RANT: Getting your engine built for your daily, the right way......

"isocuda" (isocuda) 10/29/2013 at 12:28 • Filed to: RANT, Engine, Tuning, Fast, Cars, Money, advice

7

15

WARNING: Rants are long, fast paced, all over the place ventings of the author with little to no editing compared to usual content. (I'll have useful advice at the bottom of the page)

Nothing makes my blood boil faster than being at a car meet and hearing things like "drop in pistons", "Stage 2", "Now I make (insert higher manifold boost pressure here)", and "Yeah I only paid (insert obviously too cheap to be done right price)".

In today's economy, I understand that people want to save money, so do I. I also know that people want to upgrade the performance of their car before they even have an ounce of skill at handling the power they currently have. Therefore it should come as no surprise that the average tuner/consumer isn't well educated on how upping the performance of a car goes.

From what I've observed, most will bolt on as much as they can before even touching the cams or other internals. I've had people react as if replacing the camshafts or properly measuring out the internals is way beyond the scope of their build, like I'm an F1 engineer asking to rebuild their Focus sedan or something. A direct example of this is, despite my helpful remarks on how to do things properly and numerous offers to help out, I had a falling out with a friend who said, and I quote: "you make my ears bleed when you talk about cars, go join a Formula 1 team". Now, years later, after buying a bunch of stuff out of a parts catalog, blowing a motor, and going for an extreme slammed showcar stance look while also having a competitive drift car with a used engine, it isn't working out anywhere near the way he thought it would. He's finally started to change his opinions. His cousin and I are both perfectionist car nerds with an engineering mindset, and from what I'm told he's finally starting to see the forest for the trees. Better late than never, especially considering that he's in a position to make an awesome car.

This brings me to something that really pisses me off: shops that offer super budget friendly work. I've noticed a lot of so-called shops are doing quick in-and-out work. Basically they are cutting corners and offering lower rates to save the customer money, which they make up with volume of sales. Thus taking advantage of the average tuner mentality that bolt-ons are the best thing for street cars and anything that requires measuring is strictly for racecars.

I won't name any shops, but I've seen my fair share of hack jobs from using the same base tune on several similar cars to taking several weeks to drop some poorly matched pistons into an engine. This is in part, the fault of the culture. People like to talk about what they bought out of the catalog and react to advertizing of parts that offer X amount of power gain. It's sort of like the OEM's obsession with numbers and who is the fastest around the ring. In order to make a quick buck, shops have adapted to this by making things quick and easy. When the car breaks down everyone assumes the "well you can't warranty performance work" motto 1) because it's true and 2) because they think their build was already pushing the limits. Not so much, well it was in terms of reliability at least.....

This wouldn't happen as much if people knew how to put an engine together. Now I know some of you are probably thinking "Well Shaun, I don't know enough about that stuff to do it". I understand you might think that, but the truth is.....engines although complex,are very simple at the same time. I'm not saying that everyone HAS to build their own engine either. If people understood how things work and what kind of steps are needed to properly build an engine, there wouldn't be anywhere near as much bullshit service on the market these days.

One of my close friends is an example of what happens after a particularly bad experience. Despite my constant pressure to let me build his engine (for free mind you) he has gone to the local performance shop that specialises in his brand of car. Honestly they can do simple stuff, but for the most part they specialize in bullshit. Sure enough, problems keep cropping up. Now when I ask him to finally let me do it, his first response is "What if something goes wrong?". Starting to see how fucked up these things get? My friend is now a victim of the "What if's".

So you can accept the fact that a shop won't back up it's work, yet when it breaks down not long after and I ask to do it for free you turn around asking for a warranty? This is only made worse by the fact that people go where "everybody goes". The passionate builders who want to do things right get shrugged off for being too expensive when , in fact, they are usually perfectly fair given the fact they are NOT cutting corners. People have become used to getting subpar service to their vehicles, shit that wouldn't fly even in a stealership.

Then you get the guys who want to do unique stuff and the shops don't advise them that what they are making isn't going to work for their desired outcome. Part of running a shop is providing not only quality service, but quality ADVICE. In this industry the customer is rarely right or even remotely in the ball park a lot of times as far as daily driven tuners go (and some checkbook racers for that matter). Mainly this is because they are coming to a shop for something that they heard about and didn't research or fully understand. I'm not saying don't try new things with weird engine builds, but that's for people who have money to burn and other cars to drive. If something hasn't been done before or it's extremely rare, chances are there is a damn good reason for that.

