Went test driving this weekend.

"maximillious" (maximillious) 11/04/2013 at 12:51 • Filed to: None

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Due to recent car problems I have decided to see a trade in for a new vehicle... Something with a warantee and more reliability.

The two Cars I test drove in this order were.

2014 Focus ST.

2014 Scion FRS.

The Focus was unbelievably fun to drive. The handling was so sharp, they brakes stopped on a dime. The stock (not recaro) seats were SUPER comfy and the entire cabin felt so well laid out. The acceleration of the car was a blast as well. I almost started making wooshing noises as I pushed it. I managed to find a wonderful back country road to test out the handling. The car was a dream in the corners and felt like it was glued to the road. Overall I loved the ST. Only complaint was that they are doing what every auto maker does and shrouding the engine in plastic.

Then I went across the street to the toyota dealership.

Started looking at the row of FRS's. Young salesman walks out and explains to me the sticker price is the lowest they will go and that they dont want to waste either of our time with negotiation. I just laughed. Asked for a test drive, sales guy said he had to ride along (Ford threw us the ST keys and told me to take it for the day)

Started the drive and the Toyota guy is telling me where to go. I tell him I am going out to a nice road i found since I am comparing it to a car across the street... He reluctantly relents.

The FRS was fun, I pushed it a bit to get a feel for acceleration (underwhelming for sure)

Took it out to the winding road and handling was excellent but it didnt feel anywhere as precise as the ST. And the Brakes were definitely not as sharp as the ST. The car was alot of fun but between its deficiencies compared to the ST and its over all lack of space it definitely wasn't doin it for me. I will be honest, after all the hype about this car I was expecting A LOT more. Then I parked it and popped the hood and I was amazed. The engine compartment has no bullshit plastic and based on the engine layout I could easily do my own oil changes and minor maintenance without struggling through plastic shield after plastic shield. I see what you did there FRS and I like it.

I have a couple more cars to try out before a final decision, but I will say these two were a fun starting point and the cars to follow have an uphill battle.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 12:59

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Excellent choices.

Not having driven either, I would venture a guess that the summer-only tires on the ST versus the Prius tires in the FRS make a huge difference in steering response and overall handling feel.

Putting some stickier rubber on the FRS and it would probably be an even bet.

Also, while everything I've read about the ST leads one to believe it's truly incredible, I'd venture that on an Auto-X course, with equally grippy rubber on both cars the FRS would feel far more precise and easier to push harder.

That said, the ST is more practical day-to-day, has more interior room (you can terrify your friends 4 at a time), and is probably much more comfortable to live with.

Again, I haven't driven either, so I know nothing.

Nibby > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 12:59

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Did you get to dragon both of the cars at least?

Also, fun fact... my local Toyota dealer is across the street from a Honda dealer.

oldirtybootz > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 12:59

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Those were two I said I was going to look at but then I ended up trading my Focus on a Dart 1.4T 6MT at the dealership I work at.

Textured Soy Protein > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 13:01

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The FR-S probably doesn't feel as "sharp" because it comes with crap Prius tires to make it easier to break the rear end loose at lower speeds.

Having driven a Miata year-round with snow tires on it in the winter, yeah ok you can break the rear end loose easier with the snow tires on. But the super-sticky summer tires I ran for most of the year were way more fun.

The FR-S is a set of tires away from being a real sharp handling car.

maximillious > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/04/2013 at 13:02

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Yeah I think the tires might help a bit on the FRS handling. But with braking and acceleration it just falls way short of the ST. And I do understand there is 50hp and a turbo charger between them but I figured the FRS would have done a better job of putting you back in your seat. Before I drove it i didnt really understand why people were so hot on an STI version but now I completely understand.

maximillious > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2013 at 13:04

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Yeah I agree on the tires especially with the Summer Tires stock on the ST. BUT, I wasnt getting so crazy with the cars that I think there would have been a noticeable difference. It was more like the tactile feedback I got from the cars felt so much more responsive on the ST than the FRS. The FRS was a blast but because I had such high expectations after rave reviews everywhere I was just underwhelmed and left wanting something more.

maximillious > Nibby 11/04/2013 at 13:05

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I didnt get crazy with them but I took them out on this beautiful empty back country road that wove through some hils with very sharp switchbacks and some fun blind tuns They were both a blast to drive, if you get a chance get out and try them... they are great cars.

maximillious > oldirtybootz 11/04/2013 at 13:07

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I am thinking about checking out the Dart. I need to track down a dodge dealership as there wasnt one near the Ford and toyota. I am also going to see a WRX and Juke SV. Like I said they have a large uphill batter against the ST. It was a seriously amazing car.

