Datsun 240z vs. 280z

"ModerateSloth" (moderatesloth) 10/03/2013 at 11:20 • Filed to: DATSUN

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For my first post on oppo I thought I would pose this age old question: Datsun 240z vs. 280z. I have heard people on other forums say that the 240z is lighter, but it is carbureted and not fuel injected like the 280, and that the 280 is better put together. What is oppo's opinion on the matter?

Party-vi > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 11:22

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240Z, because nothing compares to the throttle response a carb'd engine gives you.

RotaryLover > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 11:23

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Ask Kitami Jun.

HammerheadFistpunch > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 11:23

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I like the look of the 240 better, but i would own a 280

TurboSloth > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 11:25

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Why not both? No seriously, I love em both.

magman007 > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 11:26

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What about the 260 z?

I had a friend with a 240 z in college, I don't know much about them, but I understood they were basically all the same, just different displacements?

20binaFD > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 11:27

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I guess whichever is easier to swap an rb26 into.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 11:28

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No experience with either, but I kind of like both.

240Z is more distinctly classic, and carburetion is expected.

280Z is slightly more modern mechanically, but looks similar.

280ZX is a bit more modern looking, after the first significant re-design, and has sort of an interesting mix between classic and modern, where Z31 looks distinctly modern.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 11:29

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240Z with a carbed L28 is where it's at.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 11:39

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I'd go for a 260Z. Cheaper than a 240, and slightly more powerful if a little heavier. Lighter than a 280 though.

Also, because Safari Rally:

Jake The Skull > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 11:45

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I'd go with a 260, personally. The nomenclature is based off displacement for example, the 240 is a 2.4 liter inline six, the 260 a 2.6 and so on and so forth. The 240 and 260 were only slightly different in looks (the 260 had to have bigger bumpers to meet federal regulations) But the 2.6 liter is a fantastic engine and was still carbureted. I don't know much about the 2.8s fuel injection system, but I'm in love with side draft carbs. Sorry for the long winded response, I've done a lot of research on Z cars and the 260 is my favorite lol

iLikeCarsAndSkiing > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 11:46

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Whichever one is in the picture...so the 280z?

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/03/2013 at 11:57

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This is the correct answer.

OtherBarry > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 11:58

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240 if you can mess with carbs and 260 or 280 if you can't or don't want to. Just depends of what you can find in your price range. I know i can't but the 240 I want for what i'm willing to pay for it, but a 280 is a bit easier to find in my area.

squeebles > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 12:00

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If your pee pee tingles, you mind should jingle. That's when you know you found the right one

Just4GP > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 12:08

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The 240Z my cousin had when I was a kid was the first car I stood next to and realized I loved cars. Of course I had a Countach poster on my wall, but that car was a fantasy. The 240 in front of me was REAL. I eventually owned a 300ZX, then a 280ZX then another 300ZX, all of which I loved. But when it comes to which one was the most fun to drive, it was the 280 for me. Granted, I wasn't old enough to drive my cousin's 240 before it got stolen (three times).

Union of Smog Techs of CA > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 12:20

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Any S30 is good, but it goes (240>280>260)*(price/rust)

VW Fan Boy > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 12:26

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As a a lover of all Z's Z32 and down, and having driven both, I think the 240Z is the car to have. There is some truth to the 280Z being better put together and one can argue that the Fuel Infection is more reliable... But the 240Z is a different animal. The butt dyno told me it was faster and the sound of the carbs...that should be enough on its own!

BJ > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 12:42

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I have no opinion on the matter. I do, however, like that picture. If it's yours, kudos on the pretty picture and a handsome car.

SPNKiX > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 12:48

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I basically agree with whatever the general consensus turns out to be.

bhardoin > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 13:04

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I like the old carbed 240s. Yes, carbs can be a bitch, but tuned right they make roughly the same power. Most people that swap Z engines in their old pre-smog 240s or 260 take the larger displacement L28 from the 280z, and then use re-needled carbs from the 240s.

