How to Sell an Illegal Skyline in the US

"Bird" (Bird)
10/17/2013 at 12:50 • Filed to: Illegal Skyline

I previously posted an example of a legal R33 on ebay. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is an example of an illegal car. No mention of bond release, or who or how the car was imported. In fact seller claims ignorance of how the car was imported. You'll see he claims it's legal because it's been issued a 17 digit VIN, and has been titled in multiple states, multiple times. These facts do not make the car legal. Even if the car was inspected by State Police, and issued that 17 digit VIN. Federally that car is illegal unless it has bond release paperwork from customs. Basically somebody's dumping their illegal R32 before the legal ones make his worthless in a couple months. Caveat emptor.

Quoted text from ad:

Selling a 1991 Nissan Skyline GTS-T R32. Has 63k km on the body (39k miles). Has a r33 skyline swap (RB25-DET and 5spd manual) that had 45km (28k miles) on it. Clutch was done as well, stock. Starts first time every time, looks factory, idles great, doesn't smoke, doesn't sputter or cough, it pulls hard and runs like its suppose to. There are no grinds, pop outs, etc. It has a 3" exhaust. The car was repainted in September 2012, R34 Bayside Blue (spent just under 9k on paint, weatherstripping, and GT-R parts). It has the GT-R front bumper, GT-R front turn signals, and GT-R wing. It has XXR 17" wheels with BRAND NEW rear tires and newer front tires. Interior is in great shape as well. The ONLY issues to this car, the tint should be redone, and the passenger window switch should be replaced (it works when it wants to). Now, the car has a FULL 17-digit VIN. It was imported legally, has been titled more than once in more than one state, has insurance, etc. etc. etc. Even have an autocheck report in hand for the car. This car is in great shape and runs flawlessly. The car just got back from a 700 miles trip, its more than roadworthy. $15,500 cash price or $22k trade value. If you want to find a cheaper one with only a bill of sale, be my guest. If you want a bad ass R32 with ALL the hard work done (and done correctly), so you can turn the key and go, this is it. Show ready. Call or text 414 three 3 six four 30four, do not email me, will not respond. Also, will not answer any questions about how to import these cars, didn't do it and don't have any information for you. Have your cash in hand before contacting me, don't waste my time or yours. Real seller, with a real car, with a real title in hand.

DISCUSSION (34)

maximillious > Bird
10/17/2013 at 12:51

This one has been for sale in Chicago for a LOOOONG time. No one is taking the bait. He has had this posted on and off for about a year on craigslist.

Bird > maximillious
10/17/2013 at 12:53

I'm glad to hear that. He's a scumbag for trying to pass that car off on somebody.

dieselwagon > Bird
10/17/2013 at 12:56

The difference between state and federal laws are great for obfuscation.

It does boggle my mind that in the US you can drive between the states and even to different towns within the same state, and the laws will change, and you probably have no idea what those laws are or when you're crossing legislative borders.

The US isn't the only country this happens in, but it's probably the most extreme example of when "the law of the land" doesn't even scratch the surface of the legal system.

maximillious > Bird
10/17/2013 at 12:58

No shit. I dont think this is the first one either. There was an R34 in a similar area for sale a year ago as well. That one seems to have sold. He had it priced at like 18k bone stock gtr

it was crazy

PelicanHazard > Bird
10/17/2013 at 12:59

How do they even end up in the country? It's my understanding they're turned away or seized at the port of entry or by border patrol agents if the paperwork isn't in order.

Bird > dieselwagon
10/17/2013 at 13:00

That's true to an extent. This is actually an easy one though. Federal law trumps state law. Something everyone should have learned by their freshman year of high school.

For Sweden > Bird
10/17/2013 at 13:01

Something has always confused me; is it legal to own, or illegal to title? I.E. if I stripped it out, replaced the glass with plastic, and make it clear it was a track toy, would the U.S. government crush it?

For Sweden > dieselwagon
10/17/2013 at 13:01

Bro, do you even federal system?

Bird > For Sweden
10/17/2013 at 13:08

Illegal to be here period. Race cars have special import requirements. The most important being that it was built as an off road vehicle, and was never intended to be licensed to drive on a public road. So all the people selling them as a 'track car only' are also illegal.

