Has Capitalism Failed Racing?

"Menebrio" (menebrio)
10/01/2013 at 17:51 • Filed to: MotoGP, Racing, Laguna Seca

Im sorry, but I'm having trouble putting my words together. I hate it when capitalism gets in the way of proper racing. I'd be a full fledged socialist if it meant great racing, at great circuits. It's just depressing when some of the best circuits fold on events that have always provided great racing. Why can't Dorna lower their fee? Would fans be willing to pay a little more for the race? Isn't that banked turned and all those epic moments great publicity for the sport (its certainly a circuit that got me watching)?

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! :

Hot off the MRM Press: MotoGP will NOT be returning to Laguna Seca in 2014

The MotoGP World Championship, one of the top motorcycle race series in the world, won't be making its annual July stop at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca in 2014.

After a week of speculation on motocycle racing web sites, the Raceway confirmed the news Monday, marking the end of nine straight years the Mazda Laguna Seca Raceway has played host to the Red Bull U.S. Grand Prix, one of the track's biggest events.

Raceway general manager Gill Campbell said the decision, which will mean the MotoGP circuit will have U.S. stops next year only in Indianapolis and Austin, Texas, was a mutual agreement between Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca and MotoGP parent company, Dorna Sports.

Three events in the United States, Campbell said, is one too many.

"There is, frankly, not enough of everything to go around for three world championships in the United States," she said.

Though the international motorcycle race series has steadily drawn weekend crowds of 150,000 to the Peninsula, Campbell said the event has not been profitable for the past four years.

Attendance dipped this year and the licensing fee with Dorna is going up by $800,000 next year. It takes about $9 million to put on the event, Campbell said.

"We can't afford to take a bath," she said.

While the move likely will leave a gap in the 2014 schedule at Mazda Laguna Seca Raceway, Campbell said there will be a full schedule of motor sport events otherwise.

It's possible MotoGP will return to the Mazda Raceway in "a year or two or three," she said.

"We may just take a big breath (in 2014) and look at our opportunities, and see where want to go," Campbell said.

The decision to pull out of the 2014 MotoGP schedule came after the Indianapolis Motor Speedway picked up its option for 2014, Campbell said.

That hadn't been expected, but the Indianapolis raceway received a $100 million Indiana state grant to make improvements for motorcycle racing. The Circuit of the Americas raceway in Austin receives a $2 million in state tax credits, she said.

"We can't compete with that. Here there are no tax credits or state subsidies," Campbell said.
Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca is a non-profit run by the Sports Car Association of the Monterey Peninsula, which manages the county-owned facility.

The 18-race series is held in 14 countries and dates back to 1949.

DISCUSSION (100)

Casper > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 18:00

In true socialism you wouldn't have racing... in fact you wouldn't have most of the related activities. The whole point of socialism is that everything is done for the majority, not the individual, which means you wouldn't have niche activities consuming the public assets.

Of course, you are probably just being facetious about the issue at hand of the funding problems. I just like pointing these things out. It's strange also to me that people compare things like capitalism to socialism or communism. Social engineering concepts compared to economic market models really makes very little sense, but people don't bother to really think about it, they just want to skim the cliff notes and pick a side.

Anyway, the problem facing the racing is bigger than just venue prices. It's popularity. Yes, it's popular, but unlike other sports, the fans aren't clumped together near the location holding the event. For race events people have to be willing to travel great distances and spend money to stay there. With a down economy that becomes less likely. Then there is the issue of the internet. Why go watch a race live, traveling hundreds or thousands of miles, when I can watch it whenever I want after it happens? The entire industry has lost focus on why people attended live events and have taken for granted that they can fill seats by simply existing.

For Sweden > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 18:06

Judging by the Soviet Bloc's many failed attempts at motorsports, let's not get hasty.

Breakfast Burrito: The True Resident Burrito > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 18:06

I get that a lot of this is written as hyperbole, but suggesting that capitalism failed racing is like saying the racetrack failed the driver. It's up to the driver and his team to make sure they are competitive where they race, just like it is up to the series and track's marketing/financing guys to make sure they put on an event that a lot of people know/care about and are willing to pay for.

Menebrio > Casper
10/01/2013 at 18:15

Well said, it suck's that political/economic discourse has been made black or white.

