IS HE REV-MATCH DOWNSHIFTING INTO FIRST?! THAT SMOOTHLY?!

"Burrito de EJ25" (alexcarrillo01) 10/25/2013 at 01:19 • Filed to: None

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I've barely worked out downshifting into second!

Also, that exhaust sound is the most precious thing ever.

Manuél Ferrari > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 01:25

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I always wondered - is shifting into first while rolling safe if rev matched? Or still a bad idea?

Even if rev matched it creates such a high RPM ruckus that it just "feels" bad for the transmission.

webmonkees > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 01:30

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Strange camera approach. I expected Christopher Walken to show up.

Burrito de EJ25 > Manuél Ferrari 10/25/2013 at 01:34

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I can't get it. I can't match RPM speeds in first well enough that it's smooth. I tried it twice and profusely apologized to my car immediately thereafter.

The way this guy shifts into first looks just like he's casually rev-matching 6th to 5th.

Manuél Ferrari > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 01:35

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I can't either. I'm too scared to even try anymore. If I need to go to first I make sure to stop or slow to a near stop

FireSpittingV12 > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 02:08

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i test drove a Mini Cooper S and rev matching into first was easy....and smooth

lepie > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 02:41

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I can do that even in my wrangler. All it takes is some practice.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Manuél Ferrari 10/25/2013 at 02:57

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Way more gas than you think and it'll happen smoothly. Generally not worth the effort though.

Luken10 > Manuél Ferrari 10/25/2013 at 03:49

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I find double clutching makes the second to first downshift a lot smoother. Not sure why though.

Bullitt Ride > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 08:15

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That Quattroporte wasn't having any of it lol.

Jayhawk Jake > Manuél Ferrari 10/25/2013 at 08:17

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In my car, you can't be in first at less than 10 miles an hour or so.

It's so ridiculously short I hardly ever use it.

Kugelblitz > webmonkees 10/25/2013 at 08:23

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This was his Gomez Addams phase?

King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider > Manuél Ferrari 10/25/2013 at 08:45

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Typically it is unnecessary...it can be done, but to what end? At that low of a speed, just pop her in neutral.

While I've been known to use it in the real world for when I existing the highway or am coming to a green light turn, I rarely found value in rev matching when just driving around town (on a track is different, but even then you will never use first other than leaving the launch or pit lanes). The beauty of a manual transmission is that it gives you the freedom to not only shift whenever you want but also to NOT shift whenever you want.

Chteelers > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 08:58

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Yawn, this is easy.

(My 370Z makes me look like a f-ing badass. RevMatch FTW.)

davedave1111 > Manuél Ferrari 10/25/2013 at 09:11

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If you rev-match correctly, it's not damaging your transmission - but there's no reason to go into first whilst the car is still rolling, so it doesn't matter. First is only for setting off from stationary; you can take off in second from a crawl.

Burrito de EJ25 > Chteelers 10/25/2013 at 09:12

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Cheater!

Chteelers > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 09:16

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Better than an automatic! At least I'm still a true enthusiast.

Burrito de EJ25 > Bullitt Ride 10/25/2013 at 09:16

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Not so fast, cugino (cousin)!

wkiernan > Manuél Ferrari 10/25/2013 at 09:16

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I do it all the time in stop-n-go traffic on the Interstate, but only when I'm getting down to speeds so low that even in first the engine is turning at idle speed.

Bullitt Ride > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 09:49

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Capisco amico!

NickDavisGB > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 09:54

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The trick is to not fully engage the clutch. Slip it a little bit until the wheels and the engine are rolling together. Then allow the clutch to fully engage.

You don't need to blip the throttle, you don't even need a clutch to down (or up) change. Treat the pedals as progressive, not as on/off buttons.

First is always the hardest to do it in because most gearboxes don't have syncromesh on that gear.

DoctorNine > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 09:57

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This is the perfect car to learn to drive like a stick in. Great vid. Love it!

Casper > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 10:40

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Yes. It's really not that hard in most cars that are somewhat sporty and have healthy transmissions/clutches. In my S2000 you could drop 3rd to 1st easily for autocross hair pins. Just clutch, blip, grab the gear, go. I had to do it pretty much every autocross multiple times. That transmission is great for it.

On a side note, this must be the hipster version of the big diesel trucks with no exhaust. Driving around everywhere stomping on it just to hear their own exhaust.

Casper > NickDavisGB 10/25/2013 at 10:45

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It's a lot easier to just blip the throttle so that you can catch the engine on down rev rather than overcoming it's rotating assemblies inertia to spin it up. On most aggressive changes if you did it in a hurry without bringing the engine up to speed you will just chirp the tires or induce an oversteer through a hair pin.

The smaller the engine/more freely spinning the mass, the easier it will be to do without rev matching... but it still puts more load on the drivetrain than not.

sfmikee > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 11:41

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Yep, first is a tough one.

