What Cars Have Manufacturers Completely Given Up On?

"Chappie" (johngaffney) 10/16/2013 at 10:00 • Filed to: None

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Alright folks, I'm popping my oppo-lock cherry here, so be gentle...

I thought I'd give my first dance to a topic that I feel I can relate to pretty well: cars that manufacturers have completely given up on. What do I mean by that? Glad you asked...

Car manufacturers these days tend to run their franchise marquees into the ground. They start out with a vision of what a vehicle should be, they produce something pretty close to that vision, it's a hit, and then as other markets develop over a generations time, they start to pander to the lowest common denominator. While you can understand the logic - it's easy money and marketing a car to the masses that is efficient, sort of boring and yet "sporty" (aka, it has a lip spoiler and aggressive lines) isn't too hard - it doesn't make it right, and in some cases ruins entire brands (Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Mercury and Plymouth, among others).

I thought I'd open up the floor with a question: what car has a manufacturer ruined that really hit home for you? Me personally, it's the Jetta. We all can laugh at it now, and rightfully so, but there was a time between 1985 and 1992 that it was one of the best value FWD sports-sedans money could buy here in the U.S. as well as being incredibly versatile across the entire line (economy, up-market, diesel, performance). There was a reason why it became so popular at that time, and then from there Volkswagen decided "performance? Basic convienance? A no-nonsense sporty feel? No I don't think that will work at all" and the MkIII was born. Now to be fair, the MkIII was a disappointment for the golf line as well, but not nearly as much as the Jetta. And it with the exception of the Mk5 TDI and GLI, it never got better. The newest Jetta's are big marshmallows with a bunch of plastic and none of the sportiness crossing over from it's little brother in the golf/gti hatches. I know why this is the case, it's been well documented (and criticized) on Jalopnik, but it doesn't make me any less disappointed. I miss the time of the lightweight, 16 valve GLI that was looked at as a legitimate enthusiast car. It was a better time, really.

Tom McParland > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 10:07

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I dunno if VW has "given up" on the Jetta but rather changed focus. It is not the "premium" compact it once was and the MKVI initially was pretty bad, but now they have scrapped the 2.5L in favor of the 1.8T which is a very nice mill and IRS is standard on everything above the 2.0. So I think they still care about this car...even if it is just a little bit.

Dodge however....

PatBateman > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 10:07

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You're new? Congrats! Welcome! Bend over!

Forget about that last part. I was caught up in the heat of the moment. Anywho, my vote goes to the Nissan Titan. I honestly don't even know why they're making it anymore.

Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur > PatBateman 10/16/2013 at 10:11

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The new one should be almost decent, unlike the one now which isn't even considered a competitor

Z_Stig > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 10:12

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For me it's the M3. Now I'm not disputing each successive generation of M3 is quicker and faster than the last but I miss the raw feeling of the E30 and E36, and to some extent, the E46 had that as well. To me, the E92 was a great motor with some wheels and tires, and it didn't quite get the blood flowing the way the previous three generations did.

The next F8x M3/ M4 (another stupid thing they've done that I hate) looks to be even faster and more focused than than the E9x, but it looks like what a M5 would've looked to be a few years ago, and the current M5 is fast becoming a M7 of sorts.

I think a lot of folks will feel differently; but that's just me.

Great first post, BTW!!!

PatBateman > Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur 10/16/2013 at 10:16

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If you're Nissan, you don't come to the market place with a second generation truck that's "almost decent". You come with a truck that will make a Chevy or Ford lover's smirk erase from his face when they sit in the cab and the accelerator is down. Otherwise... Why bother if you're barely going to break even on the truck?

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 10:17

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Welcome!

It's pretty well documented that Land Rover has given up on -alright keep it together- the -god damit it's dusty in here- Defender. /sniff.

anonsagainstanonymous > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 10:19

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Subaru Forester

from this

and this

to this

no wait wrong car I mean this

Volvosaurus-Rex > Tom McParland 10/16/2013 at 10:21

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And along those lines, the GLI actually has some significant suspension upgrades over the base Jetta including the differential-type thing from the GTI.

Changed focus, yes, neglected, nope.

