The Opposite Lock Solution: The Group Cruise/Ride

"Lets Just Drive" (lets-just-drive)
10/04/2013 at 20:42 • Filed to: None

I think we can all agree that what happened in New York City was a terrible incident all around. Yes, I'm talking about the Range Rover VS Motorcycles thing, and I call it a "thing" because I'm lost for a word which properly describes how I feel. I think a lot of us are in the same boat.

So let's start with the mantra, "Two Wheels Bad."

We're car guys (and gals) by and large, but as with most dudes (and dudettes) who're into cars, our tastes often include other forms of motorized transport. Planes, trains and automobiles, people. We're generally all about all of it and we're generally a pretty tolerant bunch here on Oppo. That said, we're always pushing the gag that four wheels are better than two, maybe because the car theme is stronger in the fourc-ylinder. Having said all that, we've got a great group of bike enthusiasts around Oppo and I know that in my personal life some of my best friends ride, so it's obvious really; we're just busting balls across the fraternity.

But what happened in NYC was something all together different and sadly, not uncommon. And the thing of it is; we're all prone to the same behavior. It's fundamentally human, that mob mentality, and it'll cause people to act in a way they may otherwise not, that they may otherwise detest. I know, I've been there. It's peer pressure, and when a group of car guys gets into the same situation, shutting down traffic and taking possession of the public roadways, it looks bad for the entire fraternity. I lived in Vancouver, during the Stanley Cup riot, and saw people who would otherwise be considered upstanding members of their communities behave in a way that, outside of the mob, would be considered childish and antisocial. Caught up in the mob, however; they say it's like being drunk and for many people reason goes right out the window, or through the window of a shop.

That's what I think happened in NYC. Unfortunately, even after the more rational members of the mob had spent their rage, others took up the charge and those others, for the most part, were the real "bad guys". Look, it really sucks that people were hurt, that someone may never walk again and that an entire family was terrorized by and will never regard the same way, motorcyclists.

It's over now. It's done. All we can do now is try to understand why it happened, determine who was really at fault and what levels of responsibility those individuals bare and hopefully find a way of preventing this kind of thing in the future.

Unfortunately, it's too easy to throw a blanket on the situation and call it done. It's too easy to cast all bikers in the same mold. The danger for us, as car guys, is that we could very easily feel the same negative reaction. Heck, I've commented time and again on the differences between the "grown up" approach to meets and rides/cruises and the "wrong" approach. One considers the area, the people and buisnesses who live and operate there, and seeks to be of benefit to the area hosting the event. The other says, "Fuck you, I'm'a do what I want to." It's not hard to figure out which one works better. It's also not hard to realize that one group is fucking it up for the other while that other group is constantly trying to repair the civic relationships destroyed by the selfish and ungrateful.

So what is the solution?

Do we crack down on the motorcycle clubs, or on the entire enthusiast community? Can we hold the bikers responsible for setting out to have fun at the expense of others? Or is there a greater issue here?

A million men marched, once. The marched for change, and it worked. Sometimes I wonder if these groups think they're doing the same thing, if they think they're advancing their cause and making the culture more socially acceptable. A part of me wonders if they even realize that what they're actually doing is setting the groundwork for legislation against their hobby, that they're sowing the seeds of destruction in the garden of their own passion. A part of me wonders if the collective maturity level of these groups averages about seventeen, regardless of actual age.

I used to be one, thankfully not for long. I was a young man, feeling my oats, and driving like an arrogant youth. Unlike many, even among my friends, I outgrew that irrational rage at society fairly quickly and now, at only 32, I see guys who're in my age group behaving like teenagers and understand that it has absolutely nothing to do with physical age and everything to do with mental maturity.

So, here's my solution; legislation.

Find a way, through legislation, to force these groups to make a choice to either grow up and cooperate or have their toys taken away. Set up dragnets, when these events are in the wind, and check every single rider or driver for proper documentation. Sure, it's a pain in the ass, but if their goal is to be a pain in the ass, they can damn well take a little. If the numbers are too high, and there's no permit permitting the event, shut that shit down but make it public knowledge you're changing the laws, make it well known that if you participate in this kind of event without the proper permits, you're done - toys taken away and the right to operate them revoked.

Here, in Canada and in BC in particular, we've got some fairly draconian rules when it comes to this kind of thing and as well as it's worked, I think it's only a half measure. We, as a society, need to accept responsibility for our own safety and the safety of those around us. We need to be individually and socially responsible and we need to accept that those who cannot play along need to be put on a time out, period.