[Going back to irrationality]Socially speaking you always need entertainment for the masses. Hey, I can't afford racing so I'll just watch some on TV. Take it away, and I might just start stealing cars to do so.

desertdog5051 > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 18:16

If it isn't profitable, then you must consider dropping it.

Menebrio > Breakfast Burrito: The True Resident Burrito
10/01/2013 at 18:25

Yeah I jumped on the Hyperbole bus. Problem is that a lot of the early racing circuits that have great history and by the most part are better for racing than most Tilke designs or street circuits (were of course you'd have a lot of people attending), are in remote locations. Remember the French F1 GP? Pretty good circuit that drivers loved, but got blown of the map since it was lost somewhere in the French country side (plus Bernie demanded new infrastructure being that F1 was the only major race there).

Casper > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 18:46

Well that's where Communism and such falls apart. The concept is that you will give people what they need (the basics) and harshly crush the outliers of the norm. This will keep everyone average. The entire process normalizing society by normalizing the individual though providing of basic requirements and strict regulation of undesired behavior/ideas. You don't need entertainment, but you won't steal cars either or the authority will kill you is the general logic. Of course that doesn't work, which is why they are theories and not practical implementations.

It's the same with pretty much every system. Purely theoretical systems never work. Do you see any true Democracies around?

Menebrio > Casper
10/01/2013 at 19:24

Have you seen true Free Markets?

Well, maybe only Black Markets be true Laissez-faire.

Poundingsand > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 19:45

Is it because we're no longer considered the superpower we once were? Will China now get an EXTRA race day? What is the world coming to?

Brazzzzzle > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 19:46

I'm sure the money has something to do with, but I bet this is really the main reason:
"Three events in the United States, Campbell said, is one too many.

"There is, frankly, not enough of everything to go around for three world championships in the United States," she said."

The Old Man from Scene 24 > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 19:57

Hyperbole Bus?

Kinja'd!!!

Bird > Casper
10/01/2013 at 20:02

Ah, but racing is good for the people. It helps move engineering and things like materials research further. Advancing your technology is good for the country.

The Soviets at least went racing:

Kinja'd!!!

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/51611-so…

http://www.autosoviet.altervista.org/ENGLISH-automo…

http://sovieteramuseum.com/?p=1688

TronSheridan > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 20:13

I guess Laguna Seca can't write as big a check as Qatar, where the race only gets a few thousand spectators. Fucking sad and pathetic that a nation with disposable money can just buy a race that no one watches, thus denying perhaps hundreds of thousands of true fans at another venue the opportunity to see a MotoGP race.

TriumphAnt > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 20:14

Good riddance.

That track hasn't changed its facilities in decades. No infrastructure improvements, with the proverbial "one road in/one road out". It's the biggest motorcycle draw in the US of A (exceeding six figure attendance for a race weekend), handy to the Bay Area and LA markets in a state that is a motorcycle mecca.

But Laguna Seca's time has come, and gone.

sgvri > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 20:24

Greed is getting in the way of real racing. Just ask Mr. Ecclestone.

avens > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 20:24

Racing is the epitome of capitalism.

CzechMonster > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 20:29

Political Correctness and piss poor legal system is destroying racing. I never had anything against tobacco companies sponsoring racing but PC protagonists did. Marlboro, Winston and the list goes on.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Bird
10/01/2013 at 20:31

we wouldn't have any Buggati Veyrons, but racing and sports in general are all justifiable under socialism.

It would look completely different though, no sponsors, no large sums of money for word championship licensing fees, just who could build the best racer and who could drive it the fastest.

lack of (enforced) technological patents would mean that other teams could develop and improve on each-others design without large expensive court battles.

it could have been pretty interesting.

AntiHero > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 20:32

It's not capitalism that's failed, it's the county government, which has refused to invest in anything other than the track surface itself. Though the track is in great condition, the rest of the 'facility' is in need of a serious overhaul (and has been for 20 years). Spend half of an entire race session stuck in a plywood bridge, or bake like cattle standing locked in place by other fans waiting just to exit the main paddock and you might think twice about ever coming back.

Bird > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard
10/01/2013 at 20:38

Yep, the lack of sponsors is one of the most interesting part of all those photos. I never realized how much racing went on in the Soviet Union. I stumbled upon all that stuff when I was looking for my Lada.