The 260zs are cheaper because they, despite having more displacement, don't make a much power because their compression ratios were lowered for smog reasons. They have extra smog equipment on them standardly, and came with the "flat top" hitachis that apparently are a nightmare to work with (I've only messed with the round top ones, that aren't too bad).

Most of the weight added in later models was in the doors, across the roof, and in those heinous bumpers - as well as in things like AC and better radios. Stuff that, if I'm committed to driving a death trap - I don't care about.

bhardoin > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/03/2013 at 13:05

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Race version had a hotter engine than the street version by a lot. The street 260 was choked massively by smog restrictions.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > bhardoin 10/03/2013 at 14:18

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Smog restrictions are nasty, but so long as you're not in CA you can do something about that.

bhardoin > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/03/2013 at 15:01

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Yeah, I'm in CA. haha

But the 260s were a 74 model year, I'm pretty sure, so you don't have to smog em even here. But still, you'll have to dig in, change some stuff up to alter the compression ratio, replace the flat top carbs, and remove all the smog gear from them. Seems way more of a bitch than just putting a bigger motor in a 240 and reusing the 240 carbs.

GhostZ > ModerateSloth 10/03/2013 at 23:13

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I'll break it down for you:

The 240z first-series (pre-early 71) were the lightest Z ever built. They had no real sound deadening, and an aggressive carb tune. They also had huge water leakage problems with that rear hatch, and would rust extremely fast. The rear differential was a weaker unit (which an LSD was never offered for in a Nissan, I think) that actually caused serious issues from poor packaging with the suspension and could mess with alignment because of that. These cars were 90% race cars and didn't last long. The engine had a higher-compression head on it, but with poor flow characteristics. Some were offered with triple 2-barrel weber carbs, and some were offered with two twin-barrel Mikunis. The webers are generally considered the higher-perfoming, but more maintenance-heavy choice. In the US, a lightweight 4-speed was the only transmission it came with. 5-speeds were available elsewhere though.

The later 240z (post-early '71) fixed the alignment issue, re-positioned some vents to keep water out of the body, and added some sound deadening. Supposedly suspension was also softened up slightly, but I'm not sure. The automatic started being offered too. The head on the engine changed as well for better airflow and reliability, but power was not increased.

The 260z stroked the motor and added yet another head that supposedly flowed quite well, but with reduced compression. Weight (but not much) was added with a little bit more sound deadening and crash padding too, I believe.

The 280z made huge leaps and strides over the original 240z, and is far and away a better overall car . I cannot stress this enough. It switched to the far stronger, but heavier, R200 differential (which Nissan kept for many years and was used in the S13/S14 in some variation). They had a revised suspension. I don't think the springs got softer, but it felt that way because the car was heavier by a few hundred lbs. The car got Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection, which was one of the best systems available at the time and unprecedented for a Japanese car. It was a mechanical system, not an ECU one, so unlike other sketchy early Jetronic FI (like on similar year Porsches), it actually was very very reliable. The heavier weight, changes in power measurements (SAE VS Gross) and the constant head-swapping year-to-year that Nissan did makes finding an exact power number for the 280z hard, but it was not significantly slower than the 240z in a straight line. The FI made less power than race-tuned carbs, but it kept the same power as the factory carbs with much better fuel economy. The car was offered with a proper Borg Warner T-5 5-speed transmission too, which added more weight but was much better than the 4 speed. It had a broader, lower-RPM powerband thanks to the added stroke and bore over the L24, without crippling economy or peak power as it would have done if they did the same tuning on the L24. More importantly, almost 300lbs were added by the federal-mandated crash bumpers. This makes it seem like the 280z is far slower, but in reality, with the bumpers removed, it was comparable to the 240z with many other benefits beyond speed. Also, since AC become a much more common option back then, it may have sapped power that the original 240z wouldn't have. Another major increase in weight was the added rear-sway bar. But this weight improved handling immensely. These cars are way more resistant to rust, damage, crashes, engine issues, and suspension problems than the original 240z.