Montalvo > Z_Stig 10/16/2013 at 10:21

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You are 100% correct and I believe the reason is how many amenities and the immense weight it carries. It is ridiculous that the car could feel so comfortable even if you are going in through a corner while getting some oppo. The E36 was like 700lbs lighter than the current m3, it had much less hp but it is the absolute fling-ability and pokey character that defined the raw feeling. It really is the transformation from a sports car into a luxury sports sedan. It will destroy the competition but in a way that your passengers could be sleeping while you are doing that.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 10:21

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I drive a Mk3 jetta and you speak blasphemy and lies. A pox on you and your kin!

Now then, the jetta has always been about getting butts in seats rather than "sporty" performance. It seems sporty only because the options from other makers at the time were limited. The Mk2 came from a time before V-tech, before SHO, before the Supercharged 3800, and basically before the market became saturated with power and performance parts for you compact and midsized sedans. To put it another way - it's not the Jetta who got worse, it was that the competition stepped up. Yes, they have zero balls but the 4 cylinders and stick shifts like mine are really damn tough little bastards. Mine has over 200k miles and is still relatively squeak and thunk free while returning low 30s MPG. I put coilovers on it and grippier tires and it handles great. I didn't bother trying to add power since I like the reliability of it.

Persoanlly, I don't think VW ever gave up on the jetta, they just use it to reach the bottom of their range in America with lower and lower pricing on the base model. We still have the GLI in the 6th gen, and even the fifth gen had the fahrenheit special edition which had better suspension and unique body color. It even came as a manual where the Golf fahrenheit only came as DSG. It's been an incredibly versatile car for VW with everything from a base/crappy model to get people in the showroom with a rock bottom price, all the way up to a 210hp sports sedan that can sticker for twice the base model. In between is a healthy selection of mid sized sedan and a diesel for those MPGs and even a wagon variant that sells quite well.

Volvosaurus-Rex > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 10:21

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Is there any question?

GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 10:23

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Direct quote from Mitsubishi:

willkinton247 > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 10/16/2013 at 10:36

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Nailed it. I'm proud to be a Jetta owner. I love that thing.

There, I said it.

willkinton247 > GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo 10/16/2013 at 10:36

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Hahahahaha this is amazing.

glassman222 > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 11:21

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Jeep CJ/Wrangler. Each new version is less Jeep and more every other SUV on the road.

Atomic Buffalo > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 11:25

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A dedicated plant in Tennessee and a dedicated design for the American market — it's not the car that VW has completely given up on, it's the idea that catering to driving enthusiasts is the path to profit. Which was never real in the first place.

That time between 1985 and 1992? Just a natural sweet spot in the evolution of the auto industry. Safety standards were such that a subcompact was still light and cheap to build but stiff enough to be fun to drive, and engine technology had improved in the shadow of emissions regs and displacement taxes. And Americans were buying small foreign cars in volume because we didn't trust domestics and we were raised on fuel crises.

Eventually, we demanded more power, more comfort, and more safety, and we equated small cars with economic desperation. And VW realized the car for the American masses was a feature-rich midsize commuter sedan.

ezeolla > glassman222 10/16/2013 at 11:26

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Yet each one is better off road than the last (except maybe the CJ to YJ transition)

Atomic Buffalo > PatBateman 10/16/2013 at 11:27

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Problem: you're never going to get a Chevy or Ford lover in the cab in the first place.

offroadkarter > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 11:44

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If this was two years ago, I would say panther platform. Interior from 95, body from 95 (although a lot of it will swap with a 92-97), platform from 03 (with many similarities to the -02).

How about, the entire Mitsubishi lineup? I think they've just given up as a car company to be honest.

PatBateman > Atomic Buffalo 10/16/2013 at 11:55

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In the passenger seat, you will. I drive a Ford, and if I sat down in a Nissan that was more luxurious and tech-savvy than my Lariat on the inside, and then threw me back in my seat with more force upon acceleration than my 5.4 does, I don't know if I'd be chiding anyone for owning a full size "furr-in" truck again.

maximillious > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 11:59

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Oh Awesome!!!

SAAAWEEET

Super Cool!!

...Different...but Awesome!

WHOA UNBELIEVABLE

Umm...ok...Not bad...i guess

Wait.... WAT

Oh a mid cycle refresh you say? This is going to be goo....oh this is it...i didnt notice.

Klaus Schmoll > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 12:11

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I always think that it's quite funny that in the US the Jetta was/is considered a sporty sedan, whereas in it's home market it's a boring old people's car.

pdthedeuce > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 13:08

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good post , welcome .