CAR_IS_MI > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 13:10

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ST > FRS. IMO

What else are you looking at? (ive recently gone through the same process and may be able to lend some advice)

maximillious > CAR_IS_MI 11/04/2013 at 13:12

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Well the ST and FRS obviously, the Dodge Dart, WRX and the Nissan Juke so far. My plan is to buy new so that leaves out of a few auto makes because of the uninspired boring shit they are making *cough*honda*cough*

Textured Soy Protein > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 13:15

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The tires will definitely affect the tactile feedback you're talking about. Even just putzing around town.

On my Miata, I had super mushy Blizzak WS-60 snow tires to try to get the best possible snow traction for Wisconsin winters. The rest of the year I ran Hankook RS-2 summer tires which are like 1 step away from R compounds.

The feel of the brakes and steering were hugely different between those tires. With the RS-2s, turn-in was lightning quick, and I could pretty much stand on the brakes as hard as I wanted and never get the ABS to kick in. On the snow tires, the steering was wayyy lighter and turn-in feel wasn't even remotely close. I could get into the ABS with not too much brake pressure.

Same brakes, same steering, same alignment, driving around on regular roads. Gigantic difference.

maximillious > Textured Soy Protein 11/04/2013 at 13:17

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Well that is good to know. I am also in wisconsin so I will be facing some of the same winter challenges you are. I just keep my fingers cross for global warming ;)

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 13:19

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I both agree and disagree.

Yes, it could probably use some more power.

However, the FRS/BRZ isn't really meant to compare to the Focus ST. (I know enthusiasts are going to cross-shop them anyway) The Toyobarus are really meant to encourage the driver to manage their momentum through corners and wring the last possible hp out of the engine. Whereas the ST is designed to POWAAARRRR through the turns while those inside hold on in terror/excitement (excitementerror? terrorcitment?)

Both great cars, just different ideas of how to have fun.

maximillious > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/04/2013 at 13:28

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I think that you are very right. Terrorcitement was exactly what i felt as I powered through turns. It wasnt that I felt like it was trying to kill me in the same way a viper or TVR would... this was more like... the ST had a pillow and was gonna sneak up on me while I was sleeping and snuff me out... and i likes that alot. The FRS i never had that feeling, and to me it never put me on the edge of my seat. The FRS is like an action movie with the romantic aspect to it... whereas the ST is like the Expendables no bullshit no real story but they are gonna blow shit up alot and keep you wanting more awesome kills.

Its like the FRS is a .22 Long rifle and the ST is a .308 carbine.

oldirtybootz > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 13:53

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The Dart is anemic until the boost kicks in, but they're not selling well so there's probably plenty around for sale. For me, it's a cobsiderable step up from my 2010 Focus, but you'll probably still prefer the ST. The infotainment is great though, and I love the LED taillights.

What are you trading?

maximillious > oldirtybootz 11/04/2013 at 13:56

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Yeah i thought about all the add ons for the SVT but the Infotainment and Navigation is just not worth the money when I have a smartphone. I am trading in a 2002 Focus SVT. I bought it in April and it has been a giant pain in the ass and I just want something reliable and fast and fun.

Kailand09 > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 14:39

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glad to see a realistic review. You could say the FR-S needs new tires all day long, but then you're talking about modding up a car.

I'm excited to hear what you say about the WRX and juke.

maximillious > Kailand09 11/04/2013 at 14:49

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Im looking forward to those. I think that the WRX will be fun but I am anticipating a similar reaction to the FRS. I have always loved the WRX but I think my expectations are too high. The Juke is quite the opposite. I anticipate that it will be slower and less of a joy to drive, but going in with low expectations means it has a better chance to exceed them. We shall see.

