Does PSA Peugeot-Citroen deserve to be Saved?

"Franzouse" (franzouseinchina)
11/06/2013 at 11:59 • Filed to: PSA, Peugeot, BusinessCase, Carpocalypse, Citroen

Struggling French car maker PSA Peugeot-Citroen is back on death watch with recent announcements that it was canceling its collaboration with GM on a small car AND the news that Dong Feng and the French government were thinking of getting a stake in the company to try and save. I've been wondering if it's even worth trying to save that company.

I grew up in a Peugeot household during the 80's and 90's and while I never had a Peugeot Poster in my room (I had old Grand Prix de Monaco replicas on my wall) Peugeot has always been my brand. I always viewed it as making durable, conservatively-styled, solid cars that just worked and drove well. Since people vote with their wallet, my family's fleet of cars includes a shit-green 1986 505 Break (2.5 turbo), a weird-green 1997 406 Break (3.0 V6), a 1987 205 Gti (not the 1.9 sadly) and a 1981 Citroen Mehari. Knock wood but none of these cars have given us any real trouble and to this day they are still a pleasure to drive, especially the torquey RWD 505.

My love for the brand and its history are therefore understandable and, like most fans I wish for the company to do well and to make crazy/awesome cars. Peugeot is failing on both fronts and that is just breaking my heart.

The diesel hatchback addiction

Mush like pre-financial-crash American manufacturers were addicted to large BoF SUVs and trucks, Peugeot has for years been addicted to small diesel Hatches, which, to their credit, were selling like hot cakes in Southern Europe. That strategy worked fine as long as the economy was good and enabled PSA to focus on its obsession, making GERMAN QUALITY cars (I'd bet that half the execs at PSA stay awake at night wondering how to replicate that deep German door thump). This kept PSA as a mid-size car maker selling mass-market cars on an ultra-mature market and inevitably, when that market crashed (and it is still crashing) Peugeot took a bath. Had they had a more diversified portfolio and access to more markets, they could have weathered the storm but that's not the only reason why Pug is in such deep sh*t; let's take a look at a few other reasons.

Peugeot: Fish-mouth edition

In the early 2000's, Peugeot had a relatively harmonious lineup with some conservatively styled cars and some lookers; the 306 Xr was one of the better looking cars of its time, IMO.

The 607 was good for its time and who could forget the Pininfarina designed 406 Coupe:

Then in a few years it went to this:

Or better/worst, this:

WTF Peugeot?

To be fair they're trying to right the ship now, and newer releases like 508 and 208 are rather pretty. Besides, it's just my taste and I may be the only one who feels that way.

Flacid International expansion

PSA's captive markets outside of Europe were mostly in Africa and that continent mostly took whatever it could so old station wagons and later old production lines were sold there but PSA never took that market seriously and as a result, most guys ther now would rather have a Toyota pickup than a 30 year old 504 wagon...

These are the BRICs: the group focused on Brazil and China but was slow footed and made big mistakes on both these markets. Citroen was in China before VW Group but due to poor strategy and planning they'll never be a big player there while VW literally owns China. I live in China and it's funny, I've asked the people I know who own a Pug or Cit why they'd bought it and the answer was always "because I couldn't afford an Audi/BMW/Mercedes"...

Iran: PSA had a decent gig there for years selling knock down kits and parts to Khodro; of course that went south when GM came into the story (more on that later).

So really, as a group, PSA missed the international train. It has a decent world footprint, but nothing that could hedge its position in western Europe and nothing that could give it the kind of volume it needs to be competitive as a mass market player.

Choose your friends wisely

When I learned a few years ago that PSA and BMW were going to be collaborating on engines, I thought it was the best news I could hear. Both these firms are family owned, they occupy segments that don't really compete, and for them to collaborate on engineering sounded just great. An optimist could have seen Pug getting back in the RWD sedan market and BMW could get a lot of FWD expertise as well as tips on low cost manufacturing. The first fruits of that relationship were small sporty petrol engines shared by Mini and Peugeot, and the future seemed bright.

Then one day I learned about GM buying 7% of PSA and a few months later it was announced that the BMW partnership would not be renewed. I have no hate for GM, in fact I root for US automakers but GM was the worst partner I could think of for PSA. That's like saying, no, I will not have any of this wonderful Bavarian beer, I'll have a Bud Light instead. Opel/Vauxhall is the same kind of limp-d*ck, middle of the road, car maker that has a lineup that puts people to sleep and a shoddy image (come on, OPC isn't fooling anyone), much like PSA nowadays...