Chappie > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 10/16/2013 at 13:37

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The Mk3's up here in the mid Atlantic tend to rust out much quicker (even ze German ones) and I feel like, while one tough SOB, the ABA engine just was a bad combo with that body. It actually works much better in mk1 and mk2 swaps, especially when boosted. They are tough and the OBD1's especially with the more desirable cranks make great donor cars.

But this is the crux of my argument: the new Jetta sacrifices a ton of performance at the base model through mid range to get cheap, and it does so while also putting on weight.

The GLI is still an okay car, but it doesn't feel nearly as punch as the mk2 gli, especially the later years with the 2.0L 16v. Obviously it's got more power and more tech behind it, but I think there's something to be said for a punchy car. Especially since I prefer my FWD cars to feel more like go karts than I do straight line performers.

Getting back to the mk3 for a moment, the problem I always had was that it was a car VW built kind of sloppily. It didn't necessarily want to be just a commuter car, but at the same time they were more concerned about making the interior more American friendly than they were the ride something that was really desirable. It's a great daily and you can mod it just as much as any other car with an aftermarket following, but I think the tell tail sign of why the mk3 was a drop off veers it's head when you look at what the majority of the aftermarket parts are geared to, and that's stance/slam/low. Not to say that that doesn't invade every car culture and mk1 and 2's don't also suffer from the stance culture, but the performance aftermarket is far greater for mk1 and 2's than mk3's, especially in this area.

Chappie > Atomic Buffalo 10/16/2013 at 13:43

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I don't necessarily agree. Ford has proven that Americans like European things to, you just have to do it the right way. The new focus and fiesta have been welcomed with open arms and we are even getting ST versions. That would never happen 10 years ago. Alfa is planning on bringing models back over the pond, along with two fiat models. This is a time, if anything, where the concept of a sedan for the American consumer is changing. People are starting to want to enjoy driving their car, not just commuting in it.

Chappie > Atomic Buffalo 10/16/2013 at 13:45

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I don't necessarily agree. Ford has proven that Americans like European things to, you just have to do it the right way. The new focus and fiesta have been welcomed with open arms and we are even getting ST versions. That would never happen 10 years ago. Alfa is planning on bringing models back over the pond, along with two fiat models. This is a time, if anything, where the concept of a sedan for the American consumer is changing. People are starting to want to enjoy driving their car, not just commuting in it.

Chappie > GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo 10/16/2013 at 13:46

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This was amazing haha.

Atomic Buffalo > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 13:54

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Don't confuse mainstream models with niche products. There's no Fusion ST here. There's no Focus ST sedan here either. And VW has GTI and Golf R which are highly regarded. Alfa's plans? Don't hold your breath. The 4C is going to be lonely.

The Jetta grew up. That's all.

Chappie > Atomic Buffalo 10/16/2013 at 14:09

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Real hot hatches are available in Europe though is my point. They are starting to be here too, as well as other cars that just never would've been 10 years prior and that's why the anemia of the Jetta is so disappointing.

I think saying it grew is excusing VW of compromising a rear suspension setup for a few more standard interior options. That's the Toyota way, and even they had to abandon it after a certain point because the too saw the market was changing.

Chappie > Atomic Buffalo 10/16/2013 at 14:16

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Real hot hatches are available in Europe though is my point. The Focus RS (which for all intents and purposes is the same thing) has been a mainstay in Britain for a while now. They are starting to be here too, as well as other cars that just never would've been 10 years prior and that's why the anemia of the Jetta is so disappointing.

I think saying it grew is excusing VW of compromising a rear suspension setup for a few more standard interior options. That's the Toyota way, and even they had to abandon it after a certain point because the too saw the market was changing. The new corolla is the first positive step tha car has taken in a handful of generations. And we are starting to see light, rwd sports coupes again. This is something that was long ago abandon because of the perceived American market. At one time, sure it made sense, but it doesn't now. VW will get away with milking the Jetta as a no thrills commuter for a bit longer (if that's their intent) but eventually it'll catch up to them. The way Americans are buying cars is changing, and just because someone is buying a base model doesn't mean they don't want to enjoy the driving experience.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 15:46

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Living in west michigan, Mk3s enjoy a massive selection of parts shops and junkyard cars. But going back to the Mk2/Mk3 debate - The Mk2 is not a very performance oriented car until you hit GLI trim. I agree it drives well, but then again that's like saying the sprinter with two legs beat everyone with only one. The contemporary cars you'd compare it to were shit. I also agree that the Mk3 was more of a cruise control car rather than a big step forward like the Mk5 was. But still, the Mk4 helped get them back on track and the Mk5 showed the world that VW was playing for keeps. Those golfs and jettas enjoyed a very healthy array of options and trims and were competitive across a wide range of price brackets and shoppers. The Mk6 continued this trend and experimented with moving the jetta further downward in the market. This is not a bad move because they dod not chop off the top either. You still have your GLI and TDI and wagon and decent interior. Now it looks like not enough people liked that experiment so for Mk7 they're not going to do it again (or do it differently) so I think that shows that the Jetta is very far from a neglected nameplate and is actually a very important car for VW's global strategy.