Casper > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 20:39

Free markets still operate under regulation. They self regulate as with most systems. Capitalism in pure form would be a free market system as would a socially regulated Libertarian market system.

Everything has regulating forces, the only difference is how the forces come to be. Free markets are simply a market concept without direct regulation by a central authority. They still operate under natural laws and self regulation derived there from.

howie > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 20:43

Hmmm... I thought this was going to a rant about when greedy land developers decide to build an up scale neighborhood right next to a road course or drag strip that's been there for oh... about elventybillion years then bitch about the noise and either shut it down or come up with some lame get rich scheme where by the land developer gets to assess damages due to the noise generated by the track. Which I'm bitterly reminded the same thing doesn't happen when an asshat land developer decides to build an upscale neighborhood right next to an international airport (isn't that right Kiln Creek, Newport News VA)

howie > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 20:43

thedevilinside > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 20:47

I thought IMS was getting a loan not a grant. And it is for the track in general . Not for just motorcycle racing.

SaitoHawkeye > Casper
10/01/2013 at 20:54

Of course you could have racing in communism or socialism. The whole idea is that people have to work less, because basic needs are taken care of, and they could spend their time doing other things.

There's no reason you couldn't have racing in socialist or communist societies; and indeed, the Soviets had several car racing leagues.

SaitoHawkeye > avens
10/01/2013 at 20:55

How so?

Jonathan Woodall > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 20:55

I'm horribly sad that Laguna is being dropped from the MotoGP calendar. I've never been but I've tried so many times and just never made it work. I was given tickets to the first USGP back in the US in 2005 and I was unbelievably excited to go but I wound up selling the tickets to buy leathers so I could go racing myself. The following year I was given tickets again but I was in college and just couldn't afford the trip. Ever since, I've tried to make it 2 or 3 more times but it just has never quite worked out. Now that it's gone, I don't know what to say, it's just a massive bummer. Hopefully they'll work things out and be back on the calendar in the next year or two and I can make the next return to Laguna...

Just wear your damn mask... > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 21:11

"Racing is the exercise of turning money into noise."

Capitalism never failed racing because as a profit making endeavor, racing is a terrible investment. The only time racing was remotely economically viable was when there was so much tobacco money around that they couldn't spend all the money. When you have more money than you could ever spend, drivers and riders are hired based on their abilities and other sponsors jump on board because spending money is fun when not much of it is coming out of your pocket.

As soon as you have to make a serious business to be involved in racing, racing loses. Racing always lost, at least until the tobacco money started flowing. Making money in racing is near impossible and once people have to dip into their own wallets egos start getting involved and you have splits, reunifications, ride buyers and egos overriding common sense.

chuckfoolerie > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 21:12

Regulations have failed racing.

F1 should have guys flying around the track in unrestricted v12's ... unrestricted areo ... unrestricted spending ... and let them take tobacco money again.

mrhumpty2010 > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 21:26

The problem isn't capitalism. It is statism. You said it yourself, you'd be a full fledged socialist if it meant great racing. These private circuits can't afford the prices that are set in a market flooded with government subsidized circuits.

You can't be made at the private circuits for pulling out when they can't afford it. You can't be made at the championships that price their product in response to the perceived value of their market. If Dorna can get 9m per race then they should charge 9m per race. The only reason they can charge so much is they know local goverments will subsidize the bill. I'm sure you rocking a Hyperbole vibe, but a more direct discussion about how government subsidized tracks screw over private tracks would be nice.

INDYDFX- Daily FiSTer > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 21:31

I can't believe that they dumped Laguna Seca but KEPT the shitheap IMS road course... Poor move Dorna.

Scrape > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 21:36

No. It is doing its job and thinning the herd. In my state, we stupidly spend millions in taxpayer money on a dying horse racing industry so a few rich people can have a hobby that makes them even more money. At the big race of the year, they had to turn the infield into a crappy music and drinking/drug festival just to get people to show up to the f'in thing. The tracks were supposed to get the benefit of the casinos built on their property, but they never built them because they felt they didn't have to pay the application fee. Now, the money from the casinos still goes to the tracks, but not as much as if they owned it. Few still bet on horse races regularly, and even fewer actually go the the track. And now with casinos open with table games...for get it. Just shutter the damned things and quit wasting my money.

Scrape > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 21:37

Tyler Estes > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 21:44

Yup. Because GRC instead of rally.

