The Opposite Locker - Edition XXXIX

"Tim (Fractal Footwork)" (fractalfootwork) 10/14/2013 at 18:38 • Filed to: The Opposite Locker, Mercedes-Benz, CLA, OppositeLock

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This is The Opposite Locker where we try and sort out the cool from the square. This is a discussion system detailing how cool a car is, not how fast, fun, or frivolous it may be, but how well it looks in the cat's pajamas. But, you may be asking, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

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Asterisked* cars are moved more than slightly from the original vote by use of veto power, and double asterisked** cars are vehicles moved back under a challenge.

Locker Space

Frigid

Chrysler 300*

Dodge Challenger

Toyota GT 86

Porsche Cayman

McLaren 

Porsche 918

Maserati GranTurismo

Aston Martin DB9

Aston Martin V12 Vantage

Jaguar F-Type

SRT Viper

Lamborghini Aventador

Cool

Ford Focus

Chevrolet Corvette (C7)

Mazda MX-5 Miata

Ford Mustang

Porsche 911

Tesla Model S

Maserati Quattroporte

Aston Martin V8 Vantage

Ferrari FF

Audi R8

Ford Fusion

Kia Optima

Mazda 6

Alfa Romeo 4C

Cadillac XTS

Fiat 500

Audi A7

Mercedes-Benz CLS

Ford Fiesta

Audi A8

Jeep Wrangler

Lotus Evora

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! - As !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! would have us know, "I'd say cool, because it's something a bit more than just a small hatchback. But it doesn't seem like you're trying a bit hard, like the Opel Adam or Citroen DS3 sport versions. And Italians are always cool."

Uncool

Nissan GT-R

Chevrolet Camaro

Porsche Boxster*

Porsche Cayenne

Ferrari 458 Italia

Lamborghini Gallardo

Ferrari LaFerrari

Nissan 370Z

Chevrolet Volt

Maserati Ghibli

BMW 3 Series

Aston Martin Vanquish*

Hyundai Genesis Coupe

Chevrolet Malibu

Hyundai Sonata

Honda Accord

Subaru Legacy

Lexus LF-A*

Buick Regal *

Volkswagen Golf*

Chevolet Silverado

Dodge Ram

Audi A5*

Jeep Grand Cherokee

Mercedes-Benz GLK

Cadillac Escalade

BMW 7 Series

Mercedes-Benz S Class

Chevrolet Impala

Square

Toyota Camry

Toyota Corolla

Porsche Panamera

McLaren MP4-12C*

Nissan Leaf

Toyota Prius

Nissan Altima

Chrysler 200

Dodge Avenger

Volkswagen Passat

Lexus IS

Lincoln MKZ

Ford F-150

BMW 5 Series Gran Turismo

New Kid On The Block

Built for the youngsters who want the prestige of owning a Mercedes yet still want fuel consumption to be light on their wallet, the CLA is Mercedes' attempt to rejoin a market in which Audi and BMW have been ruling for quite some time. So, is a Mercedes that was designed in a wind tunnel to reduce drag as cool as it's unobstructed older siblings?

Mercedes-Benz CLA

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Goshen, formerly Darkcode > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/14/2013 at 12:31

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It's an A-class sedan, nothing much. Uglier than pretty much all of its competitors.

johncalvinyoung > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/14/2013 at 12:47

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How in the WORLD is the Aston Martin Vanquish 'uncool'? In what possible dimension? As awesome as the V12 Vantage and the DB9 are, the Vanquish was the Bond car, and was even more aggressive than either. By far my personal favourite and dream vehicle...while I can accept it might not be everyone's cup of tea, you can't tell me a Ford Focus is cooler than a Vanquish V12 any day.

AMC/Renauledge > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/14/2013 at 13:45

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The CLA is a front-drive Buick Verano competitor for $6k more to start. It's also longer than the C-Class, despite being based on the 3G A-Class, which has grown a vehicle class with each successive generation.

And the CLA makes me nervous about the prospects for the RWD C-Class's future.

No. Just, no. If M-B wants to branch into front-drivers, they can launch a new brand.

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/14/2013 at 17:28

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How many pictures do you have of that dude being cool in and around cars?

I've been wondering this for quite some time...

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 10/14/2013 at 18:38

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I think I've posted all the ones I could find on the internet, and now they're on repeat.

Sparf > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 10/14/2013 at 18:39

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"that dude"

Seriously? It's Steve McQueen goddamnit!

HammerheadFistpunch > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/14/2013 at 18:43

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CLA - uncool

CLA AMG - Cool

Add AWD and enough power and even peeing your pants is cool.

Blondude > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/14/2013 at 18:50

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Hey look! A Corvette!

