Tips for learning Stick?

"hedbutter" (hedbutter) 11/11/2013 at 10:47 • Filed to: None

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OPPO- I'm currently in the process of working with a local Subaru dealership on getting a BRZ. Naturally, I'll want to get this with a manual, but my experience with a manual is approximately 1 hour in a parking lot with a friends car. As I live in a hilly area and commute through downtown Pittsburgh, how would you recommend i get more comfortable with driving stick? I know that it will be time behind the wheel, but I can take a day off work or keep a Saturday open in order to learn in the most effecient way.

Also, if any Pittsburgh Oppo-nauts know a place where I could practice on hills w/o traffic (or practice in general), I currently live on the Southside, so near there would be preferred.

Rico > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 10:49

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Most driving schools have a manual car option, I suggest doing some googling and seeing what's in your area. Yeah you'll have to pay but you'll get a decent amount of experience in a beater that won't cost you hundreds in clutch replacement.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 10:49

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Driving shoes, and find a parking lot with an incline.

Party-vi > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 10:49

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Find an empty parking lot and practice driving around, stopping & starting, reversing in and out of spots, etc. I would suggest business parks as they usually have large empty parking lots on the weekends.

offroadkarter > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 10:50

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I know one guy who never drove stick in his life until he bought a manual mustang GT and drove it home 2 hours that day.

Could always do it that way!

Franzouse > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 10:52

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The best thing about driving stick is the feel of the engine. You feel teh vibration and hear it whine when you get too high in the revs on acceleration and also feel that reassuring surge in rpm when you're downshifting. I'm not really in Pittsburgh but if you can find a quiet road to practice going through the motions, up the gears and back down. and to "feel" how your vehicle reacts to what you're doing, you should be ok.

Also, no shame at all in using the handbrake when starting on an incline.

have fun

tromoly > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 10:53

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Watch videos, that and go actually drive in traffic. I learned in a parking lot for about ~30 minutes just to get the basics down, then a couple weeks later my dad rode shotgun while I drove back from Wisconsin on the highway. There's really no substitute other than going out and just driving, hill stops and city traffic can only be learned by actually going out and doing them.

doodon2whls > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 10:55

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See this post and my reply:

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/i-taught-my-si…

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 10:56

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Find an empty piece of land and practice starts. That is the best thing to get used to the clutch. Stop. Shift to first, move, shift to second, stop. Start over. You will get the hang of things.

After that, just drive.

The Jevans > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 10:57

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Tires are cheaper than clutch replacements. Err on the side of hooning. The law enforcement is usually understanding. Starting from a full stop on an uphill slope is always the hardest thing. It will feel weird rolling back while trying to get the timing right. You will probably stall a lot. If you can, find a place to practice this without the worry of a car staying too close to your ass (sloped driveways, park roads, etc.). Try driving with a passenger who drives stick regularly and can stay calm. Ask for advice whenever possible (this was a good start).

axiomatik > The Jevans 11/11/2013 at 11:10

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In those situations (starting up a hill), you can use the parking brake to help hold your car until your clutch grabs. Just be sure to release it.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 11:22

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I just did no gas starts like 6 or 7 times until I could find the catch point and then I just started balancing gas and clutch faster and faster until I felt comfortable enough to not look like an idiot at a stop light. 1st gear is the only hard gear to learn, 2-5(6) is easy as pie.

driftmeister > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 11:43

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I have had a manual BRZ since last October.

First off, one thing to note about the BRZ is that the clutch engagement point is a bit higher than other cars. This lead to a plenty of stalling 1) when I test drove the car, 2) after I bought it and 3) whenever someone drove my car.

So, if you stall it when you test drive or when you drive it, just physically tell yourself, "IT'S OK"! Until you get a hang of the car, this is going to be regular and is not a reason to not enjoy the car. If it bothers you a lot, you can adjust the clutch engagement point pretty quickly ( http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthr… ).

By the way, the FT86CLUB forum has a ton of info about the car, people who have modded the cars and plenty of part/ accessory reviews. Some of the info is fanboyish but good info nonetheless.