It takes two years to get your license here, and it's a start. But like the Scandinavians, we need to use that time to teach our new and young drivers not only how to operate safely but how to be productive members of the automotive culture. Two years is plenty of time to ensure a driver has not only the skills to drive safely but desire to do so.

In BC, if you street race you can have your car taken away. In BC, if you participate in an event like the one in NYC you are considered to be acting in the full knowledge that you're in contravention of the law and that you're subject to whatever reprisal said law deems necessary. Sure, some people cry foul but it's hard to make your case when you're caught doing one hundred and twenty miles per hour along at 80km/h road especially when you're doing it alongside one or more cars doing the same. And that's where I think it breaks down, that's where the ultimate blame, in my opinion, falls upon every single biker participating - everyone involved carries some of the weight of responsibility - but it will be through making examples of those we can that we send the clear message that this won't be tolerated.

You want to do a group ride? Fine. Go about it correctly. You want to stunt around? No problem if you've got around 300 people involved and you get everyone to pay a small fee so that you and your crew can rent a track for the day. But don't shut down a public road. Don't fuck over your fellow man and don't be surprised when you get your dick burned because you were busy having sex with a Bunsen burner.

To the family of the injured rider; I'm really sorry your loved one got hurt. I really am. But maybe quit playing the victim card and accept some of the responsibility that comes with participating in this massive, illegal event. Hey may never walk again? No? You're saying he will never walk again? Glad you have faith, glad you're not clearly sucking up to the public as "victims" because you're really doing yourself and your loved one proud... NOT! Here's what you need to be saying, "We're really upset and saddened that our family member was injured and we are praying for him. We hope he'll recover but he may never walk again. This should be a reminder to everyone out there that these things aren't toys!"

To the family of the driver; I am so sorry. Full stop. You got caught up in a mob, and something terrible happened. The mob reacted predictably and you did a good job of keeping your family safe. On behalf of the authorities, who won't say as much, I think you deserve a massive apology because, if you ask me, the responsibility for preventing this kind of thing lies with them. They knew it was happening and either failed to or were not properly equipped to prevent it. If you ask me, the whole ride should have been shut down before it started. And please don't blame every biker, because I know quite a few who say that, had they been there, they'd have been among the voices of reason calling upon the aggressors to let the authorities respond (the only problem being that the mature, responsible riders wouldn't have been involved with an event like this to begin with).

To the bikers who're incensed; you played with fire, you got burned. Maybe next time, don't play with fire? That, or take a moment to put on some fireproof garb. Oh, and keep your flaming shit the fuck out of everyone's day. Thanks.

In summary, I'd favor legislation. But I'm a Canadian and that could be a key difference. Maybe I'm missing something, and I'd wager I am so I'm calling on my fellow Opponauts to voice their opinions but I'd ask that since this isn't the FP, we at least try and keep a civil tone about it even if someone suggests that the driver should have been packing heat.

DISCUSSION (45)

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 20:46

Hah, legislation that will never work in America. Otherwise good read, but legislation lol.

Lets Just Drive > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/04/2013 at 20:51

Can you touch on why you feel that way?

If not, no biggie. Just curious is all.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 20:55

Google Congress.

Lets Just Drive > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/04/2013 at 21:03

I was really more interested in your opinion but that's okay too. Thanks.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 21:15

Those stupid fucks can't agree on anything that doesn't benefit them. I campaigned with an Independent guy trying to run for representative because ever time he spoke he made sense. And what happened? He got destroyed in the election. He ran again later as a Democrat, and he didn't change his views at all. Lost in the primarys. Later on corporations were allowed to make unlimited and anonymous campaign contributions, because they're "People too" fuck that. Soylent Green is People.

And now the republicans want to repeal the health care act, despite the fact that it is a law, makes sense, and people want it. Therefore the federal government is shut down. To say that I don't have respect for these people is a gross under statement. Extreme Democrats suck, Extreme Republicans suck. The Moderates on both sides are fucking pussies. Nothing productive can be accomplished because douchebag A doesn't like douchebag B and no compromise can be met. I hate what this shit has become.

deekster_caddy > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 21:17

Hah. I think what he meant was that it's pretty much impossible to have Congress do anything useful. Look at the mess we are in right now. Now if you could get the backing of a few SuperPacs to look into your problem, then we might get somewhere.

Lets Just Drive > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/04/2013 at 21:21

I asked for it. Hehe!

Here's the thing Maxyenko (and I just want to ask, is that like "Max Yenko"?) I agree with you 100%. And as a Canadian, we're not even slightly immune - we face the same quagmire in our government which is why it's currently prorogued.

