Drove behind this on the way to work this morning

"CalzoneGolem" (calzonegolem)
11/11/2013 at 10:00 • Filed to: ramblin' bait

DISCUSSION (71)

EL_ULY > CalzoneGolem
11/11/2013 at 10:06

South Carolina? I saw something similar to that in Charleston

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > CalzoneGolem
11/11/2013 at 10:08

Lights in use/reflectors/what I think are shallow kick panels = late IIa US spec, unless a III with the lights reworked. Fairly nice trim, but unlike most with that type of roof in the US, isn't a "Station Wagon" (no safari top, etc.), which may speak to it being an import or the top as a later addition. Actually, if I'm seeing correctly in the first pic a pair of tie-down hooks and tailgate pins, it was probably sold originally as a pickup - the different rear trim is literally the only way you can tell.

Limestone on Bronze Green, probably ~'69.

lepie > CalzoneGolem
11/11/2013 at 10:09

You guys get a boner for anything you can't get. Those things are SHIT.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 10:10

I own one a few years earlier, and I'm currently helping several relatives rebuild more. Eat me.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 10:12

I'd rather not. They are poor vehicles.

CalzoneGolem > EL_ULY
11/11/2013 at 10:12

Nope, Maine.

CalzoneGolem > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 10:13

It was definitely a manual and being driven by a young lady.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 10:14

By what metric? Leaks, ride quality, those I'll give you. Interior quality on a Series III or later, I'll give you as well. General durability when properly maintained - your claim is horseshit, as my grandfather documented well over 300,000 miles with several on nothing but dirt roads. Capability, your claim is extremely weak as well.

CalzoneGolem > lepie
11/11/2013 at 10:14

In what way are they shit?

Obviously we can get them since I drove behind this one a couple hours ago.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > lepie
11/11/2013 at 10:15

For what reason?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > CalzoneGolem
11/11/2013 at 10:15

Well, sure, that's the all-synchro box, probably. Poser.

/a joke, props to her.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 10:21

They are expensive relics of the past. They leak, they fall apart, they are unsafe, the TD5 engines were horrible (not that the new transit one is much better), not to mention the ride.

General durability is a shallow claim to make. For all the 300.000 mile defenders, i'll give you 10 300.000 mile nissans, toyotas, etc.

They just aren't very good, and i don't understand the appeal to the american people. I guess it's the same thing with old 3 series wagons. Nothing special here, jesus cars over there.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > CalzoneGolem
11/11/2013 at 10:22

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/you-should-nev…

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Established pattern of hate on the Defender, thus transferred to the Series. Apparently I'd missed that with this guy.

lepie > CalzoneGolem
11/11/2013 at 10:22

Sit in one, have your shoulder bruised. Heater doesn't work, roof will leak, rear windows will fall out, transfer case will break, etc etc. You can't normally get them, but there are loopholes for everything.

CalzoneGolem > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 10:25

Weird man.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 10:27

Right, because they are shit. Do you prefer people that continually change their opinion?

CalzoneGolem > lepie
11/11/2013 at 10:28

This sounds like the combination of every off road vehicle ( harsh road manners, farm like refinement ) combined with every British vehicle ( electronics that work when they feel like, parts randomly falling off/breaking )

I'm not sure where your sites were set when you climbed into a 40 year old British off roader but they aren't as comfy and reliable as you Camry.

lepie > CalzoneGolem
11/11/2013 at 10:30

Most off roaders weren't like that, even 20 years ago.

My point is you can can climb in a new one, and it's the exact same abject misery as it was 40 years ago. It's an ancient, overpriced relic. And not in a good way.

... i was speaking about a new one.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 10:31

Except it's not a Defender, you bozo. It's a Series IIa. Its general record safety-wise and leak-wise is not a stand-out to the negative from any other British vehicle of the 60s-70s, and a special rate of falling apart is not in any evidence whatsoever - ask anyone in South Africa. It's a simpler vehicle than the Defender, and in quite a few ways more robust - ancestry of the Defender notwithstanding.

It's a "relic of the past" because this specific one *is from the past, you buffoon*. Moreover, these are much cheaper than Defenders due to less of a modern vehicle demand, so your "overpriced" claim falls apart as well. Further still, the specific ability to repair and keep on the road as they used to say "with a crescent wrench and a screwdriver" meant that even if it fell apart, it could be kept going longer than comparable vehicles.