/thread

MAKE2 Mifune > SaitoHawkeye
10/01/2013 at 21:52

Kinja'd!!!

vs.

Kinja'd!!!

sammyjay > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 21:57

Has capitalism failed racing? No. Racing has failed capitalism. In a pure capitalist environment, agents (teams) would be allowed to field whatever product they believe they can get away with fielding. For motorcycles, this appears as though there would be no limits on engine types, tire compounds, weight restrictions, electronic aids, etc. To my knowledge, Moto GP has these all. Also, the venue must be conducive to a capitalist environment. Laguna Seca's compounds are poorly designed for modern venues...not enough access via road for more spectators, and the track really should have more seating. More seating, combined with superior facilities and more excitement from the racing, would draw more fans.

Formula 1 and NASCAR are the same way - it's almost a spec series. Everyone is forced to play by the rules, whether that be because of politics, cost curbing (more on that below,) safety, or whatever, it's not a real capitalist environment. Teams are not allowed free reign over the track, with the sole goal of being completing X amount of distance in the shortest possible time. Also, the banning of alcohol and tobacco sponsorships was a tremendous blow to racing.

I think that the problem is that capitalism and auto racing are not fully compatible. Look at Can-Am and Group B if you don't agree: they had virtually no restrictions at all. Teams would dump exorbitant amounts of money into the series in order to complete X distance in the shortest amount of time, and damnit if there weren't some stupidly fast cars in those days. Crowds were HUGE. Sponsors were coming out of the woodwork: tobacco companies, alcohol companies, racing suppliers, movie companies, factory backed teams, it was saturated with money.

Eventually, it became too dangerous and too expensive to go racing, and only a few major competitors became dominant (oligopolies, possibly cartels) so an outside force (government) shut it down. This is anti-free market, and as a result, cars became slower and attendance dropped.

If any of that made sense, it's a damn miracle, but I hope you see my point.

Casper > SaitoHawkeye
10/01/2013 at 22:28

The Soviets weren't true communist. They were dictatorial fascists. There has never been a true communism larger than a small group of people. The same as democracies.

I am talking about literal definitions, not political slang terms for governmental establishments. Racing is fundamentally against communistic concepts because it promotes individual superiority.

MikeEldred > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 22:36

Wow, some people sure are quick to defend a system that's basically a pyramid scheme. C'mon, I'll be a socialist with you. That'll make two of us.

King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 22:49

I think the point is more that the process of "capitalism" (or in this case, basic economic principals) indicates that only necessary or useful systems will continue to exist due to an expenditure of capital.

Essentially, unless racing proves that it has value, it will cease to receive interest and capital. This has more to do with a) general interest by the public and b) general interest by manufacturers...we see the problems in F1 that are popping up with only a few teams having results because only a few are willing to buy in to b) with the hope of gaining more of a).

Casper > Bird
10/01/2013 at 23:06

The issue would be that the Soviets weren't Communist or Socialist. They just used the name to justify what they were doing. They were a form of dictatorial fascism. The majority of racing programs they had were based around the the glory of the rulers and in competition with the rest of the world (very non-communist of them).

They were communist like the United States is a Democracy.

Birddog > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 23:25

Matt, do you write for Jalopnik for free?
No?

The whole idea for cancelling is part of capitalism and the idea of a free market in general.
I'm a Plumber. If I go to your home and work on it I expect to get paid.. If I know I'm not going to get paid I need to leave without doing work.
It doesn't matter that you like and expect things like toilets that work or a racing series.
Money makes the world work.

Bird > Casper
10/01/2013 at 23:29

Actually it had very little to do with glory around the world. If you look at the programs they were mainly internal. I'm not trying to debate soviet politics either.

The point of the post is that racing could most certainly have a place in a socialist or communist economy .

"The concept is that you will give people what they need (the basics) and harshly crush the outliers of the norm. This will keep everyone average." This isn't exactly right. That's how McCarthy might explain it, but that's hardly an apt description. You're mixing you're facism with your communism there.

MFEJAL grey because who knows... > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 23:32

You are talking about Dorna, my friend...enough said.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 23:58

I know you're being cute, Matt, but I'll bite anyway.

Life doesn't revolve around money, it revolves around resources; that's a fact of human life that exists regardless of your economic structure. Money and capitalism just happen to be an efficient (you can argue to what degree) means of distributing, allocating, and using those resources.