I can't find the reference, but there was one guy in Arizona who managed to bring in a shell and all the parts to a Civic separately, then rebuild and title it as a kit car. Feds seized it, but hw went to court and managed to get them to rule what he did was ok by the law. That is a stand alone case where in all truth the judge probably made a mistake. The feds have since shut down Kaizo, an operation that was importing Skylines and S15's as remanufactured unibodies with an MSO (Manufacturers Statement of Origin) allowing people to then rebuild the car and title as a kit.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > For Sweden
10/17/2013 at 13:09

I believe its only illegal to register the car for road use. I believe you can get them registered under show and display but it severely limits the amount of miles you can drive per year. I'm not sure on registering the car for track use or if you even have to have it registered for that as long as its transported by trailer to and from and meets the safety regulations of the track.

dieselwagon > Bird
10/17/2013 at 13:09

Oh sure, I understand the concept. The small town reality is not necessarily the same though. Anecdotal evidence suggests what's written on paper matters little when you're a foreign national, or an out of state citizen with no information about who/what/where/why you were detained by a local sheriff.

The ongoing situation in Missouri also suggests that local connections trump state and federal law. Until the global media gets a hold of it.

Bird > PelicanHazard
10/17/2013 at 13:10

You can sneak them in...not all of them get caught. Just don't put it on the Bill of Lading or call it something it's not...

You can smuggle cars just like you can smuggle drugs and people in containers.

dieselwagon > Bird
10/17/2013 at 13:15

Also, it's not like everyone agrees on what the federal laws actually mean. The constitution is even open to interpretation, and the Patriot Act is open to 'secret' interpretations.

My point is that although federal trumps state law, how many state laws are there, that arn't compatible with federal are on the books? And how long does it take them to get struck down, and how many people get caught in the crossfire.

How many people actually have the facilities to battle these matters to the highest levels either, when free legal counsel is only provided in certain circumstances if you're essentially bankrupt already, rather than just unable to pay for astronomical lawyer fees like most people would be.

Bird > dieselwagon
10/17/2013 at 13:21

Just because an individual law enforcement officer, prosecutor, or judge does not correctly uphold the law, it doesn't change the law.

Also the Missouri rape case has nothing to do with federal vs state law...

Our laws with foreign nationals are fairly clear. Our enforcement is hazy as fuck. I personally don't agree with them, but no, a foreigner does not enjoy the same rights as a US citizen in this country.

Do we have issues with these concepts, yes. A great example is the current issue with marijuana. It's legal in Colorado for adults. It's available as a medicine in several states, but it's still federally a class 1 narcotic. That means you could be arrested by the feds for marijuana charges in Colorado, even though the state says it's ok. Currently the federal government is not enforcing the law as it applies to individual users, but the law still stands.

Bird > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
10/17/2013 at 13:22

Please don't spread incorrect information.

Everything you said was wrong.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/imp…

Bird > dieselwagon
10/17/2013 at 13:28

I guess that's my point. I hate seeing people caught in the middle unnecessarily.

A lot of people just don't understand how a state could do something that was federally illegal...I wish people would have spent more time on history in high school.

McMike > Bird
10/17/2013 at 13:28

It probably was reVINed before it came to the country, therefore "imported legally".

If that's the case, then the seller is selling a Nissan ________ (or whatever the VIN comes back as). The title says _____, and your new title in your state will say ______. It doesn't make the car legal, but allows it to be registered.

I have heard of this move being performed on classic minis and old bugs. Since they changed so little since they were last sold in this country, there are a lot of newer cars driving around with mid 70s VIN numbers.

Cixelsyd > PelicanHazard
10/17/2013 at 13:30

Import it to a neighboring country and then drive it across the border with foreign plates on it. It's doubtful the border guard would even give it a second look.

madpehs > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
10/17/2013 at 13:33

I believe show and display is limited to cars of technical or historical significance with limited production runs.
Information here:
http://www.showordisplay.com/
Unfortunately, because skyline racecar! doesn't get the job done.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > Bird
10/17/2013 at 13:33

excuse me then like i said that is what i believed of the rules not what they may have actually been please dismiss my other comment then. i apologize for giving false information. my only real experience is with importing engines. I have a full legally registered 2.5 RS with a Ver 4 STi swap, and as long as its never smoged its legal to drive.

dieselwagon > Bird
10/17/2013 at 13:36

I understand, my point isn't to criticize. The system is the system for good or bad.

Getting lost in the politics here, my original point was that the advert makes a lot of legitimate claims, about it having a VIN, being registered and insured. All of this is/could be true, and is implied on a state level and from my reading does not explicitly state this is legal at a federal level. Which as ignorance is no excuse, is obvious to anyone looking for such a vehicle.

