The Solstice is awesome.

"Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis" (Dwhite95) 10/29/2013 at 15:02 • Filed to: None

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Casper > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 10/29/2013 at 15:03

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No, it isn't. In order to prep that one there wasn't hardly any Solstice left. That was prepped off of the baby Corvette idea using a v8 and a lot of custom parts.

Milky > Casper 10/29/2013 at 15:13

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Counterpoint: 290hp small coupe, whats not to like?

Random Commenter > Casper 10/29/2013 at 15:14

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I guess you don't know that through certain Pontiac dealership you could order a Pontiac Solstice with a Mallett V8 conversion... The Solstice's kappa platform was easily capable of handling the power of a V8.

As someone who's driven a Solstice, I would agree, the Solstice is awesome. You might not like it, that's your opinion. That's fine, but just because you don't like it, and don't think it's awesome, doesn't mean it isn't. In the last few days as I've been talking with Pontiac enthusiasts, I've noticed many Solstice owners absolutely love their cars, and wouldn't trade them for anything. It's a great little car. If you ever get the chance to drive one, even a base model, I suggest you take it. Even the base model was a great little car.

Milky > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 10/29/2013 at 15:14

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Agreed

Casper > Milky 10/29/2013 at 15:19

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The fact it weighed over 3000lbs, and some serious suspension performance issues at the limit, were rare (less than 1,200?), and the cost.

There is already a car that does this and does it better.... it's the Miata. The Solstice GXP was the only one worth looking at and was only 160HP, over 3000lbs, and expensive for what you got. They put themselves against Miatas AND S2000s at the same time thanks to their price span, and couldn't compete with either.

Casper > Random Commenter 10/29/2013 at 15:22

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Ok? People love all kinds of cars... just look at people driving Prius' and Camrys.

I have also driven Solstices/Skys and had a very different take. They were heavy and slow to respond compared to Miatas, under powered compared to S2000s, and the GXP models added even more weight. The Coupe was the only good looking version, but they were extremely rare.

Just because there was a dealer option to improve the car, doesn't mean it makes sense. I don't know what the pricing was, but I would guess it was absurdly high and put it into a whole new competition group.

Random Commenter > Casper 10/29/2013 at 15:30

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Only 160 hp? Hate to break it to you, but you apparently don't know what you're talking about.

The base model Pontiac Solstice had 173 hp and 167 ft lbs of torque. The Solstice GXP had 260 hp and 260 ft. lbs of torque. Then if you added the GM Performance Package to the GXP, it had 290 hp, and 340 ft lbs of torque. Also, the Solstice GXP had a curb weight of 2,948 lbs, which isn't "over 3000lbs".

As someone who drove a base model, even the base model had enough power to be fairly quick, and handled quite well (the one I drove had the upgraded suspension package from the GXP). And if you look on youtube, there is a video of "The Drift King" himself comparing the Solstice to the Miata, and he liked the Solstice.

daender > Casper 10/29/2013 at 15:40

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The Solstice GXP was the only one worth looking at and was only 160HP, over 3000lbs, and expensive for what you got.

I'm sorry but that's incorrect. The ordinary Soltice/Sky made 173 hp, the GXP/Redline made 260-290hp depending on whether you got the dealer upgrades. Also, it weighed 2996 lbs ( US News Rankings and Reviews ), not over 3000. And for a time, the N/A Solstice was better than the NC and beat it at Solo Nationals in 2008 (C Stock Ladies), 2009 (C Stock), and 2011 (C Stock and Ladies). In fact, if you look at the SCCA Solo archives , you can see the Solstice was neck-and-neck with the Miata for several years in C Stock, and the GXP gave the S2k a run for its money in B Stock. Heck, it beat STI's in A Stock Ladies for first in 2007!

/Miata owner but respects the Solstice for what it is.

Casper > Random Commenter 10/29/2013 at 15:41

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That was a typo. It was 260 I was trying to type. You didn't catch it when you then typed it out multiple times?