Kailand09 > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 14:50

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Definitely on the WRX, when I'm in the market in a few years I'm not sure hwat I'll go for, and feel the WRX may not handle as I'd prefer.

maximillious > Kailand09 11/04/2013 at 14:55

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Thats my concern. Not to mention every year the WRX reviews get a little less loving. The Juke is cool but part of me hates it for how it looks, and the other part loves its so weird...the internal conflict is stressful. I have always loved the looks of the ST, and i take comfort in the fact that they arent going to update it for a bit. If I got a WRX of Nismo Juke now, The updates to both are already either in concept or have been announced in the case of the Nismo juke and I would just feel like I have yesterdays leftovers.

Kailand09 > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 15:35

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Yeah, I totally feel you on all those complaints. To be honest, I've read latest gen wrx is the best for a balance between daily and hoon driving.

In terms of the ST, I'm not a big guy but it still felt a little cramped. I'd have to sit in it again I guess. The seats were amazing though.

oldirtybootz > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 15:46

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I've always wanted an SVT Focus but I've heard they weren't exactly reliable. Sounds like the ST or maybe WRX are going to be closest to what you're looking for. For me, I'd probably go Fiesta ST over the Focus, but I'm more into handling than overall speed. The Dart was a nice step up in that regard though. Once the boost kicks in, it's a fun little car. It just needs new tires, the Kumho low rolling resistance tires it came with are garbage. They inspire absolutely zero confidence. I'd had Potenzas on my Focus at one point and I'd love to get a set for this but I have to swap the steelies out too so I'm holding off until after Christmas when I'll have money again.

And as far as the infotainment, I picked off the lot. I was moving cars around and I got into this particular Dart and it's an Aero (the model that's sole purpose wasto get Fiat more shares of Chrysler) with the 1.4T and 6MT, plus it had the LED racetrack taillights, Uconnect 8.4, and TFT instrument cluster. I'd been thinking about new cars, I was 5k miles away from being ouy of warranty, and I decided to pull the trigger on it since all yhe options added up to quite a nice little car.

maximillious > Kailand09 11/04/2013 at 16:32

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Yeah thats what alot of people say about the recaros. Im 6 foot and 170 lbs and i fell squeezed in those seats. I am not going to go for the recaros. Instead I am going to get stock (non power seats) and do a Recaro swap or a Sparco/bride swap on my driver seat. It will cost alot less and then I wont be forced to buy some stupid touch screen I wont use/want if I get the ST. Also i could put that money towards a nice tint job as well.

maximillious > oldirtybootz 11/04/2013 at 16:37

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Ahh yeah see buying it used would make more sense. For me to buy the '14 ST new. it would be an additional 2500$ for cloth/leather recaros and infotainment and an addition 2500 on that to go to full leather recaros and Navigation infotainment.

For me that is just not worth the price. My plan is to swap out the driver seat for something aftermarket and lighter weight than the recaros they use. Plus I hate all that electric shit they put in seats, to sound like my dad, just something else to break. Then I will use the leftover money to tint out the car (respectfully) and save the rest for any maintenance, blown tires, etc. etc.

Oh also I can use the money to slam it and put it on overstretch tires on 15 inch rims. God that would be donktacular. (I kid... I kid A LOT)

Kailand09 > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 17:02

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I agree. I'm not much different in build than you. I think the seats were a good snug on me though, not too tight but enough that I felt held in well. I kinda felt the back seats / cabin space / cargo space was more tight though than I prefer.

maximillious > Kailand09 11/04/2013 at 17:16

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Yeah the hold was good, but I think that the Leather seats especially bulked up the cabin and made space seem smaller. and I hate clutter on the console and dash to the extra screen and everything else that came with it was unnecessary.

oldirtybootz > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 18:21

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From what I've heard, I wouldn't pay more for Ford's infortainment. If I got an ST it would be with zero options. I was never big into infotainment shit until I got my car, but I liked the whole package of it. If I had built one to order, I'm not sure if I would have gotten the Uconnect, but I am glad my car has it.