Ok, onto driving on hills. As long you keep off Squirrel Hill in the winters you should be fine. Just kidding.

Because the car doesn't have a ton of low-end torque, you will find yourself revving a little more than usual to get moving. Again, nothing unusual for the BRZ, so, enjoy the noise and drive on. If I am on a hill and I am at a stoplight or stop sign, I pull the E brake on. When I am ready to move, I clutch in and shift into first gear, slowly release the clutch while giving it a little gas (PROTIP: you might need more gas/revs than you would need on level ground), then, when I feel the clutch engage and car move, I push the E brake and I am off on my way without stalling.

Again, the key is to remember that it is ok to stall. Just relax, it will happen often until you get the hang of it.

Additional BRZ/manual tranny specific info: If you are coming to a stopsign/stop light and are downshifting, you will notice that the car will refuse to shift into first unless you are almost creeping or at a stop. This is ok behavior. Just leave it in 2nd, come to a complete stop and then engage 1st. Also, I always downshift 6-5, 5-4, 4-3, 3-2 and not 6-4 or 4-2 even though you CAN do it. I feel the transmission engaging more smoothly and it's less wear on the synchros if you downshift sequentially.

Enjoy the car. It's a riot. Keep it below 4ooo RPM for the first 1000 miles and after that, let her rip. Enjoy the 5000 - 7400RPM powerband as that is when the car is really alive!

Jayhawk Jake > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 11:45

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Find a parking lot with an incline, and practice there.

It shouldn't take that long to be comfortable enough to drive to work. Just focus on getting started in first, feeling the clutch. Once you're moving, it's really easy to drive stick. You might bounce a bit into second, but above that it's pretty hard to not be smooth.

liquid1036 > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 11:48

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Don't think you really need to go to a class for this, I bought my first stick in 2011 - Audi A4. Now before that my experience was driving friends cars every now and then, so I knew the very basics but not enough to feel confident.(I still managed to get home pretty safe stalling only once on 40 min drive from VA - MD on capital beltway and 270)

Like others have stated the best thing you could do is practice on an empty parking lot, get a feel for the clutch and sit there(without moving and in neutral) pressing the clutch and slowly releasing it. you should be able to feel at what point the engine will stall if you continue to release it.(in gear) Once you have that understanding you could then start with getting it into first gear (which will always be the hardest) as you are slowly releasing the clutch slowly give it gas and NEVER please NEVER POP the clutch. (this is easier said than done but you will learn to just don't let go of that clutch)You should start to feel pretty confident once you get this down and when you do start practicing on small hills. The car will start to roll back on a hill but once you start hitting the gas it will go.

Some more tips:

-On a stop light you will stall once or twice (trust me this has happened to me when I first started) Try to stay calm turn on the car and try again, if you get flustered you will end up peeling out by popping the clutch and flooring it.

-On a hill I would usually try go roll back to show the driver behind me that I am driving a stick and to please be considerate and give me room. This doesn't always work since most drivers are oblivious to anything around them. (Once you master the hills you wont need to do this)

-Remember not all manual cars are created equally, while owning a manual will no doubt give you a better leg to drive another it wont account for the sweet spot between the clutch and gas that you will learn to master.

Sn210 > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 11:54

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I think everyone here has given you a pretty good list. Taking off from a stop and hill starts are probably the most difficult situations to learn. You don't need much of a hill, just something with enough of an incline so that the car rolls. Then you can practice getting a feel for the clutch and try to hold the car in place without brakes. Another thing you might want to consider learning is how to start the car by popping the clutch. It's nonessential to everyday driving, but it might be of some use in the future. Good luck!

Team6.1 > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 11:56

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Not sure if it is still possible to rent a manual teansmission? As for a hill try a parking garage. Usually not super busy especially near the top. I used the handbrake for a long time when I learned. Otherwise it just takes seat time driving.