We actually weighed the GXP we were racing, it was just a shade under 3100 lbs with fuel. The GXP was bragged at 5.5 0-60 and a quarter in around 14 depending on who you asked (we got a 13.9 out of one). Now, the S2000 we ran was about .2 seconds slower to 60 and 14 flat in the quarter (we got a 13.8 with hard launches).

My question would be this, what cars are you comparing it to? What have you driven to determine if it's good for its class? I have driven them compared to Miatas, MR2s, Zs, S2000s, and I even went back and compared a Sky to the FR-S for fun to see how they stacked up.

Casper > daender 10/29/2013 at 15:41

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That was a typo. Yeah, the GXPs in stock were OK, but they were never great. The subject was that they were awesome. At best they were OK. They never excelled at anything.

daender > Casper 10/29/2013 at 15:47

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Okay, I agree they weren't great (too heavy, wrong springs, why did they have to make a Pontiac version instead of just the Saturn) but at least give the Solstice's performance credit that it did compete with the Miata and won on occasion.

Milky > Casper 10/29/2013 at 15:48

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Well I drive a Crossfire which weighs just over 3000lbs and has less HP!! Also really expensive new for what it was. You gotta just hate the thing.

Casper > Milky 10/29/2013 at 16:04

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It's not about hate, just don't call it awesome. I have driven the Crossfires as well (and the SLK counterpart). They are ok, but they also knew they weren't going to be a full sports car. They have some nice luxury items a gadgets to point to the true nature. They are more like a Z3 than say a Solstice or Miata in my mind.

Casper > daender 10/29/2013 at 16:07

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True. I never saw any compete much, they always were far enough back in their classes that they were still just a novelty. It was a good try, but it was the wrong maker to make the attempt. Sadly the Sky was actually better looking when optioned out in my mind... which is from the cheapo budget GM line.

In order for the Solstice to be awesome, they would have needed a very specific goal. Either it was a sports car and going to be 2800lbs or less and have less emphasis on mileage than it did on grunt, or it was a midlife crisis car and needed to be marketed as such. Most of the people who like it are people who just haven't driven many competitors.

Milky > Casper 10/29/2013 at 16:28

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Everyone knows the Miata is "The BEST" but everyone can't drive one. Your "awesome" is clearly different than the OP's. Why can't the miata, soltice and s2000 all be awesome? They are to me.

Whenever I see any of the 3 I'm thinking 'bravo sir'.

Also - "weren't going to be a full sports car" .... Small RWD 2 seat coupe, that literally is a sports car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s…

PhiLOL (slowcarSLOW-MPGlol) > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 10/29/2013 at 16:52

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Correction: That Solistice is awesome. Let's not paint with broad strokes here.

Casper > Milky 10/29/2013 at 17:12

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It's not a purebred sports car, otherwise it would be woefully lacking against it's competition and Mercedes knew that. That's why it's more of a style piece than a sports car. Just because the car isn't as good at being a sports car as other cars doesn't make it bad, it just makes it a worse sports car.

They can't all 3 be awesome the same reason they all 3 can't be best. There is always a pecking order. If the list has only those 3 cars on it, the S2000 will be top, Miata second, Solstice third. It's not that the Solstice is terrible, but it's certainly not great. It's an average attempt at a sports car that had a lot of little mistakes and design flaws that the competition doesn't. The Solstice coupe was the best idea they had because it would have placed it out of direct competition with the S2000 and Miata by not being a drop top... but it had only what amounted to a 1 year run and only a few units sold. Barely qualifying as a production run.

Overall the Solstice/Sky was a learning experience for the company. It showed them them importance of a well rounded package and not just hitting 0-60 and 1/4 mile numbers. If they had been given more leeway and time to learn, it could very well have been improved to a real competitor.

Milky > Casper 10/29/2013 at 17:32

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I essentially want to argue everything you said. But I'll leave with ....

"They can't all 3 be awesome the same reason they all 3 can't be best" - Bullshit. Just as a concept thats flawed. All three big 'Merican trucks right now are in a word "awesome". You can prefer one or the other but its just a matter of opinion.

