Bikelopnik Question

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 10/10/2013 at 10:14 • Filed to: None

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I ride 11 miles a day for exercise, most of it on neighborhood surface streets. And I try to signal all of my turns when there are cars around, and always at stop signs on bigger streets. However, most drivers, if they're looking at me at all, seem utterly flummoxed by my signals, particularly my old-school right turn signal. I've seen other bikers stick out their right arm to signal a right turn, but that just seems wrong to me, although I guess it's clearer. So, how many of you Jalop cyclists signal, and do you use the old-fashioned left-arm-only signalling? And how many drivers do you think actually know what the hell you are doing?

duurtlang > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:18

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I signal, but only if it impacts other drivers. Left arm = left turn, right arm = right turn. That's how I was taught at school and by my parents as a kid, and everybody gets it. I've never witnessed the pictured signals.

Bluecold > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:18

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Signalling is for losers.

At least, that's the prevailing opinion here in the Netherlands. No cyclist signals. Ever. I only signal when I'm feeling exceptionally generous or if I deem the situation dangerous. If I'm in a car, I assume no cyclist is going to signal. Usually you can predict in advance what the cyclist is going to do by body language.

Nibbles > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:19

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Your signals look fine to me; that's how I remember being taught.

It works the same way for motorcycles as well. How can you signal with your right hand, when it's the one on the throttle?

dieselwagon > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:21

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Problem with the old fashioned way, is that no one is taught it anymore and those who were probably have not ridden a bicycle in decades and have since forgotten.

As Duurtlang mentioned, use left and right arms for signaling, much better chance of people understanding. Not all of them will, but some people are just stupid.

Bluecold > Nibbles 10/10/2013 at 10:22

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Cruise control.

dinobot666 > Bluecold 10/10/2013 at 10:23

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That's because you live in a very bicycle friendly country. The same cannot be said for the vast majority of the US.

Nibbles > Bluecold 10/10/2013 at 10:24

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Silly goose, bikes don't have cruise control!

(yes I know a lot of them do these days but, if you're needing to signal by hand, does your bike have cruise control?)

ttyymmnn > Nibbles 10/10/2013 at 10:24

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Or the rear brake. Assuming you're actually going to stop at the stop sign before you turn, which many cyclists don't do.

dogisbadob > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:24

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I thought stop was with a bent arm, like the right turn gesture, except pointing down

Mattbob > duurtlang 10/10/2013 at 10:24

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The pictured signals are what I learned in drivers ed to use when your blinkers don't work or some such situation.

ttyymmnn > dieselwagon 10/10/2013 at 10:24

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I'd rather not remove my right hand from the brake when I'm slowing to the corner. As on a motorcycle, using the left hand makes more sense.

ttyymmnn > dogisbadob 10/10/2013 at 10:25

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It is. Yours is a better illustration.

Mattbob > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:26

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Drivers don't pay attention these days. I can excitedly point that I am going to turn left, and cars will still start to pass before I can. Mother fuckers. I hardly ever ride on the road, just to get to trails, but when I do, I hate it.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > duurtlang 10/10/2013 at 10:29

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They're the long time traditional US signals. People in the Boy Scouts here are taught that if there is a cycling program, and many other avenues teach those signals as well, or did at one time. The pictured signals are the way they are partly because they're meant as universal signals that work with motor vehicles sans turn signals as well - older cars, cars with broken signals, farm vehicles, and the like. It also works with motorcycles with a hand throttle.

I learned them as a kid, but it's possible in the time since (I'm 27) there's been continued fade in their teaching. It was weak back then, but present.

ttyymmnn > Mattbob 10/10/2013 at 10:30

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That's why I stay in the neighborhoods. I trust nobody. I do, however, have one of those super bright blinky lights on the front. I'm certain that drivers have swerved or stayed in their driveways because they see me coming.

duurtlang > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 10/10/2013 at 10:32

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I'm 30, but not American. That must be the difference.

Tekamul > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:33

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I cycle.

I don't signal.

There is never really a situation along my ride that would merit a signal to cars. There are only 2 left turns on my ride in either direction. On the way in, actually riding with traffic at those turns would get me killed (0-50 drag races amongst asshats on roads without bike lanes, and one with 0 shoulder). On the way home, one in a quite neighborhood with no cars, the other is done through a hotel lot.

In your case, those are the right signals (the stop looks a little weak, should be more of a right angle in the elbow). Everyone who has taken drivers ed should recognize them. They've been the standard since before cars had blinkers (which is why it's always with the left arm).

As for drivers knowing what you are doing, I'm sure most don't. That kind of attention to detail would lead to good driving, which few are capable of.

PelicanHazard > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:36

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I've seen a clever adaptation where the guy put his left arm up like the traditional 'right turn' signal but pointed with his index finger to the right over his head. Combines both the traditional method and the simpler 'just point right' into one motion that was unusual enough that people noticed him.

Mattbob > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:37

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when I get a road bike I will have to build a sweet light setup for it. I need a good project. As of right now it doesn't make sense on the MTB. Ain't nobody got time for a blinky light on the trails. It would just break off anyway, like my computer did.