And, speaking as a Canadian, we really wish America could get its shit together because as much as we pretend we're not, that we're some version of the colonial spirit different from Empire America, we're completely not. We're like you're little brother and when you start fucking with drugs and alcohol, we're not far behind you. We're no different, really.

But we remember when America was something to aspire to, even if grappling with social issues, because we actually appreciate that your country stood for unflinching freedom, unbound kindness to your neighbor and economic dominance.

So get your shit together and maybe we'll follow suit!

Go America, Go!

Ugh so this is my life > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/04/2013 at 21:24

Legislation does not stop criminals, it is against the law to break into someones house, but people still do it. Hell it is against the law to be in America illegally, and we, more or less, fully support people here illegally.

Legislation works to a point, but only works for those who obey the law. Those who would willingly break the law will continue to do so no matter the risk. I believe I saw something in one of the articles on jalop pertaining to the RR vs asshats that said, "We know about these events, but there is not much we can do about them, not because of first amendment, but because when we give chase these riders become even more dangerous to others, riding on the sidewalk and such" paraphrased from a NYPD Officer.

That there is the crux of the issue, it is safer to let these asshats do what they did than it is to try to stop them because they act even more erratic and irrational.

About the only way I could see legislation working, would be to impose such a heavy sentence for those who have been caught offending that others would realize that there is real risk to doing these things. Revoking licenses will not help, revoking licenses just creates unlicensed motorists, which translate to uninsured motorists.

Here in California, if you get caught street racing, you lose your car, gone, will be available at some police auction in the near future, that is still not enough to deter people from street racing.

The difficulty is in enforcing it, and making it worth enforcing, and the punishment enough of a deterrent to make someone actively think, "is this a good idea," before they act. We still haven't found that threshold for intoxicated drivers, what makes us think that any legislation around this would have any effect of the mentality of people who willingly break the law in a dangerous manor.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 21:24

Kinda yeah, Max is my first name Yenko has a connection to my last name and is car related. Maxyenko is my PSN name first then my user name here.

Lets Just Drive > deekster_caddy
10/04/2013 at 21:26

It's a shame when the idea that Cash Talks, Everything Else Walks seeps into politics and government.

I get your point entirely. It's a bigger problem than just this incident.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Ugh so this is my life
10/04/2013 at 21:27

I'm much more in favor of Education over Legislation. But once again the government sucks. Yes NSA eat my asshole you stupid fucks.

Lets Just Drive > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/04/2013 at 21:29

Hilarious.

Yenko's are some of my favorite race-bred Chevy's. I've seen about a dozen tribute cars, many live on the Island, but I've never seen a real Yenko. So you can imagine how happy I was when my wife said to me, after watching "Counting Cars" that if we ever get a classic muscle car, she wants a Yenko tribute Nova.

I almost cried with joy.

My wife, my wife... likes a Yenko. That's a rare and special quality in a woman.

Gasolinelollipop > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 21:30

No need for new laws. Current laws do not allow for people to assault others. The people responsible for breaking the laws will be punished. Bad stuff happens sometimes. If you want to be safe find a padded room.

If you want a lesson on this, it would be that you should be aware of your surroundings. When a large group of bikes surrounds your vehicle, you should slow down and try to avoid them. Find a safe place and call the police.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 21:31

Keeper.

deekster_caddy > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 21:31

Yeah, when corporations became people and anonymous superpacs became the financial backers of pretty much anybody, this whole country just became 'money talks, everybody else can suck it'.

Anyway, your ideas are very well said there. I've wanted to dump my feelings about this incident somewhere but what you said above is pretty much close enough.

Lets Just Drive > Gasolinelollipop
10/04/2013 at 21:34

I agree, actually.

However, I was speaking towards legislation that would be put in place, in very clear language, forbidding this kind of event from happening without proper authorization just so that everyone involved is aware that police could indiscriminately begin issuing citations or impounding vehicles. When protests get out of hand, and the police have to respond, ass kickings get handed out. All I'm saying is that maybe, and again, just maybe we could be okay with handing out ass kickings in this sort of situation too.

But, yeah, I could be wrong.

I'd like to say legislation isn't the answer, that changing our attitudes is. But as has been proven time and again, quite often people will refuse to change unless forced to by constraint of law or finance. It's sad, but true.

Lets Just Drive > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/04/2013 at 21:35

Yup. That's why I stuck a baby in her belly.

One month and counting til due.

Lets Just Drive > deekster_caddy
10/04/2013 at 21:36

It would be nice if we had the facility to see a situation, address it and adapt accordingly as a culture and a society. Maybe one day, when the BORG defeat Starfleet and plug us all into the collective. Maybe then.

