It is time for a grand unified definition of a sports car.

"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
11/04/2013 at 10:35 • Filed to: None

From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary: a low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. has it covered so elegantly, it should be it.

All in favor?

DISCUSSION (41)

For Sweden > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 10:36

high-speed driving

Lotus Elan

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > For Sweden
11/04/2013 at 10:37

Speed is relative.

EL_ULY > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 10:37

-Manual Trans* :]

-Hard top**

* allow Paddle shift w/o full auto mode

**removable Targa tops valid

Kinja'd!!!

burglar can't heart click anything > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 10:38

That's a pin on a large grenade you've just pulled...

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > EL_ULY
11/04/2013 at 10:39

I agree with that statement, paddle shifters included as long as there is no automatic mode.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > burglar can't heart click anything
11/04/2013 at 10:40

It shouldn't be.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 10:43

Then a AWD 911 isn't a sports car? Also what defines lightweight? What defines simple? Is a C7 vette with all it's computers "simple"?

Arguing over definitions is dumb

Mattbob > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 10:43

no. Isn't a long distance race a sport? Is the noble passtime of motorsport not also enjoyed by those with a proclivity for front driven wheels? As far as the issue of weight is concerned, that is completely relative.

What about these fine cars?

-Honda Prelude: complex and fwd

-Lotus Elan: fwd

-GT-R: AWD, complex,

EL_ULY > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 10:44

Good point, added :]

For Sweden > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 10:44

It's measured in fixed units.

burglar can't heart click anything > For Sweden
11/04/2013 at 10:46

Fixed units relative to what reference point?

#trollin'

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK
11/04/2013 at 10:46

No an AWD 911 is a GT.

substantially less than the average car

Simple can be taken out, damn computers

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 10:48

So a GTR is also a GT car then? That doesn't make a ton of sense.

EL_ULY > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK
11/04/2013 at 10:50

Can be purchased in RWD, rear wheel bias in AWD unlike and EVO or TT

simple in a modern world. See. complexity/model year ratio :]

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Mattbob
11/04/2013 at 10:50

Long distance racing is a sport, but you are not comfortable. Front wheel drive cars that are fun to drive/race will require a separate term, we'll get to that later.

Not a sports car

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK
11/04/2013 at 10:52

Yes, makes perfect sense. It's even in the name.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 10:54

Deleted. I'm getting out of this argument because it's dumb. Carry on.

TheBaron2112 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 10:56

I just did 230 miles yesterday in my 944. Which is a small, 2 passenger car with quick response, easy maneuverability, relatively high speed, light weight, and RWD.

Long distance cruising therefore made it invalid as a sports car.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK
11/04/2013 at 10:57

The GTR is a GT.

You can comfortably drive a GTR long distances. And it has back seats.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > TheBaron2112
11/04/2013 at 10:59

Was it comfortable?

TheBaron2112 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 11:02

I mean, kinda. It's not a Cadillac or anything, but I would say it was MORE comfortable than my Fiesta ST.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > TheBaron2112
11/04/2013 at 11:03

So it falls into GT territory.

TheJWT > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 11:03

The way I see it, the "sports" part of sports car refers to motorsport. So any car which was designed to for motorsports above all else is a sports car. So to rustle some of your guys' jimmies, I could say that a muscle car with an auto can be considered a sports car, because drag racing is a form of motorsport.

TheBaron2112 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 11:06

Okay, I'm sorry. The Porsche 944 is NOT a GT car. You are incorrect.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > TheJWT
11/04/2013 at 11:07

If your going down the automatic muscle car route being made for drag racing,

Kinja'd!!!

There were cars built exclusively for drag racing, therefore, a drag racer, not a sports car.

TheJWT > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 11:10

Who says a drag racer can't be a sports car?

I see the term "Sports car" as a much broader term, not bound to one specific kind of car. Sure a Lotus is a sports car, but so is a Hemi Dart, Ferrari 430 Scuderia, and an Integra Type R

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > TheJWT
11/04/2013 at 11:14

I would not say drag racers are known for quick response, easy maneuverability. 43o Scuderia yes, Integra Type R fits in with a different as yet to be named category, which we will get to.

