This is why you should learn about your car

"TheBaron2112" (TheBaron2112)
11/10/2013 at 21:13 • Filed to: None

What follows is NOT my story. It's a friend of mine on another forum. For on, I'd not be suckered into this. Not because I know a load about cars, but because I know enough to not get taken for a ride. Two, because I'd never own a Honda unless it was followed by the letters N, S, and X.

I give you, the timing belt story...

—-

"So I'm completely useless as a male and don't know shit about cars. I have an 08 Honda civic automatic with about 77k miles on it. Thursday on my way to work I notice a loud clicking sound about 10 miles from work on the freeway, though in heavy traffic. No dummy lights are on. I nervously drive the thing to work. It makes it. I get to work and decide that waiting until lunch to bring it somewhere is a bad idea, so I ask my co-worker who lives not far from work if she knows a mechanic. She does. I drive my car to the mechanic. Right away he hear the noise and says it's your timing belt and tells me it's going to be like $800. I figure my car is about to explode and agree to the repairs.

Now here is where I get stupid. When the car is ready the guy asks me to bring cash and he'll save me some money if I do. I give him the cash, he gives me the receipt. I ask if he has a bathroom before I hit the road and I put the receipt down to take a leak. I then leave and forget the receipt. Car seems to be running fine. I figure I got taken for a ride paying $780 but hey if it's fixed whatever no big deal.

So car is running fine until Saturday I go to a friends and it starts making the same noise. I make it to my friends. We leave the car there and take her car since it's too late on a weekend to take the car anywhere. We get back Sunday morning and her dad comes out will look at it and asks me to start the car with the hood open. It makes the sound. He notices it's the timing belt not going right and tells me to turn the car off. Right as I go to turn the car off the belt breaks causes a spark and the engine is about to shut down as I turn the ignition. The dad grabs the belt and it comes right off.

I'm about 30 miles from where it got fixed at this point. The car made it all of 70-80 miles. Another friend works for a tow truck company and says they can tow it to their mechanic for free and they can work on it Monday. My dad tells me I should call the schmuck who did the original work and see if he offers to pay for the tow down to his garage and to fix for free whatever is wrong with it and the lack of receipt shouldn't be a problem. Part of me doesn't want that guy ever touching my car again if he can't get my car to make it 100 miles after fixing it and to just eat the cost of having someone else do it right. What do? This is even assuming the original guy would even be willing to eat the cost of towing my car to bring it back which I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

"I didn't exactly have all day to be driving around in a car that sounded like the engine was going to explode on a work day to get opinions. Also, the place was recommended by a co worker who was going there for years so not like I blindly took it to Jim's garage.

"Yeah I'm sure I got taken for a ride on the price, but then wouldn't even bother me if the fucking car would have been fixed right. Also the guy said a water pump and a pulley broke as well.

"I have no idea what broke. Here is a pic I took of the timing belt afterward, looks new

"Another forum is telling me these do use chains, what I'm holding is a serpentine belt, and that I got completely swindled.

—-

Just. Wow. TL;DR, dude I know paid $800 for a serpentine belt installation, which later broke.

Do any of you know any mechanics that do a 2000% markup on parts? BECUASE I DO.

DISCUSSION (42)

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > TheBaron2112
11/10/2013 at 21:17

It's common for mechanics to do that, They know the average person can't change the serpentine belts easily, so they charge a lot for it.

FireSpittingV12 > TheBaron2112
11/10/2013 at 21:23

"Two, because I'd never own a Honda unless it was followed by the letters N, S, and X."

Ahem, S2000?

dogisbadob > TheBaron2112
11/10/2013 at 21:25

I thought the story was going to end up that there was an animal living under the hood!

TheBaron2112 > FireSpittingV12
11/10/2013 at 21:28

I'm not a roadster guy.

FireSpittingV12 > TheBaron2112
11/10/2013 at 21:29

Oh....understandable. I'm not fond of convertibles/roadster either but I'll make an exception for the S2000...and the F-Type....lol.

TheBaron2112 > FireSpittingV12
11/10/2013 at 21:33

Yeah, if it has a wooden steering wheel, then I'm down. And if I were going F-type, I'd wait on the coupe.