Thunder > Mattbob 10/10/2013 at 10:40

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In my own neighborhood one day, 1/4 mile from home.

Nice little downhill before turning left onto my street. As I arrive at the stop sign at the top of that hill, I see a car approaching it; I easily pass through the intersection before they arrive at it.

So... now it's a 25 zone. I'm significantly in excess of it, probably around 35. I signal left, and come within inches of physically hitting the car as it passes me doing probably 50.

One second later, I would have been starting that turn.

Thunder > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:42

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I signal almost everything, using the traditional signals you posted.

When on the tandem with my son, I tell him to signal.

The signal you're missing, BTW, is the wave-past, when I can see over a hill or around a curve before the car behind can. A close cousin to that is the HOLD IT, for the same situation with oncoming traffic.

Another variation is to use the traditional signals, but add pointing to the right with your left index finger as part of the left arm bent upwards signal. I don't use that, but I've seen it.

Bravo on doing 11 miles a day. I try, but don't get out as often as I like.

vdub_nut: scooter snob > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:42

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I always thought right turn was dumb as hell, because your arm makes an L, which I had assumed meant "left". Then again, the signal for left is blatantly just pointing to the left. I think the reason it's not just "point where you're going" is because you can't extend your right arm out the window in a car.

And only other bikers know what I mean when I signal, anyways.

ttyymmnn > vdub_nut: scooter snob 10/10/2013 at 10:45

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Yes, the signals come from driving and only having your left arm available to stick out the window. There might also be some influence from motorcycling, and not wanting to remove your right hand from the throttle.

ttyymmnn > Thunder 10/10/2013 at 10:46

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Well, not every day. Something invariably comes up, but I try to ride more than I don't, which means 4/7 days most weeks.

vdub_nut: scooter snob > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:47

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Wouldn't you need to slow down though? You are turning... Either way, I use my left arm for left, and my right arm for right while biking.

I use my middle fingers interchangeably, however.

ttyymmnn > Mattbob 10/10/2013 at 10:48

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I don't ride trails, but I do use my phone and GPS to track ride data. I've got an excellent bracket by SlipGrip . Very sturdy and holds very tight to the phone.

Thunder > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:51

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Still better than me.

I had been doing about the same for a while, but rarely for as long as I wanted.

Then work got busy again, and it was the end of that. Now, I might get out three days a week, for maybe 10 miles on two of those, and perhaps 30-50 once a week. I pay for the latter, though - my wife doesn't appreciate those multi-hour disappearances.

ttyymmnn > Thunder 10/10/2013 at 10:53

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It's significantly easier for me, since I'm a stay-home dad. I ride with our boys to school and then hit the road. Never done more than 20 miles, though.

Chteelers > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 10:55

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Little known fact: Hand signals are perfectly acceptable for regular use in cars, as well.

ttyymmnn > Chteelers 10/10/2013 at 11:00

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Quite. My step father (way back in the day) had a '32 Ford roadster (kit, I think) that he would drag race. It was also street legal, and we would go for rides on the weekend. No turn signals in that puppy, only hands.

MikeMeade > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 11:16

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I ride a little more than a dozen miles a day for my daily commute in Portland. Here, everyone knows the signals and mostly behaves. I use signals when I want cars to know that I am going to be impacting them, otherwise I just ride without.

The big thing that makes signaling work here is that we have a ton of people on bikes. Most people in cars in Portland are actually looking for bikes and signals these days. Of course the further you get out into the suburbs, the worse it is.

I use the signals you use. I have one hand brake on my bike, and I relocated it to the right side so that I can both signal and brake at the same time.

Thunder > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 11:17

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I'm full-time work-from-home.

That sounds great, but it's become apparent that WFH is code for "Work All Hours, All The Time".

Some days, I can take 'lunch' as a quick ride, about 10 miles with prep and postride cleanup. Occasionally, I might do 15 or so.

My nightmare is a flat right at my farthest extreme from home. I had one once; I rode the rest of the way home leaning way back on the bike and stopping every mile or so to put some more air in the front tire. I made it just in time for my next call.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 11:21

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In Michigan while our largest city (Detroit) is bankrupt,(though we finally have a balanced state budget) our state assembly just spent time/money on approving a new right hand turn signal for biking using your right arm. The old left arm to turn right is still approved and a proper signal, but the new one is done with the right arm.

Just thought I'd share the idiocy in which our state government functions.

ttyymmnn > MikeMeade 10/10/2013 at 11:30

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We've got tons of bikes here in Austin, but most of the casual riders ride with a sense of entitlement, particularly downtown. They can be a real nuisance. The way I see it, a bicycle should be driven the same way you would drive a car. But then again, how many drivers do you see who don't use their turn signals?

Mattbob > ttyymmnn 10/10/2013 at 12:32

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ahh, I just throw my phone in my camelbak inside of its otterbox for endomondo tracking. I fall way too much to not destroy a phone if it were on the handlebars. I broke a computer this year, and have just kept stuff off the bars since then.