DocWalt > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 20:00

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Is that your Helios GLI? If so... Very nice! If you ever need a spare Helios BBS, I have one in my trunk... haha

Chappie > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 10/16/2013 at 20:16

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The Mk2 definitely isn't performance oriented until you get to the GLI, you're absolutely right, but as you said, it's still fun to drive when you are poking around with a 5 speed, even in diesel form.

I think the argument that not chopping off the top means it's okay is just not the right direction. I'm not asking for performance or power, just give me a car that I can enjoy driving around the block or around town, you know what I mean? I feel like the Mk5 had a lot more of the mk2 roots (after the first two or so years) compared to the Mk6, which is much closer to the Mk3 in terms of lineage.

Chappie > DocWalt 10/16/2013 at 20:23

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It's not unfortunately, but man is it clean....

I almost had one for a song a couple of years ago, but couldn't pull off the deal. This was my GLI until last year... I took this pic the day I brought her home lol.

DocWalt > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 20:27

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Yours is just as clean, man! What are you driving now?

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 20:43

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You can get that better jetta, you just have to pay about the same amount you did before. But more people can now buy a new jetta which allows for better jetta pricing on all models. Only the bare base model jetta has the live rear axle now. All the others have an IRS again. Also the interior quality is improved if you get the better models. Sitting in a mk6 sportwagen is a very nice place to be. It is also a very nice car to drive. Does the crappy base model make this a bad generation or one that is "lacking"? No. Even if they eliminated the live axle trim from the lineup, the price and availability of the "Better driving" model wouldn't change much. You aren't forced to buy the cheapest one so look at the models you would drive, and treat the car accordingly.

Chappie > DocWalt 10/16/2013 at 22:35

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I'm in between at the moment. Looking to pickup another mk2, just found a potentially great 16v GTI but I wont know for sure until I take the road trip to check it out next week. I'm hopeful for this one, though. Looks like it needs some paint and finishing in order to be a really great car.

Chappie > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 10/16/2013 at 22:46

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I wasn't aware that IRS was back on all non "s" models now, that's fantastic to hear, and actually changes a lot. I still think it's a bit too bulky and heavy, but that goes a long way.

I agree you don't have to get the base, but base models are what will flood the market eventually and that's what aftermarket's will be working around. Obviously you can do a swap, but not everyone wants to put that much time/$$ into that kind of project, especially if the Mk6's just aren't considered as desirable as others.

Honestly, once the Mk6 came out I pretty much wrote the car off. I agree, the sportswagen is very cool and if I had the money I'd own one, specifically a TDI, but otherwise the car is just a very meh production. The GLI has a lot lot to offer, but it really doesn't pop for me. Rather have the GTI, and the Mk2 for me is a completely even toss up. I could take either, it's just about what I'm in the mood for haha.

Atomic Buffalo > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 22:57

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Your point makes no sense. Hot hatches and four door sedans are apples and oranges. Come up with actual examples of cars in the US market that are what the Jetta used to be, and maybe then you'd have made a point.

Chappie > Atomic Buffalo 10/16/2013 at 23:11

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My point was that the European idea of what a car should be is penetrating this market. Our market is no longer all about an option-filled cruiser. Consumers in the U.S. care about how a car drives now too.

Atomic Buffalo > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 23:20

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Hot hatches and four door sedans are apples and oranges. Come up with actual examples of cars in the US market that are what the Jetta used to be, and maybe then you'd have made a point. As it is, you're just trying to pull a fast one and it's not working.