My grandfather imported American jeeps to his location in South Korea prior to the Land-Rover, the touted CJ3A it would have been I think. Under his use conditions, the frames developed stress fractures within several years. Other failures cropped up as well. These same conditions allowed him to run Land-Rovers for 300,000 miles.

I can understand that you have a hate-on for the Defender in its refusal to advance technologically, but to displace that to a genuine classic vehicle is in every way idiotic.

CalzoneGolem > lepie
11/11/2013 at 10:33

So, you came here to tell me that the 40 years newer version of the vehicle I saw on the ride to work this morning is crap? Well, dually noted I guess. I will cancel my Evoque order also I guess.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 10:34

It was useful to know where you were coming from. Namely, irrational hatred of the Defender causing you to be a total cockbite regarding any related vehicle.

It's possible to have a negative opinion and not to insert it into any even tangentially related discussion with bile - particularly if you don't feel like explaining or grounding your negative opinion. No, just "it's SHIT" like a 12-year old.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 10:34

A new defender is the same basic vehicle, with an interior from a ford transit. Thanks for the namecalling, it's really helping.

You might think you're intimately familiar with these things, but since you live in a place where these are quite rare, i can't take your opinion seriously. You are comparing these to old jeeps. Compare them to a nissan patrol, or toyota landcruiser, and we'd be on more even grounds.

I KNOW these things quite well. I've killed several of them in forrests and fields. They aren't very good.

lepie > CalzoneGolem
11/11/2013 at 10:35

An evoque is a range rover, a defender is a land rover. Nice try.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 10:37

Nice to know where you are coming from. Namely, a blind misguided love for what was originally meant to be a cheap farm vehicle that would help rebuild a torn great britain, and has hardly evolved since. All the yups drive these things here. They're expensive, yet cheap at the same time.

It's okay, though, i can see that i have (very easily) offended you. I won't hold it against you.

CalzoneGolem > lepie
11/11/2013 at 10:38

I know but it is already tainted by association.

lepie > CalzoneGolem
11/11/2013 at 10:41

okay ...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 10:46

Locally, these are actually *not* quite rare. By which I mean, I know fistfuls of people with them and have worked on over a half-dozen. Rare in the US overall, certainly. Rare in my immediate locale? Not as much. Nor does that prove I have a rose-colored view of them due to rarity - I've grown up with the damn things which might imply a tint of view, but instead of going for the easy fruit you claim my favorable view is due to *rarity*?

You seem to impute that old Jeeps are shit as well, or that a more modern standard should be used (since I can't deduce *which* Patrols and Land-Cruisers you're referring to). Well, any number of the oldest versions of the latter served alongside the Series in the dirt road conditions that my anecdotes derive from, and the Land-Rover came out on top for ability to sustain in the third world.

That factor - ability to support with poor local technology - is something diminished strongly in the Defender, in addition to greater strain on many parts from increase in weight and increase in power. In addition, the vehicle is more than adequate to its time period, where a Defender might not be.

You say "it's shit" based on anecdote. Well, I say "it's not" based on a much larger number of anecdotes. Neither is a concise replacement for evidence, but since your anecdotes seem far more scattershot, I think I'm more correct. One of these was a family car for years, and my grandfather operated them in the rough for three decades, and you think "I didn't like it and screwed a couple up once" is a more convincing record?

Unless you can be civil *and* argue more persuasively, I'm dismissing your responses from here on.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 10:47

Your methods of argumentation offend me far more than your opinion. Nice with the passive aggression there.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > CalzoneGolem
11/11/2013 at 10:49

Concise lepie refutation post part 1 (in case he dismisses):

I can understand that you have a hate-on for the Defender in its refusal to advance technologically, but to displace that to a genuine classic vehicle is in every way idiotic

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 10:50

Concise lepie refutation part 2:

Unless you can be civil *and* argue more persuasively, I'm dismissing your responses from here on.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 10:54

You're the one who started calling me names, pretty much right off the bat. Because i said the defender is shit. If you can't take that without reverting to name calling, then i very much doubt you could argue a point with anyone you disagree with.