It takes a LOT of resources to go racing, regardless of what form those resources take. Consuming far more resources than it creates is what kills racing. There are plenty of worthwhile things that consume more resources than they create, but I can think of very few that require as much resource input as racing does, which makes it hard to justify.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 23:58

I know you're being cute, Matt, but I'll bite anyway.

Casper > Bird
10/01/2013 at 23:59

There is no such thing as a Communist or Socialist economy is my point. There is only the economy and it can be handled in different market types. For instance a Communist government can have a free market system or be economically capitalist (see modern China). Fundamentally, racing is a concept that is counter to the ideals of universal identity and a removal of individualism for the greater good. That is why when the Soviets pushed programs it was to reflect on the glory of the leaders and the mother land. Even though they were mostly internal it was used as a tool to improve themselves and find heroes for the world stage.

That is a generally apt statement to the philosophies when implementing the systems. In theory the systems perfect world would be one in which everyone would simply either be devoid of freewill or would simply automatically seek to sacrifice for the common good. That is one of the primary reasons none of these systems have ever been established in reality, because they are impossible. My description pertains to how what happens when a idealistic impossibility is attempted to be implemented in an imperfect world. It may start as Communism, but due to the impossibility of scaling, it quickly becomes something else. The same is the case with Democracy, but the path is different as it starts with the premise that everyone has freewill and the flaw enters that everyone will exercise this will rationally.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Menebrio
10/01/2013 at 23:59

I know you're being cute, Matt, but I'll bite anyway.

Casper > Bird
10/02/2013 at 00:00

Damn Kinja duplications.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 00:01

Also, I've been saying this same shit about F1 for a while now: 4 North American races is too much. Montreal + Austin + NJ + Mexico just isn't sustainable.

newtexian > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 00:07

I just wasted 5 minutes of my life on this...

Victorious Secret > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 00:09

Dorna will learn soon enough.

Laguna Seca doesn't need MotoGP, MotoGP needs Laguna Seca.

I don't pay to watch races at half assed unknown tracks. I pay to watch them at established and historic locations.

Bobby Ang > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 00:18

Complaining as James Hunt here. Where's Niki Lauda to explain the whole works?

State of Fugue > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 00:24

Sounds like free enterprise isn't exactly in play here. Indy gets a $100 million grant from the state and Austin getting $2 million. Laguna Seca, meanwhile, gets no subsidies, according to the article.

All things being equal, you might have a different result. But they're never equal.

LambChopsMcGee > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 00:24

Perhaps you're approaching the topic from the wrong direction. You should be asking: has racing failed capitalism?

Remember the phrase, "win on Sunday, sell on Monday"? Well, have you looked at sport bike sales in the last couple of years? It doesn't matter what brand wins, sport bikes aren't being sold on Monday, or any other day of the week.

I'd submit that allure of motorcycling in general, whether on racetrack or the country backroad, has been lost on the American public.

Jimmy Joe Meeker > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 00:47

I'd be a full fledged socialist if it meant great racing, at great circuits.

That's government in a nutshell. Or as Bastiat put it:

"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."

asbsvc > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 00:54

If we actually had "capitalist"

Kinja'd!!!

racing, then these bad boys would still be flying around the world's great Grand Prix circuits.

Bird > Casper
10/02/2013 at 00:54

Devoid of freewill isn't what 'ideal' communism is about. China is also definitely not a free market or economically capitalist. They're not communism either. I would say it doesn't adhere to basic principals of a capitalist free market or communist economy. It's just a corrupt system led by a facist government. They're free to change the rules or their economic principles to suit their government. It's hard to name that.

As you've said, a good truly communist example on a large scale does not exist.

Also if you want to be super technical, when most people conversationally throw around the term 'democracy' they're referring to the US type of democracy. A representative democracy. Yes you can argue that it's a misuse of terms, but it is a way in which people generally refer to it. Representative democracy (at least ours) by no means assumes that everyone will act reasonably. Hence the arguably imperfect system of checks and balances originally designed into our governments structure, as well as they ability to change the very structure itself. If our system assumed everyone to always be rational, we would make every decision with a majority vote with no means to challenge the outcome.

bobby__lee > Victorious Secret
10/02/2013 at 01:14

Like Indianapolis?

Delling-quent > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 01:36

On a positive note they are giving someone else a chance to shine.