Textured Soy Protein > Manuél Ferrari 10/25/2013 at 11:46

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The only difference between first and the other gears is that first generally doesn't have syncros on it so you have to be more careful with your rev matching.

So downshifting into first is only bad if you grind the gears by not properly rev-matching.

When I had manual transmission cars and I was stuck in Chicago traffic visiting my family there, I would downshift into first with rev matching semi-frequently. Nothing inherently wrong with it.

Philbert/Phartnagle > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 12:13

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Sure he is.

It's very easy to do, just blip the throttle and ease the clutch out and let it smoothly engage. Don't pop the clutch out or it will just jerk and rev the engine if the car is moving too fast or make it "herky jerky" if the car is moving to slow.

Upshifting you just mat the throttle and make a stab at the clutch while slamming the shifter into the next higher gear. Oh yeah, if you "miss" a gear doing that, be sure to let off the throttle. ;)

NaturallyAspirated > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 12:20

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I could do rev-matched downshifts into first in my Miata, by in my Subaru it is really difficult to do smoothly.

Manuél Ferrari > Textured Soy Protein 10/25/2013 at 12:23

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Thanks for the nugget of knowledge!

Burrito de EJ25 > NaturallyAspirated 10/25/2013 at 12:29

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Is it the AWD that makes it difficult? I also drive a Subie.

Manuél Ferrari > wkiernan 10/25/2013 at 12:29

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Yeah that's the only time I do it as well. I don't really try to rev match and shift into first when rolling faster than that

Manuél Ferrari > davedave1111 10/25/2013 at 12:31

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Yeah that's what I do, was just always curious if it was bad for the car to shift into first while rolling

Manuél Ferrari > Luken10 10/25/2013 at 12:33

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Interesting. I should try that.

Sometimes I have to do that even when fully stopped. My transmission can be finicky and not want to go into first sometimes. It doesn't happen often and there isn't any rhyme or reason to when it happens.

Manuél Ferrari > King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider 10/25/2013 at 12:38

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That's very true. The other beauty is that you always know what gear you're shifting into. One problem with paddle shift transmissions is you can lose track of what gear you're in an downshift one more gear than intended. With a stick once you memorize the pattern that never happens.

NaturallyAspirated > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 12:39

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I think it's just the design of the transmission.

davedave1111 > Manuél Ferrari 10/25/2013 at 12:39

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Only if you mess it up :)

NickDavisGB > Casper 10/25/2013 at 12:59

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Correct, blipping the throttle and slipping the clutch will equalise the inertia throughout the entire power train. Allowing the gear change to be completed smoothly, thus decreasing the chance of the potential energy stored in the vehicle to get out of hand.

This is the same physics as dipping your clutch when you go over a speed bump. It allows the wheels and flywheel to rotate at different rates when the wheels go over the hump and the suspension compresses.

However, if you're not racing it is not necessary. Try changing from 3rd to 4th (assuming with your gate pattern that this is a straight throw, and it's the easiest) without the clutch by judging the engine flywheel revs with the wheels road revs and applying a little pressure to the gear lever. When they are synchronised the lever will slip through the gate and select 4th without any trouble. It feels odd at first but you'll get the feel for your car and box.

Then try going from 4th to 3rd. You'll find it happens at about the same speed.

Casper > NickDavisGB 10/25/2013 at 13:06

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That would completely depend on how fast you are trying to complete the transition. 3rd to 4th will be a decrease in RPMs, so if you are doing so quickly, it will have the benefit of the inertia. If you move 4th to 3rd quickly, you will be bringing the revs up and fighting the weight.

I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just saying it's adding a unnecessary force on the drivetrain and limits how quickly you can complete it without issue. I'm saying it's very dependent on how heavy the rotating assembly and how quickly you are trying to change rotation speed as well as transmission type.

Raymax > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 14:47

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Dat Quattroporte...

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 15:36

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I would have changed my mind and made a left at 1:22.

SubiSanchez > Burrito de EJ25 10/25/2013 at 17:14

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Boy I'd like to get my hands on that Fiat Abarth

Pure87 > Manuél Ferrari 10/25/2013 at 19:19

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It can be done if you are travelling slowly enough. That said, I only do it if I'm in really heavy traffic or I'm moving too slowly to drive in second without feeling like it's putting a strain on the engine.

Manuél Ferrari > Pure87 10/25/2013 at 19:29

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That's what I do too. I feel like really bad stop and go traffic is hard on the car no matter what. If you keep it in second when rolling at very low speeds you have to ride the clutch to keep the car from stalling or being jerky. But if you rev match down into first when rolling a little too fast you rev the engine higher than you wanted to.

It also seems dependent on the car. Some cars seem setup in a way that lets you shift into first smoothly if rolling at a low speed. Other cars need to be literally stopped or very close to stopped or shifting into first will create a problem even when rev matched. My old E30 318i wanted to be stopped or very close to a stop before you could engage first. But the Porsches I've driven seem a little more forgiving about shifting into first when rolling at a slow speed.