To further matters, GM's participation meant that the morally-dubious cash-cow that is Iran was now out of the picture.

With these choices all my excitement for the future has been replaced by dread at what's to come next...

How about a bit of branding?

US readers might have a different perception of Peugeot and Citroen than people who have access to these cars in their domestic markets but here goes anyway.

Citroen, a part of PSA, has done much over the past few years to regain its exciting or at least quirky image. People like the brand and its new premium offering, the DS line (IMO a cynical attempt at using an iconic car to sell iPods) is doing quite well and offering the kinds of profits the group needs oh so badly. But it is truggling with its international image (thank you Beijing taxis).

Peugeot, however has a very muddled image. Its cars are quite expensive but resale is crap and as a result the people that Pug wants to sell cars to want to buy German. So it focuses its branding on quality (a reminder to everyone that they remain behind ze germans...), and sometimes on design, then on performance... No one knows what the brand stands for anymore and its recent troubles, unfortunate design decisions and quality issues have robbed it of most of its goodwill.

Another frustrating aspect of being a Pug fan is their concept-car policy. They consistently produce absolutely fantastic concepts (along with some super weird PCP/crack dream cars) that are either never reused or watered down so badly that they lose any impact.

In China, the brand stands for not-very-much. We French are not known for our engineering but for our design and luxury. You'd think they would try to capitalize on that but... no.

I once asked a PSA exec located in China why Pug wasn't pursuing a "family car" strategy instead; Chinese people cherish their children and worry about their safety and well being (I guess all humans do). Pug happens to have many ugly, un-sporty cross-over or MPV type vehicles that are great to haul a kid in, and quite comfortable. Throw in a high-spec particle filter to protect said babies against air pollution, add in a few cup holders, some stain-free fabric and voila, you can start selling 3008 and 5008 Baby edition cars and people will know that the Lion is their to protect you (ok, that's BS but I came up with it in 4 minutes). The exec was unimpressed (not a huge surprise) and told me that China's market was about capacity and not branding. Given the disappointing launch of the DS line last year I can't help but think that is not the case anymore...

So what?

Now that I've spilled all my bile about this subject and established -rather completely I think- all the aspects in which PSA failed the question remains: Does PSA Peugeot-Citroen deserve to be Saved? I wish it so, for both nationalistic and sentimental reasons -and the group's employees certainly deserve it too- but from a business case standpoint, it's gonna be a tough sell.

Tl:dr PSA made horrendous decisions and bet on the wrong markets but it's trying to turn itself around. Does it deserve help?

Tell me what you think!

DISCUSSION (43)

505Turbeaux > Franzouse
10/24/2013 at 08:46

I have 2 of them in the US, 505T break and a 504d Break. Besides a small faction of loyalists, Peugeot has been dead on these shores since the early 2000's. Too bad, but as you mentioned, the company gave up on it's values people came to expect of them, as did Citroen on the innovation side. I am sure they will survive in some form for some time. As long as they dont stop making pepper grinders!

Hoccy > Franzouse
10/24/2013 at 09:02

They deserve to be saved, but also reorganized. As you say their cars need a reputation that some people like. Citroen has this reputation, being innovative and a bit weird. Peugeot had that rugged and tough image back in the day, but now it's just cars for people that don't really care about cars.

Both of these manufacterers have a lot of models now, with a lot of different aspects and looks to them. People can't really spot a Peugeot in traffic the way they spot a Volvo or an Audi. They need an equivalent to the Fiat 500 or the first New Mini, a really good car, to restart the brand. Gain attention.

If they don't, I'll guess they'll just die like Saab and Rover/MG did.

Franzouse > 505Turbeaux
10/24/2013 at 09:05

US based Peugeot owners are a loyal bunch and in a way, they probably appreciate the brand more than Europeans.

I knew a Vietnamese guy in Seattle who had all kinds of Peugeot things including a moped (104Sport), a 404 sedan, some power tools and, as you mentioned, some grinders for pepper but also coffee.

Franzouse > Hoccy
10/24/2013 at 09:08

Agreed, and I'm afraid the 208 GTi won't accomplish that. There's hopes maybe with the Citroen DS line but that's not been really successful either.

duurtlang > Franzouse
11/06/2013 at 12:25

Does Peugeot/Citroën deserve to be saved? Had you asked me this question 2-3 years ago and when letting go of sentimental reasons I might've answered: No. But now, with their new lineup, the answer is a resounding YES.