My "methods of argument" are quite simple in this case. I state my opinion, and i defend it.

I never implied that jeeps are shit, as a matter of fact, i own a JK diesel. I have also owned a defender 90 TD5. I speak from experience. The defender was a poorly built vehicle. Your excuse of "oh, but that's the same with all british vehicles" doesn't make it any better. I've also owned classic british bikes, and i still own a triumph daytona t595. If their new bikes had the same problems as their old ones, i'd say they are quite shit as well.

I can see you are quite passionate about these things, and that's fine. My triumph is continually giving me grief, as is my vx220. Both british. Doesn't preclude me from admitting that they are a bit shit, though. And, oh, so does pretty much everyone else that owns those. Same goes for the defender (at least here).

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > CalzoneGolem
11/11/2013 at 10:55

His argument thus far seems to be "I drove one once and got an owie and it broke down and it hasn't changed much in 60 years so it sucks".

Do I think he's taking into account that the oft-whined about (by him) wheel position is totally different in a UK defender or series because the right seating position is wider? Do I think he's taking into account the wide range of heaters in use, some of which are good and some of which aren't? Do I bollocks, to adopt the British.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 11:06

What are you trying to prove, you little child? Continue the conversation in thread if you are so convinced of your righteousness.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:07

Okay, since this is a more reasonable response:

I said "bozo" as a light means of suggesting silliness. In common American English, that's not a severe insult, scarcely an insult of any kind. If you found it more so, I apologize. I will not apologize for the second epithet, as it describes a manner of behavior I felt you'd already evinced.

Your "methods of argument" that I called in question were that it took severe pressure to get you to elaborate on your dislike - you reacted first by implying that any like of the vehicle was irrational, and by imputing feelings toward the vehicle to others rather than elaborating on your own. This is not productive.

My question about the Jeep was that I'd compared a Jeep of the period with the Series, and you called foul on the comparison. You then cited other vehicles to compare. I was asking *what* made it a poor comparison - because if contemporaries were compared it would mean you discounted the Jeep as shit. If contemporaries were not compared to the Series, but more modern vehicles, the comparison didn't make any sense.

Your criteria of "shit" are clearly very different from mine, fair enough. I would contend that the Series (NOT, I repeat, the Defender as such) is well designed, but due to poor materials use (gasketing, etc.) and occasionally poor build quality, its quality in the end varies wildly. Carburetor issues, if any, are easily solved. Leaks, while not eliminated, can be reduced to extremely few. The vehicle, thus driven, is extremely rugged when maintained correctly - again, based on a very large anecdotal pool. Minor issues, in my perspective are the only ones that afflict the Series (again, not necessarily the Defender), and a very mildly temperamental vehicle does not inherently spell a verdict of "shit" overall, when taken with the vehicle's stronger qualities.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:10

Not prove anything as such, but I spent quite a while typing that, and I wasn't sure of your intent to argue in good faith. It was also meant to limit responses to you from others that might try to make the same points. Limiting what's required of you *and* me.

I should also note that your starting argument (e.g. "you can't get these") was completely wrong, so your intent at the start was *very* much in question.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 11:11

Kinja'd!!!

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 11:16

I didn't call you any names (except just now, in your little off-thread escapade). Why did you feel the need to give in to the immediate urge to call me a "bozo"? I wonder.

You've had to ask me, once. And i replied, by what measure is this "extreme pressure"?

The argument moved onto the defender instantly. The terms TD5 and defender were mentioned in my answer to you. You're the one projecting this onto me. As if i was some kind of land-rover boogeyman coming to insult the object of your affection, for no reason other than to stab you in the feels. You're the one that moved this conversation further downstream, only reading what you wanted to read.

These things are still sold here, new. They have the same shitty construction. The rivets still corrode out, the windows still fall out. The roofs still leak, the axles still snap. They cost 32K euros for the most basic of defender 90s. It's ridiculous. They're not very good, and they're damn expensive to boot.

Any vehicle can be made reliable if you keep throwing money into the pit. A good vehicle is one that doesn't NEED money thrown in the pit.

