Spotted : Brand New M3 Coupe

"MtrRider Just Wants Doritos" (MtrRider) 10/29/2013 at 22:15 • Filed to: None

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Today I spotted what I'm sure will be my last brand new M3 coupe. It was black, with paper plates.

Manuél Ferrari > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 10/29/2013 at 22:28

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The death of the S65 engine saddens me greatly :(

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > Manuél Ferrari 10/29/2013 at 22:38

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That car signals the death of many things, including naturally aspirated M cars.

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > Manuél Ferrari 10/29/2013 at 22:42

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I wish BMW would offer a "performance" section like Chevy so we could buy Crate versions of some of their engines.

Just imagine being able to buy an S54, S85, S75, and dropping them in whatever you please.

On another note, I always thought the S65 should live on in a Z4M. It would make the rather dull Z4 much more exciting.

Manuél Ferrari > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 10/29/2013 at 22:43

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I try not to think about it :(

N/A revs are the best kind of revs

Manuél Ferrari > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 10/29/2013 at 22:47

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Is the NSA stealing your thoughts and implanting them in my head? I was literally thinking about the same topics about 2 hours ago.

The race car version of the Z4 is so amazing. There should be a street legal version. And crate engines need to happen

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > Manuél Ferrari 10/29/2013 at 22:49

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Either that, or we could shoehorn and S70/2 in that Z4. It should fit right?

(s70/2 is what I meant by s75 earlier. . . Derp)

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > Manuél Ferrari 10/29/2013 at 22:49

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Yes. Yes they are...

Manuél Ferrari > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 10/29/2013 at 22:52

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Anything can be made to fit with enough effort. Did you see the S85 shoehorned into the 1M? Insanity!

Manuél Ferrari > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 10/29/2013 at 22:58

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Funny my E90 was out of gas. We're talking about the death of N/A M engines and I get reminded why - they are always causing the car to need to do this:

Manuél Ferrari > Manuél Ferrari 10/29/2013 at 23:00

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Funny how I parked like a typical bmw asshat, lol. It's late and I'm tired and the station wasn't busy at all (and I didn't realize how far I was from the pump until after I was already out of the car)

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > Manuél Ferrari 10/29/2013 at 23:07

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Very, very nice! Sure looks thirsty. You even parked it like a BMW owner! (I jest-mostly)

What do you think of the new BMWs? Turbochargers, smaller engines, modified versions of common engines, fake engine noise?

Manuél Ferrari > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 10/29/2013 at 23:24

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Thanks! Haha no worries I wrote a second post making fun of myself for it too :D

I don't mind turbo charges engines for mainline cars. They have to find ways to conserve fuel due to gov regs. And it's not getting cheaper...

But fake engine noises and no more bespoke N/A M engines gives me a sad :(

It's not like the E9X M3 engine was related to the E9X 3.0 mill in the 328i and 335i. They could have kept that trend going

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > Manuél Ferrari 10/30/2013 at 00:18

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How do you like your E90 M3 as a daily driver?

I'm going to be graduating school in about a year and half and I really want to purchase a low-miler (<40k) then. Hopefully by then the prices will have dropped due to the release of the (god i hate saying it) M4.

Also, If you don't mind, what are the routine maintenance costs are like?

Gas costs won't be much of an issue, my current vehicle gets significantly worse gas mileage than the S65 to begin with.

Manuél Ferrari > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 10/30/2013 at 00:54

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I could write you a thesis on it and wouldn't mind doing so to help you with your future decision. It will just have to wait for another night when I'm not so tired, so I'll give you the summary now:

