at 19:21

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SUVanagon

YendraBuilt > AMC/Renauledge 11/19/2013 at 19:22

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THIS is a wagon, just picked it up yesterday as a matter of fact! Pretty excited as it will be my shop's new parts runner, delivery mobile, take clients out to lunch in awesome style, jack of all trades just as it was designed...

hismiths > Straight6PackRacing 11/19/2013 at 19:24

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wagons have histrically had a drop-down tailgate and a lift up or roll-in rear window.

REAL wagons are made of wood (or at the very least have faux-wood applique below the beltline -NOTE: Aftermarket woodie kit PT Cruisers do not qualify.).

YendraBuilt > Straight6PackRacing 11/19/2013 at 19:29

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THIS is a wagon, as a matter of fact I just picked it up yesterday! Pretty excited to use this 390 powered behemoth to be my design & fabrication shop's parts runner, delivery mobile, take clients out to lunch in awesome style and comfort, jack of all trades just as it was designed to do some 45 years ago.

Doug DeMuro > Straight6PackRacing 11/19/2013 at 19:35

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THIS IS BRILLIANT!!!

Especially because it proves my point on the Outback!

But even if it didn't, rockin' work, and great job with all the formatting - very professional and cool. Thanks for doing this and following up!!

MannyBones > Straight6PackRacing 11/19/2013 at 19:52

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I kinda still wished I bought the E39 540i wagon I was looking hard at. I did eventually get an E39 540i 6-speed sedan
(only autos for the Touring) but it's still not a wagon.

highpsi > Straight6PackRacing 11/19/2013 at 20:40

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When I filled out the insurance information for my 2008 Durango, the insurance company classified it as a station wagon. These are the numbers and ratios.

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Tony Montana > highpsi 11/19/2013 at 21:07

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SUVs, as far as I'm aware, are all registered as station wagons, irregardless of the fact that they really aren't. This probably dates back to when SUVs weren't terribly common and so rather than creating a whole new category, they were registered as wagons (rather than trucks, probably due to cosmetics rather than their actual underlying platforms).

DDToTX > Straight6PackRacing 11/19/2013 at 21:15

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I think it's important to include some criteria aimed at measuring the car-ness of a model in question. Cross-overs will have higher ride height and CG while wagons will focus on handling.

subarudrivingseattleite > Straight6PackRacing 11/19/2013 at 21:43

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I think the next step to your analysis is to look at more data. I'm sure jalopnik has a programmer who can scrape the dimensions including wheelbase, overhang, etc. for all of the quintessential wagons, SUVs, hatchbacks, shooting brakes, etc. over the last few decades. With this data you can create confidence intervals on different ratios and dimension and use this to classify other models with some confidence. You could even do a cluster analysis and see how many segments we should have and how they compare/contrast.

Parkwood60 > Straight6PackRacing 11/19/2013 at 21:53

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How old are you? 25? Or are you not from the USA? Wagons didn't have any sort of liftgate until the late 70s, early 80s. Many had fold down tailgates with a window that folded up, or slid down into the gate. Where do you think the term "tailgate party"comes from? Certainly not from people driving pick up trucks to football games. Then you have the Ford "Magic Gate", quickly adopted by everyone else, that opens as both a door and a tailgate.

In short, #4 needs to be deleted.

barkles > Straight6PackRacing 11/20/2013 at 00:56

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Hard cargo cover with strings attached to open with the tailgate = HATCH. Soft cargo cover that rolls up = WAGON.

TylerLinner > Straight6PackRacing 11/20/2013 at 08:32

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If the Legacy Wagon is accepted as a wagon, its lifted Outback counterpart should be accepted too. The only thing changed is the ride height. Crossovers actually have taller bodies than wagons, not just higher suspension.

fredschumacher > Straight6PackRacing 11/20/2013 at 08:50

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It's simpler. If the body goes straight back and cuts off mostly vertical, it's a wagon. If it ends at an angle, it's a hatchback. If it has sliding side doors and a flat floor, it's a minivan. SUVs are wagons, just more expensive.

Straight6PackRacing > TylerLinner 11/20/2013 at 09:26

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The height on the calculation is the curb height - not the body height. That eliminates almost every crossover I looked at. Including my forester on a WRX suspension (much lower than stock). Still a crossover. A decent handling crossover, but still a crossover.

DoubleU > Straight6PackRacing 11/20/2013 at 09:31

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When expanded, this table is transparent. You can give the cells a white fill to make it easier to read.

Straight6PackRacing > DoubleU 11/20/2013 at 09:42

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Stupid PNGs in excel....thanks for the tip. The tables did not come out near as clean as I would have liked.

DoubleU > Doug DeMuro 11/20/2013 at 10:38

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OK. I just spent way too much time on this at work....

In my opinion, the ground clearance being omitted from the calculations is a serious flaw. When taking that into account (and the Cadillac website "conveniently" doesn't have the dimension listed for either the CTS or CTS-V wagons. Coincidence or Doug Demuro nefariousness?)

When ground clearance is taken into account, nothing really changes (column L/BH), the ratios are in the same order as L/H. The Outback, however, moves much closer to wagon than to small SUV. There is also a larger variance in the difference compared to the 240, where deviation from the wagon ratio is reduced.

Therefore, Outback=wagon.

DoubleU > DoubleU 11/20/2013 at 10:58

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Edited dimensions based on author's note in discussion that curb height was taken into account. I found some discrepancies. All dimensions are per Edmunds.com if available.

Also, evidently I can't speak. Must have something to do with the 3:45am wake up call from my son's room where I found him and his bed soaked in poop laced urine from an overflowing diaper.

What I was trying to say is that the change from the "station wagon" ratios by the outback is lessened when you take ground clearance into consideration.

I'm going to take a nap.

DoubleU > Straight6PackRacing 11/20/2013 at 10:59

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Tell me about it....fucking excel.

I have found that screen capture is the cleanest way:

These are my numbers with revised dimensions (from edmunds). I found some different values than you did.

FixMaster2K1 > Straight6PackRacing 11/20/2013 at 11:03

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#4 is clearly wrong, the 70's to 80's caprice wagon does not have a lift gate. The glass rolls down into the tailgate, and the tail gate has the dual hinge, so depending on the window position, it will open like a car door, or drop like a truck tailgate.

DoubleU > Straight6PackRacing 11/20/2013 at 11:07

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My take (I found some different dimensions. All dims from edmunds, if possible).

Ground clearance should be subtracted.

Outback=wagon.

TylerLinner > Straight6PackRacing 11/20/2013 at 11:19

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I know how the calculation goes. I'm saying that the calculation should take the base vehicle into account to weed out false negatives like the Outback.

Doug DeMuro > DoubleU 11/20/2013 at 11:24

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Your point being that the body is actually surprisingly un-tall, and much of the Outback's height is made up with its ground clearance? Thus proving that it has the body of a wagon, just jacked up a bit? I could get behind this thinking. Although I'm not entirely sure ground clearance should be taken into consideration, believe it or not. To me the point is overall height, since that's what we're looking at in traffic. If you start looking at 'body height' I bet you'll find the Nissan Cube and Scion xB are very much SUVs, and that isn't the case.

Straight6PackRacing > DoubleU 11/20/2013 at 11:52

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The ride height vs. body height does make some different breakpoints. I do think you have to take overall height into consideration otherwise a suburban would be in the wagon bucket becuase of its enormous size.

Nice calc, btw! Ahh conditional formating....