Or maybe when Zombie Stalin takes over the world.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 21:38

Congrats! And I wish you a healthy baby hoon!

deekster_caddy > Ugh so this is my life
10/04/2013 at 21:49

Well this incident may be precedent setting enough to make it now worth enforcing those laws, and with enough deterrent to make one think. Maybe, maybe not. It will be interesting indeed to watch this sad event unfold.

After all, you only get a DUI if you get caught. This is more than a DUI though - an event this big was indeed known about, and would likely become known about pretty quickly in the future. I'm sure they (NYPD etc) will be working on plans for how to safely bring an event like this to a halt.

McMike > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 21:58

I just noticed a few letters were missing on the hood. I LOL'd

Lets Just Drive > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/04/2013 at 22:23

Thank you so much. We don't know, so boy or girl, kid is getting a racecar bed because racecar bed and a whole tonne of toy cars for me... I mean us, to play with.

I've never been so excited to be anything as I am to be a dad.

Ask me how I'm feeling in six months. Friends and family are wagering, taking bets and the pool is getting pretty big. Heh.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 22:25

I'm going with full on Tyler Durden

Lets Just Drive > McMike
10/04/2013 at 22:27

Not my work. Credit goes to dieselman

Lets Just Drive > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/04/2013 at 22:32

Dear Mom and Dad,

Sorry it's been so long since I last wrote. I've been so busy, you wouldn't believe it. Yesterday we spent sixteen hours making soap. You wouldn't believe the smell but it's all for a good cause.

You should see how we sleep. We've got bunks in the basement with our very own scratchy blanket. So glad I got my head shaved on day one; so many bedbugs! But it's cozy and sometimes the breeze comes through and that wet fart smell comes rolling in. It's so refreshing.

We're learning rappelling. And chemistry. And that we're not special, we're the all singing, all dancing crap of the world. It's great!

Anyway, I have to go because it's time. I'd like to tell you more, but the first rule of Project Mayhem is that you don't talk about Project Mayhem.

Love you so much, Mom and Dad. I'm so glad I joined the Space Money Program.

Signed,

His Name Was Robert Paulsen.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 22:36

Kinja'd!!!

Tom McParland > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 22:36

Congrats dude, my son just turned one last week. Fatherhood is a fun time. :)

Lets Just Drive > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/04/2013 at 22:37

Right?

Heh.

Lets Just Drive > Tom McParland
10/04/2013 at 22:38

Congrats to you, too!

Guess what our family vehicle is?

Yeah, you nailed it. A Mustang.

Will it baby? We'll find out.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 22:39

I'm sure I caused plenty of this.

Lets Just Drive > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/04/2013 at 22:41

By the way, best novel of my generation.

The movie is excellent, too. But the book, well...

"We look forward to getting you back."

TheOnelectronic > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 22:45

Bookmarked so I can read fully when I have the time. I like what I've seen so far.

rabbitman > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 22:48

I will say as a family member of a kid that might of ended up paralyzed, by a pool accident, that supporting that person is really important and its really frighting. We went from neck down quadriplegic, to kid that is perfectly fine and walking healthy teenager you would never know what happened to them.
But it took time and patients and rehabilitation and medical advances.
You have to have faith and support this person through every step, they will need it. I am hoping when he is taken out of his coma this will be what happens, but his Family does need to support him, and also stop blaming this event for his life time of bad choices he shouldn't of even been on the road.
Your man child observation is on point also, lots of guys need to grow up. these are the same people you see starting bar fights, getting referenced as bro's they all have a lot of growing up to do.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 22:50

I don't read much. I got issues.

Lets Just Drive > TheOnelectronic
10/04/2013 at 22:58

Excellent, because I'd really like your input.

I think my tone, regarding the injured rider, may have been a bit insensitive but I can't help but feel a level of disgust when I see his family on the news acting like their kid was the victim of an unprovoked hate-crime-gang-rape instead of reconizing his culpability for what took place and asking the public for their best wishes in his recovery.

I really, really hope he pulls through. I really hope he can walk again. And I really hope he'll be the voice of reason in this whole unreasonable situation.

A guy can hope.

Lets Just Drive > rabbitman
10/04/2013 at 23:00

I pretty much just said the same in my reply to TheOneElectronic.

I wish this guy the best, and I hope he recovers fully, and I hope he's the voice of reason that comes out of all this.

Lets Just Drive > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/04/2013 at 23:00

Eh, the movie is good enough.

Maybe just skim the last chapter.

desertdog5051 > Lets Just Drive
10/04/2013 at 23:21

All in all, I agree with your points. Having rode MC's since the early 70's. I have seen a lot and I have not seen anything like this before. From the sources I have read/seen, they go out to do this type of stuff and provoke people into reacting which incites the "pack mentality".