RotaryLover > TheBaron2112
11/10/2013 at 21:36

From the beginning I was like timing belt? Timing belt?? Timing belt?? Did I really see timing belt? And even if it actually was, how did the mechanic fix it so fast?? This is the reason why I try to be a honest mechanic and save money to SOME family members and friends, it's a mad world out there. At the same time...tools don't pay themselves, so yeah...I will take it out on people I don't like by, giving friendly prices at first and then boosting the price at the 3rd visit by saying that something is wrong with the turbo encabulator.

TheBaron2112 > RotaryLover
11/10/2013 at 21:40

Why was timing belt so out of the question?

lucky's pepper > TheBaron2112
11/10/2013 at 21:53

"start the car with the hood open. It makes the sound. He notices it's the timing belt not going right". If you can just pop the hood and SEE THE TIMING BELT (yeah, I know it's got a chain) me thinks you've got problems.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > TheBaron2112
11/10/2013 at 21:54

What does it being a Honda have to do with anything?

^decidedly not a Honda fanboy or apologist

RotaryLover > TheBaron2112
11/10/2013 at 21:59

Well, there's no timing belt in 2006+ models. As soon as I saw "He notices it's the timing belt not going right " I'm like...wait, how could he see that without opening the valve cover or which ever part that is covering the "timing belt". Timing belts/chain aren't exposed (unless you want some JDM timing belt eye candy).

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > TheBaron2112
11/10/2013 at 22:01

Took my Jag in for an inspection two years ago and half way through the mechanic cones and says "your fog light switch isn't working that's a fail" he then goes on about how Jag charges $350 for the switch (the whole light unit) and he then goes on about loubor etc... End of the day I was looking at a $500+ bill. This whole thing just doesn't seem right so I ask him to show me, he has this shit eating grin on his face and goes to show me.

What's the first thing you're taught when fixing cars? Replace the cheapest part first and then work your way up, so I check the fuse and what do you know it's blown. Yeah $0.50 fuse and this fuck stick wants to take me to the cleaners, so I put a spare in and the fog lights start working. Fucker wasn't smiling after that.

TheBaron2112 > RotaryLover
11/10/2013 at 22:08

Right. I didn't know they had chains until I did a little research. So yeah.

I promptly looked up my own engine. :P Ford 1.6L Ecoboost is indeed interference and does have a belt.

soto > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
11/10/2013 at 22:10

Please tell me you made a snide remark after.

RotaryLover > TheBaron2112
11/10/2013 at 22:11

It has a belt??? I'm shocked. I thought timing belt were a thing of the past and that everyone uses timing chains since it's much less maintenance.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > soto
11/10/2013 at 22:14

Told him "you always replace the cheapest part first" like he was a first year appy.

soto > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
11/10/2013 at 22:17

Good.

TheBaron2112 > RotaryLover
11/10/2013 at 22:23

The 1.0L ecoboost 3-cylinder has a belt in an oil sump to cut down on noise and friction. My 1.6 has a belt and the 2.0s have chains. So yeah.

But still, it's like a 150k mile belt.

That I will have done at 50k. :P

RotaryLover > TheBaron2112
11/10/2013 at 22:33

Man technology did improved a lot, even on belts.

Ferrero1911 > TheBaron2112
11/11/2013 at 00:58

Pretty sure an '08 Honda uses a timing chain that shouldn't need to be replaced. This guy needs to find a mechanic he can trust.

His Stigness > RotaryLover
11/11/2013 at 01:10

They're still using belts on smaller engines because it's much more efficient. This is possible in smaller engines because the relatively small amount of torque, that's why V engine still use chains because of the higher loads.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lucky's pepper
11/11/2013 at 08:43

Kinja'd!!!

Not to endorse the practice, but there are quite a few VW-related engines that people occasionally leave the cover off of.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
11/11/2013 at 08:45

Why in the shit would you have to have working fog lights to pass an annual inspection? Some kind of "if it has fog lights they must work" idiot clause?

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 09:00

Yeah, if there are factory fitted lights they need to work. It's retarded I know.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
11/11/2013 at 09:12

Does that include rear fogs as well, dare I ask? What if it was a grey-market or full-legal import car with rear fogs when the US-proper version didn't have them - would that make the inspectors head explode?