On the flip side the best be giving someone else a change to do something more epic than the highest free fall from outter space.

Joneez > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 01:53

I've run across quite a few people that told me "I was gonna go this year but..." Well, now you can't. If even half of those people went, this might not have happened.

joelja > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 02:00

What that really means is there's another weekend were Lagunage Seca is available for some enthusiast oriented motorsport that's more accessible than MotoGP. That's not a bad thing.

evil2win > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 02:02

Capitalism has nothing to do with it. racing grew up in a time when technology was growing and everyone was excited to learn how fast we could go. watching the technology change, and speeds rise was exciting and news-worthy. Racing has grown to the limits of technology to the point where cars and bikes are limited to keep the speeds down to a reasonably safe level. We've all seen how fast cars can go, so the interest has dropped off for all except the core fans. If as you say capitalism killed racing, it did so by creating an environment where the technology got to good, that it took the edge off the sport. Racing in the golden years involved drivers risking their lives in technology pushed to the limit. Now it's drivers handling technology that's been dialed back to make it safe. It had to be done, but perhaps we've reached an end point where racing will have to happy with playing to core group of fans, and realized the golden days are gone. Or maybe I'm just rambling half asleep at my keyboard late at night.

london-rhino > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 02:12

Give Dorna enough rope and they'll hang themselves.

MotoGP hasn't got long left. When Rossi retires the viewing figures will drop anyway, but getting rid of Leguna Seca was a big mistake.

Sam > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney
10/02/2013 at 02:30

T-t-t-triple post! The Kinja hamster had a seizure, methinks.

Sam > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney
10/02/2013 at 02:30

T-t-t-triple post! The Kinja hamster had a seizure, methinks.

Speedmonkey > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 02:59

I think the main problem is that prototype racing is simply too expensive for some sports. MotoGP suffers a shortage of teams due to the cost so Dorna has to finance some teams and riders. Consequently promoters of race tracks have to pay ridiculous money to host a race. The riders at the Isle of Man TT are often amateurs on £30k bikes (although the best Superbikes cost £250k) and there's a huge field, and the spectators don't pay a penny

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Casper
10/02/2013 at 04:00

In fact, communism provided for some low-cost racing, rallying, etc. - while they destroyed even the memory of the pre-era racing heroes.

I know this from quasi-experience.

HellPhish89 > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 04:13

Holy crap, youre a journalist? Just no, NO. Go open a book. Ignorant boob.

Old-Busted-Hotness > Just wear your damn mask...
10/02/2013 at 04:29

It's easy to make a small fortune in racing: start with a large one.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 04:45

Let's take a twist at this title and talk a little bit about racing/rallying in the communist era.

Speaking of my home country (i.e. Hungary) there was a very much vibrant racing scene between the two world wars, before communism set a foot. We had helluva hill climb events, the second fastest stretch of land on Earth (following Daytona Beach), attracting international racing superstars, making some not-so super but racing stars, organizing our very own Grand Prix race, etc. etc.

And there was the very first GP winner, but that's another story, right here (it's a video I worked on a while thrown together from contemporary footage):

Okay, so after WWII all pre-war activities were considered to be... well, you know the French word I'm not bothering to type in... so then even the traces, the memories of those rich, noble boys racing around Europe in their Bugattis, Maseratis and Alfa Romeos.

The communist thing was the motorcycle, because it was something moderately wealthy people could afford too. Later on, rallies and hill climbs were the popular stuff for cars. Skodas, Ladas, etc. Just a hint at the quality of these cars: some of the fortunate people who got to the west do do some rallying came back with thrown out Michelin, GoodYear or whatever tyre, put them on their cars at home events and ran course records.

Anyway, there were some track events thrown together either on the tarmac on Budapest Airport or in the city. (can you spot Niki Lauda down here?)

Kinja'd!!!

And as communism softened up, there came Bernie Ecclestone thinking he actually could put together a Grand Prix on the Red Square in Moscow outside Lenin's grave, cars plastered in Marlboro, JPS, etc. So when that fell through, then came the Hungarian GP as Plan B.

Sorry, it's quite early in the morning for me and quite tired, trying to get my thing together still.