On this site I've named ~2003-2012 the Peugeot Malaise Era before. From the great 106, 306 and 406 (I own a 406 coupe) to the meh 206, 307 and 407 and the horrible 207 and 308 (first gen) and those x00x things. But now there's the 508, the new 208 and the new 308. I've driven the new 308 recently, slightly after I'd driven a current-gen Opel Astra. The difference was enormous. The 308 is a far better car in, well, everything. Excluding rear head room. The Astra was utterly and ridiculously outclassed.

Peugeot/Citroën is on the right track in Europe. Poor management/strategy has let it down in the past, if they fix this and manage to stay alive until the crisis passes they'll be fine. They've got so much potential, much more so than an also-ran company like GM. It's the market beyond Europe that I'm not that knowledgeable about and it's that market where PSA will have to expand.

Your boy, BJR > Franzouse
11/06/2013 at 12:56

They need to break back into the U.S. market. I have money. I need to find a new daily by summer. I would 100% Buy a 208 GTi or DS3 if they sold them here.

AMC/Renauledge > Franzouse
11/06/2013 at 13:03

To me, PSA absolutely deserves to be saved.

However, they've been mismanaged for a long time. They've had two different brands that only competed with one another. How did they try to rectify that? They just decided to make Peugeot the upscale brand and Citroen the value leader.

Kinja'd!!!

Never mind that Citroen is far more famous for upscale cars than Peugeot. Cars like the Traction Avant, DS, SM, CX, XM, and recent C6 were always more visibly luxurious than what Peugeot had on offer at the time. Peugeot's cars have always been far, far more conservative.

Citroen's upscale potential was capitalized on when they launched the DS3, which was the first of a whole line of upscale cars. So Citroen was already pushing upmarket. But somehow, Peugeot was the brand chosen to move upscale, while it was announced that Citroen would continue to offer two sets of product lines...the C-line, which slots under Peugeot, and the DS line, which will compete with it.

WTF!

duurtlang > Your boy, BJR
11/06/2013 at 13:42

They should, but how do you suppose they do so? The US market, with all its direct and indirect protectionism, seems almost impenetrable without inside help (see: Fiat/Chrysler) or huge investments that won't be recouped in many, many years.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Franzouse
11/12/2013 at 13:27

I would love for Peugeot to be saved. I have a real soft-spot for the 505 and the 404, I've driven a couple of 106s (including a GTi) which were kickass little things, and I've driven in a 208 GTi on the track (which was really rather good too).

I know that the French are fiercely patriotic when it comes to the cars they buy. The European market is in a bit of a state at the moment, but if they survive until it picks back up I reckon they'll do alright.

Maybe it'll teach them to expand into some other markets.

seroquel > Franzouse
11/12/2013 at 18:21

PSA cars are solid? HAHAHAAHAHA good luck with that...

Mustang 'DontHitTheCrowd' GT > Franzouse
11/12/2013 at 18:22

In terms of that fish-mouth, I couldnt agree more.
I really have hated that style, and have seen more and more of it lately.

Kinja'd!!!

This one reminds me of a toilet instantly.

tebelivi > Franzouse
11/12/2013 at 18:25

Kinja'd!!!

The Renault Twingo 1984 was kind of cool!

Orfeas > Franzouse
11/12/2013 at 19:00

Anyone remembers the Top Gear's Best handling car award given to the Peugeot 106 Gti? I owned the s16 and i have to say it was very damn fast!
http://www.streetfire.net/video/old-top-…

mgold > Franzouse
11/12/2013 at 19:18

Of course it deserves to be saved. If not then we'll be forced to make fun of Chinese cars instead. Oh wait, we already do. Never mind. I say... let them eat cake!

Doctor-G-and-the-wagen > tebelivi
11/12/2013 at 19:53

Did they seriously just take an Espace and cut 75% of it out?

Superleggera > AMC/Renauledge
11/12/2013 at 21:21

So true, the only 'premium' things Peugeot make are pepper grinders...

WarchildSRT10 > Franzouse
11/12/2013 at 21:33

As the shameful former owner of a 307, i must say HELL NO!!

That brand new POS is the most unreliable thing that has been manufactured this century. I understand that spanish owners filed a huge lawsuit against peugeot.

Even Marcus Gronhnholm was "fed up" whith that car.

Franzouse > seroquel
11/12/2013 at 21:35

For years they had a reputation for durability.

