What If: The S197 Mustang Were As Good As It Looked?

"Lets Just Drive" (lets-just-drive) 10/11/2013 at 00:07 • Filed to: None

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My neighbor, nice guy without the typical asshat stereotypes, owns an M 135i. The little BMW has a lot in to it, as well. My neighbor, he's a car guy and since the "split" he's been able to treat himself to some of the toys he's always wanted without needing to get approval first. It's a very nice car and I don't begrudge him one bit.

Why?

Because I love my car.

Having said that, it's a Mustang and they're pretty far from perfect. (Fingers crossed for the S550!) And that gets me wondering; what if the Mustang were as good as it looks? Specifically, the S197. I think it's a bang on looking car. It's the one place it wins points among my friends, all of whom have their own opinions about Mustangs in general some of which are fairly reserved while others are not. There's that solid rear axle. There's that modular V8 and the old Cologne built 4.0L. Yadda, yadda. I don't tend to fight back. My two standard arguments are based on the longevity of the name and the price. Those, alongside the way it looks, are about my only strategies and using them in a fight, like the car on the road, means finding a straight and running headlong into the enemy front.

My friends understand my inexplicable love. I had a Fox as my first. And with the right mods, bolt on's and build, the Mustang can really be a force to contend with in the right element.

But what if, as we might find with the new car, the old car had bitten as loud as it barked? If you'd have been able to buy the car, off the lot, with independent rear suspension (yes, Cobra, calm down) a better engine line up, and an interior that made you want to touch it, not just look at it... from a distance if possible? For one, the car would have been more expensive - or at least that's the argument from Ford - and the new car looks like it'll be a good step ahead of the current base 6 and 8. Secondly, I have to wonder if it would have sold better? It wasn't until the facelift and the switch to the Duratec 3.7/Coyote 5.0 that the journalists started to publish positive reviews, having taken exception to the old engines on offer and as we all know, having the endorsement of the journalistic community helps when it comes to sales.

I own an 06, and having driven the recent cars (both v6 and v8) can say that they're quite a bit better than my own, but still fall short in key areas - interior quality, LRA, etc. These shortcomings left the Mustang mid-field in most shootouts and comparisons. But, and this goes to what's coming in 2015, what if the Mustang were as good as it looks?

Because, to be honest, I'd love to have some of that BMW under my Ford.

GhostZ > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 00:13

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It totally can be.

1. Adapt IRS from a 2004 Cobra.

2. Swap in 5.0 Coyote (should be easy)

3. Supercharge said Coyote. Poke it with a stick.

4. Redesign the front bumper and undercarriage for stable high-speed handling

5. Add rear diffusers

6.

BAM. You're done. Enjoy your beast. Strip the interior bone-dry to save weight!

The mods would probably have a net cost of $30,000, so you'd still come in less than a new GT500.

Your boy, BJR > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 00:14

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Crazy idea......imagine if instead of the V6 in the base, they used the Barra L6 from the aussie falcon...........

Raphael Orlove > Your boy, BJR 10/11/2013 at 00:15

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now we're talkin

Your boy, BJR > Raphael Orlove 10/11/2013 at 00:20

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.........and for the GT they can use the turbo 6 from the F6 Typhoon, and save the V8s for the Shelbys.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 00:23

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The Mustang is, and always has been, a car built for the aftermarket. You get a low base price and the building blocks are there (Rear wheel drive, manual, v8 ect...). Then you, the owner, put on the modifications to make it great. You can do all sorts of thing with the engine, suspension, body. There are entire companies built around making your Mustang yours. In my mind, the Mustang (with a few exceptions) were built to be modified by the owner. You can go to Roush or Saleen or hell, Ford Racing Parts to make the car what you want.

GhostZ > Your boy, BJR 10/11/2013 at 00:27

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I want to see a Ford 8l V12 based on the Barra heads in a big RWD sedan so badly.