Which is what I'll say about this convo, were arguing opinions.

Casper > Milky 10/29/2013 at 17:35

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

adjective \o-sm\

: causing feelings of fear and wonder : causing feelings of awe

: extremely good

Random Commenter > Casper 10/29/2013 at 18:42

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About the 160 hp bit... It wouldn't be the first time I've seen someone be so wrong and think they were right, so forgive me.

And as for what cars I have driven to base my comparison on? Well, I drove my father's C5 Corvette... I'd say that's a good basis for a handling comparison... I've also driven a lot of other cars, but to be honest I don't feel like listing them all. Some other ones that I will mention are a 2002 Jaguar X-type (which in my opinion is an underrated car) and I also have driven a 2013 Scion FR-S.

You said that the Solstice had handling issues at the limit... Did it have the Sport Suspension? And also, try to remember it was a relatively new model, on a new platform... Of course it was going to have some kinks that needed to be ironed out... It's just that Pontiac was busy cleaning up shop, and then they got the ax, so they never got to perfect it. I'm sure that had Pontiac remained in operation, we'd have seen a second generation Solstice that had all of the kinks ironed out.

Casper > Random Commenter 10/29/2013 at 18:47

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Yes. The owner ended up jumping his autocross class just to get coilovers on the GXP I played with the most. It helped a lot, but he gave up on it and went S2000 like everyone else after not too long.

It's not that it was a terrible car. It just is a long way from "awesome", especially compared to it's competition. It had a lot of issues that needed to be worked out. Maybe with a few more generations or more freedom to make changes it really needed, they could have sorted it out. As it sat, it was mediocre.

Random Commenter > Casper 10/29/2013 at 18:59

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Well, I guess under those conditions the Solstice's suspension didn't cut it, but I don't know if Autocross was in mind when they designed the car...

Glad to hear that you don't think it was a terrible car, but when considering the previous 20 years of Pontiac models, can you at least agree that the Solstice was awesome for a Pontiac?

And about the last part of what you said... "a birdie in a tree" has informed me that the Kappa platform is not dead... Can't say much more than that right now, but we might see a "Solstice-like" car coming out of GM in the near future, and I'm sure those issues will be fixed, now that GM isn't dicking around... I'll be writing something about this when I gather some more info...

Casper > Random Commenter 10/29/2013 at 19:20

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Oh, it was an excellent Pontiac. It would have been even better if they had let designers go further with it. It's built on a decent platform, they just needed more experience building small sports cars. They marketed a mini-Corvette coming from the concepts... then they released a sub-par Miata.

I know the Kappa platform was actually very versatile and used in the European market. It just needed more weight reduction and more dialing. The engine wasn't the weak link, nor was the basic platform, it was the tuning of the package and materials.

Random Commenter > Casper 10/29/2013 at 19:29

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Well, I'm glad we could at least come to an agreement that it was an excellent Pontiac. And I'm sure that if and/or when the new Kappa based car comes out, those issues will be corrected. GM seems to be dedicated to making better cars now... They know that that is what the enthusiasts and consumers demand, and I imagine that they're not willing to take a chance on releasing a dud right now.

Casper > Random Commenter 10/29/2013 at 19:37

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I think getting beat down really helped shake up the status quo. They have the parts to make good cars, they just need the will and designers/engineers to do it. If they released a more aggressive looking "Solstice" with better quality control, better suspension, and knocked it down around 2800lbs... then gave it a GOOD 2.0t engine... they would be right there in the middle of the fray with the Genesis Coupe, Mustang, etc. The problem is they won't because then the Camaro becomes obsolete except in higher engine packages.

Random Commenter > Casper 10/29/2013 at 19:51

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"The problem is they won't because then the Camaro becomes obsolete except in higher engine packages."

All I'm going to say is... you might be wrong *wink*wink*... If you catch me.

Casper > Random Commenter 10/29/2013 at 20:09

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I do hope you prove me wrong. I have been waiting for something cool from GM for a long time. The new Vett is all well and good, but I want to see something NEW.