Fourza Epiphany

"Sn210" (sn210) 10/26/2013 at 15:03 • Filed to: None

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So I accidentally switched on "auto brake" when changing the difficulty for a race. It was incredibly frustrating and it took me three laps to figure out what was going on. I hope auto braking never becomes a real life driver assist. I don't mean adaptive cruise control or crash sensing technology, but like, the car senses you're traveling a little too fast for a corner so it applies the brakes for you. Or a GPS system that adjusts your car to speed limits. I can't imagine driving a real car like that. Sorry for the rant, and I hope I didn't give anyone nightmares... An M5 for your time

GhostZ > Sn210 10/26/2013 at 15:35

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"but like, the car senses you're traveling a little too fast for a corner so it applies the brakes for you. "

That's call torque vectoring with negative torque, and it's really effective. Systems that do that have been around since the GT-R, Evo, and (in its best form) the SLS Electric Drive. Some traction control systems can be contextualized as that as well.

Forza's system must just suck.

Dean > Sn210 10/26/2013 at 15:53

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My buddy plays with all the assists and A/T versus me with nothing on, full M/T with clutch. And he can't figure out why he can't beat me (unless I lock up the tires in a magnificent crash, which is not that infrequent). It's kinda funny, because he thinks he's a gearhead (he put HIDs on his Versa, yo!). Refuses to let me teach him stick, though.

Sn210 > GhostZ 10/26/2013 at 16:00

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In Forza, it's based on the map, so it tries to set you up before you take the corner. I know nothing about the real-world systems you're talking about, but I assume it's based on real-time feedback during a corner? That would be nice. The auto brake Forza assist just sucks the fun out of it.

Sn210 > Dean 10/26/2013 at 16:04

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That's hard core. A/T and ABS for me, but nothing else. Driving stick is easier for me in real life than in the game haha

GhostZ > Sn210 10/26/2013 at 16:06

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Yeah, those systems are based on sensors about speed, steering angle, throttle response, etc.

Basically, as you approach a corner with throttle, the computers read how the body rolls, throttle level, and the steering angle, so it can guess if the tires are going to spin or you're going to experience understeer. Then, it gently brakes the inside wheels and moves power to the wheels with the most grip and away from the wheels with the least grip. This lets the whole car corner far faster no matter what input you're giving it. The problem is that, especially with braking, it can be very difficult to get right and not cause serious problems.

Here's a great example of the SLS Electric Drive's system, which is an "ideal" version of it, if the mechanics were able to make the 4WD system brake and torque vector perfectly. Most cars are not as good as the drivetrain on the SLS, but the principle of torque vectoring remains the same.

davedave1111 > Sn210 10/26/2013 at 16:17

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As long as it only kicks in when you're going too fast for a corner, surely that's the same as saying that it only kicks in to prevent you crashing? I think I'd accept that. A little bit too fast into a corner is like a little bit pregnant.

exizeo - still loving fourza > Sn210 10/26/2013 at 16:22

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Switch clutch over to A.

A+B/A+X shift is so easy. I believe on the mile drag strip, a MT clutch beats an AT by nearly 5 car lengths.

That depends on car, though. And driver.

Sn210 > GhostZ 10/26/2013 at 16:25

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Wow. That's pretty amazing. That's not what's going on in Forza

BKRM3 > Sn210 10/26/2013 at 16:31

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Dudes! Add me on forza: ShoneBug970. I'm going to play in a little bit. I have a fanatec wheel and a pink Spark. Yeah, pretty serious. =)

Sn210 > exizeo - still loving fourza 10/26/2013 at 16:36

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Ok I just tried a MT, no clutch. LB/RB shifts suck so I'm going to try the setup you suggested.

Sn210 > BKRM3 10/26/2013 at 16:36

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Sorry, I'm too cheap for a gold account :(

exizeo - still loving fourza > Sn210 10/26/2013 at 16:39

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I use the first controller layout.

Only adjustment is the A clutch, and 0/100 deadzones. No ABS, STM, nothing. Only TCS for A class and up. Lower classes (especially FWD) need soem wheelspin to launch better from what I've seen.

BKRM3 > Sn210 10/26/2013 at 16:47

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...not sure if serious. $30 on eBay for a year...

BKRM3 > Sn210 10/26/2013 at 16:47

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How can you put a price on racing against a technopink spark!?

Bakkster, touring car driver > Sn210 10/26/2013 at 17:09

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Don't forget, when racing you're trying to take corners at the limit. On the street you should never be doing that.

The Forza system, like most driver aids of this sort, leaves additional margin below the potential of the car, anticipating the driver who needs auto brake won't be taking an optimal line and needs to be going slower so they don't fall off the track.

Sn210 > BKRM3 10/26/2013 at 17:09

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haha yeah i'm serious, but i didn't know it's only $30... maybe I'll get on that.

Sn210 > Bakkster, touring car driver 10/26/2013 at 17:13

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Of course I'm not taking 25 mph corners at 60 mph in real life, but I was just thinking what if one day there was just a driver assist that adjust your car's speed to an upcoming corner. For example, a local on ramp had some issues with trucks, so they set the speed limit to 20 mph. The ramp is about a mile long and no one does 20 on it. If that imaginary system sets your speed when it knows you're on that ramp? Or if you're about to take a 30 mph speed limit corner at 36 mph and it brakes for you. I don't think i'd enjoy that very much...

BKRM3 > Sn210 10/26/2013 at 17:20

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M$ is a ripoff. Always but a 12 mo membership on eBay. If you use someone highly rated who claims to email you the code instantly it always works. Mine is up now and I'm going to try to use the same seller as last year. I really think it was like $35 and Microsoft wants $60

Bakkster, touring car driver > Sn210 10/26/2013 at 22:53

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You're presuming the car would adjust based on speed limit, rather than what it felt was a safe speed for the conditions. And if it were based on speed limit, you wouldn't slow down any from the straights, because it wouldn't have let you go any faster there, either.