I know a kid that bought a used engine and the first thing he did was get the valve covers painted in a funky wrinkle finish and slapped some parts on it before even running the motor. Blew the motor shortly after, bought another engine, had the valve covers painted again, and you guessed it, blew it apart AGAIN. This isn't meant to be an example of stupidity, more so an example of being too eager to have a "modified" car with trick parts and all this flashy bullshit. If people calmed the fuck down and did things the right way we wouldn't have these problems. Nobody takes into account that stock engines have millions of dollars of research and development put into them, you can't just start screwing with things assuming they are going to work the first time while doing everything you wanted it to do.

If you cannot clearly tell by now, it should be noted that I'm extremely frustrated and give some resemblance of a shit about other peoples cars. It's not my mission to make the world a perfect place, but I do want to help others out and see their projects go as well as possible. The current state of the industry and culture annoys me, although I can't complain too much because I did live through the Tokyo Drift era and didn't kill myself during such dark times. Now as scattered as this entire rant is, I do intend on doing more than complaining about things....

So if I'm going to get my panties in a bunch about this stuff, what advice would I have for people?

1.First off, before you do anything, research! Then research some more, rinse and repeat until you know exactly what you want to do like it's the back of your hand. (A good place to find information from novice to expert is !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ; their !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! are great resources for learning).

2. Find people and shops that have done similar work and talk to them about what you want to do. Just remember, you're not shopping around for service at this point, you're just seeking advice and information.

3. Do even more research, tapping into every resource you can find like scouring through numerous reviews and articles till your eyes bleed.

4. Pay attention to the old successful guys, they for the most part will give you the best advice compared to a young shop owner or any checkbook tuner. Outside of my own R&D, everything I've learned has been taught to me by people with more years of experience then I've been alive...

5. Shop around (if you plan on having done at a shop), get to know your local shops as well as their frequent customers. When asking about prices for a given service, make sure to ask them HOW they do their work. Shop A may measure and drop a close enough sized piston in while Shop B will hone, balance, and polish during the install. I'm also a stickler for paying attention to how well made a website is, how professional the staff are, and how CLEAN the shop is. I cannot stress this enough, so it'll be my sixth point...

6. How clean and orderly a shop is, is almost always a direct indicator of the work ethic and quality control of a shop. If this seems a little silly to you think about it like this..... Who is most likely to build exactly to spec and be a perfectionist about your engine? The shop with grease and grime all over place with tools left around, or the shop that is close to spotless with every tool having it's orderly place? There are exceptions to this rule when it comes to general repair, but as far as performance building goes, cleaner is better.

This is half of Kenny Conway's old shop, even being a one man team with all these cars crammed in the shop, I can say you could eat off the floors. His new shop is MASSIVE and it is wunderbar.

7. Try and make yourself reachable as much as possible when it comes to more complex work. Snags during a build are almost a given with any build, and staying in touch with your builder is paramount. Also, don't nag or pester them about progress if you've picked a good shop, just make sure they can get a hold of you when something comes up or if a change of plan is in order. Trust me, nothing puts a build on the sideline faster then not hearing from a customer after coming across an issue.

8. Lastly, it's good measure to give yourself a bit of breathing room financially whenever possible, because you will usually wind up slightly over budget during the course of an entire build. Make sure to continue relations with the shop after the build and follow the builders instructions to the T. If you don't and something breaks, most veteran builders will not only be able to see through bullshit, but also tell exactly what happened when they get under the hood.

The bottomline here is to know exactly WHAT you are getting and HOW it's going to be executed. If you take the time to figure out all the details and educate yourself, you will most likely have a very successful outcome. This will also help weed out the bullshit shops overtime. Running an honest quality shop is no small feat, and lesser shops either rise to the standards or collapse unless they have a steady stream of suckers lined up for service keeping them afloat. Don't be a sucker!

ddavidn > isocuda 10/29/2013 at 12:39

9

I pity the fool who bolts a supercharger on without considering the ramifications!

isocuda > ddavidn 10/29/2013 at 12:53

2

I read this comment in his voice and nearly spit my drink out.

ddavidn > isocuda 10/29/2013 at 12:57

1

Mission accomplished! Sucker!