Cherry_man1 > GhostZ 10/11/2013 at 00:34

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I smell new engine for the Ford GT with that mixture

Cherry_man1 > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 00:37

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I own a 4.0L V6 Mustang and a 5.0L GT, my 4.0L right now is nothing to scoff at because of the stuff I got for it, yes its the standard FRPP CAI and X-Pipe and a Bamma tuner(93oct), but it runs a semi-respectable 15.oo flat 1/4 mile at 91mph, hasn't lost a race yet at Midnight Madness at Gateway Motorsports Park. Its quite a fun little thing to drive.

Milky > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 01:01

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Sorry but whenever I see these rims I'm like

Lets Just Drive > Your boy, BJR 10/11/2013 at 01:04

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It'd work so long as the customers didn't know they were buying an Aussie engine.

I mean, Cologne ain't in America, so maybe my logic am drunk.

Lets Just Drive > GhostZ 10/11/2013 at 01:05

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Well, there's no question that it can be. My wonder was more towards the idea that; what if Ford had made the Mustang better earlier, from the dealership? But yeah, I'm no stranger.

And it can be done for far less.

Lets Just Drive > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 10/11/2013 at 01:09

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See, I don't disagree but the argument can be made that a great many cars are built for the aftermarket while offering better (perceived) value for dollar performance as compared to the Mustang (particularly the early S197) and that even in that category the Mustang isn't a stand-out contender.

Regardless, and it's not that I disagree about aftermarket build options, I was more considering the idea of the vehicle being "better" from the dealer, more competitive in terms of equipment offered for the price asked.

Lets Just Drive > Milky 10/11/2013 at 01:10

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They took a while to grow on me, but they're just the stockers anyway and will be going the way of the spare-wheels soon enough.

But that's a good point; this is a stock wheel and I'm tossing around the idea of a better from-the-dealer stock car.

Lets Just Drive > Cherry_man1 10/11/2013 at 01:14

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Don't get me wrong, I love my Mustang.

But it's not a sharp or precise car. It's fun, don't get me wrong, and even a low speeds can feel like it's on the edge, and it feels great running down the miles, but it's not, and I fucking hate to use this term, "European" good. Okay, that's broad, and I'm not trying to shit on anyone or their car, but I'm just saying that, from the manufacturer and for the price, there have been/are cars that are arguably "better" than the stock Mustang competitor.

I love it. I love it hard.

But there are times when I wonder about quality, about handling. About what the car could have been like, if Ford had developed it a bit more and asked maybe $5k more to start?

Frank Grimes > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 01:15

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I don't know why these don't get love when they look a lot like cobra wheels maybe the offset and narrow width.

Lets Just Drive > Frank Grimes 10/11/2013 at 01:17

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You nailed it.

It's almost perfect but off just enough that it can really put people off. They were supposed to be a tribute version of the Shelby Racing wheels, available on the base cars (and an option on the PP). But they're not chrome finished, like the original, and the don't fit the car quite right.

That said, if I were nice and wealthy, I'd love to have proper versions of these made, wider and about an inch or two bigger. I'd fly 'em all day.

Milky > Frank Grimes 10/11/2013 at 01:18

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Nope, because it means base V6. Sorry but I'm not a fan of the V6 until like 2011 or whenever the 3.7 came out.

Milky > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 01:18

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I'm saying this because it means you have the V6 .... and I don't understand that.

Soloburrito > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 01:20

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It'll always be at a disadvantage over bumpy roads, but aside from that, it's the quintessential "not bad" car.

The motor pulls well and loves to rev. Not bad.

It's easy to get the car to rotate when accelerating or decelerating. Not bad.

You can drive one off the lot with Recaros, Brembos, Torsen diff and upgrading radiator/oil cooler for under $35k. Not bad.

It may be a pig, but compared to similar cars, it's a pig on a diet. Not bad.

Lets Just Drive > Milky 10/11/2013 at 01:21

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Because the price was right.

And because I have ambitions for my 4.0L.

But mostly because I've always wanted to explain myself to guys like you.

That last bit was sarcasm.

Lets Just Drive > Soloburrito 10/11/2013 at 01:22

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Yeah. Um, I'm not even sure how to respond.

So...

This.

Milky > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 01:24

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The last part was funny ...