Bird > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 12:26

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think this is the best advice I've ever read on the subject:

From Cartalk

The important part:

"Now you’re ready for our foolproof, trademarked Click and Clack technique for learning to drive standard... without having to spend $2,000 on a new clutch . (This technique is not recommended by the Clutch Rebuilders Association, by the way. They hate it!)

Here it is: Without giving the vehicle any gas, continue to release the clutch very slowly, and see if you can get the car creeping along. Your goal is to do this without stalling the car."

Learning the engagement point is the most important part. It's all cake after that.

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > Bird 11/11/2013 at 12:55

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So, keep pulling the clutch out, and at the moment it's going to die, push it back in?
I guess that makes sense. You will now know the point at which it will die if you haven't given it enough gas.

b-rock > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 13:06

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Make 100% sure you know how a clutch works. Youtube it.

Also, brakes are much cheaper than clutches and transmissions... so don't downshift when you're just rolling to a stop... Only downshift if you want to DRIVE in a lower gear. So often I see guys heading for a stop sign downshift through the gears being all stupid and pretend racey... Just pop it out of gear before it lugs and stop...

Also, don't stop learning until you master double-clutch downshifting.... it saves clutches and transmissions... Every downshift without matched revs from double clutching wears the syncros and clutch disc.

Bird > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 11/11/2013 at 13:23

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You should actually try to get it moving...let it out so slowly that the car will move without stalling. If you can manage that point, you'll have it down.

Your car should move forward slowly while doing this. If you're letting it out fast enough that the car lurches and wants to die, try again releasing the clutch slower. It should be a gentle start and moving a very slow speed.

Big Bubba Ray > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 14:23

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The way I teach people usually does the job. I've taught 4 people, successfully how to drive stick with this method. Disclaimer: I don't know if this is the best method, but it seems to work decently for me.

Find an open parking lot with plenty of room, of course. Clutch in, put car in 1st gear, rev engine to 2,000ish rpm (higher rpms help), let clutch out VERY slowly until you feel car creeping forward. Continue to let clutch out and be on your way.

Let us know how learning goes!

eovnu87435ds > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 15:38

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Honestly, if you're on this site, you will be able to drive very fluently in about 3 days. You understand how a manual transmission works, and you have even driven one before. If anything, brush up in your friend's car on your way to pick up your new BRZ.

Also, what worked well for me when I bought my Subaru (first MT car) was that I knew the clutch needed to be replaced soon, and it only cost me $100 for a new OEM clutch. As soon as I stopped worrying about destroying my clutch, I drove fantastically.

Now, I know that the clutch is a bit more expensive for a BRZ(about $350 or so), but if you don't mind doing the work yourself, I would just buy one, shrinkwrap it, and put it in storage.

liquid1036 > b-rock 11/11/2013 at 15:48

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Why do you want to double clutch on a downshift? Rather than just rev match?

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > hedbutter 11/11/2013 at 21:52

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The clutch in a Brz/fr-s sucks. Don't learn on it.

b-rock > liquid1036 11/12/2013 at 01:58

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....Because "rev matching" doesn't spin the transmission up to the speed that matches speed of the flywheel (engine) in a higher gear... If you just rev-match with your foot on the clutch, at the point of time of the engagement, the transmission/clutch is spinning slower..... so the transmission employs the syncros to make up for the speed differential and the clutch slips as it speeds up... The whole point of double-clutching is to spin the transmission and clutch up to the right speed to match the engine... then everything just meshes on its own... the syncros don't need to do any work at all and the clutch gets zero wear... In double-clutching, when you very briefly rev it in neutral, what you're doing is spinning up the transmission and clutch to match the engine as you shift a fraction of a second later... Shifting this way, transmissions and clutches can last literally hundreds of thousands of miles... Obviously, if you aren't fussy about being gentle on your car because you're just going to sell it — or you don't care what it costs to fix it, then just mash through the gears... but if you want to drive quickly and smoothly and expertly, double-clutching is necessary as it makes for more seamless power (and de-power) delivery.... Which I like because I do all my own work — including rebuilding the transmissions of old cars I buy because the PO didn't know how to double-clutch!

b-rock > hedbutter 11/12/2013 at 02:26

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Also: Generally, don't give it ANY gas until the clutch has started to engage... Don't rev it and feather the clutch... that's clutch slipping. Don't slip your clutch unless you want to buy a new one soon.