Love Car, for these reasons:
+Dat engine. It's really as good as advertised. I've driven two different F cars and the S65 totally feels like a German take on Italian N/A power. It's so good that it drowns out all faults. It's like having a girlfriend who has such a pretty face that you don't care if she's flaky and bitchy half the time.
+Have to mention the engine again because it's just that good. The common complaint about the engine is the "lack" of torque. I call BS on that. Who cares if it has less torque 6 cylinder engines with forced induction? It's got way more than enough to be comfortable on the street. It's worth it to give up some torque to get the revs and the sounds.
+Brakes. Absolutely love the brakes. Haven't tracked the car so just going off experience on the street. They are the best brakes I've ever experienced on the street. They are very grabby, which takes some getting used to, but once you're used to it you really appreciate how quickly the massive brakes stop the heavy car.
+Steering. The steering isn't as good as the E46. It's heavier and a little more numb. But at least it's hydraulic. It's still way better (IMO) than an electric power steering setup. I bought this car used after test driving a new F30 335i. I didn't like the new steering setup no matter what setting it was in.
+Love the interior. The E9X interior gets a lot of flak, but I'm not sure why. I happen to really like it whether the car is a 328i or an M3. And I really like some of the added leather surfaces in the M3 and the seats.
+iDrive. I know it sounds crazy, but I like the version of iDrive that shipped starting in I believe 2009. It takes some getting used to but once you know it well it's actually a pretty good system. I have sat radio and love it. The widescreen really makes it easy to see what you're doing when changing channels.

Here are my quibbles:
-Body roll. I have EDC and think the car has too much body roll even when in the stiffest setting. If you might track your car I recommend getting one without EDC. That way you save a little money on purchase price and don't feel bad about losing it when you mod the suspension to go with a stiffer setup. But if you won't be tracking the car then definitely go for one with EDC as it's very convenient on public roads.
-Size/weight. I do wish the car was a little smaller and lighter. The size and weight doesn't bother me on the street, but it would if I was going to track it.

So none of my quibbles impact your desire to use the car as a DD. I think it's the perfect high performance DD, as long as you can afford the gas. I used to have a long commute but I moved to a new spot 5 miles from my work this year. So the MPGs aren't a problem for me anymore.

Feel free to ask me any questions you may have.

Manuél Ferrari > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 10/30/2013 at 01:01

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Oh I forgot to answer your question on maintenance costs - I don't know yet because I've only had the car a year and it's still under free maintenance. I bought it with about 30,000 miles on it and I haven't hit 50K yet.

BKRM3 > Manuél Ferrari 10/30/2013 at 07:57

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To address your unknowns:
+brakes on track - great, change to high temp fluid, stainless lines and track pads; stock rotors and calipers are great, although I hear if you get fast enough you'll want cooling ducts to prolong pad life and, once that's not enough, a front BBK. Most people will never exceed the ability of the stock system.

+body roll with EDC - turner has an article on this. H&R race springs seemed to give them what they wanted. I only have 4 trackdays on my M so far but I have absolutely zero concern about the suspension dynamics at this juncture, especially since I added ground control camber/caster plates (-2.5 front, -2.0 rear, no additional NVH from the plates)

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 10/30/2013 at 17:47

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I'll chime in as well.

I got mine a year and a half ago with just under 40k miles on her, and just had my 60k service done.

I absolutely love my car as a daily, and agree with what rusto and BKR have said. It isn't a cheap car to run, so you just need to know that going in. I had several things taken care of under factory warranty the first 6 months, thankfully (most notably, the evaporator), and haven't had any issues since. I did pick up an aftermarket extended warranty for some peace of mind.

10k seems to be the sweet spot for oil changes (even though BMW's policy was 15k and many people will recommend 7500) and the oil for the S65 is priced like liquid gold - that alone makes oil changes much more expensive than a "normal" car, even if you DIY.

If you get a car like this, it's in your favor to learn how to do as much as possible yourself to save on labor. I'm still getting my nerve up to do more, so far I've just done simple things like the air filter and swapping wheels out.

For some reference on dealer costs, I just had an oil change, coolant flush, manual trans fluid change, and diff fluid change (I don't trust "lifetime" fluids) and my total was $850. That's... a lot of coin, but I'm planning to keep this car for a long time, so I look at it as an investment in the future.

If I haven't scared you off yet, let me reiterate that you will love this car. I've been able to get it to the track twice so far, and make time for long drives on weekends. It's just an incredible machine, and pretty much just always ties in directly to the automotive pleasure centers of my brain.