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > isocuda 10/29/2013 at 13:05

0

Great advice man. Also, the reason why my first "parts" purchase for the engine rebuild I'm planning for the Tipo was a technical manual written by Guy Croft. At over 500 reais, it was expensive but well worth it. The first chapters explain the absolute basics of engine workings and tuning and all advice is given from over 20 years worth of experience building and tuning Lancia Tein Cam engines for Rally and circuit race cars. The next chapters are making my head spin with all the numbers, calculations and special tools and procedures you need to properly build a 200 hp Lancia engine that won't blow up.

DocWalt > isocuda 10/29/2013 at 13:21

1

It frankly amazes me that people find this stuff magical... I tell people I rebuilt my engine twice (the second failure was no fault of my own, mind you) and they're amazed. I'm currently building another engine, but to race specs, and doing all the measuring sure is tedious, but how else are you going to know it's right? Also, people keep telling me I should run huge cams and all sorts of high end race stuff for my autocross car... What's the point in having a powerband that's useless under 7k when I'm predominantly between 3 and 5k?

There's a few local people that piss me off... There's a guy with an E36 with an LS swap. He was LS3 swapped and was unsatisfied with the power, then bolted on a supercharger. It still ran like poop, so he now has an LS5 that still runs like poop. He has no idea what he's doing, but since his car is plastidipped matte green and he acts like a total badass he has a huge following of nutswingers. When he rolls into local car meets he has a posse of five or six cars following him in... Does he deserve any of the attention? Not in my opinion. I've seen the same stuff with other people that are slamming their cars and making them useless just so they have a big following. Lame.

isocuda > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 10/29/2013 at 13:24

0

It becomes "worth every penny" when you're in the middle of something and suddenly wonder what and if it has a specification. Even as a professional you need something as a point of reference.

Casper > isocuda 10/29/2013 at 13:24

1

Excellent advice. Too many people bolt parts onto their cars without thinking about all the other implications. This happens ALL THE TIME with turbo cars. People think they can just up the boost, change the turbo size, etc, and everything will magically be better. Then the engine blows and they blame the car. After all, that little engineer that spent several years working with a team to design all the parts to work together should have known some idiot would want to screw with it 20 years down the road.

Parts should all work together. I have a philosophy of picking every part before hand by how well it plays with others. I list them all out in a spreadsheet with multiple sizing options and set to work researching. Matching the cams to the turbo, to the head flow, to the exhaust, to the fuel system, etc. It does no good to bring more air in than you can fuel for or remove through the exhaust. It does no good to have aggressive cams that move the power band up the rpm range when the turbo's efficiency range ends only a few hundred rpms before the cams come in. Once all that is established, you have to consider the computer. Most basic computers are not going to allow you to tune a completely custom system properly. Trying to cheap out with a piggy back system rarely works out and the only responsible solution will be a standalone (besides, if you are $700 into a decent cheap option, why not just spend another $700 and get a good standalone?).

The next key is that you have to be patient. You generally can't just bolt parts on piece meal as you have money and have good things happen in the long term. Parts should be installed together and tuned for together. I you throw a bigger turbo on and up the boost without having proper fueling, the car won't care that you "plan" to do injectors later.

Yes, doing it right costs money, time, and requires patience. That "I want a bigger turbo" turned into $5,000 in parts very quickly, but if you don't have the money, you shouldn't be doing it. Likewise, if you don't care enough to learn about whys and hows then you have no business doing it. This applies not just to engines, but everything. Saving money on a paint job can come back to cost you just as much as an engine rebuild/replacement if you cut the wrong corners.

isocuda > DocWalt 10/29/2013 at 13:35

1

What I say to people is "If you pay attention, do your homework, and get your hands dirty you'll be fine", Now not everyone has the space to do all this and yes some very technical stuff is best left in the hands of professionals with the proper tooling, but outside of specific situations I'd say almost everything can be done at home. I forget who it was, but a Harvard professor said that given our need of transportation in today's world, everyone should understand how an internal combustion engine works. I agree because you should have a firm understanding of the machinery you rely on everyday and once you understand the jist of it, taking it apart is fairly straight forward in most cases.

I don't want to slam my buddy or his car too much whom I mentioned in the article, but it's the same thing. He is getting a lot of attention despite having poor panel fitment, terrible paint quality (Although I love the color), and a fairly unbalanced setup. Once it's sorted out though and brought up to proper standards it will probably be an amazing car haha.