Chase > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:32

I'm noticing a problem here. You keep discussing the Defender...
"For all the 300.000 mile defenders"
"Same goes for the defender (at least here)."
"They cost 32K euros for the most basic of defender 90s"
..and many of your points (against a Defender) are certainly valid. The vehicle in the photo, however, is not a Defender . Ramblin's defense of this vehicle was not a defense of the Defender, yet you seem to be attributing it to (and responding to him) as if it was.

also, "defending the Defender" just sounds wierd

lepie > Chase
11/11/2013 at 11:36

I'm wondering the same thing, so why does he keep going? I've stated that my beef is with the defender (which is pretty much the same thing as this thing, except in a different time period).

This discussion has been about the defender all along, at least for me. Third post made it quite clear. I was under the assumption that this was a defender. Certainly looks the same.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:37

Kinja'd!!!

lepie > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
11/11/2013 at 11:38

lol. Bring it!

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:39

As a 5'10 male living in the American North East who drives a 1969 IIA on a weekly basis I can say this. My shoulder doesn't touch the door, the windows haven't fallen out, the transfer case is original factory installed along with the engine, I am never cold in the winter and I take the truck off road on a regular basis. I'd also like to point out that I am South African and so I can confirm what RamblinRover says. My dad has owned the same 109 Series IIA that he brought over from South Africa for the last 30 years with out any major issues that weren't of his doing (he stripped a rear axle towing a one ton zodiac on a beach because he got too friendly with the skinny peddle in low range AND the transfer case didn't shit the bed, its still going strong 18 years after the fact).

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:40

I said "bozo" because your jumping up and down "You guys are idiots for liking them, they're shit, they're shit they're shit!" was, in a word, ridiculous. Since you immediately jumped on a post of "hey, look I was behind an old car" with "THEY'RE SHIT!!1!!" I didn't feel any restraint from responding with similar maturity.

"Pressure" in this case meaning not just your replies to me, but others asking you what you meant, because your first several responses (not just to me) were very cryptic.

The argument "moved to the Defender" because that's where you wanted it. It was repeatedly pointed out that the Defender as such was not terribly relevant to the discussion. Repeated attempts by me and others to move the topic back to, oh, the topic at hand were rejected. Again: comparison of the Defender to another modern vehicle is extremely tangential to discussion of a 45 year old Series. I don't have to project that onto you, your own comment history featured "I hate the Defender zomg" style comments in fairly unrelated threads.

Let's play mechanical failure trivia, shall we?

Rivets: usually, I see all bodywork rivets intact on a Series. Which ones are you referring to? Of course, most on a Series are round-head rivets without a hollow core, I can't speak to those on a Defender. The only ones that immediately come to mind as corroding are those in a seat box and holding the front grill tabs, but both changed over the years.

Windows fall out: really? Every window in the vehicle is different between a Series and a Defender. Every. Single. One. A Series has firmly fixed tracks prone to rattle once the vehicle is over 40 years old, but that's not relevant to a Defender, now is it?

Roofs leak: this one I'll give you, to a point. Outside the side panel/windshield to top lid seals going, it's not typical, though.

Axle snap: typically on a Series, a fatigue item. More often seen on a LWB, but not as much a problem with the Series due to lower engine power. Not usually seen before many miles have accrued, and a fairly easy repair.

Price: well, a Series and related pieces in the US is pricey only when compared to comparable US-made 4wds, and even then only some. The Scout and Bronco have seen a lot of increase in the recent past. The rates demanded for, say, a vintage FJ over here make it cheap in comparison.

Parts cost is typically quite low (due to worldwide aftermarket support for virtually everything), so the volume of any pit involved is negligible. Significantly better than a wide range of British cars, particularly in this country.

I would contest that your definition is that of an *excellent vehicle*, as a good one may have other traits that speak to the owner strongly enough to offset it despite faults from the mediocre. I accept that you, personally, can't find any such traits.

lepie > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
11/11/2013 at 11:41

Maybe it's different for these, i don't know, but my beef is with the defender. Defenders are quite shit.

Is yours right hand drive by any chance?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:44

You're still talking about the defender though.

"These things are still sold here, new. They have the same shitty construction. The rivets still corrode out, the windows still fall out. The roofs still leak, the axles still snap. They cost 32K euros for the most basic of defender 90s. It's ridiculous. They're not very good, and they're damn expensive to boot."

These are all issues you have with the Defender, not the Series. You said the Series was shit. On what basis?