I think this is an evolution of our time. People seem to want to act out more and the addition of cameras only accentuates the problem.

What happened to just taking over a town and drinking all the beer without paying and screwing the women without their permission, getting gas and not paying for it,

"Those were the days"

Lets Just Drive > desertdog5051
10/04/2013 at 23:24

As crude as it sounds to say, at least back in those days the bikers in question wouldn't piss and moan in the aftermath about being wronged.

"We stole your town, took your shit, fucked your women. You started shooting at us. We're not surprised."

Versus:

"We stole your road, because it's our road dickface. And we have the right, by law, to fuck you up dickface. Now protect us law, from the dickfaces we were just dickfacing!"

PRBot II > Lets Just Drive
10/05/2013 at 00:46

...try and keep a civil tone about it even if someone suggests that the driver should have been packing heat.

I don't think it's practical to carry a firearm everywhere at all times. Obviously, it's near impossible to predict when violent crimes will happen. In Mr. Lein's case, packing heat probably would have been more trouble than it's worth.

Regardless, I still can't help but fantasize about heroically appearing out of thin air with a Kel-Tec PMR-30, a few spare mags, and sending those squids back to hell.

Lets Just Drive > PRBot II
10/05/2013 at 00:59

First, I agree. I literally just responded to another member, on the FP, who suggested that Concealed Carry rights would have prevented the situation all together.

So would cutting off everyone's legs. I don't think that's a reasonable argument.

If everyone was legally armed, would the entire ride have never occurred? Eh. And if everyone involved were legally armed, and the event and collision still happened, would the outcome have been better? I say no. Absolutely not. At the very least, personally, I think that outcome would equal one dead man, his wife and probably his child, along with at least one or more bikers and a handful of bystanders. Now, I can't say that as a fact, it's purely hypothetical. But I'm fairly resolved in my conviction.

However...

I'd have jumped for joy if a genuine Superhero had swooped in, saved the day and introduced the world to Super Man... or Jesus. Jesus swooping in would work, too. Or a unicorn. Whatever.

PRBot II > Lets Just Drive
10/05/2013 at 01:29

I agree. Who knows if those squids were packing heat or not? No doubt they would meet fire with fire. It's sad to think that the only way to get them to stop is to let them have what they want: Mr. Lien's blood.

I am a concealed carry supporter, and licensed to do so in the state of Florida. But I think unlike the FP commenter, I at least acknowledge that these are Hollywood-fueled fantasies.

With no guns, should he have thrown it into reverse and mowed down more squids when he was stuck at the end in traffic? If the squids were armed, would they have opened fire on him for using his vehicle as a weapon? Again, it's sad to think that the only way to stop the squids is to let them have Mr. Lien's blood.

When I was mugged in Hawai'i, I remember thinking "well, I'm about to get very badly hurt". In the end they beat up my friend while I screamed at the top of my lungs for help. If I could re-live that night with a pistol, I absolutely would have opened fire on them. Because to willingly sacrifice my own well-being is against my human nature. I'm willing to die for my self-defense, but I'm not willing to be hospitalized for the sake of prudence.

My situation in HI isn't comparable to Mr. Lien's. But I can't help but see visions in my head of mowing all those squids down with hollowpoints.

TheOnelectronic > Lets Just Drive
10/05/2013 at 02:48

I think a lot comes down to what he was doing at the time. If he was, say, trying to get everyone to chill out when he was run over, then that does seem really sad and unfortunate. If he was one of the people banging on windows, then I have no pity.

As for the driver, I agree. He had every reason to believe that those riders were going to seriously hurt him and his family if he didn't do something, so he did. I can almost guarantee I'd have done the same thing.

Lets Just Drive > TheOnelectronic
10/05/2013 at 03:50

I don't think we'll be able to say with any certainty until he, hopefully, recovers. At present, however, the video evidence is pretty damning. You can clearly see the bike pull in front and then brake-check the Range Rover with very little room to spare. This might have been a non-moment on any other day of the week, but the driver was likely distracted by the plethora of bikes around him and may not have even noticed the brake-check. That said, it's kind of like doing the Running Of The Bulls and getting hurt - it's kind of a probable outcome.

TheOnelectronic > Lets Just Drive
10/05/2013 at 04:24

I don't believe the brake-check guy is also spine-crush guy. I think the guy who does the brake check was someone else, the guy who was first arrested and charged with all the things.

I think Meezes/Mieses/Moses was run over during one of the later encounters, but I really haven't paid a whole lot of attention to the details, to be entirely honest, especially since everything is still a bit murky.