505Turbeaux > isocuda 10/29/2013 at 13:51

0

truth right here.

BUT that fart can adds 25 horses yo!

pfftballer > isocuda 10/29/2013 at 14:10

0

When it comes to modifying your car for more power, there will always be a trade off in the reliability/longevity of the car. If you can't accept that, then you should just buy faster more powerful car from the factory.

Just4GP > isocuda 10/29/2013 at 15:39

0

For a rant, this is a very well though out argument for doing things right. Or maybe my head is spinning around in the same tornado yours is in. Great write up.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > pfftballer 10/29/2013 at 18:00

0

False. Completely false. How do you think the faster more powerful cars from the factory come to be? They're the simpler base models that have been upgraded over the years, but not without disregard for how everything works together and how they'll work together 50,000 miles down the road.

I have a 600-700hp car that started life as a 400hp (quick for its time) beauty. Ever single mod has been done with the implications that I would absolutely hit 100,000 miles in the car before I got rid of it if I ever did get rid of it. But, the point is, I drive the car. Sometimes every day of the month. Now not only does it make more power but its also more fuel efficient, rides smoother, and will be more reliable 50,000 miles down the road than the stock setup would ever dream of being. It can be done right but it just takes the idea of not striving power and instead striving for all-around bliss.

i-do-strange-things > isocuda 10/29/2013 at 18:37

1

You get a golden hammer from me for hitting the nail on the head. I'm an automotive machinist with 30 years experience. I've seen all kinds of mistakes -from users + other shops.

One other point to make: everything sucks. NOTHING is bolt on anymore. That intake manifold you're ready to drop on-how flat is it? Even more importiant-are the angles correct? (most likely not.) Bolt on cylinders heads? I've seen bad seats-tight guides-bad angles. And its not just the cheap stuff either. I've had mis-produced pistons from JE and Diamond.

The point I'm getting at is you need to check EVERYTHING. If you aren't capable of doing so, pay someone who can. And any shop that knocks out your motor lickity split surely isn't.

Great point about the budget. I've never seen a job that didn't have some form of "creep"-mainly because after the project gets started, the customer keeps finding more things they'd like—but still have the quoted price in mind. And if you get all the inards of your motor freshened up, everything else you bolt to the outside are going to have an effect. Change your water pump-replace your distributor gear etc. Any question bring your external parts to the builder + let them decide.

pfftballer > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. 10/29/2013 at 22:29

0

Yeah you had me until the "it makes more power and is more fuel efficient" lie. If you and your tuning goons could do that you'd be freaking billionaires. You asked rhetorically how faster more powerful cars from factory come to be, it's with millions of dollars spent on engineering. That's why those are the guys you go to if you want reliability with your more powerful car. You sir are chocked to the nuts with bullshit.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > pfftballer 10/30/2013 at 10:04

0

I tune my own car. Which means I have spent hours and days alone just perfecting the tune on my car. The only reason you say its impossible is because you, along with pretty much everyone else in the car community simply "thinks" its too difficult. It's not. It's really not. Some basic mechanical engineering, a little software to tune the car, and time will equal a car in the end that has just as good of a build quality as a factory showroom car does. But the problem is that 90% of you never try it yourself. You buy a car, want a bunch of stuff done to it, take it to a shop that charges you an arm and a leg, and then end up with a car that was built by some random Joe that doesn't care whether or not it drives like factory because it isn't his car. Tolerances are slightly off? Not his problem. Tune is slightly off? Not his problem. Compared to if you do it yourself, take your time, measure and torque everything to spec, research the parts your putting on, and lastly tune the car for how you want it to drive then you'd be surprised.

You're letting your doubt get the best of you, and therefor you think everyone else must be in the same boat or lying. As you clearly pointed out by calling me a liar. If you don't believe me you are more than welcome to come to Missouri and drive it.

I'll leave with a final point. If fast and reliable was so hard to build, race teams that aren't factory teams wouldn't exist. Which means WRC, NASCAR, NMRA, baja, any NASA or SCCA organization wouldn't have got off the ground. If all of those guys had to either leave the car stock or have a manufacturer build the car for them then we wouldn't have any of those racing venues. They all started as normal guys who took performance into their own hands, just like how Formula 1 and WRC began.