DocWalt > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 23:22

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Sounds a lot like my GTI. Not many out there that are mint anymore.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Chappie 10/16/2013 at 23:44

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I think the mk6 is basically refining the mk5. You might not notice the changes but they took the mk5 and just upped it a bit if you go above the base level. The inline-5 in the mk5 base models were NOT very good :/

But VW putting the IRS back in the other models I think shows they havent abandoned the name at all. If this was GM, yeah they would;ve. GM would leave the crappy suspension in it and say "We'll fix it next generation". VW did listen to complaints and put the IRS back in for the smoother ride. I agree it is a heavy car but then again what car isn't these days? THe IRS does help keep it all under control. Not necessarily a great handling car from an enthusiast standpoint but I guarantee it makes the car nicer to drive overall.

Chappie > Atomic Buffalo 10/17/2013 at 08:31

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My point wasn't to compare hot hatches to sedans, but to illustrate that the American market has diversified and we are more inclined to branch out to cars that are fun to drive now as well as good every day cars, and the hot hatch is one example. The gt86 platform is another, as is the Dart (which I think is a great apples to apples comparison to the mk2 jetta in terms of what it provides at base through top end).

Chappie > DocWalt 10/17/2013 at 08:33

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The mid Atlantic region is really lucky for VW people. From middle PA through Jersey and down through Maryland there is a plethora of great Mk2's. The problem is since there are so many enthusiasts, it also drives the prices up a bit compared to other areas.

Chappie > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 10/17/2013 at 08:39

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I agree, that's a commitment on VW's part and it's honestly great to hear.

Hopefully the mk7 will shed some weight just as the mk7 golf did. I think you're actually seeing a lot of cars now come up with new ways to lose weight because manufacturers are realizing they're reaching a threshold for the market they are trying to reach.

DocWalt > Chappie 10/17/2013 at 09:09

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I ended having to run up to mid-state NY to get mine for a reasonable price. I think there's 6 Mk2's just in my town alone, and nobody is interested in selling.

Chappie > DocWalt 10/17/2013 at 09:14

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Yeah, the market tends to flood and then dry within a 6 week or so cycle from what I notice. Usually always when I'm looking to buy is when it goes dry haha. I tend to see a mk1 or 2 at least once a week in this area. In fact I had a neighbor who's 80 year old mother still drove around her white 4 door golf until she passed recently. I'm not a 4 door golf fan but it was in decent shape too.

DocWalt > Chappie 10/17/2013 at 10:18

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There are tons of VERY nice Mk1s around here, but I rarely see them. A guy down the street has a couple of Sciroccos too. It's amazing that there's so many of these old econo-cars on the road at all. Not too many cars from that era that I see otherwise, ha.

Atomic Buffalo > Chappie 10/17/2013 at 11:59

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You overstate the diversification — there have always been fun-to-drive cars — but you keep looking away from the Jetta's segment to argue that the Jetta should be something different. Cruze, Corolla, Elantra, Sentra, Civic sedan, Focus sedan, Mazda3 sedan, Forte sedan, Impreza sedan — and you mention the Dodge Dart, the new kid in town desperately blitzing the airwaves with how cool it is. Is it really good or do you just like its campaign?

The perennial winners in compact cars — Civic and Corolla — haven't done it with Fahrvergnugen. You're criticizing Volkswagen for wanting to be successful and profitable at selling cars and adapting to market realities instead of sticking with you and your budget-enthusiast sensibilities. That's not "completely giving up." Volkswagen has made plain its bid for mainstream success (and not just in compact sedans), and while they still offer quirky cars and fun-to-drive cars, including a Jetta GLI, that's not enough to curry your favor. You wish the Jetta name was still as cool as it was in high school, because you've hitched your star to the nameplate. "Jetta enthusiast" is part of your identity and Jetta's changes make you feel less cool, so of course VW is to blame for that feeling and Jetta's evolution must be a mistake. Well, the bad news is that VW was always just trying to make money selling cars.

Look, I loved my Acura Integra, so I get why you feel as you do (and part of me says "you think you've got it bad?")... but I can't agree with you. Volkswagen's dumbing down of the Jetta range is selling out, but it isn't betrayal. If anything, being a staid choice in America is just better alignment with its brand image everywhere else.