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 11:46

Bozo was only the first in a series of insults. I've responded to you, while others were asking the same. I've responded pretty much immediately.

The argument didn't move to the defender, because that's where i wanted it. It was there all along because they look the same, and i was under the assumption that this was a defender.

You are the one deferring the discussion to a series II, where i was quite clear that i was (and still is) about the defender.

The rivets rust out near the rear gate on a defender 90, the hinges go as well. The windows the small (unusual) windows in the roof, at the rear.

Axles snap quite readily in both a defender 90 and 110.

You don't even contest the leaking, and i can tell you, it's still a problem today. The door seals and rear top window seals are notorious for being very poor.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:46

Mine is left hand, the 109 is right hand. We also owned a 94 300Tdi D90 in South Africa for many years without issue and would have also brought it with if not for those stupid import restrictions they have on the Defenders.

lepie > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
11/11/2013 at 11:47

I have already explained this. I was under the impression that this was a defender. They look the same. Go back and read it. I've answered back, thinking it was a defender.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:47

I corrected you several times. Not a Defender - markedly lighter, more low-powered, significant differences in mechanical complexity, build methods, build material, the list goes on...

Not only a better showing for the company in its own time period, a better showing overall, and a classic vehicle.

lepie > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
11/11/2013 at 11:48

The right hand ones don't suffer the pedal and steering column offset that forces you into the door. I'm taller than you, my shoulder touches the door.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 11:49

Go back and reread from the start. I've responded to you with comments on a defender, pretty much right off the bat. I was under the impression that this was a defender.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:51

Between posting my post and refreshing I've seen the replies. It's already been covered I see.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:54

I don't know, my dad is 6' and has broad shouldered and he fits in his quite easily (used to work in the rail yards in South Africa). I'll say that my legs do feel cramped but not so much as to be uncomfortable, I mean these vehicles were designed for an Englishman.

Chase > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:54

I think your comments were perceived (loosely) as "defenders are shit, so these older ones are shit too". Its seemed (from an outside perspective) that you were lumping the older Series rovers in with the criticisms of the Defender, which is where this whole argument seems to have come from.

lepie > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
11/11/2013 at 11:55

No, the problem is that they were designed for RHD applications. The footwell on the passenger wasn't designed to accomodate a pedalbox. They never really solved it. The pedals sit to the right, the steering column to the left. You sit cantered to the left, and as such your shoulder touches the door.

lepie > Chase
11/11/2013 at 11:57

All i ever meant/said is that the defenders are shit, and they haven't evolved much since the old days. This is unacceptable for a vehicle costing 30K+ euros for a base model.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 11:57

Which I regret not picking up on sooner in the discussion - you'd have been spared some of my epithets borne of disgust that you'd be shitting on an old vehicle *out of nowhere*. I foolishly assumed you'd notice the differences (different window line, slightly different stance, different windows, different lights, different hinges, different door, different trim, etc. Most opponauts, I'd venture to say, would have noticed the difference based on past record.

That being said, I did mention it was a Series (down to year range!) in the main comments, and corrected you on the issue fairly quickly if one takes into account mention of a Series (now why would he mention a Series if this is a Defender?...) I wasn't the only one.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 12:02

I'm 6'2" with a fairly tall torso, and have a seating position that sometimes touches the door, sometimes doesn't. One interesting note with the Series is that the steering wheels up until ~'66 were a smaller diameter, thus less effectively forcing a leftward seat. Mine has the larger wheel.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 12:04

They look the same to me, only the front is very different. Had i seen the front, then i wouldn't have said what i did, since i don't know those.

My main beef remains with the fact that they still sell these things new. There isn't a whole lot that has changed about them, yet they ask for a lot of money.

My reaction came from the fact that you guys have lots of great cars over there, but seem to insist on lusting after (reasonably) common (if not banal) cars from over here. The bimmer wagons are a good example. Or anything diesel. I just thought "geez, not again".

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 12:10

Can only speak for defenders. I run into the same problem every time. A little less on the 110, but still hit it when going over bumps, etc. The problem is that in the winter, it gets FREEZING when your shoulder is up agains the door.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 12:13

It was an axiom of my grandfather's from each generation of Series (he had a I, several IIs, IIas, and a III) that each generation "fixed" everything with the vehicle "except what was wrong with it". Repeated over n generations, you can see how some of the positives might have gotten trod into the mud with tinkering and arbitrary changes not for the better.