Every time I walk up to it, I think, "Damn, that's my car." Every time I drive it, I love it more. And every time I walk away from it, I'm tempted to look back...

Just make sure you're in the right place, financially, to buy and own the car before you go on a test drive, because once you drive it, you'll have to have it.

Manuél Ferrari > BKRM3 10/30/2013 at 18:07

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Great info, thanks! I love the brakes and that's great to know that they hold up well on track with some small mods. I've got a chance to drive a lot of cool cars recently and the E9X M3's brakes have been my favorite. While the grabbiness felt weird at first I now love it and don't like driving cars fast if they need a lot of pedal pressure to stop.

I will look up the article you referenced, thank you. I had incorrectly heard and assumed that the dampers would have to be swapped out to have a more aggressive suspension setup. That makes sense that EDC can be retained and other components can be modified/adjusted. Now that I know this the car seems even more perfect for mixed DD & track use. I really can't think of a better car for someone that wants his car to do it all, especially if there is no garage space for a second car.

This reminds me - I forgot to comment on another thing I love (the transmission). I'll post that to RevsBro now

Manuél Ferrari > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 10/30/2013 at 18:19

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I forgot another big plus:

+I love the transmission. I have the DCT and think it's awesome. I haven't driven an E9X M3 with the MT yet so I can't comment on it. But I can vouch for the DCT. I've read some negative comments about it before - some people think it's "too aggressive" and not as smooth as PDK. I really like it and don't find myself wishing the DCT was implemented by Porsche or Audi. In rare occasions it does feel a little high strung in low speed driving, but who cares. It's still pretty smooth overall and I like the short gear ratios that come with having 7 gears. The engine and transmission feel perfectly matches. Pulling the paddles when in M mode and flooring the gas is addicting. And the auto mode works well when commuting on the freeway - the car downshifts multiple gears for you when you need to accelerate hard to pass. The high-strung engine isn't taxing when commuting, it's a lot of fun to change gears whether done manually or automatically and the soundtrack you get is awesome.

I can't think of a better used car bargain than the E9X M3. You can already get them for pretty good prices, and they might be cheaper yet when you're ready to buy. I won't be trading in my car for the new model but I bet a bunch of people will be since a lot of people just have to have the newest version of everything...

BKRM3 > Manuél Ferrari 10/30/2013 at 19:04

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My best advice is to track it for the first time with ONLY high temp fluid and track pads. You'll just absolutely shit yourself when you realize how capable it is.

After that, buy yourself some track rubber. This is an apex arc-8 18x10 et 25 with a 265 AD08 on it. Do recommend, but think ill be going to 285 all around with the next set =)

Manuél Ferrari > BKRM3 10/30/2013 at 19:15

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Very nice! 285s all around will be nutty!

BKRM3 > Manuél Ferrari 10/30/2013 at 19:28

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I have a plan. NT-01s after that; R1s after that. Rcomps ftmfw!

Manuél Ferrari > BKRM3 10/30/2013 at 19:41

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Eventually it will look like this and you'll have to tow it to the track because it won't be street legal anymore :)

BKRM3 > Manuél Ferrari 10/30/2013 at 22:27

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Nah it just looks like this. =)

But god bless DTM. Incredible series. I really hope they bring it to the US! Who knows what racing is going to be like next year with that ALMS/Grand Am merger tomfoolery.

Manuél Ferrari > BKRM3 10/30/2013 at 22:36

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Looks nice! Do you have a post with details on your car? Would be cool to track your build.

Those DTM cars are so nasty. I know they're not related to the road car but they're still really cool. I wish that BMW had evolved the S65 engine instead of killing it. The P66 gets 500HP out of 4 liters, BMW probably could have evolved the S65 to produce 450 street legal HP.

It will be interesting to see what happens next year with the merger.