—— back to being off topic —-

My point about Missouri was if it was treated under a national/federal law system, the corruption wouldn't have been able to occur with the ease it did. Local people with vested interests would never have gotten near the case.

If we're looking at concepts, things like 'separation of church and state' do not resonate or are interpreted in very interesting ways by large sections of society. To an outside observer it seems very clear but you have "in god we trust" on your money.

The Marijuana one is also a good example, schedule I is based on having no recognized medicinal benefit. A notable percentage of the states have recognized medicinal benefits but the federal level hasn't and refuses funding to studies whilst claiming they need to know more before they change. Then there's is the implicit 'hands off' policy, which strongly implies that federal trumps state, sometimes when convenient politically.

This also ties into the 'interstate commerce' clause in which is so broad, as basically all our activities are economic in some way. Pretty much anything can be covered under that umbrella.

Bird > McMike
10/17/2013 at 13:50

It's a lot easier to do with the old minis and bugs though. Tough to claim an R32 is an 80's car. Some states will issue a VIN to anything that you can prove you own to their satisfaction.

Bird > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
10/17/2013 at 13:57

That's the problem. People love to throw out erroneous info that they aren't really sure about. I spelled out the race car import rules in the post you replied to. You then contradicted it.

Also your engine swapped car is federally illegal too. (as is everyone else who has a JDM engine)

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/res…

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/can-jdm-motors…

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > Bird
10/17/2013 at 14:02

I think the federal government has more important thing to worry about than a few cars. any how I apologized in my last post there's no reason to be a dick about it.

Bird > dieselwagon
10/17/2013 at 14:11

Yeah, I guess that's true. The claims are legitimate...just shady.

Very true about Missouri, It would help if people in small towns had an option to move to a different venue in a lot cases. That could create all sorts of other problems but, hey that's government I guess.

Kugelblitz > PelicanHazard
10/17/2013 at 14:15

Not every CONEX container gets inspected. They can hold multiple cars if they are packed correctly. Since I am indirectly involved in shipping a few historic vehicles to Europe next fall, the configuration and other oddities have been eating my brain. The worst problem is that BATF WILL NOT LET THEM BACK INTO THE COUNTRY. Even if Customs says OK. It is very difficult to get things unsiezed from the BATF, even if they are nabbed for completely and totally wrong reasons.

Bird > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
10/17/2013 at 14:17

Sorry if you think I'm being a dick.

I made a post with facts to inform people, then you came in without any knowledge on the subject and contradicted me. I find that pretty rude.

I said please when I asked you not to spread misinformation. Then you did it again, saying your car was fully legal.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > Bird
10/17/2013 at 14:30

within the confines of the state of Oregon and more precisely the central Oregon area the care is legally registered for use on the road. i apologize for being an ass earlier. I was hungry and therefore posting without fully considering what you were talking about. Now understanding that you are talking about legality through the federal government and not just state. I do know a person who owned an r33 skyline that was registered as such in the Redmond area but they will register almost any car as long as you prove you own it.

Bird > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
10/17/2013 at 14:36

Yeah, the point of the post was to try to bring some clarity to the subject...So many people have no idea that the state laws governing their registration are separate from the federal laws regarding importation.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > Bird
10/17/2013 at 14:41

now the thing i don understand is the why in the government not allowing more cars into the states it seems like it would be a decent way to collect more taxes.

Bird > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
10/17/2013 at 14:50

I think you're on the right track. I think we need to lobby for a federal exemption...Something similar to CA's SB100 law that allows you to obtain emissions exempt registration for a kit car.

Set a limit, add a fee. Done.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > Bird
10/17/2013 at 14:55

Pretty much the only group that would bother to go through the paper work and pay the fees and taxes on importing cars are enthusiasts. put a limit of about 500 cars a year for import perhaps base the taxes on smog levels and base cost of the car. if it produces more smog the percentage from the base price that is taxed is raised.

RazoE > Bird
10/17/2013 at 15:45

There's a 4 door R34 rolling around here in the South Bay area of Los Angeles. I wonder how he got it here.

Bird > RazoE
10/17/2013 at 15:48

CA is even harder....Although I've seen plenty here. Never a 4 door though.

I don't know exactly how many and what style of Skylines Motorex brought in, but they did bring in R34's. So there are a few legal R34's. Don't know about 4-doors though. It's actually surprising to me that someone went to the trouble to bring in a 4 door R34.