1Bummer > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 11/15/2013 at 17:36

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I taught my wife and took it one step farther: I had her take her shoes off.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > 1Bummer 11/15/2013 at 17:39

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I would have, but there are safety reasons that have made me absolutely terrified of driving in bare feet.

marshknute > hedbutter 11/15/2013 at 17:50

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First, take some time in a parking lot to practice. Forget about the gas and brake, and just get used to the clutch. Pull the clutch out until you feel the clutch trying to engage (the car will start to vibrate/judder and creep forward). For a new manual driver, you'll want to practice just holding the clutch on that engagement point. As you get better, you'll be able to start the car in 1st without ever touching the gas pedal (on flat ground).

As for driving around Pittsburgh (I go to CMU and am currently on my second manual car), err on the side of POWER. The most difficult part for a new manual driver to learn is the inverse nature of releasing the clutch to a specific point while depressing the linear brake/gas. It's like patting your head while rubbing you're tummy—it's tough to do at first. To make it easier, separate the two actions. With the clutch all the way in, give it some gas (2000-2500 RPM) and lock your right foot there revving the engine. Then depress the clutch to the engagement point you became familiar with while practicing in the parking lot. It may not be smooth, but the car will start moving. It's far less embarrassing to look like a noob than to stall in traffic and get honked at for not obeying the green light. Once the car starts moving, then you can unlock your right foot from the gas and drive normally.

disadvantage > hedbutter 11/15/2013 at 18:31

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I learned to drive late at night with a buddy telling me what to do. It worked out great because there were fewer cars on the road (this was the hardest thing for me to get used to, so starting without other cars was comfortable). I live in a flat area, so I used shipping bays for hills. When I wanted to get used to other cars on the road, I would drive around for about an hour a day.

GreenN_Gold > hedbutter 11/15/2013 at 18:50

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Here's a tip for when you're stopped on a steep hill. If you see a car approaching behind you, let off the brake and roll backward just a tiny bit. They will notice this, and usually stop shorter leaving you more room, understanding that you have a stick.

Or if they're not smart enough to realize you have a stick, they at least think, "Oh hey, this guy is rolling backwards for some reason." Anyway, in my experience it works lots and lots of the time.

SRTPT > axiomatik 11/15/2013 at 19:59

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Cheater. I learned on a Ford Ranger with a parking brake that was a pedal so no hand brake for me.. But that was the hardest thing to learn that fine finesse with a clutch. My mom did the same to me, slight incline and told me to "get on with it". I had done lots of flat parking lot work so I had the basics. But that little incline had me in tears but I have a great feel for a clutch and hills do not scare me. I tell a friend that is learning don't worry about traffic behind you, people who drive/driven a manual will give you a sec to get going. We all miss gears and stall now and then. When you get frustrated, take a breath check what gear you are in and try again. And I personally like Chuck Taylor Converse for being able to feel the pedals..

Manuél Ferrari > The Jevans 11/15/2013 at 19:59

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Plus the stock tires on the BRZ suck so best to torch them as quick as possible!

Ian Duer (320b) > hedbutter 11/15/2013 at 20:08

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One word. Graveyards.

I'm NOT suggesting hooning in them but they tend to have hills and no one around to get in your way.

JGrabowMSt > hedbutter 11/15/2013 at 23:39

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Take a break from it. Honestly. The very first time I drove a manual, it was dreadful. It was in a car I could only dream of affording, much less afford to fix if I did anything wrong. After getting the faintest gist of getting the car in motion, I called it a day. The next day, same car, same parking lot, and I was really moving. My moving was limited to first and second to get the starting/stopping down, but still.

Even some instructors will forget this and try to push you to get it right before the end of a session. Sometimes, calling it a day and reinforcing what you know is better than trying to go that extra bit. The next session becomes easier on a psychological level because you aren't frustrated from the past couple hours, and you can focus better.