Through the 70's and 80's, Pugs were known as land tanks, often finishing their lives at over a million km down in some sub-saharan country.

Newer Peugeots, not so much...

Franzouse > WarchildSRT10
11/12/2013 at 21:38

I agree that the 307 was just awful in every conceivable way. I once confronted an exec from the company about it and the bastard answered with the standard: "we ran benchmark tests and focus groups and found that we actually perform quite well..." blabla. To not see what a POS it was is utter madness.

That whole generation of executives who ran he program for those cars need to be shipped to DongFeng...

Obruni > Franzouse
11/12/2013 at 23:38

PSA has been trying to move Citroen upmarket with the DS line, while still turning out boring crap like the C4. expensive peugeots don't sell, and the firm has little to offer to compete with Dacia.

solution: kill the non-DS citroens, and more expensive Peugeots. turn Peugeot into a high volume, lower priced brand.

Franzouse > Obruni
11/13/2013 at 01:02

Not a bad plan, and I think they kind of get it with the launch of cars like the 301.

Pug is under huge pressure from France's socialist government to keep production lines open in France (one of the conditions for a Gov bailout is that PSA produce one million cars per year in France) and it is almost impossible to turn out a profit when you're making volume cars in a high-labor-cost economy.

That's part of why they're in such deep sh*t. The market doesn't want their expensive cars (because, frankly, they cannot compete with ze germans) and they can't afford to make their volume cars in France.

BATC42 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
11/13/2013 at 01:42

Believe me, we are everything BUT patriotic when it comes to car or everything else. However, car makers are now trying to use the patriotic rope to make us feel proud of buying a french made car. For example Peugeot rolled out a new advertising campaign with the made in France label.

Svend > Franzouse
11/13/2013 at 02:19

They won't close entirely. The french government will get pressured by their people to save the company at all cost. Sure Germany, Spain, etc... will tell them that there are certain things they can't or shouldn't do, but the French government under pressure from it's people will do it anyway and get a slap on the wrist and a fine from the European parliament, etc... the French will say okay, pay it but will untimately save face with it's people. The French are very much protectionist when it comes to their automotive industry like the Americans and the Germans. Britain and Europe on the whole as pretty much 'sink or swim' when it comes to these companies.

Franzouse > Svend
11/13/2013 at 02:33

Agreed. The socialists my countrymen (not me!) voted into power last year will never let it die. And in the process of "saving" it, they tell the markets "France doesn't play by the rules", which discourages normal companies from wanting to invest in France, then they'll put some new ENA (the French school of Vogon managment) drones in place and these guys will run the group further into the ground... until they're bailed out, once again, by their buddies in government.

You mention Britain; I appreciate their system and policies. Which is better, having an Indian-owned British car firm be very successful exporting UK-made cars, or a French-owned struggling firm building shit boxes in Slovenia?

/Sorry if I sound bitter about this.

Svend > Franzouse
11/13/2013 at 04:15

The correct system is 'tough love', but if companies are to manage effectively they need to know they can't just get bailed out when they do something wrong or fail to diversify to meet the current market. Sure many British companies have fell by the wayside for one reason or another and some have been taken over by other companies from other companies (I hate the whole American reasoning that Jaguar Land Rover is now Indian because the company, Tata, is Indian, by that reasoning Chrysler is Italian), but what would you rather have, no Jaguars or Jaguars being built but owned by a different parent company who have a vested interest in it's future. I can see why governments want to protect their markets but they can't go drying foul when someone else protects theirs.

e'll see what happens, but I have a feeling we both know the way it'll go.

Clubman > Franzouse
11/13/2013 at 05:52

No, unless they got things back on track.

Back in the day, a PSA was the car of choice if you wanted a cheap and cheerful hatchback.

Now they are a not so cheap, because Korean cars and cheaper. Even though, they try to compete with them, and if you look carefully to all of their cars, they are full of cost cutting measures, which make their cars look flimsy. Then there is the stupid big mouth. The 407 was moderately pretty car, but the cars that followed it were ugly.

And then there are the Hot Hatchbacks. I spent part of my childhood in the back of fast peugeouts and citroens, when I got my driver's license my dream cars were a Saxo and the 106, so much fun cars than even Clarkson awarded the best handling car to the last one, as Orfeas points out. They were the hot hatches to have, period.

But then the C2 VTS followed the Saxo VTS, the 207 RC the 206 RC and the 106 was discontinued. Those amazing lightweight hatchbacks gained 200 kg. They dropped the autodirectional rear axle that made their legendary handling and put a boring semi independent rear suspension. They were as fun to drive as a Kia.