Maybe instead of you wishing VW would (re)embrace more European flavor, you should embrace more European flavor and get a hatchback :)

Chappie > Atomic Buffalo 10/17/2013 at 14:40

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I think you're assuming a bit too much here. It's very true, I love the mk2 Jetta's, but I'm a euro enthusiast, not just Jetta. I've owned a mk1 rabbit, had a tepid affair with a friends built xr4ti and a some older Saab turbo's. I'm also likely picking up a gti next week, an beyond that the first car I learned how to drive stickon in high school was my uncles 92 sentra se-r (with working LSD). I'd say I'm pretty diverse. ;)

I stated the dart purely for its base model suspension, but all of those cars you list, with the exception of the impreza, either did not exist the way they do now 10 years ago or didn't exist period. I'd also argue that an 03 base impreza of that time was far better than a current base impreza, by the way. You're making my point! The market has allowed for a lot more fun on the cheap (Mazda 3 is actually the perfect example - hell even the car smiles), VW going the civic route with the Jetta on the low end should be disappointing, shouldn't it? There's a reason honda went with an early refresh, the civic too has become a far cry of what it was.

Atomic Buffalo > Chappie 10/17/2013 at 23:54

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A lot of those cars didn't exist or were different ten years ago? This doesn't make your point, it refutes it. The difference isn't that others now have the cheap performance you wish the Jetta still had, it's that they're more like the Jetta, with the roominess and ( non -enthusiast) features people want at a price they can afford.

And the Civic got a quick redo because they cut too much on the non -enthusiast side, going a little too cheap on the interior. They didn't give the Civic sedan back its double wishbones or sportiness, did they? They just switched the threads from K-Mart to Target.

And no, I don't think I've got you wrong — why does VW's evolution of one of their nameplates away from your obviously-not-mainstream enthusiast tastes bother you? You enjoy and even desire other cars; you should have no trouble walking away from today's Jetta with no hard feelings. Jetta is just into different stuff than you are now. Not lesser stuff, just different stuff.

A pet peeve of mine is the auto enthusiast that begrudges a manufacturer for deigning to prioritize building cars that best fit the tastes of non-enthusiast buyers.

Especially a manufacturer whose name translates to "the people's car." I mean, come on, it's right there on the label :)

Chappie > Atomic Buffalo 10/18/2013 at 14:16

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It was supposed to be a fun post of cars you wished were still how you remembered them, so I think the entire topic might be a pet peeve for you lol. I chose the one that makes me upset, you're supposed to chose the one that makes you upset now. ;)

Listen, I'm not saying the Jetta is going away any time soon or it's dead, but those other cars all do what the Jetta used to do now, along with the non-enthusiast stuff, and they're all cheap too. I'm not saying turn it into 400 hp hoon machine, I just want it to be fun across the line, not just at the top end. I don't think that's asking for a lot, and you don't need to have one or the other. They both can exist in an economically priced vehicle, cars like the Mazda 3, Fusion, Focus, Forte, Cruze, Dart, etc.

Atomic Buffalo > Chappie 10/18/2013 at 15:33

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Of those only the Mazda 3 and Dart have fun potential in anything other than loaded guise... I think you're too critical of the Jetta because the press made a big deal of the rear suspension and overall cheapening, and not critical enough of other cars in the segment simply because they haven't gotten the same used-to-be-great spin. Jetta has a PR problem: they got crucified for a lumpy 5-cylinder and a cheap suspension because they were being held to a higher standard. Sometimes it's better to be the underdog :) At least now the 5-pot is gone...

But yeah, few cars are still how you remember them. The new cars are different from the old ones because the market changes — and sometimes even the old cars aren't how you remember them because you've changed! Nostalgia is a funny thing. Usually best left with its patina intact :)

Still, despite how much objectively better new cars are, their evolution has casualties and enthusiasts have no shortage of disappointments. I mentioned the Acura Integra before. I think it's a lot like your Jetta, actually, albeit more intentionially upmarket than circumstantially so — and it just faded away entirely. Integra acolytes sat and stewed as their baby lost its name, its sedan, its front wishbones, and its hero edition... and then watched Acura abandon the niche altogether... and sat frustrated as the S2000 came and went without any variants and the old donor Civic lost its edge... and Subaru and Mitsubishi tear it up with wicked little four-doors... and then there's the Toyobaru sitting right where a modern Integra Type-R oughta be. Sigh. VW might have some mojo deficiencies, but Honda's wearing Sansabelts.

And then there's how fat small cars all got. Of course safety is a good thing, but... dammit, government, why'd you have to do us dirty like that? In the late 80s a sporty hatchback weighed a little over 2000 pounds, now they're 3000 pounds. Even the mighty Miata weighs almost 2500 pounds buck nekkid. It's just wrong.

Chappie > Atomic Buffalo 10/18/2013 at 16:39

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Annnnnd I think we've finally come to some kind of agreement. ;)

SpeedSix > Chappie 10/27/2013 at 23:07

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1970

1987