Kookanoodles > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 11:20

I wouldn't add RWD. There are great AWD and even FWD sports cars out there (yes I went there Oppo)

TheJWT > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 11:27

You're saying that all sports cars must be designed for just one type of motorsport; track racing. Drag racing, drifting, and off-road racing are all types of motorsport too, so why can't cars designed for these purposes be considered sports cars?

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > TheJWT
11/04/2013 at 11:29

I'm saying that they are not designated to one type of motor sport.

TheJWT > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 11:32

But you criticize drag cars for not having quick response and easy maneuverability, which are characteristics one would want in a track car.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > TheJWT
11/04/2013 at 11:34

Yes, you want that in a drag car. I'm saying sports cars are not to be limited to only one type of racing.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 11:38

I have been using a definition much like the Miriam webster definition, but more specific.

A dedicated performance car designed with little practicality compromise to the chassis, usually not platform shared with more practical vehicles, unless the chassis is highly modular and wheelbase can be modified, and track width isn't any wider than necessary for performance considerations.

Minimal excess weight due to minimal excess size or capacity, including not having excess wheelbase length included for rear seats,* or other practicality considerations built into the car.

Ideal, or ideal for the price point grade of suspension and braking componentry. Fully independent suspension required if built after the 1960s.

An engine that is well suited to power the vehicle to it's handling potential, without being so large to over-power the chassis too easily and un-balance the car, or to drastically affect the weight bias. A too powerful engine that makes the car difficult to drive with confidence and composure defeats performance for the driver, and tends to edge the vehicle toward muscle-car status.

Most coupes and convertibles of larger than minimal size fall into the Grand Touring, Muscle-car, and sport coupe categories, rather than dedicated 'sports car'

Any body style or chassis design that is adapted to perform better than the average vehicle can be considered a performance vehicle, including sport sedans, sport trucks, sport wagons, performance SUVs like Cayenne turbo, BMW X-M, or Jeep SRT8... etc... Performance vehicle is the overall umbrella.

*- if cursory rear seats can be fitted without requiring additional wheelbase, or additional weight to the structure of the car... if they can fit in there anyway, even when the car is ideally sized for it's mechanical structure, then rear seats may not be a definition breaker for being a sports car, Porsche 911 being the primary example. the classic 911 shape would not be any smaller or lighter for not having rear seats, it is already small and light enough to fit the definition of a sports car. The wheelbase is set for a sports car, and was actually increased in the 70's for performance and stability reasons, not for practicality. Arguably the larger 996, 997, and 991 generations may be pushing away from 'sports car' to 'grand touring' or 'sport coupe.' and leaving 'sports car' to the Boxster/Cayman 986, 987, and 981.

TheJWT > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 11:39

I think we're on two different wavelengths:) I'm saying the same thing, "sports car" is a blanket term for any car which is designed with motorsport in mind.

My grand unified definition of sports car is any car which is designed to be competitive in some type of motorsport.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
11/04/2013 at 11:41

You are an artist with words. Thank you.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > TheJWT
11/04/2013 at 11:44

How about we go with Performance car as an overall blanket like BoxerFanatic has said. From there we can branch out into more specific categories. You can have designated race cars, sports cars, GTs...

This is what I've been trying to get at.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 11:54

Thank you for the compliment

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 12:01

I see it as more of a spectrum, with 'sports car' at one end and 'GT' at the other. Both are designed to be fast, but they're designed to be fast at different things.

A true sports car is designed to be very quick over a given track/section of road. This is at the expense of comfort.

A true GT car is designed to be very quick over a long distance. For this, they need to be supremely comfortable so their pilots will be able to go on for as long as the car can.

A true sports car is something like an Elise or a 7. A true GT car is something like a Merc SL or a diesel A5. Most cars will fall in-between these two extremes, but overall I think it's a matter of compromise between comfort and outright speed.

TheJWT > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 12:01

I agree with that, but I still hold the opinion that all of the cars I've brought up are indeed sports cars. Maybe the thunderbolt is a race car, as its street-legality is debatable, but that's a different story.

Milky > Kookanoodles
11/04/2013 at 12:14

Worst kind of person.

Mattbob > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
11/04/2013 at 13:24

you are getting much more specific in your definition than I am prepared to care about. carry on.