BKRM3 > Manuél Ferrari 10/30/2013 at 23:03

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Well BMW kinda did push some more horsepower with the GTS, albeit at 4.4L. In fact quite a few race shops are doing awesome strokers (all 20 grand of course). My friend had a supercharged E90 (active stage 2) but that was cheating I guess! I think BMW engineers would probably say it doesn't need further development since it already came from an F1 engine design lol.

Don't have a post on my car, just some pics here and there... I thought about doing a "Beginner's Guide to [Name of Track]" series for the different events I'm going to do next year. Havent seen anything like that around here! Maybe I should do one on my car and edit it as stuff changes. So much info on the bmw forums already I figured maybe I didn't have much to add...

Manuél Ferrari > BKRM3 10/30/2013 at 23:12

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I forgot about the GTS. They could have carried over that 4.4L mill to the new M3 with little or no power gains. The new car is supposed to be a bit lighter so it would have been a beast with that engine. I would take that in a heartbeat over the new 3.0L turbo.

That would be pretty cool to do a Beginner's Guide series! While there is so much info in the bimmer forums the cool thing about oppo is that a wide audience will get to see your info. More people need to know about how capable this car is. It seems like a lot (but not all) people think that the E46 M3 was the last good M3. The S54 engine was great but I don't think a bimmer has to have a straight 6 to be a great car. It's not like the E30 M3 had a straight 6...

BKRM3 > Manuél Ferrari 10/30/2013 at 23:32

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Well that's a solid point about the wider audience. Maybe I'll finally have to lean how to use all that kinja magic like...gasp..headings

Manuél Ferrari > BKRM3 10/30/2013 at 23:42

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Haha good luck. I still am not wise in the ways of the Kinja

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > Manuél Ferrari 10/31/2013 at 11:12

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Haha. You hit my biggest concern here. The only real dilemma i have is do I go with the 6MT or the DCT. I've driven both when I used to valet and I have to say I actually quite like the DCT.

However I've only driven an E90 6MT breifly and BMW MT's are my favorite manual gearbox.

Also, I have to agree with you, the S65 engine is addicting over 3k rpms.

Manuél Ferrari > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 10/31/2013 at 18:10

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You should ask BKRM3 which transmission he has. He tracks his car so would be interesting to get his perspective. The MTs in BMWs from the 80s and 90s are my favorite too. But I've barely driven any bimmers from the 2000s on that had an MT. BMW just doesn't sell many MTs so it's hard to find used cars for sale that have them and it's hard to find friends that have them. When I was looking for my E90 almost every used car I saw for sale had the DCT. If I had held out for an MT I would have had to wait for a while because I was looking for a 2010 or 2011 car in either blue or white, and I wanted it to have about 30,000 miles or less on it. Plus my other car was MT so I wanted to have one car with a DCT for the times I have to drive from OC to LA in rush hour traffic.

I'm really curious to know if the MT in the E9X feels as good as the MTs of old. I've read some comments from owners of E46 M3s who say the clutch pedal feels too light compared to the older cars. I have an E36 M3 with an MT and it felt perfect just like my old 94' 325is felt.

The bonus of the 7 speed DCT is that you can leave it in auto when the traffic conditions are changing from open to congested and always be over 3K RPMs when you need to accelerate hard. The second you apply the throttle a little heavier the car guessed how much oopmh you're going to need and downshifts 1, 2 or even 3 gears instantly. I'm constantly amazed by how well the computer guesses what to do. The engine being a bit high-strung is never a problem in traffic with the DCT because it can downshift multiple gears instantly. Because of this the car feels quicker in traffic than my Porsche 997 because I rarely downshift multiple gears on the 6MT if I only need the extra grunt for short while before settling back down into a cruise. In the Porsche I usually just leave it in 6th or maybe downshift into 5th momentarily while on the freeway. I never really think to take it down all the way to 4th or even 3rd when going 65MPH or over on the freeway. But the DCT on the M3 isn't shy about revving the piss out of the engine. If you mash the throttle on the freeway it will take you all the way down to 3rd and rocket you forward. It's pretty fun to get around people who are driving too slow in the fast lane :)