The crippling factors of the S30 were the rear drum brakes, non-crossflow cylinder heads, and rust-prone bodies. These issues continued from early 240z to late 280z, but the 280z has many, many huge advantages (particularly the sway bar, FI, and better engine construction) over the 240z.

EDIT: I'll also like to mention that dollar-for-speed, you'll go much further with the 280z. The engine is easier to modify, the car has more refinement to work with at the start, and some major key components come upgraded already. Considering that they sell for around $2000-$3000 less for a similar condition 240z... the only reason to buy a 240z is for the appreciation, aesthetic, or bragging rights.

GhostZ > Jake The Skull 10/03/2013 at 23:18

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FYI, The FI was a dream for 1975. It's a really simple and really effective system.

As for engine, the 280z had the better engine in terms of reliability and cooling, but at the expense of smog. If Nissan had kept the same high-compression heads and ignored smog, the power for the 240z would have been around 150, the 260 around 155-160, and the 280z around 180+. But the 280z had more power-sapping add ons, lower compression, and smog equipment that brought it back down to the 145-150 level of the original 240z.

Otherwise, the engines are almost completely identical .

GhostZ > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig 10/03/2013 at 23:18

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No, 240z with an FI cross-flow DOHC L28 is where it's at!

GhostZ > bhardoin 10/03/2013 at 23:26

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The 280Z also added a lot of weight in a rear sway bar, 5-speed transmission, and R200 differential. These also vastly improved performance and handling too, its just too bad they didn't come with a proportional power increase.

GhostZ > VW Fan Boy 10/03/2013 at 23:29

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That butt dyno effect comes from tighter transmission ratios (from an entirely different differential) stiffer suspension, no rear sway bar, and general lightness. This makes it feel faster and have a better power/weight ratio, but at some heavy reliability, quality, safety, handling, emissions, and economy concerns.

GhostZ > 20binaFD 10/03/2013 at 23:30

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They're the same in terms of swap.

Jake The Skull > GhostZ 10/04/2013 at 00:39

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Thanks! I didn't know all that.

GhostZ > Jake The Skull 10/04/2013 at 00:43

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I think the 240z VS 280z argument is really similar to a 1964-1967 VS a 1968-1970 Mustang. The earlier ones had a smaller, but more fun higher-revving engine in a lighter, more simple body. The later ones were more refined with slighter bigger and lower-revving engines and better fuel delivery options, but with significant added weight.

But unlike the early Mustang, the 240z looks slightly better and has less racing pedigree, which is opposite of the Mustang.

Jake The Skull > GhostZ 10/04/2013 at 00:46

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Yeah I hear you. Its like a 93-97 or 98-02 Camaro argument. Not a lot of difference, but enough to have a preference.

VW Fan Boy > GhostZ 10/04/2013 at 08:06

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Wait that car doesn't have a transaxle so tranny ratios and diff ratios are completely separate. Not sure what you meant.

The 280z I drove on occasion was a family members and was all original with only 48k on the clock. It was maintained pretty darn well so it was a good example of a bone stock 280Z...even if it was 20 years later.

The 240Z I drove actually had work done to it. It had a 280Z 5 Speed from a '78 along with a 280Z diff with upgraded internals. Don't know about a rear sway but considering the suspension setup he was running I would imagine it was adapted. Engine was pretty stock just aftermarket carbs with open side-stacks.

As for the last portion about reliability, quality, safety etc...I think most of those things go out the door if it's a project/weekend car. Unless you will be DD'ing the car, I still say the 240Z is the car to have.

GhostZ > VW Fan Boy 10/04/2013 at 12:17

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The differential ratio was different and they changed to a better 5 speed, so all of the ratios changed.