... but I'm not being converted today, maybe once you do something, but not today sir.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 01:30

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It's not a stand out contender stock (Some higher end models, such as the Shelby and Boss 302 are). The difference is the Mustang aftermarket is so much bigger than almost every other car. There are websites and magazines just for the Mustang. The Mustang has had it;s dark days, and the S197s weren't particularly powerful or good at cornering, especially stock. But you could make them fast. If you want "better" from the dealer, buy an M3, it's your $70k. Or a Corvette if you have the cash and the space for a 2 seater. But for similar money (or any money), what beats the Mustang for aftermarket?

Soloburrito > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 01:30

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For what it's worth, I think the S550 is going to be great. I kind of hope they stick with port injection for year one. I'd trade in my '13 for that in a second. I have an unreasonable fear of direct injection.

offroadkarter > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 02:07

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I'm not sure why people keep saying the 2010+ cars have such a bad interior. Compared to the camaro or the challenger, let alone the 05-09 cars, they are lightyears ahead in the quality department

ZeroOrDie - Powered By MZR > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 09:57

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As a ford fan I am right there with ya man. I would say there is an eternal struggle with the bean counters. What is the motivation for them to spend more and possibly lose it on the sale. And for what it is it out performs most of its competition in stock form. Lighter than the other pony cars and cheaper. It is basically competing with the camaros and hemi variants. I don't think they are fighting too hard against foreign cars because they are made here and can be sold cheaper.

So it seems they design them to a price point. Like others have said they are to be modded in the aftermarket. They couldnt possibly have a drag pack trim, road racing trim, drifting trim, rally trim, etc. That would cost a lot of money to develop...unless it was your main business. Enter the aftermarket. Ford racing parts are expensive man. But they are there for you if you want it. There are still some brake and handling packages available while you configure your car from the dealer. So if you want to come in cheap you are gonna go base v8 mustang with hardly any options you know and build from there.

For example the 4.0 v6 drive shaft. Two piece, heavy, and pretty weak. They designed it to a point. Set the governor and sold it. People digitally removed the speed governor and then tried to go 140mph on the stock drive shaft. Guess what it wasn't designed for that so it exploded. Weird!? No. I think they have accomplished something because people commonly refer to the mustang v8 as the best bang for your buck out there. 300hp v8 right off the show room floor and its affordable? Same price as much lesser cars? Nice price!

I see the S197 as a great platform and regularly cruise classifieds for someone who doesnt know what they have and puts it up for way too cheap. I'll jump on it in a heart beat. Then mod the shit out of it to my liking. The interior? Eh. Like I said they make it basic so it is cheap. It will last and it is kind of retro so I can't complain. If I buy one will I rip most of it out to save weight. Yup.

I dunno I love the S197 for what it is. Even in the boxy body style shown. Nice interiors are for luxury cars and daily drivers with no soul. This is neither.

Hindered23 > Your boy, BJR 10/11/2013 at 11:06

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no

Hindered23 > Your boy, BJR 10/11/2013 at 11:07

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just no

Bruno Martini > Lets Just Drive 10/11/2013 at 11:28

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I think you need to look at things as they are and not through the eyes of a jurnalist.

Lets get the facts straight.

You own an 06 mustang, which looks to be damn near base. So in 06 it was under 20k to buy new with a 200hp engine. BTW, at the time the most power for under 20k new.

I had an 07 with the 4.6L 3v engine. It had leather interior, yes real leather and there is a difference in leather between the 6cyl and the v8 of the time. It made 300hp stock at the time and cost me 26.4k out the door back in 07. I had the premium interior which gave me a real aluminum dashboard. The surface finish on the dashboard was plastic, hard plastic. So were the doors. The headliner was soft suple finish and it had quality carpets in it. With that being said at the time a buddy of mine bought himself a 3 series bmw. He paid mid 30's for it. Yes his is a 4 door mine was a 2 door. His car made a bit over 200hp stock. After 5 years my cars interior was no worse for the wear, although I did treat the leather every year to keep it fresh. His is ripping at all the usual points. My car also had over 65k on it when I got into an accident and was sadly totaled. The engine and drivetrain was better than any car that had that kind of mileage while being driven hard had a right to be. It never burned an anouce of oil and never had issues. His smokes blue every time he starts it cold, today his car has had the roof and trunk resprayed as the paint was peeling, and the engine is still in the low 30k miles as he babies the thing.