So, please, PSA make better and more fun cars. The 208 GTi and the DS range is a good beggining, but you have to keep trying.

/rant

Franzouse > Clubman
11/13/2013 at 06:11

A friend of mine has a Saxo VTS, that thing is a beast. He stopped using it as a daily driver and now uses it for amateur rally racing, great fun for very little money.

What you are saying is sadly true. There is hardly any product differentiation for PSA cars anymore and while the smaller DS's (3 and 4, I hate the DS5) and the 208 GTi are better than the previous generations, they don't have whatever it is that made the earlier cars special.

Clubman > Franzouse
11/13/2013 at 06:27

The Saxo VTS is one of the best performance bargains you can have right now. Good for him.

Peugeot has said that there is a 208 R coming and we have also the 308 R in the works. They need halo cars to get their reputation back.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > BATC42
11/13/2013 at 06:33

Interesting. Maybe it's just the region we go to. 7/8ths of the cars we see are French. There's loads of them.

That sounds a lot like Britain to be honest. There's been a bit of an upturn in people marketing things as British-built, or maybe I'm just noticing it more.

vc-10 > Franzouse
11/13/2013 at 07:18

Hmm. My grandparents have had Peugeots (and more recently, Citroens) for decades. They had 404s in Tanzania when they were winning the East African Safari, and they bought them because they were winning the East African Safari. My grandfather currently drives a Xsara Picasso, as it's nice and high up and easy to get in and out of when you've got dodgy joints. They've never had a problem, but that Picasso is 2001 vintage, and, IMO, dates from when PSA made decent cars.

The 2000s have been PSA's malaise era. Things like the 308 have simply cemented them as being a car normally found doing 55mph in the centre lane of a motorway, with the blinker on and generally causing havoc. That or driving a steady 40mph along nice open 60mph roads, and also through 30mph restrictions in villages. With the blinker on. My parents had a Peugeot 807 for a while, and it was horrific. Everything broke, all the time.

The problem is, I'm not sure that the PSA I would like to save still exists. The company that built the 205, the CX, the 404 etc. Is there anything of that left?

vc-10 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
11/13/2013 at 07:20

Totally with you. When I've been in France, the vast majority of cars are PSA or Renault.

I think the uptick in 'built in Britain' started last year with the Jubilee and Olympics, possibly starting in 2011 with the Royal Wedding. Not that I'd buy a British-built car- none of the ones I'd want are anywhere near being affordable for a student (I'm not driving a fucking Micra)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > vc-10
11/13/2013 at 07:36

There's the 'it's-definitely-British' MG3...

We build a lot of Japanese cars here. Hondas and Nissans and the like, but there aren't many domestics left (and none at the low end). They all died off before we hit our automotive renaissance.

Personally, I'd go used and cheap with a student car. I'd thoroughly recommend a 106. Really fun little runabouts, with pretty much endless (and cheap) customisation options. Definitely a modern-day Mini.

Actually, the MINI is probably as close as you can get to a British built small affordable car. It's built here, and pretty much all of the engineering for it was done here as well. It's just been marketed as 'German engineering' to try and boost sales.

From what I understand, it started as two competing products, one at BMW and one at MG/Rover. BMW chose their option, got as far as attaching unfinished suspension to a chassis and then said 'we're out' and handed it over to MG/Rover. Oh, and they designed the engine too (MG/Rover wanted a supercharged K-Series).

K1ngSk1n > seroquel
11/13/2013 at 07:47

tell that to my 1.1L 106 on 126k

vc-10 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
11/13/2013 at 12:10

The MG3? Lol. I'd rather have the Micra. At least when I'm done with the Micra I could sell it on to some old biddy for some money, rather than pay someone to take it away.

I drove a 2002 Polo. My parents refused to let me have anything unsafe or unreliable. When I told them I couldn't afford something safe and reliable, the Polo turned up. Annoyingly my brother has now passed his driving test, and so he's got the car at the moment. I'm trying to persuade them that I need a car too, and I might be getting dad's old Mk.3 Golf estate, but that's a bit of a death trap (no ABS, one airbag). Especially as I'm going to need to get to placements in various hospitals around the northwest (I'm studying medicine in Manchester).

As fun as the 106 may be, it was on mum's list of cars I'm not allowed to drive. It didn't enjoy its trip to EuroNCAP. Seeing as they're providing the money, they get to call the shots.

