According to a letter in Nov. C&D, automatics are for "grown-ups"

"Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull" (RamblinRover) 10/07/2013 at 18:51 • Filed to: raving delusional assbucket

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(Spot the fallacies, kids!)
What is it with you guys? I read the article on the Porsche 918, and again you wished it had a stick shift. When are your writers going to grow up? Why the need to use your left leg and right arm? Carmakers have made automatics very efficient and have even made available manual controls for those who wish to remember the old days. I know you and your cohorts deem yourselves racers of sorts, and that is probably why shifting for yourself hangs on. Most race cars have automatics now.
I have a suggestion for the urge that you all must feel. Use your left foot to brake (that takes care of that part) and use your right hand to adjust the multitude of controls and screens. That should, along with entering adulthood, take care of your desire to do it yourselves.

Bud Kelley
Santa Maria, CA

EL_ULY > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 10/07/2013 at 18:57

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pardon my English but, no mames guey!

Paul, Man of Mustangs > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 10/07/2013 at 18:59

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I hate when I'm told what to think, especially when it's something as preferential as manual vs. automatic. I simply have more fun slipping the clutch or downshifting into a corner than waiting for an automatic to shift or power-braking a burnout.

Somethingwittyer likes noisy > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 10/07/2013 at 18:59

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I swear after the R&T relaunchC&D became MT. The reader letters however, have always been horrid. My favorite was when some one complained the Golf GTI was too expensive, in a tone that made it seem it was completely unattainable, and that the shootout between the Focus ST was completely useless. He then said they should review cars for the "average joe", by which I'm assuming he meant Camries.

GreenN_Gold > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 10/07/2013 at 19:13

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No surprise that an advocate of the automatic transmission is also an advocate of left foot braking and touchscreens in cars.

webmonkees > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 10/07/2013 at 19:23

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Left foot braking bad. It'll even throw an error on some car computers.

Even if you have two left feet, use the rightmost left.

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > EL_ULY 10/07/2013 at 19:25

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While we're dealing in not-English phrases on the subject of manuals, I think a "molon labe" is also appropriate.

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > GreenN_Gold 10/07/2013 at 19:33

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Note also that in two immediately adjacent sentences he says they shouldn't want a manual, and also says, apropos of nothing and in a brain fart related to nothing else he said, that car makers offer manuals for people who want them. Er, yes. In enthusiast cars, mostly. Which a 918 is. I venture to propose that not a person in the world is buying the 918 solely for its advanced touchscreens and other modernities, which means even if his premise were true, there's no basis on which an (alleged) nostalgia factor should not be made available. Also, in claiming a place in nostalgia and nostalgia only for the manual, he shoots directly in the head the claim that it's for children - because children by definition are not those subject to nostalgia... Not to mention the unwont "I know what you're thinking" arrogant lines of discussion, which would be laughed out of middle-school debate club.

Here's a premise: this man is a fucking imbecile.

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 10/07/2013 at 19:36

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I still remember a reader letter from 1996 that was one long burst of insanity reading innuendos into one of their reviews. Actually rather hilarious, but not quite right in the head, either. The expected "fiddling with knob" stuff, but also stuff that took more work.

DavidHH > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 10/07/2013 at 19:42

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With the exception of Honda, I have never broken a manual transmission. I have never fried a clutch, but did have a 20+ year old pressure plate fail. One of the most common reason that people are junking a car rather than servicing, is the cost of repairing the broken automatic. Needless to say, with a manual trans I have never had to a brake job because they simply wore out, I have had to fix the brakes only because a part failed, like a caliper, or rotor.

I have avoided auto's since I discovered that they don't downshift, unless it won't over rev the engine. So if you happen to be going down the continental divide, the guard rail will stop you, but the auto trans won't. The funny thing is that I can stop my E-150 simply by turning the ignition on the dash off and leaving it's manual trans in gear.

So how is this childish?

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > DavidHH 10/07/2013 at 19:51

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I'd agree on the brakes thing - the age of the auto has trained far, far too many people into the "fast pedal/slow pedal" driving paradigm.

I fear that someone writing a letter to C&D on the topic of what a driver should and should not be doing while driving (pressing buttons and fiddling with buttons: now a holy part of the driving experience!) in an irascible attempt to state authority he does not have, is in fact childish himself. In other words Likely Trust Kid Boorish California Manchild Bud Kelley is projecting like a mofo.

RMudkips > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 10/07/2013 at 19:52

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Should I be glad I forgot to renew my C&D then?

zadtheinhaler > RMudkips 10/07/2013 at 19:58

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Yup, I haven't been able to take it seriously for a very long time.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 10/07/2013 at 20:02

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I hope to Christ this fuck wit is sterile. If not I think I need to book a flight to Cali for the sake of the human gene pool.

Bakkster, touring car driver > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 10/07/2013 at 20:55

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" Most race cars have automatics now. "

Nope.

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > Bakkster, touring car driver 10/07/2013 at 20:59

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Yeah, I was wondering if that particular rotten brain-slug dropping would attract comment. What I mean to say is, what? One can only assume he thought he meant automated manuals/DCTs, but even then, er...