Sparf > HammerheadFistpunch 10/14/2013 at 18:53

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Yeah I kinda voted based on the AMG which reminds me enough of the WRX STI and Lan-Evo to warrant a Cool vote.

hike > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/14/2013 at 18:54

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I think it's square because of FWD and those goofy vents on the rear bumber. Or maybe just the vents.

dogisbadob > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/14/2013 at 18:58

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Fattened up ugly pointless sedan version of the A-class, and displacesthe A-class hatchback over here

SQUARE

Manuél Ferrari > AMC/Renauledge 10/14/2013 at 19:29

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I didn't know that it was 3 inches longer than the C class. So annoying how each existing model keeps growing in size. My Mom has the current C class and it never seemed too small to me. It's the perfect size for someone like her who mostly drives by herself and occasionally has passengers in the rear seats for short trips.

The only version of the CLA that is OK in my book is the CLA45 AMG. The engine in that car looks mighty impressive for a 2.0L turbo four banger. I found the Chris Harris video that compared it to the BMW rival interesting. He made it seem like the Merc's engine somehow pulled off the feat of outputting a ton of power per liter without feeling like it was only fun to drive while revving high.

As far as the future C class losing RWD that will only happen if BMW switches the 3 Series to FWD too. And for BMW to do that Mercedes would have to do it. So whether or not this happens depends on how likely Mercedes and BMW execs are to strike a back room deal. Let's hope this collusion never happens and that each company stays RWD to avoid losing customers to the other company.

Manuél Ferrari > johncalvinyoung 10/14/2013 at 19:32

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I love how this car looks and sounds too. But maybe it's uncool because the V12 is such a POS that owners have had experienced engine failures at less than 50,000 miles. I've seen advertisements for used V12 Aston's for sale that said "engine replaced under warranty at 45,000 miles". Aston's engineering issues were so bad that they had to sign a partnership with AMG to supply them with engines.

Manuél Ferrari > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/14/2013 at 19:34

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Why is the Ferrari 458 uncool? Is it because the front end is fugly (to some) or because it's driven by so many douches?

SLR999 > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/14/2013 at 19:37

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Don't hurt me for saying this, but the Aventador has ranked very low in practically every driving competition I've seen it ranked. Plus its design is derivative (much the same problem with the Astons).

By those criteria, it should fall under the same category as the 911, which at least drives well to console yourself about reminding every woman in a 30km radius that you're stuck in a 9 year olds' wet dream.

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > Manuél Ferrari 10/14/2013 at 20:09

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"Ferraris always come with a whiff of undeserved prestige, the kind that makes you act pompous and elite around your equals. The only way one can attempt to escape this contemptuous cologne cloud is by purchasing a Ferrari with actual speed and power (F12, LaFerrari). The 458, no matter how fast it may actually be, is just a badge holder."

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-opposite-l…

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Tim (Fractal Footwork) > HammerheadFistpunch 10/14/2013 at 20:10

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If the CLA was AWD standard, then maybe it would be cool, but with FWD standard, its just your Grannie's shopping cart.

StiglyWigly > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/14/2013 at 20:57

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Finally I found a place where Challengers are appreciated. Always hear how awesome the mustang and camaro are but the Challenger is badass regardless if it might be worse performance wise.

Manuél Ferrari > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/14/2013 at 21:02

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Thanks for the link. I read up on the opinions. The people have spoken and the 458 is uncool. The main reason was what I guessed - the people who own it. I can kind of agree with that. I do think it's a shame since the poor car itself has no control over who its owners are. It just wants to get on a track and go nuts but instead it gets driven around NYC traffic and forced to run over police feet.

I don't agree though that the 458 doesn't have actual speed and power though. The fact that it's the base mid-engine model means nothing to me. 90%+ of us Oppo readers would be no faster around a track in an F12 than we would be in a 458. The 458 has way more power and ability than most people have the skills to use. It might not be a true supercar due to the more powerful and expensive models from Ferrari and others. But it would sure feel like a supercar to most of us.

johncalvinyoung > Manuél Ferrari 10/15/2013 at 01:18

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Really? I've been an Aston fan for years and have never heard of any such quality issues. The Cologne-built V12 was supposed to be a thing of beauty and rather well engineered. I know about the new deal with AMG, but that was because the current crop of engines (mostly dating from Ford ownership) are reaching the end of their efficient lifecycle and AMG could offer better performance/efficiency.

Manuél Ferrari > johncalvinyoung 10/15/2013 at 02:14

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I've seen a couple used cars on Autotrader that touted freshly installed engines. I almost bought a 2 year old V8 Vantage but got scared after doing research and got a Porsche. I really wished I hadn't found all the reliabilty issues that I did because I love how rare the Astons are and how they look. I read horror stories on Forums of cars being in the service center for weeks or months until the issues were diagnosed.

I think the reliability issues are what drives down prices so much. I've seen smoking deals on used V12 Astons. They seem to depreciate faster than other rare high end GTs.