Mine needs tints bad. Since I'm the detailer where I bought it, I had to do my Focus today for the used car lot and looking at it made me realize just how bad I need them. I had 35% tints on that with a 6inch tint bar, but I think I'll maybe do 25% and skip the tint bar. And "just something else to break" is my motto, like the air suspension or seat ventilation on Rams and other things like that. Manual seats are plenty fine in my book. At least I have the warranty to cover the infotainment shit and the TFT gauges god forbid the decide to crap out.

maximillious > oldirtybootz 11/04/2013 at 18:27

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Yeah i heard that Myford sync infonavitainmentdahfuqisit is complete shit so I dont care I dont have it. And with cheap seats I wont feel bad when my GF spills something and my dog gets hair all over it. just an excuse to buy the sparcos I want lol.

I am just excited to walk out to my garage and be stoked to drive again. I was that way with my 05 Civic SI that I loved, but every time I walked out to the SVT i just thought of whether or not another problem was going to happen on this drive. With a new car...that will not be the case.

I have been working the dealer of the ST pretty hard on price too. I know that the Focus ST sales are slowing A LOT because of the Fiesta ST and other factors. I am also 25 so I am flexxin my millenial nuts and taunting them with the Unicorn sale to an actual real life Millenial.

oldirtybootz > maximillious 11/04/2013 at 18:48

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That's one thing I love about the Dart. I find myself just wanting to drive it. It's my first stick shift and all day I just can't wait to drive it to get better at it. It's not that I didn't want to drive the Focus, my girlfriend and I would go for random drives every night, but the Dart is different. Not having to worry abiut something breaking and having to pay for it out of pocket is great too. I don't know how I used to drive all over the place in my beater 94 Altima.

And I'm 22, so I feel ya on the millenial thing. I feel like I could have gotten more money off, but this was my first time buying any car on my own, let alone going through the dealer experience. I made out alright though. It's a buy-right(rite?) financing program, so it's 59 montly payments of $336 and the 60th payment is a balloon payment of $6k. It keeps the price down on the payments and you can always finance the balloon if you don't just trade it in. I think they do it just to give you incentive to trade it in, but my plan is to keep it for maybe 2 years and then get a 6th gen Mustang when they're in their second year of production. So the car was $20k plus the $3k negative equity from my Focus with no money down and 2.9% apr. I paid $20k for the Focus 3 years ago, so $23 isn't bad considering it's more car.

maximillious > oldirtybootz 11/05/2013 at 10:17

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Damn yeah that isnt bad. For my situation I am writing a check and walking away with the car. I am one of those people who only has credit cards for the sky miles and I dont like to borrow money from pretty much anyone. I have been saving a while for my first new car and every previous used car I owned outright. (granted they were all under 10k) This will definitely be the largest expenditure I have ever made but I am really excited to have a new car that is My car. I imagine once my life is more stable down the road I will be more comfortable with leasing or financing because I wont have to worry about losing the car. But to me buying it outright completely means that it is my asset and I dont have to worry about missing payments and it vanishing. Considering how much I like to jump around and move that is a very big benefit for me.

oldirtybootz > maximillious 11/05/2013 at 12:16

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I have 3 credit cards plus my car loan. I have my Chase card, a Sleepys card that my gf and I biught a $1400 bed on and we're splitting the payments, and a Kay card I only used once that I still have about $300 to pay off on it. The Kay snd Sleepys cards have likd $4k limits, but my Chase card onky has a $700 limit so I can't get into too much trouble with it. My credit is excellent right now and that's what my goal was.

maximillious > oldirtybootz 11/05/2013 at 12:19

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Thats a good goal to have. You should keep try of cards that give massive sky mile bonuses. I am going to dever for 5 days from wisconsin... so far I have gotten to round trip business class flights and 5 days at an awesome rental property....for free because of travel mile bonuses.

oldirtybootz > maximillious 11/05/2013 at 12:22

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My Chase card has cash back, which is nic d becaude you forget about it for a while and then you have an extra $100+ to spend or roll into the bill. I don't do much traveling, but that would be nice for the trip to Disney World I eventually want to take.