Bakkster, touring car driver > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 10/07/2013 at 21:19

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Even then, most cars with any automation are only no lift upshift sequentials. Hardly 'automatic', especially with a dog box.

TheMyth Is Swingin' A 440 > DavidHH 10/07/2013 at 21:27

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The "ancient" 727 automatic in my Dart actually lets me engine brake more than any automatic I've ever had before. Even the 727 in my old Dart didn't do that. It's real nice since my health prevents me from driving a manual for too long.

TheMyth Is Swingin' A 440 > webmonkees 10/07/2013 at 21:29

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I have to left foot brake my Dart because it doesn't have power brakes and my legs are weak from an injury. I'm ok with power brakes, though. But, unless you have a good excuse like that, you should never left foot brake.

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > Bakkster, touring car driver 10/07/2013 at 21:37

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True. Secretly, ascribing any kind of sense-making to him is my way of mitigating my head full of fuck. He doesn't deserve any.

webmonkees > TheMyth Is Swingin' A 440 10/08/2013 at 00:51

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Yes, I did not mean to exclude medical or mechanical reasons. :)

Tentacle, Dutchman, drives French > webmonkees 10/08/2013 at 05:13

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Depends on what you're doing.

If you're rallying an AWD car, applying the brake while on the throttle will change the balance of the car, sending more torque to the rear. You do not move your right foot from pure throttle to the middle pedal, and then use your heel to apply power, you use your left foot.

Similarly, balance of the car can be changed when braking under throttle on a RWD car, allowing you to change understeer into oversteer. Again, changing from right foot on the throttle to right foot on the brake while heel-and-toe'ing, or side-flipping, will be more difficult than just using your left foot.

One more, but from BTCC instread of WRC, so it is used in touring car racing as well:

webmonkees > Tentacle, Dutchman, drives French 10/08/2013 at 07:35

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My concern was more the reverse, that' a left braking technique would lead to incidents like when both pedals are pushed. Rally technique is a whole other beast. I'd probably run my manual-shifting smart-ass right off the first turn.

Tentacle, Dutchman, drives French > webmonkees 10/08/2013 at 08:30

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You're right. Left foot braking has no place in normal public road driving. Really, you don't need it.

But, having said that, once you get into the fun of driving a manual, you can put certain racing techniques to use on the road. No, not that you need it, it's purely because you can. And that's where left foot braking comes in. It's joined by heel-and-toe'ing (though I side-flip instead), trail braking, rev-matching, clutch-less shifting (albeit very very rarely!) and more.

I LFB regularly during my commute because I like the technical aspect of driving and I take pride in riding smoothly. One particular 90° lefthander begs for trail braking with my left foot, allowing me to gently transition from braking to accelerating at the apex of the corner.

Was LFB'ing ever part of my driving lessons? Nope. Do I need it? Nope. Am I having fun at the occasional opportunity to put it to use? Yes. Oh, and yes, I did slightly catapult myself into my seatbelt a few times. That's part of learning LFB'ing.

DavidHH > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 10/08/2013 at 14:41

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The accelerate / brake driving is one thing. Another is that I simple do not use the brakes often. The trip to Cosco for me involves using the brakes a few times, when the other drivers seem to have their brake lights on often. Most automatics freewheel so they have to use the brakes more often.

DavidHH > TheMyth Is Swingin' A 440 10/08/2013 at 14:47

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Some auto's freewheel more than others. And some will only downshift, when it is safe for the engine. I'm going to assume that you have the push button auto that just won't die. If so I wonder if it's ability to slow the car has anything to do with the inability of 1960's brakes.

webmonkees > Tentacle, Dutchman, drives French 10/08/2013 at 17:17

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Exactly. Thought and planning go into it.In fact, I think I need to do some more thinking and planning. I have a tendency towards no brakes to mess with tailgaters. Whoah tricky curve coming up, bud.

TheMyth Is Swingin' A 440 > DavidHH 10/08/2013 at 23:12

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The 727 only kicks down when the revs come down when I'm slowing down, unless I'm on the gas and the kickdown hits. I'm nowhere near as rough on it as I am in minivan so I haven't found it's limits as to how high it'll let it rev and downshift. Damn motor's worth more than the car so I baby it lol.

It's not the push button, I think they quit making those in 63 or 64 if I'm remembering right, too tired to look it up right now. My uncle has a 63 Dart convertible with the push button that he bought brand new and I'm hugely jealous of it. I think a good bit of the engine braking I experience is at least partially attributable to the heaviness of the 440's rotating mass. Those are big, heavy engines. And thankfully I've got modern Wilwood discs up front on this one; I had stock discs on my 75 and yeah they're nowhere near as good at stopping as modern brakes. 4-wheel drums are even worse.

DavidHH > TheMyth Is Swingin' A 440 10/10/2013 at 15:58

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Most auto's only will downshift when the rev's drop, which is why I put a car into the guard rail. The same appears to be true about the new dual clutch automatics, that you can't force it to slow down if the brakes fail.

The push button auto's were unkillable, at one point a friend had one in his charger, which made it a bit slower, and weird. Your uncles 63 Dart, was one of the few "good cars" the auto industry made, especially the slant six models. A "good car" is serviceable, reliable and durable. Most cars are only fair at best, and I don't know if anything made today is even almost serviceable.