Maybe certain years were better than others for reliability?

Manuél Ferrari > johncalvinyoung 10/15/2013 at 02:18

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Also maybe my comment about the engineering being bad was unfair. Maybe the designs were decent but the build quality suffered due to financial constraints. The budgets under Ford probably varied and things have been rocky since ownership has changed hands. Even a good design can produce bad engines if QA budgets are cut.

I hope Aston finds better ownership. VAG should buy them, they own nearly everything else already...

johncalvinyoung > Manuél Ferrari 10/15/2013 at 09:17

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Interesting. Things have been a bit rocky since Ford left, but I hope they maintain their independence. They're actually the only major independent luxury marque right now, and I hope they can stay that way. Best way to avoid dilution of the brand through parts- and platform-sharing...

johncalvinyoung > Manuél Ferrari 10/15/2013 at 09:30

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Fair enough. The only really big shop jobs I'd read about were scenarios like sending a Vanquish back to the factory for a manual and RHD conversion for an Australian owner. Still, as even a used V8 Aston is still very much out of my price range for the foreseeable future, I wasn't doing the low-level research you were. Just on sheer looks and sound and beauty, though, there are few cars in my head that can compete with a BRG/cream or tan original-generation Vanquish. Most Vanquish V12s I've seen on the market are hovering around $80k. Which I suppose is pretty insane depreciation for a decade later, but it's hard to be sad—that much closer to when I might be able to get my hands on one.

William Byrd > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 10/15/2013 at 11:25

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Cool. Good looking car, attainable price, cool marketing campaign (I like the "deal with the devil" commercial).

Manuél Ferrari > johncalvinyoung 10/15/2013 at 13:50

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I did some research and I think I found the issue that caused premature engine failure in certain model year DB9 cars. The engine burns more oil than owners expected it too and the dipstick length was not correct. On top of this the oil level warning light comes on too late. By the time the warning light comes on the engine might be toast:

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/aston-m…

Weird mix of issues that resulted in owners blowing their engines. But the good news about it is that there was a simple fix - changing the dipstick length. So maybe we should take advantage of how quickly these cars depreciate and go buy a used one :)

I agree that platform sharing can cause dilution. But I just wonder if it's avoidable at this point. So many brands are part of a conglomerate and do it. They have a huge cost advantage over truly independent brands. The cost of running an automaker is so much higher than it was in the old days. It will be interesting to see if Aston can survive being independent.

Manuél Ferrari > johncalvinyoung 10/15/2013 at 13:56

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Here is a 2005 DB9 with 20,000 miles for $70K. Tempting to go look at a car like this one day after learning that the engine failure issue is avoidable (just sent you a separate comment on that):

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/…

fintail > AMC/Renauledge 10/22/2013 at 17:36

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Although "square" at best, it is also 6K better looking than the Verano, the latter suffering from an awkward DLO fail and angry birds-face rear end.

I don't see the C going FWD - IMO, for NA product positioning, CLA is coming along to help move the C and E upmarket a notch.

AMC/Renauledge > fintail 10/22/2013 at 19:08

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Yeah, except that the C and E are already completely in line with the competition. Plus, if the E moves up any more, there won't be any room for the CLS or SWB S-Class.

My guess is that the CLA will cannibalize sales of the C-Class. What's more, the CLA has much more profit margin because it's based on the A/B-Class, and is a more cost-effective FWD platform design.

That way, Benz won't have to engineer a unique compact RWD platform like they do now, since they'll be able to base the next E/CLS on the new S, like BMW does with the 5, 6, and 7.

This is my concern.

Plus, I happen to LIKE the look of the Verano, DLO included. The taillights aren't exactly gorgeous, but that's just one small detail.

The whole CLA looks like Salvador Dali designed it, melting all over the place, with creases and folds and lines everywhere like he had the pen glued to his hand and a gun put to his head to keep adding stuff. But that's me.

fintail > AMC/Renauledge 10/22/2013 at 22:40

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But that's because the competition has also raced downward, but without an eyecatching lower line car to take up slack. Enter the CLA - although I see it as a little droopy too, it is also kind of a 3:4 scale CLS, has a good ad campaign, and has sold like hotcakes so far.

I think the W205 C might move 10-20% up the price ladder to let the CLA exist, and the W213 E will have a similar price move. CLS is still 50% more than a regular E (huge margins), and even the most base S is still double a comparable E. There's plenty of room for C and E price creep, if it can be done in a way that makes the cars seem more desirable. That's a key. There has to be an aspirational prestige component. I don't see C going FWD unless the 3er does so at the same time, and I am not holding my breath for that.

I wouldn't say I hate the Verano or that it is especially ugly, but in 20 years we won't be looking back in awe at the design. For better or worse, right now the CLA is at least a minor head turner.