Oh, and to reiterate some comments, the engagement point of the clutch is REALLY important. And don't be afraid of the open road, but admittedly, unless there are a large, empty parking lots by you, this is a crappy time of year. I spent nearly every day one summer with my dad in a school parking lot that had an incline, stop and yield signs. I didn't drive back to the house (less than 2 miles) until I could get around and around his designated "course" flawlessly and continuously. He would have me stop and start at various parts of the parking lot (the complete lack of other cars is what made that possible).

Be prepared to make mistakes and get yelled at by other drivers for not being perfect, and you'll be set. Nearly 7 years later, I can say that out of my group of friends, I'm the most confident driver with a manual trans, and most of my friends prefer when I drive because of that. Also, save the hoonage to off the public roads. I've done my share of stupid things, and looking back at it, never ever again.

oaklandburner > hedbutter 11/15/2013 at 23:59

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Schenley Park, behind CMU, is usually deserted in the later hours. There's one stretch that's one-way uphill that's pretty good for practicing.

oaklandburner > oaklandburner 11/16/2013 at 00:17

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If you want help, you can email me at tcz(at)andrew(dot)cmu.edu, and I'd be happy to find a time that works.

PowerFlower > hedbutter 11/16/2013 at 04:22

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I'll never get used to this. People should be learning to drive stick when they first learn how to drive.

Also means I don't have any useful advice other than to start taking it slow, don't drive like you drive an automatic for the first few weeks. I spent hours of lessons in the first three gears before my instructor would let me drive over 50kph.

PowerFlower > Bird 11/16/2013 at 04:25

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It's good advice, but really depends on the car. Tons of cars will just stall without gas, no matter how subtle you are. I've never managed this in my Boxster (even though it's fine to drive from a standstill even in fifth, if I'm careful enough).

I suppose a brand new BRZ should be fine with this though. In general, Japanese cars tend to be easy to shift. (Or maybe that's just me longing back to the clutch and shift in my Miata, so much nicer than a Porsche.)

exboyracer > hedbutter 11/16/2013 at 08:47

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After reading all - well many of these suggestions I think a better suggestion is DONT OVERTHINK this.

lazy_git > hedbutter 11/16/2013 at 12:09

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One other point that I don't believe anybody else has made - once you have changed gear take your foot off the pedal! The quickest way to wear your clutch out is to 'ride' the pedal. Oh, and think about those of us who started to drive when there were still some cars around that didn't have full synchromesh gearboxes, meaning that you had to 'double-declutch' changing down, that is changing down into neutral and then into the lower gear - as with all things, practice will soon make it all second-nature.

ChrisWilson > hedbutter 11/16/2013 at 15:02

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I look at driving a manual like swimming. one foot down the other foot up. the foot down while bringing the other foot up.

Mootsfox > hedbutter 11/19/2013 at 21:26

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Mt. Washington.

Also good choice on the Subaru!

Mootsfox > hedbutter 11/19/2013 at 21:27

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Oh, and I believe all the BRZs all have hill assist, the brakes with remain on until you give it gas.

isthisthereallife-isthisjustfantasy > hedbutter 11/20/2013 at 13:18

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All right look man there lots of ways you can do this all right. Handbraking is the easiest so the first thing I want you to do, I want you to rip that E-Brake all right. After you rip that E-Brake then I want you to power over.

RandomHero278411 > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 11/20/2013 at 23:06

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let the clutch out and the car will start to creep very slowly and the revs will drop. thats what you are looking for. as soon as those 2 things happen, stop letting the clutch out and give it a bit of gas. once youve got it moving you can release the clutch.

pollenstein > hedbutter 11/22/2013 at 00:03

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What is this trepidation about manuals? This is not something you need to seek specialist advice on, its not some black art, its what everyone used to do just a few decades ago (old women, teenage kids, complete beginners)

Just get in the car and do it, you know what the pedals are for, you'll work the rest out in an hour or two.