I can blow smoke up your ass and kive you kill stories that were on the street at that time, I no longer drive like that on the street so the point is mute. However there have been many a 370z and M3 owner that got spanked and asked what kind of mods I had.

Let me put it this way, the s197 chassis is the best one yet in a mustang, the proof is in the pudding, the current model which I also own is damn near perfect for an SRA car, it can put a hurt on a current m3 and its easier to drive and maintain while costing nearly 1/2 as much. With mustangs you have to understand the chassis, and option it and or modify it so you turn its preceived weaknesses into strengths. The boss302 demolishes m3's while still being over 20k less. Hand built engine you say? CNC ported heads? Forged rotating assembly? Check check check mate. Stock gt's are being modified to ridiculous levels day in and out, the boss's are hitting 700rwhp with forced induction and a tune. The chassis today is way better than first gen s197, I owned both. But the first gen s197 was my sweet heart.

Putting it short, if you want a BMW go buy one. IF you want a mustang get one and be an educated consumer. The alacart options that ford offers can be both a good and a bad thing. want 9/10th's of a boss302 get a brembo pack 5.0.

Here is mine, let the next bmw owner talk smack. It can show them sequential tail lights all day long on twistiest or the 1/4 mile.

gamefreak32 > Lets Just Drive 10/15/2013 at 22:46

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It is because the wheels have too much going on. Look at the styling of the rest of the car, it is plain and rounded off. The wheels look complex and angular. They stick out and don't match the rest of the car. The 2011+ car (which I own) has more angles and lines in the body with similar looking wheels. If you take away those crazy center caps, marginally increase the diameter and width, and narrow the spokes it is identical to the 2011+ wheel.

gamefreak32 > Lets Just Drive 10/15/2013 at 23:21

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Honestly the only thing wrong with the 2005-10 Mustang was the V6 and it amounted to 2 poor design decisions, the motor and suspension. The Mondeo 3.0 V6 should have been put in it. The suspension was nowhere near sports car level in the 05-10 V6. Live rear axle bitching=bad suspension. The 05-10 GT suspension was good. So good that the same suspension parts are still alive in the 2011-14 V6. A lot of new FWD cars use a solid rear axle design and you hear nothing about it.

Interior is appropriate for the price range. I actually like my cheap base V6 interior. The touch points are good, the rest is mediocre. I don't feel that bad about scratching the plastic around the keyhole, hitting my shoe against the door, or getting it dirty.

frank1946@aol.com > Lets Just Drive 08/09/2014 at 01:15

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Pretty car, powerful (3.7 305 HP),good brakes, quiet, sounds great, 6 speed MT182 is

excellent, $ 18,232.00 after rebates and A Plan Discount.

As Good As It Gets for the price !

ccwebb > Lets Just Drive 04/28/2015 at 17:04

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Former 993 owner and current S197 owner here. Love them both. You do have some BMW under your Ford. The S197’s front suspension not so coincidentally is incredibly similar to a BMW. As far as the solid rear axle goes, yes...an independent rear suspension does ultimately handle mid-corner steering better. That said, the performance capability of the solid rear axle is perhaps the single most misunderstood thing amongst driving “enthusiasts”. For those detractors I submit that the solid rear axle Mustang has won on road courses but they don’t have to take my word for it. Example: Who won the 2013 BMW 200? Hint: It wasn’t any of the Porsches on the track and rather ironically it wasn’t any of the BMWs on the track...it was a solid rear axle Mustang. Also, take a look at the track test that Motor Trend conducted: The 2011 M3 vs. bone stock 2011 Mustang GT (still solid rear axle) both driven by Randy Pobst on the Streets of Willow Springs Track. The results? The M3 won...by .09 second...literally less time than the blink of a human eye. Don’t forget that the guys who conducted this track test are the same guys who have been peeing in their pants over the BMW’s handling for the past 30 years.