Here's a snapshot of the (likely) front end of that one, the late IIa:

Kinja'd!!!

It is possible it was a III instead, as this:

Kinja'd!!!

By the latter, the vehicle had a vinyl padded dash and had begun numerous half-witted concessions to "luxury" that made it less openly, well, a tractor - more ashamed about it.

Mine is of this type:

Kinja'd!!!

Do I consider the Defender a bad vehicle? Unlike you, I really don't, but I'll concede any day that it's several long steps removed from the barebones rugged utility seen in the Series II/IIa.

Nevertheless, I've observed the Germans using them in mind-boggling quantities, so they must see something in them...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 12:15

It's not for nothing they say that familiarity breeds contempt. It's solidly true that if one thing causes you inordinate disgust with a vehicle, you'll have a hard time from then on if you have to experience it regularly.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 12:21

The (2003) 90 TD5 i owned gave me nothing but misery. I consulted forums and garages, and they all basically said "yeah they all do that". Would this be acceptable from a 1960s offroader? Sure. 2003? Not so much. First it was seals, then it was the transfer case, then the fuel pump went, then it was seals again (this time the windows). I used it for what it was designed. I took it off road a lot. My nissan patrol never gave me any grief, nor does my jeep really. The landy? Constantly broken. Snapped the passenger side rear inner shaft twice, one time hard enough to damage the transfer case. Let's not even talk about the electrics.

I've filled the nissan up once, and had to drain it. Never gave me any problems afterwards (other than an ungodly stench). The landy never got flooded, but nothing worked.

Now with my JK, i've done axles, suspension, lockers, disconnects, geometry, etc. Would never have considered that with the defender.

There was one thing that it was very good at, though: Towing.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 12:24

There is one variant i'd like to drive once, though. Just to see what it's like. It looks a bit off, but it's very imposing. It's called the iveco massif.

Kinja'd!!!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 12:30

Kinja'd!!!

I'm laughing about the electrics in sympathy, but I have here attached the diagram for a Series IIa: not in part, but the whole thing. You can see how the modern electrics would be an "improvement" not for the better.

My father drove a 109" Series IIa for nearly a decade as a construction work truck. Light dribbling from hypoid gear areas, but never enough to need addressing, eventually needed new window channel. Has been taken for a leisurely swim or two, so to speak (something my grandfather did regularly in a Series, electrically safe to over 3' depth), and he once damaged the rear spider gears IIRC trying to help a truck tractor cab recover from being stuck in snow (which, really...). Also had to replace a rear half-shaft at another time.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 12:32

Its distant ancestor, the Series II Santana, was typically built with better adherence to quality than many of the Series IIs out of Solihull. It might be a quality piece of equipment.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 12:32

Its distant ancestor, the Series II Santana, was typically built with better adherence to quality than many of the Series IIs out of Solihull. It might be a quality piece of equipment.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 12:34

I'd love to have found the schema for the 90, but i honestly believe that there was none. It was all just "best effort" from the factory if you ask me.

The tach signal never worked right. I tried to measure the output with a scope once. It looked as if wires were just randomly swining around and hitting things.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 12:37

These have the reputation of being well built, yes. The engine is also vastly superior. It's a VM, like my wrangler, except it has more cylinders. It's very related to the engine used in the grand cherokee.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lepie
11/11/2013 at 12:38

Sounds like you had a Friday Car in the worst way. Any one of your issues *could* have cropped up at any time, I guess, but to experience them all can't have been anything but a terrible draw of the cards.

Doesn't resolve your issues with how they drive, of course, but that's a more subjective thing.

lepie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 12:42

Could be, but looking and reading, it doesn't seem that way. They just aren't very good. They're good enough if you're willing to put up with a lot of BS. They won't leave you stranded, but that's hardly praise worthy in this day and age.

As for how it drove ... slow, awkward, ungainly, no brakes, cold when it's cold out, hot when it's hot out, wet when it's wet out, etc.

There are, however, two things that i think speak in it's favor.

- It looks quite good.

- It went well off road. (when it wasn't broken)