"No, my car doesn't have factory rear fogs. In fact, check your listings. The fact that it *does* have factory fog lights is unrelated to the fact that it doesn't."

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 09:15

Yeah, they were working.

You do pose a very good question, we should do it. FOR SCIENCE!

lucky's pepper > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
11/11/2013 at 09:29

Hmmm... that would really worry me. What if something gets up in there (some road debris, a rock) and gets lodged between gear and belt? Hopefully those VW engines are noninterference designs.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > lucky's pepper
11/11/2013 at 09:34

Some are, some aren't, I think it's pretty much a roll of the dice. That Porsche one, I think is non-interference, but I think some late 80s Golf versions *are* interference (friend of my dad almost lost an engine that way), and I know the related diesel (I had one) is interference. That cover is really a pile of cockamamie nuisance on a Mk.1 Golf, though.

RotaryLover > His Stigness
11/11/2013 at 19:14

Makes sense now. Thanks for the clarification.

His Stigness > RotaryLover
11/11/2013 at 20:26

Yeah no problem. I'm a mechanic also but I like to geek out on engineering stuff so I go more in depth than most techs do when learning about a product. I specialize in new Volkswagen’s so that's how I know about the timing belts. And because I work on Volkswagen’s I know only a fool goes by the suggested interval for them.

RotaryLover > His Stigness
11/11/2013 at 20:28

Sounds like the BMW lifetime transmission fluid. Ha!

His Stigness > RotaryLover
11/11/2013 at 20:35

Ahahahaha lifetime transmission fluid. It's just like Volkswagen’s new "lifetime timing belt." Lifetime in German actually means "one owner during the warranty period" in English. An I should know, I took German.

RotaryLover > His Stigness
11/11/2013 at 20:42

They got a lifetime timing belt??? Facepalm.

His Stigness > RotaryLover
11/11/2013 at 21:23

Lol yeah no kidding. But while VW says lifetime the experts translate it to 150,000 miles.

RotaryLover > His Stigness
11/12/2013 at 05:47

Still way too much...but hey, if the engine breaks during that time, they have no choice to change it right? Might as well follow the warranty.

His Stigness > RotaryLover
11/12/2013 at 15:33

They don't warranty it though. Volkswagen doesn't even give a mileage expectancy, they just said "lifetime" in the press release. But I'm sure in the service material it will tell you when to replace it.

RotaryLover > His Stigness
11/12/2013 at 17:04

I really hate it when they do this kind of lie before you buy the car...Not for me but for the ignorant ones that wont check the small lines before buying the car and gets blinded by the "lifetime" warranty because it's a big selling point of the car.

His Stigness > RotaryLover
11/12/2013 at 17:19

On parts thought when they say "lifetime" they don't mean in terms of warranty, they just mean there's no specific interval when you should change it. I think this puts more stress on the tech than the customer because they have no idea when things should be replaced. But it still does make things worse for the customer because they can be swindled easier. But on the flip side it makes it easier for the tech to get slapped with a fraud case because they have to provide proof that something needs to be changed. In the case of the timing belt you have to prove that it's either about to fail (see fraying or something) or list the manufacturers recommendation, and with "lifetime" things there is none. But if you don't recommend it because you can't do either of those things then the customer can blame you somehow.

RotaryLover > His Stigness
11/12/2013 at 17:31

Never happened to me, though. Usually I take pics as proof of why I'm changing the part or even show the part to the customer and explain him/her in detail why I have to change it.

His Stigness > RotaryLover
11/12/2013 at 18:02

Good idea. But I'm talking more in cases of the timing belt or the transmission fluid where you might recommend it as a preventative maintenance thing. If it's that case it's harder to prove to the BAR why you changed it.

RotaryLover > His Stigness
11/12/2013 at 18:06

Show them the fluid with metal particles or the color between his/her fluid and some from a brand new bottle. Timing belt...yeah it's kinda hard.

His Stigness > RotaryLover
11/13/2013 at 01:16

Yeah the fluid is easier, but the belt would be harder. From what I've heard the California BAR is pretty understanding and if I replaced a belt early as a precautionary measure and for whatever reason the customer got pissed and went to them I'm sure I could explain it to them. But if it's a customers car I wouldn't recommend replacing it until at least 100,000 miles, not unless I saw a problem, and in that case I wouldn't have to worry.