Some morning car trouble with my coffee Continued

"maximillious" (maximillious) 10/30/2013 at 10:23 • Filed to: None

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Yesterday 10/29 morning I went down to my 2002 SVT Focus that was parked indoors. Got in and turned the key, the engine started to turn but I heard a very soft thud and then the engine wouldn't completely turn over. I tried again and could hear it trying but still not turning all the way over. I got out and opened the hood and I heard a very quiet bubbling sounds, as if an oil was draining from somewhere in the car. Went and got my GF to come down and try to start it while i stare blankly and confused at the engine. While she was attempting to start it while I watched I saw motion from the belts . Then i noticed the large mount of oil/coolant or something flowing from beneath the car to the nearby drain.

UPDATE::UPDATE:: 10/30 I tried a start test again. Still nothing. This time I watched closer and not in a morning stupor and noticed that there is motion in the engine when I try to start (belts moving etc.) Good sign.

The fluid is most certainly Coolant. (Ford Yellow) I checked the levels when I got home last night and it was completely empty. I then poured about a half gallon of water into the coolant tank to see if I could watch it flow out. The tank seemed to hold the water pretty well. While I waited I removed the spark plugs. All four were dry and showed no signs of any fluid contact.

Then I got back "under" the car as best I could and saw that a few new drops were on the floor. The consistency of these new puddles were mostly water. After shining a light around underneath for a while it looks like the leak (wherever it is coming from) is running down the Bell housing and dripping onto the floor from there.

I did some reading and saw that sometimes where the coolant flows into where the Oil filter is screwed on, those tubes can rust through. (i have no clue what that is called) I wasn't able to locate the filter and assembly because I don't have a lift and it is buried in the engine (thanks obama).

Casper > maximillious 10/30/2013 at 10:30

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Fun times. At least it's coolant and not oil. Did you try cranking the engine with the spark plugs removed? Was it able to turn? It seems strange you wouldn't be able to crank the engine due to a coolant leak unless you had coolant sitting on top of pistons hydrolocking the engine.

Guess you get to jack it up, do an oil change, coolant change, inspection, and have some fun.

505Turbeaux > Casper 10/30/2013 at 10:35

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I think he said he pulled the dipstick yesterday too and no water in there hydrolocking from the sump either.

maximillious > Casper 10/30/2013 at 10:35

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Yeah after the plugs were out I tried it out to make sure there was no gurgling. There was not. The (serpentine?) belt on the side of the engine did spin when the plugs were in. I seriously dont have a clue why the car wont start. My best guess from this point is that something on the engine broke.... and in the process caused the leak? It sucks because I dont really have a good place or the time to work on this car. Being that it is my DD I will likely be paying someone else to do this for me. I got a guy i trust so likely it will be him. I would just like to have it running enough to get it to his shop rather than tow it.

Casper > 505Turbeaux 10/30/2013 at 10:38

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This is when I would turn the thing by hand. The biggest issue here is why the engine can't move. Leaks can be fixed.

Casper > maximillious 10/30/2013 at 10:40

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This is really weird. I have no idea why a free spinning engine with no problems other than a coolant leak wouldn't start. Guess you get to go down the air/fuel/spark trail.

505Turbeaux > maximillious 10/30/2013 at 10:43

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you cant go on the belts driven by the crank. You need to pull the timing cover and make sure the toothed timing belt hasnt broke. that would send valves into your pistons and lock it up, and much more. It is pretty easy to sneak off to see

timateo81 > maximillious 10/30/2013 at 11:42

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here's how i would proceed (if you find major issue at any step return to interwebs for your next directions).

1) remove valve cover and ensure timing chain isn't borked.

2) with flashlight and with plugs removed, inspect each cylinder for busted valves or other physical damage.

3) with plugs out, turn motor over by hand (you may need google to figure this out) to ensure it still turns freely.

if 1-3 pass then you're likely not facing major motor damage.

4) check all of your coolant hoses in the engine bay to make sure one didn't burst or become disconnected.

5) replace coolant (again -google) - do whatever is necessary to ensure no air remains in system.

6) check engine oil and trans fluid quality and levels while you're at it. won't hurt anything.

7) replace spark plugs and put everything back in order. attempt to start the car. turn it off as soon as it starts. if it runs, you'll next want to do some more things to ensure that running the engine for any period of time doesn't cause damage to the engine (in case we missed something in 1-6) - so return to the interwebs for more advice. if it doesn't start, continue reading.

8) At this point start diagnosing the charging system. it's very possible you have 2 coincidental and unrelated problems here, one of which is a poor charging system. attempt to jump the battery and repeat step #7. if that doesn't work, return to interwebs.

BigRed03 > maximillious 10/30/2013 at 12:07

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The oil cooler and the bellhousing aren't nearby on these. If its dripping down the bellhousing, the t-stat housing is on that side of the engine. This is plastic and the most common failure is the inner sleeve for the o-ring fails and causes a leak OR its the o-ring for the plug on the housing itself (this hole was occupied by the temp sensor on euro ST170s, the Euro SVTf). It may also be one of the hoses from this housing that popped.

As to why it won't won't turn over? Suck, squirt, squish, bang. If the timing belt did pop, it's gon' be 'spensive...interference engine...You could also have your girlfriend turn the key while you look through the oil fill port on the valve cover. Cam lobes are visible and if they don't spin...

Are you sure the intake manifold is together? When mine popped it wouldn't start.

offroadkarter > maximillious 10/30/2013 at 14:46

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You didn't see any abnormal marks on the pistons did you?

Now I'm starting to fear for your engine

maximillious > offroadkarter 10/30/2013 at 14:56

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I didnt get that deep into the engine. I have a very limited understanding of mechanics, I can change the oil and most fluids and spark plugs but beyond that I turn to mechanics for the serious work. I have done everything I can to diagnose. An SVT expert advised me that i should check the intake manifold. Aparently it is quite common for that to fail and when it does it can either be a catastrophe or minor...he thinks my situation was minor because I dont have the manifold on the floor in a dozen pieces. As it stands I have done what I can. I am exercising my roadside assistance and sending the car to someone who knows what they are doing. This car has been a bit of a drama queen since I got it in april so I am going to fix it sell it and get back behind the wheel of a good honda/acura. If only i could track down another low miles EP3

offroadkarter > maximillious 10/30/2013 at 15:53

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thats the difference between an enthusiast car and an appliance, they need more attention

maximillious > offroadkarter 10/30/2013 at 16:16

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I would agree with that, but this is a For Focus, and despite the slight tuning that went into the engine I would expect it to carry on like a focus. I had the GS-R integra and the 05 SI civic, neither of which gave me as much trouble in their 6 years as the SVT has in the few short months i have had with it. Its a fun car, but it is by no means enough of an "enthusiast car" to have to put up with as many problems as I have with this. At this rate I might as well have bought an RX-7, Supra or e36