Fred (FreddsterExprs) > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 06:14

3 US races is one too many? But 4 spanish GPs are alright?

timgray > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 06:31

Gotta love greed. many of the tracks are now ran/owned by incredibly greedy companies that refuse to break even or make a little profit for an event. if they are not making excessive profit they whine like an 8 year old taking their ball home.

timgray > Fred (FreddsterExprs)
10/02/2013 at 06:37

I can travel from one side of spain to another in a half of a day. In North America it takes 3 days to cross. Plus in Spain, you have all those other pesky countries around it that send their fans in as well. So honestly they have a far larger fan base.

In North America , you might as well be on different continents. I cant travel each weekend for a race, but instead have to take a week off for each one. Not gonna happen.

Lastly in spain the track owners don't extort money out of the events as gratuitously as here.

Just wear your damn mask... > Old-Busted-Hotness
10/02/2013 at 06:44

That is also true.

Just wear your damn mask... > Old-Busted-Hotness
10/02/2013 at 06:45

Nibbled.

lepie > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 06:51

I can tell you this: Dorna are greedy bastards. I've been to a few motogp events, and there's one recurring theme throughout all of them: MO MONEY! There's a lot more than just the motogp, moto2 and moto3 guys. I get so pissed that they turn off the cameras for awesome things like sidecar racing. Sidecar racing is MEGA! DRIFTING MOTORCYCLES WITH DUDES/CHICKS HANGING OUT THE SIDE!!! Okay?! Yeah! Who wouldn't want to see that?

They just turn off the cameras so there isn't even local on screen coverage. No stats, no timing, nothing. They ramp up their little attractions and parades to get people to spend money on their little stands instead of watching the awesome racing that's going on.

Dorna are greedy bastards. Everyone that knows a little about motorsport knows it. Let's not even go into their licensing and copyrighting antics. Aggressive, greedy little cunts. Oh well, i'd better stop now ...

isuzufan > Birddog
10/02/2013 at 07:19

So, what's with Plumber's Crack? Is it codified in your guild's bylines that you all have to show some on every job, or something? :)

bariki > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 07:32

Capitalism didn't fail racing, technology did. By being too good and moving too fast.

It's the same reason why fighter planes cost $45,000 (ok, about $500,000 in today's dollars) in 1945 and $200,000,000 in 2013.

The more technology advances, the more complicated things get, the more they cost.

Competition, especially in war and in sports, means that as long as the rules don't say you can't do it, the guy who spends the most time and money on something wins. Which means that to keep up, everyone spends all the time and money they can afford, because they have to. Which is why fighter planes and race cars both cost hundreds of times more than what they used to.

If you applied economies of scale to building a race car, you could easily build a 70's F1 car for less than the price of a mid-range sedan.

But sadly, economies of scale don't apply even to the most mass-produced race cars (commercially available entry-level Formula cars like Formula Ford, Super FJ, Formula Enterprise) because the percentage of the population of people who can afford/want to buy a race car is far too small.

Even modified production race cars (turn-key race cars, not race-base models) like GT3 models simply take too many man-hours and too many hand-built parts to make them affordable to the general public (hence why a $100,000 Porsche becomes a $250,000 Porsche GT3).

That said, if race cars had remained as simple and as slow (by today's standards) as they were 20-30 years ago, you'd be able to build competitive race cars on a shoestring budget and still race them on the top level of racing without major corporate sponsors (like smaller F1 teams in the 60s and 70s), which means the economy is less of a factor, and sponsorship becomes a nice thing to have instead of an absolute prerequisite to professional racing.

(gasoline and tires cost more than what they used to, but compared to everything else I consider them to be fairly insignificant since they're more effected by inflation than anything else)

(driver salaries are also irrelevant because when it comes down to it, if you didn't care about winning you could literally find hundreds of qualified racing drivers willing to do it for free or for an amount so small that it wouldn't even factor into the budget of a major race team)

(safety is also irrelevant because none of the safety features really cost any significant amount compared to the total cost of building a car... and the costs of increasing course safety pale in comparison to TV broadcast rights for top racing categories)

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 08:52

What racing really needs is a new tobacco industry. Companies with big marketing budgets willing to stuff it down the throats of its competitor.

I vote for Wind & Solar energy Vs Coal & Gas.