The Minis aren't bad cars at all, but the space inside is crap. I row, and so I frequently a full car load, so the extra seat and the bigger boot of the Polo make a big difference. What I'd really like is one of the new Ibiza Ecomotive estates. Very efficient, lots of space for rowing clobber, and roof rails so I can put a boat on the top. Unfortunately I don't have a spare £10k...

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > vc-10
11/13/2013 at 12:39

What's the outlook on a Volvo 240 estate?

Technically it fulfills all of your parents criteria (plus being cheap) with the added bonus of being RWD and falls squarely* into the 'so uncool it's cool' category.

*pun intended

seroquel > Franzouse
11/13/2013 at 18:09

Ah the good times... These things just refuse to die. I want one.

Kinja'd!!!

vc-10 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
11/14/2013 at 12:07

I'd love one. Problem is filling it up with fuel. I'd really like something diesel and efficient. TBH it's most likely to be an older Polo TDI or something like that.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > vc-10
11/14/2013 at 12:25

Nah, I've done efficient :) scarily thirsty is much more fun.

A 240 won't be bad on fuel, but you're right. It won't be a Polo TDi.

Alex87f > Franzouse
11/25/2013 at 08:01

I grew up in a Peugeot household, and my first car was a base 206. My mother has a Citroën. I briefly owned a 206GTI as well. I truly wish all the best for this brand.

But gee, all they have come up with lately is utter crap. They had managed to give Citroën a bit of credibility on the premium segment, and then decided that oh, fuck it, we'll actually have Citoën develop cheap cars and Peugeot have the premium side. So now, they don't really know what they should do.

They missed the hybrid train as well, their only hybrids are over-rated, expensive pieces of junk with a ridiculous electric system and a gearbox that was crap 10 years ago. They invested so much in diesel that now that the market is starting to understand that petrol engines are actually an OK alternative, they have no real offering.

Every single decision they could take was taken badly, and they keep on going this way. Having a pretty car is nice, but truth it no one really wants to buy them anymore..

Alex87f > Franzouse
11/25/2013 at 08:01

I grew up in a Peugeot household, and my first car was a base 206. My mother has a Citroën. I briefly owned a 206GTI as well. I truly wish all the best for this brand.

Every single decision they could take was taken badly, and they keep on going this way. Having a pretty car is nice, but truth it no one really wants to buy them anymore..

BrunoJ > Franzouse
11/25/2013 at 17:48

I have a passion for Peugeot's because I started driving as a teenager in my dad's 505 GRD Diesel RWD wagon. Lots of torque inside that lazy low rev engine.

Kinja'd!!!

Later I discovered one of the most beautifully designed cars of all time, the 504 coupé by Pininfarina... it's dead gorgeous.

Kinja'd!!!

Also, Peugeot lend the mechanical base for the though offroad vehicles built in Portugal called UMM, first the Cournil and later the Alter. These vehicles have a dedicated fan base in Portugal, France and some African countries (mainly Portuguese former colonies). Those were the Portuguese made version of the Land Rover or the Toyota FJ.

Kinja'd!!!

In the present I only appreciate one model from Peugeot, which is the 508 RXH a AWD wagon with hybrid diesel and electric propsulsion. A great alternative to the Audi A4 Allroad.

Kinja'd!!!

... But on the other hand they have the 3008, which I simply HATE..

So I hope that Peugeot can regain their old image of hot rally hatches (205 GTi), good reliable diesel engines (504, 505 and UMM) and good design (the partnership with Pininfarina was always good).

BrunoJ > BrunoJ
12/04/2013 at 09:17

A very interesting article today on Auto News about the misfortunes of the PSA group
http://europe.autonews.com/article/201312…

ChickenMcBooty > Franzouse
06/25/2014 at 15:10

Peugeot-Citroen does deserve to be saved. I live in the US and so have no domestic access to French cars at all. My love for Peugeots and Citroens runs deep, from the iconic Peugeot 504/505s and Citroen DS19/21s, to the CXs that CXAuto used to import into the US in the mid 80's. In the early 90's Citroen hinted at a comeback with the XM but it never materialized and I was heartbroken, especially after getting into one at the NY auto show back then and salivating over this magnificent auto.

The original DS was as iconoclastic as any automobile has ever been. None of the cars in Citroen's current DS lineup are in the same category and thus do not deserve the badge IMHO. But as long as Peugeot-Citroen is alive, there's hope of a return to the US market. And for me that's reason enough.