I would pick the 240z too if they were both priced the same on the market, but the premium they command for (sometimes twice as much as a comparable 280z) in light of relatively inferior mechanical design turns me off to them.

VW Fan Boy > GhostZ 10/04/2013 at 12:54

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That's a fair enough statement I can agree with. Recently here in South Florida there was a '72 240 completely restored. They were asking $11k, but considering the condition it was well worth it.

The Z is up there with the cars I'd consider restoring in the future as a keeper. Any of the S30's would make me happy.

bhardoin > GhostZ 10/04/2013 at 13:53

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With the exception of the 5 speed - which is definitely an improvement - I though the new sway bar and R200 (not locking until the ZX if I'm not mistaken?) were more to deal with the extra weight and slight power the rest of the car had picked up.

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > GhostZ 10/06/2013 at 18:11

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"... the only reason to buy a 240z is for the appreciation, aesthetic, or bragging rights."

and the 240's looked better.

Jfelty19 > RotaryLover 10/07/2013 at 00:46

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is this from Wangan Midnight?

RotaryLover > Jfelty19 10/07/2013 at 06:05

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Yup!

GhostZ > John Norris (AngryDrifter) 10/07/2013 at 11:20

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They used the exact same frame design, interior layout, and body panels.

How can you exactly say that the 240z looked "better"? The only exterior difference was those ugly (and easily removable) bumpers.

For example: 240z:

280z with bumpers:

280z with 240z bumpers:

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > John Norris (AngryDrifter) 10/07/2013 at 20:40

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... and the 240's looked better, unless you undressed the 280 enough to make it look like a 240.

Christine Siepka > John Norris (AngryDrifter) 11/19/2013 at 14:58

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I always laugh when people say that the 240z "looks" better than the 280z.

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > Christine Siepka 11/19/2013 at 20:13

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The only good looking 280's are the ones that have been modified to look like 240's. I think I said that somewhere here.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > GhostZ 12/14/2014 at 13:53

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I have an early 72 240 and they are just better, triple carbs and a few upgrades, I have driven a few versions and its just better to be lighter and get all the HP you can from the original. I love my quirky smuggler storage doors too.

Hasa280Z > GhostZ 12/28/2014 at 22:53

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Own a 1978 280Z. Can confirm all the above. Daily Drive mine. All maintenence and repairs are easily accomplished with the Service Manual. They are awesome to drive and ....wait. ignore this. Don't seek them out and buy them. You should leave them to a professional and buy a Miata instead.

GhostZ > Hasa280Z 12/28/2014 at 23:39

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Leave more for us!

Dusty Ventures > GhostZ 12/29/2014 at 00:12

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Leave it to our resident expert to lay down the facts .

EDIT: Wait, this post is a year old? How the hell did it sneak into the "top stories" bar?! There isn't a single mention of a Blackbird or a ground speed check!

Dsscats > ModerateSloth 12/29/2014 at 01:15

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Solution? 240Z with an L28.

Dsscats > John Norris (AngryDrifter) 12/29/2014 at 01:17

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That's the "aesthetic" part....

r.aeche > Party-vi 01/06/2015 at 15:39

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Except for a well tuned fuel injection system.

Party-vi > r.aeche 01/06/2015 at 20:56

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Again, throttle response is better with mechanical linkage and carbs. We're not talking about power or efficiency here.

Tduke > John Norris (AngryDrifter) 10/01/2015 at 14:29

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That's what aesthetic means, bro. Looks.

jerkmequik > Party-vi 11/05/2015 at 23:55

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lmfao thats funny fuel injection is way better throttle response and a shit ton of less problems as a carburetor

Party-vi > jerkmequik 11/06/2015 at 08:39

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Carbs don’t have problems, Shirley. If you’re too stupid to tune one properly then of course you think fuel injection has better throttle response.

Flavien Vidal > jerkmequik 11/07/2015 at 08:44

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Throttle response of a carbed engine is uncomparable, this is why it’s so loved, even today.