Menebrio > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/02/2013 at 08:59

I vote for Viagra in Endurance races. Although if the race is over 4 hours long, drivers might need to see a doctor.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Sam
10/02/2013 at 09:18

Kinja hamster had a seizure, indeed.

flunchk > Casper
10/02/2013 at 09:18

You might want to distinguish between Socialism and Communism, despite what most American's believe they are not the same thing. In a pure socialist state there would be no problem with motorsport, in a pure communist state there would be (although a spec Trebant series sounds like a laugh) and in the real world neither exist or have ever existed (China is as communist as the National Socialist party of Germany were Socialist)

Also this thread is amusing given that MotoGP is at it's most popular in European countries whose governments and policy's are "Socialist" to American eyes. This is Capatalism at it's finest, DORNA raise the fee Laguna can't pay. Laguna could raise gate prices, they could raise sponsership fee's etc but that could result in less poeple attending and an even bigger loss.

This is the exact reason why Silverstone Has had to fight for its place in F1 despite being sold out every year and why Spa, despite being the greatest F1 circut has been dropped multiple times. Meanwhile F1 goes to boring ass tracks built by some Sheik to show how important he is to some other Sheik and even on race day the stands are only half full (Also looking at you here China).

Those races still turn a profit or are not required to for prestige, yet France where F1 is popular has not had a race in a long time because they cannot meet the funding required to host a race when they have to make a profit versus oil barrons running it at a loss to have another international show to go to. Still do not believe me? Then look to Soccer where the great Soccer nation of Qatar is holding the World Cup, which as much as i despise soccer the world cup is probably second only to the Olympics for worldwide popularity.

Against that sort of backdrop how can places like Laguna and Spa survive? In the short term they can't in the long term the fans turn their backs and in F1 this is starting to be reflected by the teams now leading to things like Valancia being dropped (because it was expensive, boring and horrible for fans at the track). Seriously one year they spent half the time showing shots of boats rather then the car's. Thankfully they have stopped doing this with Singapore "yes we know there is a race going on somewhere but look at this skyline, you can still see those little dots moving around when we go to another aerial view of some hotel"

SaitoHawkeye > Casper
10/02/2013 at 09:30

I agree with you that the Soviets were dictatorial and fascist, but they also held some communist beliefs and they still had athletes.

I think you're misunderstanding communism. In a communist society, you can still have markets, you can still have competition, hell you still have personal property.

What you don't have is private ownership of productive capital, and competition as the basis for allocating resources.

Living in a communist society doesn't have to mean everyone wears the same grey overalls, does the same work and thinks the same things.

runandhide > Menebrio
10/02/2013 at 09:42

Something that Gill Campbell didn't mention is the planned expansion of the GP weekends. Dorna wants to bring Moto1 and Moto2 along for the ride (no pun intended). Laguna, in its current guise, just can't support that many teams at one event. The circus of Moto1 and Moto2 make Daytona Superbike look like child's play. It does just come back to money though. Laguna can't invest the money needed to grow to that size without a guarantee on return.

I think it's time for vintage GP and vintage superbike to make a comeback. And by vintage I mean early '90s. There's got to be some 500cc two-smokes and 750cc superbikes laying around in the various factory museums. Time to dust them off and have some fun.

Thor's Hammered > Victorious Secret
10/02/2013 at 09:49

Dorna has been destroying MotoGP. It's really sad because MotoGP should be the best motorcycle racing in the world.

Thisnewformatisrubbish > Fred (FreddsterExprs)
10/02/2013 at 10:02

Spanish economy is so good, everyone is buying Liter bikes. Wait, you mean they don't? They buy scooters? Well shoot.

SaiDas > Casper
10/02/2013 at 10:16

It sounds like you've skimmed cliff notes as well. You are talking about "textbook Socialism" not what exists in Scandinavian countries for example which blends Socialism and Capitalism.

SaiDas > Casper
10/02/2013 at 10:21

Communism is not Socialism. Communism is when the government controls everything in the name of the "good of the people" but actually serves those who run it. Communism is a perversion of Socialism as the Capitalism that we have now is a perversion of what we think it is.

SaiDas > King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider
10/02/2013 at 10:28

This money dynamic you mention in F1 "government" is reflective of same in our own government. RBR, McClaren, Ferrari with all the money...and then all the rest. Money dictates how F1 operates...not racing.

Camshaft190 > Fred (FreddsterExprs)
10/02/2013 at 10:29

While I can agree Dorna has displayed way too much favoritism to ESP riders and events, the stands are packed for those even